Fiduciary Duties

Can the President of our BOD allow a rule change that does not effect her? They are telling homeowners they will not issue letters approving washer and dryers anymore and anyone with our the city permit or letter from the BOD has to remove them. Reasons: 1. They claim the pipes can not support the water 2. The association does not want to pay for the excess water usage.

However, her, her best friend and one other person who got approval from the board and permits get to keep their washers and dryers and if there is an issue resulting in damage, the HOA has to pay.

I know nothing about California laws and statutes, and, frankly, some are a little weird to me (that ALL pickup trucks are classified "commercial," for one), but a few observations:

1) It's likely their "reasons" are valid, given what little I do know about CA and it's issues with Water and energy usage, etc.

2) It's also likely that there are more than just THREE people (the Prez and 2 of her friends) who are "allowed" washers and dryers in the development.

3) There's probably more history about the rule than has been given to you or that you've been able to find.

Hope you're able to work it out.

NancyL:

What is her president "doing"?

I'm still not clear that we know.

What is it exactly that was done?

There might well be something going on that is contrary to the authorities you listed, but we only have a very small and one-sided version, and not very well fleshed out, at that.

In other words, not enough info the form an opinion yet, maybe. . .

Kim mentioned in another thread that this was a "conversion". I assume that means an apartment building that was "converted" to a condo. I was in one of those once (before the conversion), and the plumbing in that building would not have been able to handle everyone having their own washer (a community coin-op laundry room was available).

However, who decreed that the plumbing could only handle 3 washers? How many units are in the building? Frankly, I would think that if the plumbing is that inadequate, then there shouldn't be ANY washers, including the president's.

Dwight? Do we KNOW that only THREE washers and dryers are approved? ONLY 3? Or are do AT LEAST 3 of them belong to the pres and 2 of her friends?

How many units are there?

How many other residents have washers and dryers?

How long ago was the rule actually made and/or approved?

Who was president when it was?

What about putting in a combo unit in your kitchen? (these are great and don't use as much energy/water as big ones).

Anyway, I'm just still not clear on the timeline or the details.

Yes, Nancy, they are "adopted" by the board, which consists of the directors and officers, and they do that "adoption" by "voting" for or against the rule, at some point.

So if the board president is voting on a rule change, unless it would benefit her financially, I don't see anything wrong with her either supporting or voting it.

Maybe, KimM8 will give us more of the facts.

Our HOA is very small (less than 10). We usually agree on issues by a consensus of the board.

We have had a vote of the board on one occasion. It was a unanimous decision. We don't have any controversial issues. Being as small as we are, we all need to get along. If you alienate your neighbors in a small HOA, they won't watch your home or water your plants when you go on vacation.

Wow, so there are a lot of responses, I will do my best to answer them. First let me clarify all the details, sorry if this will be long.

We closed escrow in Jan. 05, we were the 2nd family to move in and construction lasted for another year. At the time we moved in the developer, who was the majority shareholder of the complex, was the BOD. The developer and seller were owned by the same principals. A single real estate team was on site during the entire sale of the 161 unit complex, they representing the seller as well as the developer verbally told several homeowners that we could install washers and dryer. The unit we picked was because the layout would allow such. A week after moving in we had a licenses plumber come out and do the work, under the approval of the building supervisor for the project. He inspected the plumbing, even sent over one of his guys to drywall the space for us (for free) we used one of his electricians after hours. The building supervisor on the project even gave other homeowners the business card for the plumber we used.

Breaking it down, there are 15 buildings and only two bedroom 2 bath layouts can have washers and dryer because of the floor plan. So I would guess only 20 people can actually have them. We are one of those lucky 20 people that have the right layout.

Now we are being told that since the board did not approve our washer and dryer to be installed we may not keep it. And will be fined for not removing it. I had the city come out two weeks ago and they said they would give us the needed permit. The city building supervisor acknowledged that we have the layout which allows washers and dryers and that all of our work was done to spec. Now just two weeks later the same guy said his superiors received a letter from our current HOA company that all permits need approval from them first and they are not giving out that approval. So the city will not give us a permit. However, he did say, he felt it was not fair and to just leave everything as is.

Our President moved in about a year after us and got approval from the then BOD and the permit from the city.

These are the documents I have: A letter the current president sent the developer and real estates lawyers in which she says: Homeowners were told by the developer and real estate company they could put in washer and dryers and that this is an “orally binding agreement”. I have a letter from the real estates lawyer which acknowledges this fact.

Therefore, we were given verbal approval and this is acknowledged by the current pres. As orally binding. I am also waiting for a letter the city sent to the real estate company authorizing washer and dryers to be installed.

Our current HOA manager said, that I need to bring something in writing from the developer company who was our BOD at the time showing that they gave us approval, but they never put it in writing, however since the current Pres. States in a formal letter that it’s “orally binding” I think that should be enough for him. However, he still told me that when I bring this in to them in writing, they, the current BOD will need to make a decision on it.

Okay, now as to the rule. I don’t know if it’s a rule. My HOA manager is supposed to be getting back to me on this. He told me it was a new rule and we had 30 days to comment, then when I asked when homeowners would be notified of this he said, well, it already a rule we are just choosing to now enforce it. So I am not clear on this.

I was not given the CC&R’s before I closed escrow and did not get one until I requiested one months later (when I first heard about this document). I do have an e-mail from the current Vice Pres. in response to a homeowner who violated a rule and wrote to them he did not know about this rule because he did not have our CC&R’s, she replies that she too did not get her when she moved in. Just like me.

