HOA Advocates

Who can a homeowner go to, other than an attorney, for help when the board of directors makes a decision which violates state law. In this case the board is spending money to maintain street signs which are the responsibility of the state and county.

Are your streets private? Ours are and we have to purchase all our own signs, i.e. no Parking on Street, Speed Limit, Caution Children Playing, and Load Limit signs.

I doubt there is any law against the HOA paying for the signs. Further, I doubt that you could build a solid case that it violates any of the HOA rules either. The HOA exists to improve the neighborhood and taking care of signs improves the neighborhood.

Perhaps it is the city's responsibility. But for a few bucks more you get to keep the signs in better shape.

You have every right to disagree with this sentiment of course. But your best recourse is the elections.

Virginia now has an Ombudsman for common ownership communities. If the board cannot satisfy your concerns, contact the Ombudsman.
Jeanne

You know, sometimes the association spends funds on things that are muni/county/state responsibilities (even public roads, etc).

Riddle me this... You're walking around your association. You notice that city-maintained sidewalks are cracking, and elevated more than 2" (slip/fall hazard). What do you do? You call the city...it's their responsibility, right? So, you call your roads department, and they tell you that they'll "add you to the list", and that it could be months until they get that repair made. Well, your insurance company sent someone out, and they want that fixed because it's a serious insurance hazard... What to do...what to do... A slab of sidewalk will cost ABOUT $500 (mudjacking, less than that)...so, the association shells out that money. (I'm DELIBERATELY NOT discussing the subsequent lawsuit where blame/fault would be assigned if someone slipped and sued the association and the city.)

Not the exact same as your situation, but it's just like life...you do what you need to do to maintain the asset.

Is your Board shirking their responsibilities? Is your board WASTING HOA funds? Then you have a problem. To me, it sounds like they're trying to maintain the community. You say tomato, I say tomahto... Is it strictly a black/white issue...no, as in so many HOAs, there are multiple shades of gray.

David,

Why not give the new board a chance b/4 stating they cannot be counted ". . .on any real assistance". The Ombudsman may have said "we can't help you" meaning "right now", in other words not until their operating procedures are emplemented. Change doesn't always come immediately especially when that change is coming from a gov't entity.

Montgomery Co has had a program in effect for a number of years that has been very effective. Their board is made up of individuals from all the stakeholder assn's, including several h/o's. It sounds like the state board may be modeled after the Montgomery Co. board.

Why is the first option for everyone to go nuclear? While there are the exceptions we all see on the news, I have to think that most HOA BOD's are not despots out to rule the world or their little section of it. A simple polite inquiry at a Board meeting or a polite letter will generally get the information a person requires. I emphasize the word polite because people being human usually respond in the manor to which they are addressed and become defensive when attacked especially when they don't understand why they are being attacked. Which of the following do you think would get the best response?

Dear Sirs,
It has come to my attention that the HOA is paying to replace street signs in our community. I think that this is something that should be done by the state or county government using tax dollars. Could you please explain why HOA funds were used for this?
Thank you,
HOA Member

You Bas***ds,
How dare you waste my assessment money to replace the street signs instead of letting the state or county do it? All you guys do is waste our money. Explain yourselves immediately or I'll report you to the government and see to it that you are all voted off the BOD.
Sincerely,
Your Worst Nightmare

I seriously doubt there is any violation of state law. But just like so many people like to say "it's a violation of my constitutional rights", many others like to say "it's a violation of state law." We even had an AZ State Rep say that HOA's restricting parking on the streets is a violation of state law. It isn't but she repeated that to all the legislators until one asked her to quote the specific law. I guess it's just human nature and it sounds good when you're trying to justify your position.

Mary and Donna,
I can't say I disgree with your agreements concerning disgruntled homeowners taking it out on Board. Certainly agree criticism should be constructive, don't you.
Speculate why we have good boards and boards that don't operate well.
Would you both weigh heavily the fact that two many people are unfair in their treatment of boards, therefore, that is a cause for the creation of bad boards or the lack of participation in the association?

Now you know I am asking a fair question. Just asking for your opinion.

I would start by finding out if the street signs are owned by county or not. Look at your docs. Many HOA's own the street signs and need to maintain them.

If they are in fact city/county street signs they are proubably the expensive metal ones made to last forever. So your statement of them needing to be maintained leads me to believe they are cheap HOA signs that they are not responsible for.

Robert,

I can only answer your question based upon what my feelings would be if I were a board member. If members were complaining about how the board operated I would try to understand the basis for their complaints and make improvements or let them know why their complaints are unfounded. I like to think complaining is NOT a cause for a BOD to become errant in their duties. I think being uneducated about HOAs and not understanding exactly what their responsibilities are is a major cause. On top of that there will always be a certain % of people who let the "power" of being a board member go to their head and affect their actions.

But, frankly, I think the majority of the HOA BODs do a very good job; it's only a minority that become errant and cause hardaches (and even hardships) for thier members. On top of that I think there are just as many members who can be labeled "bad members". These are people who complain about something about which they know nothing. They are convinced the board is mismanaging the funds, violating the gov docs and state laws and just making a mess of everything. Usually they have nothing to base their claims on, they "just know it's the truth!"

I agree education is a key ingredient to being a good board member. But, I also believe the members need to be educated too.

