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BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
Is it a violation to harass a Board member in your community?
Barbara
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Barbara,
If the level of activity reaches a level of harassment by any individual, it is against the law.

If you are talking about preventing this activity from reaching a crisis stage then certainly the BOD president should confront the offender and tell him firmly, that kind of action will not be tolerated and request this person meet with the board to resolve differences.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Barbara,

I doubt it's a CCR violation, if that's what you're asking. However, anyone being harassed can obtain a judgment against the harasser or file a lawsuit against them. Can you explain more fully just what is going on with this board member?
JamesC (Maryland)
Posts: 282
Posted:
Robert1
You said:
If the level of activity reaches a level of harassment by any individual, it is against the law.

If you are talking about preventing this activity from reaching a crisis stage then certainly the BOD president should confront the offender and tell him firmly, that kind of action will not be tolerated and request this person meet with the board to resolve differences.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Absent a board meeting what authority does the president of the board, or any officer have to confront another member of the organization?. Our docs specify the duties of the president, but other then sign contracts, etc. it does not mention any duties beyond chairing the board meetings. Unless of course they are paying more in association fees then others. Being volunteers, our board duties give no more authority outside the time we are conducting the meetings then, that authorized by all home owners.
I agree with you statement that it is against the law, but that is a private matter between the person being harrased, the person doing the harassing, and the legal authorities.

Jim:
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
James, I marginally disagree (only marginally).

Meaning that if the board president didn't step in, I wouldn't say that he should.

But if the board president wants to, I don't think I'd have a problem with it.

It's a rather paternal action, but if the person harassing the board member is doing it as a result of board or HOA business, then I wouldn't stand in his way.

The person will at least get the message that mistreatment of the board members is not going unnoticed and will not be tolerated.

If it's not associated with the board member's action on the board or with the HOA, then I would more likely agree that the president back off.

It would still be important for the board member being harassed to go through the proper legal channels to attempt to stop it.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Here is an excellent article on the subject of Board Member harassment including suggestions on how to deal with it. It cites Ohio law but I would imagine most states have similar laws.

http://www.ohiocondolaw.com/articles/verbal_abuse.htm

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
To all,
I really don't disagree with anything that has been posted and the article Glen referenced is helpful as a reference guideline for action and proactive measures.

I just want to point out that if an association is a licensed entity, and most are, the President likely acts as CEO, and as such, has the authority to carry the weight of the Board and act for the Board in this kind of situation. If we concede this matter raised was a Member harassing a Board Member while serving in a official capacity. This kind of action should be short lived and I believe, at least in SC, the president is within bounds if he addresses the matter personally, however he/she wants to do that, verbally or written. In SC the president serves as the CEO and can speak for the Board. Especially if there is a resolution or policy on the Books dealing with this issue (as the article pointed out). The OP, I felt, was narrow in the scope of the question, I am sure there would be exceptions if the issue was broad.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Awesome article, Glen.

Love the letter. Perfect.
JamesC (Maryland)
Posts: 282
Posted:
GlenL

Excellent reference site.(saved the article for future reference)
It's difficult to know sometimes the issues involved unless more information is provided along with the posts.
The site you provided addresses most of the harrasement issues.
I still have concerns about any officer on a board getting personally involved with other homeowners, if the issues do not involve board decisions, and even then I think the HOA's attorney should be the one to address letters, etc. to the person, or person's doing the harrassing. Another homeowner who volunteers to serve the board, and might become the current president has a life, and would probably be the next one to be harrassed.

Jim
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Board members should not give the impression that they are a spokesperson for HOA issues, or can individually solve or even discuss HOA issues with homeowners.

Stopping the discussion with a "I am not at liberty to discuss this with you. Please attend a board meeting or put your issues in writing and send it to the board."

I have seen many board members get in trouble because they gave the impression to homeowners that they had some kind of individual power.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Barbara,

A violation of what? Against your governing documents? Probably not. Against State or local laws? It depends on what the harassment is but against a Board member as part of your HOA? NO! It might be personal harassment but it certainly is not concerning the Board if it against just an individual. Is it another Board member or a member of the community? That would help us to understand what you are referring to.
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
A manager told me her communities have adopted a rule for this. I was wondering how many other communties have a rule.
Barbara
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
James,
Point well taken above how much a Board President should involve himself in personal contact with owner or guest.
I didn't post my remarks to set some sort of standard or even to imply the President (in SC, CEO) should involve himself in day to day affairs. But if anyone that has lived in an association or condo, and has not come upon circumstances that demand immediate authoritative command, then I guess I live in the wrong part of the country. If there is disagreement between owners, guests, visitors, trespassers, vendors, real estate people showing property, or anyone else, and the President is aboard and available, he should be and is the final authority. If he don't want to address the issue, then he decides where it goes for resolution.

I don'[t mean to say the president should go out and get between two waring fractions either, but, he has the authority to tell an offender to back off and shut up is he THINKS this is proper.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Barbara,

In my opinion, this type of rule would be unenforceable. Who would make the call on what is the harrasement,to what dgree is it harrasement. This is a civil matter,not something the Board has the power to judge. My Husband harrasses me sometimes and so does my Brother. You might be offended by what they do, others may not. I cannot see any Board having the power to send a cease and desist order on this. It is not something your documents give your Board an authority to make rules over. Behaviors on common grounds, yes, but not otherwise.
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
Hi Donna,
We are talking about Board members being harassed. The residents yelling at them saying for example "Why did I get a violation letter"," What are you going to do about x,y,z". I actually had a resident yell at me that the pool had no chlorine, I asked her did you call the manager and she said why. Board members should be able to live in the community without being attacked that the residents don't like the rules.
Barbara
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Barbra as Harry Truman once said: "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen."