Roger, that is what I told the HOA manager, that they need to be fair and reasonable and followed by all homeowners, it says so it our rule book and he said, the descision was made and would discuss it further.

Michele, there are about 40 homeowners who have washer and dryer, but only three with approval.

Nancy, yes I read them, but how do I get my HOA manager to agree with them and uphold them?

Also, yes, the bigger issue here is fixing the pipes which they claim are faulty.

Susan,

All I have is a newsletter that the Pres puts on everyones doors. I requested something formal and was told nothing was going to be sent, then I was told something would be sent but they don’t know when. I think they themselves are trying to figure it out.

This is what the newsletter said:
"Please be aware that washers and dryers in units are not allowed without written approval of the Board of Directors and the City of Lemon Grove.
Permission has been granted to very few units for installation of washers and dryers. In fact the Board of Directors will no longer be granting permission for installation.
Washers and dryers pose a real problem when not installed properly. In some instances they pose a problem even when they are installed according to code.
Dryers that are not vented properly can lead to the accumulation of mold. While washers if not properly connected to a drainage system can damage drains and pipes.
Lastly, because the complex was not designed to house washers, the boiler system is not adequate to handle the demand for hot water. In addition all owners end up paying the cost for the water used.
If you currently have a washer and dryer in your unit that has not been approved, it should be removed. Please keep in mind that any damage done to a neighboring unit as a result of their usage shall be the responsibility of the owner of the washer and dryer."

This is the e-mail I got from the HOA management company that the Pres said to them:
“Every homeowner must go through the city if lemon grove for approval and the board is no longer letting washers & dryers in the complex. IF a homeowner already was approved prior & has the proper paperwork then we will let them keep them.”

So I was approved verbally by the developer run BOD, but I don’t think they will honor that.

Glen, I was not ignoring you. No, they were not built with washer and dryer hookups. But we were allowed to put in the plumbing and the city already said our installation is done properly for the permit. We did not know we needed a permit from the city, until recently. Obviously, since only three people for the permits, not many people did. And no our CC&R’s does not state that. Also, we got our CC&R’s months after moving in as did everyone else who moved in during Phase I and Phase II. Which I have in writing.

If anyone has any more questions please let me know. Thank you.

Hi Michele,

I know it's not relevant, but being a first time homeowner, I was not aware of the CC&R document. I am sure it was in my paperwork somewhere that I was to get one, with out really know what it was.

Sorry I did not give enough information at the begining!! It was a doozie and I just got the majority of info yesterday.

As for the # of units. I was told this by the HOA manager. He said there are "about" 40 homeowners who have washer and dryers and only 3-4 who have the approval. It tough becuase even though we have 161 units I would say no more then 10 people attend the meetings. Also this new HOA company just started a year ago. People slowly stoped going to the meetings because nothing we being done and people were just plain frustrated. The building supervisor for the city said I could come in and get copies of the permit info for the other homeowners, the three.

I still have a lot more work to do thought and you are all being very helpful. Thanks!!!!

You can try contacting the developer and see if they will give you a letter stating that they approved the changes when they were in charge. This is why you should always get any thing like this in writing. How do you prove years later what someone told you?

Please understand I'm not trying to kick you while you're down but the whole thing could have probably have been avoided if you had simply gotten the required permit when it was installed. I would make an application citing the oral contract and see what happens. If they turn it down then you can either:
A. Remove the washer & dryer.
B. Keep using them and let them try to prove you have them.
C. File suit against the HOA
D. Work to change the CC&R's to either allow them or prohibit them for everyone.

P.S. Their excuse for disallowing them because it would overtax the boiler system is Bravo Sierra (BS). Since I'm assuming there is one source for hot water do they allow dishwashers? Ask them what would happen if the people being made to get rid of the washers "forgot" and left the hot water running in their showers every day while they were at work?

So I got the arch form, which was created in January of this year, when they took over and it says:

"I agree I will do no work that will change the existing drainage patterns." Can I use this against the descision to let the president keep her washer and dryer...?

Hi Glen, you will love his most recent response:

You are asking me to defend or justify things that took place before I began working with the property. I don’t have the time or willingness to do that. It would be a huge waste of my time as I can’t change the past. Every Board acts on the information they have available to them at the time. Had the Board known that the Developer did not transfer or that the previous management company had not requested a permit for the pool I have no doubt they would have acted accordingly.

It is my understanding that your husband use to be President of the Board. If this is true then he can attest to the fact that each Board acts based on the information they have at that time. We can spend hours., days or even years rehashing the past decisions or lack of. I intend to move forward and deal with current matters. Finger pointing does nothing to move us forward.

What do I do now? My HOA manager (manager in charge from HOA management company) in his last e-mail said he was not willing nor did he have the time to dicuss certain issues with me. Who do I esclate my questions to and are they required to respond to me? Thanks!

The problem with that is the president is the one "breaking" the rule. She is the one allowed the exception that the manager will not respond to me about. They are one team working against everyone else.

There are two other women on the board but I feel the presidents infulence is far reaching. One of them is a major push over (at the last meeting the pres. stuck her had in her face cut her off while she was talking and told her to stop talking, repeatly until she did and this girl apologized to the pres).

I did leave a message for the managements office manager, but I don't think they really handle disputes.