Vacant position on the BOD

There's is a vacant position on my HOA BOD. At the open meeting last June my next door neighbor asked about the vanct postion. The BOD said that all that was needed for someone to fill the postion would be an email to the Property Manager. My neighbor did not apply for the position, so I did. At first I was told the current board members would like to have their monthly meeting for August and the I will be in on the next meeting in September. Now I am beeing told that they are not sure they are going to bring on a new board member since elections are in December. I have requested the minutes for all the BOD meetings since January, but was told that the personal info needs to be removed before I can receive them. What kind of personal info would be included in the minutes?

Urella,

IMO, confidential info would be discussed in a closed (executive) session of the board, unless the member who is being discussed requests the discussion to be in an open meeting. Therefore, there really shouldn't be any "personal" info in the minutes of the meeting. The minutes of an open session of the board should always be available to any members requesting them (which is why confidential info is not discussed).

Regarding the open position, for whatever reason the board apparently has chosen to wait until the next annual meeting in Dec. to fill it. This makes a lot of sense if the next annual meeting isn't too far away. In this case, it's 6 months so you would think they would want to fill the seat. However, if you have a prop. manager doing most of the work, an empty seat on the board may not be such a big deal.

If I were you, I would use this time to do a little campaigning for the seat. Also use the time to bone up on the CCRs and state laws (if any). Let all your friends and neighbors know you are interested in running for the board and let it be known you're very familiar with all the rules and laws, then ask them to tell their friends and neighbors, etc., etc.

Urella,
Can only repeat what has been said. I suspect there is a little something else going on here when they tell you they can't let you read the minutes of the Board Meeting. The minutes of the Board meeting should have been posted to all members ASAP after meeting. Don't you normally get copies of minutes? If you have never seen a copy I know there is something strange. You and your beighbor both showed interest at dufferebt time and neither have seeb a minutes report. That catches my attention.

I wanted to sit in on a board meeting to see if this is something I wanted to to do, and also are able to do. I also wanted to see the format of the meeting since, this is not something I am familiar with.

Denise,
I have to humbly disagree here Denise. First there is somethiung going on if a member can not review a Board Neeting minutes. It may not be "fishy" and that was never suggested. As far as Executive sessions and that information, to my knowledge, nothing in executive session is ever made a part of the minutes, in fact, no minutes are taken in executive sessions. Have you ever seen minutes of executive sessions. After an ES is held the Board meeting is usually reconvened and if any action or vote was proposed in ES, it is entered into the board meeting minutes. That is not to say that some records are not kept about ES, it goes without saying that would have to be, but those records are not minutes of the session or minutes of the Board, unless some action is proposed in ES. That vote must be made and recorded by name and made a part of Board minutes. IMHO of the Parilmentary Procedures.

Robert,

Sorry I must disagree. Minutes should be taken in executive session. These minutes should be made a part of the assn's official records but they are not subject to review by the members of the assn because they contain confidential information. In a perfect world, the board will take no action in an executive session, but instead will do so in the open meeting. However, boards don't always do as they should and our laws are not always explicit enough to require certain things to be done a certain way. The AZ open meeting law only addresses executive sessions by saying: "Any portion of a meeting may be closed only if that closed portion of the meeting is limited to consideration of one or more of the following;" and goes on to outline the 4 reasons to hold a closed meeting. Now, you will note the law does say "consideration"; but I'm sure that's lost on many boards and they do take action in a closed session.

Mary,
Another little tidbit. If you take minuetes at a ES and the judge looks at them and decides the board has taken an action or made a decision about this case and not announced it as required in the re-convenued Board meeting.....and voted on it.......you can see the danger here.

I agree with Mary.

Motions and resulting votes need to be documented. If an action/directive comes out of an ES, there needs to be back-up record for it.

Robert,

I agree, and in the best of worlds that's the way it would be handled. However, in HOA land, things are not always done the way they should be done. I doubt many bylaws or even state laws address how clossed session business is to be conducted. The AZ open meeting law states there are several topics which can be "considered" in a closed meeting. "Considered" means to me no action can be taken but I'm sure that's not how most boards regard it. Unless it's expressly spelled out that no vote can be taken in a closed session the board will continue to have the discussion and take the vote. It's the natural way to conduct business. Now the public body open meeting law is more explicit -- "Any final action on an item discussed in an executive session must be taken during a public meeting." This is a direct quote from a pamplet from the Sec. of State explaining the public body open meeting law.

Urella,

I think I can tell you why your BOD decided to leave the vacant position unfilled. But I doubt that the reason will appear in the minutes anywhere. Certainly not if the BOD has any sense.

The reason for the change is because you were the only volunteer. And in their eyes you are stirring up trouble because of their stance on decks. I am afraid that you will have to wait until the next annual meeting and run for the board. For that matter, you may want to run on a platform of fairness.