While there is no excuse to get in someone's face and yell; the things you've said hardly rise to the level of harassment. Like it or not a Board member is the face of the Association, when we run for the Board we promise to uphold and enforce the Covenants; many homeowners take that literally and expect the Board member to know and do all.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JoyceS1 (Indiana)
Posts: 140
Posted:
Barbara and others:

I'm in a similar dilemma regarding determining when something is harassment. I currently am serving as president of the HOA. I have a homeowner who lives next door to me who writes letters to me, not the board, blaming me for her unhappiness living in an HOA. Some people should not live in one, and this is a very good example of such.

Her most recent letter bordered on the bizarre accusing me of terminating a contractors contract when in fact that had not occurred at all. Earlier letters suggested it was my fault that her unit did not sell because the assessment fee (in her mind) is too high.

The lady is 79-80 years old and could be experiencing early stages of dementia. Her son, who shares her home and expenses, may not even know she is sending the letters.

I thank my lucky stars for looking at this forum this evening. The letter in the article submitted here may be the first step toward an attempt at shutting down the letter writer.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Hi Barbara,

I wish that I could feel correct in saying that there is something formal that a Board member can say or do when they feel that there is harassment going on, but there isn't. People are just rude and bolder now. You can see it on the streets, in the stores and in your HOA.

Look at some of the articles in the papers about HOA members getting into shouting and shoving matches. Not long ago in Florida, an 83 year old guy clocked his 81 year old Board President. They were arguing over a plant.

At a Board meeting that I was an officer, we had to ask a resident who had more than his fair share of happy juice, to please quiet down. He tried to jump over a table to get at the Board (all of us) because he felt that he had the right to discuss whatever he wanted and it was certainly not HOA business. It was about someone's haircut that he did not like. To be on the Board, you have got to have thick skin and turn a deaf ear when you don't like what you are hearing.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
To all,
I hope our readers take this thread to heart. Sometimes, the devil you have, may not be as bad as the devil you get. Maybe we could find out Donna's "haircut wacko" and send him to all the places that have manageable cuckoos. Make them appreciate what they got. Really folks, the Board as a whole, in my opinion are all faced with the irate owner confrontation. I have had a round or two, but all in all they do a great job and they may have to do this on a regular bases, especially when new boards are trying to right the ship. I tip my hat to the good boards.
DonN (Michigan)
Posts: 357
Posted:
There is a delicate balance. Too often the focus assumes that the owner/member is the offender as in the excellent discussion of how to handle harassment if harassment really exists posted by GlenL on 10/24/2009 1:09 AM VERBAL ABUSE OF A BOARD MEMBER SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED .

But sometimes the owner/member is right in a question or criticism of the board, but the board doesn't want to address the issue choosing intead a claim of harassment. Further, consider that the owner/member is persistent on the issue. Consider the following quick editorial in the Detroit News:

Last Updated: October 24. 2009 1:00AM
Editorial Quick Hits: Silencing criticism doesn't pay
The Detroit News

An American Civil Liberties Union settlement with Salem Township officials may help restore free speech and vigorous dissent at public meetings in the Washtenaw County community. At a 2008 public meeting, a resident criticized then Township Supervisor Fred Roperti for lacking "openness and transparency" and was removed by law enforcement officials. When another resident objected to the ejection, he also was escorted out. This is a representative democracy, not a banana republic. Residents have a right to critique the performance of public officials to ensure their tax dollars are used wisely. We're glad the township has settled the suit, paid damages and belatedly recognized by resolution "the rights of the members of the public to criticize ... officials based on their performance without fear of any adverse consequences." It's a lesson the officials should have learned in school, not at the courthouse. It would saved the township from public shame and the taxpayers $27,500 in restitution.


Rather than claiming harassment, IMHO it is much better policy to be open, to have records open, and to answer all questions. When an owner/member persists, investigate further and communicate the findings back to the owner/member in writing. Claim harassment only when you are sure that the owner/member's complaint doesn't have merit.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonN on 10/26/2009 11:06 AM
Residents have a right to critique the performance of public officials to ensure their tax dollars are used wisely. . . . .Claim harassment only when you are sure that the owner/member's complaint doesn't have merit.

While I agree with your last sentence above, I would (still) like to point out that HOAs are not government bodies and the board members are not "public officials," which is one among many reasons why Open Meeting laws don't apply, either.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Michele,

I believe you mean the public body open meeting laws don't apply to HOAs, right? A number of states have adopted HOA open meeting laws, one of which is AZ.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 10/27/2009 7:29 AM
Michele,

I believe you mean the public body open meeting laws don't apply to HOAs, right? A number of states have adopted HOA open meeting laws, one of which is AZ.

That's exactly what I mean. HOA open meeting laws are just that. Many states have separate laws for corporations and/or associations or planned communities. They don't use laws covering public bodies or government bodies to also apply to associations. That's because board members are not government officials or public servants and associations aren't governmental or quasi-governmental bodies or agencies.

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