Some boards drive their members crazy and some members drive their boards crazy!!! If all those people would just go away, HOA Land would be a happy place to live.

Susan
These street signs are maintained fully by the state and county using the state and county taxes we pay. Thanks for your thoughts.

Jack,

What was the reason for them being replaced? Your version, is it the same as why the HOA replaced them.

Donna. Help me here . I don't understand your question. The signs were put up and are maintained by the county and state. They have never been replaced so I do not really understand your discussing their replacement.

Donna. In Virginia it is a violation of state law. The Virginia Property Owner's Association Act says the HOA cannot maintain the signs if they are maintained by a government agency.

Steve. These are without a doubt state and county signs. I have been in contact with both. The bottom line is that our board is responding to a few homeowners who want 60,000 dollar(fancy) signs and homeowners who think we should give $15,000 to a swim team which is related to our community in their name only. I could start my own chess club and name it after our community and get money for my chess club if this were allowed to stand.

Robert. Thanks for your road map. We "got a convoy".

Jack I couldn't find it. Which section please?

Chapter 26 - Property Owners' Association Act

55-508 Applicability
55-509 Definitions
55-509.1 Developer to pay real estate taxes attributable to the common area upon transfer to associatio...
55-509.2 Documents to be provided by declarant upon transfer of control
55-509.3 Association charges.
55-509.4 Contract disclosure statement; right of cancellation.
55-509.5 Contents of association disclosure packet; delivery of packet.
55-509.6 Fees for disclosure packet; associations managed by a common interest community manager
55-509.7 Fees for disclosure packets; associations not managed by a common interest community manager...
55-509.8 Properties subject to more than one declaration.
55-509.9 Requests by settlement agents.
55-509.10 Exceptions to disclosure requirements
55-510 Access to association records; association meetings; notice
55-510.1 Meetings of the board of directors
55-510.2 Distribution of information by members
55-511 , 55-512
55-513 Adoption and enforcement of rules
55-513.1 Flag display; necessary supporting structures; affirmative defense
55-514 Authority to levy special assessments
55-514.1 Reserves for capital components
55-514.2 Deposit of funds; fidelity bond
55-515 Compliance with declaration
55-515.1 Amendment to declaration and bylaws; consent of mortgagee
55-515.2 Validity of declaration; corrective amendments
55-516 Lien for assessments
55-516.1 Annual report by association
55-516.2 Condemnation of common area; procedure

We've had some get stolen. We've had one or two get knocked over when hit by a car or truck. We've had some get blown off by recent storms (the screws rusted and the connection broke). We've had some just rust.

Mary. I was mistaken. I have been arguing this issue for almost two years and quite frankly sometimes get confused between what the Property Owner's Act says and what our Declaration says. I said it was the Property Owner's Act when in fact it is our Declaration. Our Declaration says " The Board of Directors has the authority to assume responsibility for the upkeep of the street, traffic, and directional signage and accessories, including the poles (hereinafter "Street Signs") on the public roads that either the Virginia Department of Transportation or any other governmental authority which is responsible for the upkeep of the signs _____________has not maintained the signs and to the extent that said government authority has extended permission to the association_________." VDOT and the county maintain the signs. The problem is that we have a group of homeowners who wanted to spend $60,000 last year to replace the signs with much fancier ones. They finally dropped that plan. Plan B is to paint self-help all the sign posts white. Big mistake because white draws the eye and shows (emphasizes) (draws the eye to) all the wear and tear from yard sale sign staples and small pieces of paper not removed when yard sale---for sale-----lost cat or dog signs were ripped of the posts. The county standard is an earth tone color. I object to taking on a task that I pay taxes to have done. I also object because once we paint the signs white, they become an ongoing responsibility for our HOA.

Michelle. I corrected my mistake on the reference. Do you forgive me for trying to mislead a Missouri girl? It was not intentional.

Mary. Your thoughts mirror mine. We live in a community of 350,000 to 450,000 dollar homes. We do not need 2 million dollar signs, especially when some of our folks are either in foreclosure or late on their assessment payments. The county gave the HOA permission ONLY to paint the wooden posts white, (some are metal). I just think it is a waste of money but they can do whatever they want as long as they don't use my money (my assessment) or that of my fellow homeowners. My goal in coming to this site was to find out where I can get some suppoet in my campaign to keep them away from the HOA funds in carrying out this project.

Tough luck. You don't get to dictate what the board spends your "share" of the assessments on.

If you don't like how they allocate the money, then run for the board yourself and work from the inside to promote your own agenda.

I see nothing wrong with what the board is doing as they have apparently done their own research, already changed or mitigated their plans at least once, and have the authority to do it.

People second-guess boards all the time. Not everyone is going to be happy with every decision a board makes and people can certainly criticize and find fault with any number of seemingly innocuous projects.

But apparently it's not illegal and is within the venue of your documents for them to do what they plan to do.

Mary. I appreciate your insight. There are several of you on this site who have given me great insight into the proper way to handle this situation. I would not withhold my assessment payments as a form of protest. Never entered my mind. Another interesting thing I came across on this site is the fact that at least one person posted comments which lead me to believe that person is really into the power thing of being on a board of directors. When I was on the board in our community, and I will be again soon, I was nothing more than a servant of our homeowners and I thought about bthat in nevery decision I made. Thanks again.

Thank you Michelle.