Here is the way I see it. A deck does make one unit more valuable then another as long as some have them and others don't. But that only makes some sense. The owners who have added a deck paid to have the deck added. If I upgrade my house, then it is reasonable that my house would then have more value. In fact, there is an entire industry in helping owners figure out what portion of their expenditure can be recouped in added value.

What is fair is to have some standards regarding decks. The size and construction should be designated. You should specify minimum materials. You may also want to make all deck units look either the same or consistent.

If you run opposed and are elected then it is reasonable to believe that this is the thinking of the others in the association. Remember, you don't have to have complete agreement from everyone. You have to have a majority agreement.

I respectfully disagree. While a person should bring more then just their single issue beef, they should not avoid office for lack of "expertise."

The job entails a lot, and is not always easy. And you sometimes have to put aside your personal preference for the good of the neighborhood. But if you are willing to keep the neighborhood first, have the time, have the inclination, then perhaps you should run. I suspect that many a BOD member got involved because of a couple "beefs" with the existing BOD.

Mary and Kirk,
I have to agree with you all. It also sems clear that up to now our Boards, and the way they are elected, haven't seem to have provided the Magic Elixer.
I find this really fancinating. On a different level I observed this elusive "magic" when stationed aboard ships. What does one person (Captain of the Ship)have that can turn a low morale unhappy ship into just the opposite?

I suspect this HOA business may be more complicated if one looks for the individual components and more chnce is involved because of pre-selection restrictions.

On the other hand, what is your observation and conclusions about how important having a good knowledge of your documents, history, and owner participation contribute to a happy and effecient ship. Like it or not, I have not seen any requirements that qualify you to be a board candidate, except owner, and in my mind that is how it should be.

Also, HOA's are morphing into different animals as we speak, due mostly to sheer numbers of people living in associations, and with State, county and Federal agencies realizing there is a vast power and capability that is hiding behind these associations. SC County is working on a Sustainibility Comprenesive Plan that will reach out and go behind and through some of the Association covenants and allow local government to have much more influence behind those closed gates. Association covenants keep, to some degree, members immune from some local government goals and asperations. Especially in the enviromentl mandates that are being accepted daily. We are all part of the planet and, as an example, if the county decrees all soda bottles must be recycled as directed, the associations will not be able to just ignore the requirements.

Urella,

I agree that many ". . .board members start off without any experience whatsoever." The problems arise when those inexperienced board members make no effort to become informed. With the same leadership for the past 10 years, you may be correct in saying it's time for "fresh ideas and perspectives". If you are willing to spend time learning all you can about running an HOA (study your gov. docs, research state law, etc.), that acquired knowledge together with your "fresh ideas and perspectives" might be just what your "stale" HOA board needs.

Good luck to you in your endeavors.

Urella,

I encourage you to run for the board. Just be aware that I now believe now more then ever that what I said was how the board views you. And having said that if I were you, I would be all the more likely to run for the board.

I agree that you need not bring any particular experience to bring tot he table. If you did, our HOA would be in serious trouble. In our case, there were 6 candidates for 5 positions. But one person was absent from the meeting. And along obvious lines the 5 present were elected.

Start reading and good luck.

UrellaH,
I think you have good confidence from Mary and Kirk and they are giving you much to be considered. I will add my two cents and suggest that you spend a little time trying to get your mind around what mandate you want to give yourselve. Certainly the Shining Knight to the rescue comes to mind and he frees all the little people from a life of cruelty and dispair. But consider this; "It's not your money and I am not suggest anything illegal. It's not your money so don't consider how you would use it if it were your money." Don't put the owners first. Your loyalty and soul belongs to the association. No, the association is not the people, it is the property. However small. You were elected to serve the property by the people. You can represent all the property but you can never represent all the people (never, and that should come as no surprize) Be fair, and know your job better than those you have to account to. So each question you have to ponder over, ask your self; what is good for the association/ Now that is a ton of stuff and some may disagree, and that's ok, this is a site of opinions.
Right know, hit the Books, and gather a few people around you that will support you and select the best. That is not too difficult, because if they help you it means they won't have to do the job themselves. You will find good people as you go along, value them and their opinion and don't be afraid to learn from them.

UrellaH,
Forgive me this is my picking day, I see, so I will have to watch that today, but: Your last sentence, cross out "me". There will be lots of times you may have to decide and it may not be the best for, "You."

A way for this to happen would be to see if you can be an assistant secretary or treasurer. I opened up an asst. secretary for exactly what you are saying. this position gives a person the chance to see if the board is where they want to be in the future. We just had this person move up to treasurer. and I put another association member into this position. She will take notes and learn about board meetings.

Is there a point in digging up 10 year old posts?

ANY, minutes of ANY, meeting a homeowner can see. Including contracts with vendors. As far as putting others name and personal info, it should not be in the minutes.We have had a vacant position on our board since Sept.This is election month and still they are saying 3 new members are to be voted in. We really need 4...

DIE, thread, DIE