Portable basketball goals

Started by BryanD2 • 51 replies • 9410 views

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BryanD2 (Georgia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Our Covenants read as follows:

7.22 Artificial Vegetation, Gardens, Play Equipment, Exterior Sculpture, Water Features, and Similar Items.

No artificial vegetation shall be permitted on the exterior of any property. No vegetable garden, hammock, statuary, play equipment (including, without limitation, basketball goals), exterior sculpture, fountains, flags or water feature may be erected on any lot, without the prior written approval in accordance with the provisions of Article 6 hereof and/or compliance with written guidelines established under Article 6 hereof, as applicable.

Our board is currently telling residents that the only way they can have a portable goal is if it is put out of site every night and when not in use. They are sending out letters to residents with goals that are left out threatening fines. The way I understand the statement is that a resident must submit a request to the Board to have a basketball goal. If approved, there is nothing in the covenants that states anything about the storing of the goal, so the Board should not be sending out violations. The only violations should go to residents who did not get approval for the goal.

Does the Board have the authority to NOT approve a goal just because they don't personally care for them, or does the fact that the request was submitted in accordance with the Covenants automatically mean it should be approved?

Has anyone else dealt with this issue?

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BryanD2 on 05/14/2008 7:23 AM
Our Covenants read as follows:

7.22 Artificial Vegetation, Gardens, Play Equipment, Exterior Sculpture, Water Features, and Similar Items.

No artificial vegetation shall be permitted on the exterior of any property. No vegetable garden, hammock, statuary, play equipment (including, without limitation, basketball goals), exterior sculpture, fountains, flags or water feature may be erected on any lot, without the prior written approval in accordance with the provisions of Article 6 hereof and/or compliance with written guidelines established under Article 6 hereof, as applicable.

I would say you are close to the money with your thoughts. If I got written approval to erect a goal, even a portable one, and nowhere in Article 6 (or in the written approval from the board) was i told the approval was contingent upon removal every night, the board could kiss my basketballs. They cannot crank in new rules as they feel like it. the time for the board to put the rule in place about removing every night is when they approve/disprove the request.

If a general communication has been done that there are "NEW RULES", duly enacted by the board upon the membership through the proper procedures for your HOA, then yes, the older/approved goals could then be included in the nightly roundup. But that requires that the board properly enact the rules, per their by-laws, proper quorum/voting/notification, etc..

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

IMO they would need to amend their CC&R's to put that restriction in there...Either it is approved and is out or it isn't approved and isn't out.

CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826

Posted:

BryanD2,

Your covenants sound very similar to mine. Although, upon inspections (monthly) if observed from the front of the house they are in violation of the governing documents. According to our covenants. Which I have attached.

Our board has made it very clear that the BB goals, MUST be portable and MUST be out of sight from the road when NOT in use (as stated in our covenants), certainly reasonable to those who wish to NOT play basketball or shoot a few hoops!

I too would agree with your interpretations until the covenant clearly states otherwise.

Unfortunately it’s been an ongoing battle for several years but with determination and perseverance our community has very few BB goals visible from the street, to this day.

Best of luck to you.
Chuck W.

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Charles E. Wafer Jr.

BryanD2 (Georgia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CharlesW1 on 05/14/2008 7:52 AM
BryanD2,

Your covenants sound very similar to mine. Although, upon inspections (monthly) if observed from the front of the house they are in violation of the governing documents. According to our covenants. Which I have attached.

Our board has made it very clear that the BB goals, MUST be portable and MUST be out of sight from the road when NOT in use (as stated in our covenants), certainly reasonable to those who wish to NOT play basketball or shoot a few hoops!

I too would agree with your interpretations until the covenant clearly states otherwise.

Unfortunately it’s been an ongoing battle for several years but with determination and perseverance our community has very few BB goals visible from the street, to this day.

Best of luck to you.
Chuck W.

Chuck,

Thanks for the feedback. One question to you. Is the "MUST be portable and MUST be out of sight from the road when NOT in use" listed in your amendments or Miscellaneous section of your Bylaws?

The biggest issue we have is the fact that we have very unlevel terrain (sloping ground on sides of houses going to basements), and portable goals do not roll on grass when the base is full of water. Since this part of Georgia is still under water restrictions, it's not like we can fill them up and empty them each time they are used.

Thanks again.

Bryan

CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826

Posted:

BryanD2

I’m sure it isn’t easy “dragging” the portable BB goal to the rear of the house, but certainly CAN be done. I would suggest either they drag the portable BB goal to the back. They could always use sand bags, which would surly, hold the BB goal from tipping over, when is/is not in use. Otherwise if not secured properly then the BB goal should be lying on its side, regardless of land formations.

Our CC&R’s states NO permanent BB goals allowed on any lot, thus implying that portable BB goals are permitted. The covenant I provided earlier specifies the criteria in order to have a BB goal.

As long as the BB goal is portable and isn’t visible from the street we consider them to be in compliance.

It sounds as though your board needs to amend the convents to permit such BB restrictions immediately.

Been there, done that!

Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

KarenS11 (Florida)
Posts: 148

Posted:

This is an issue I have been wondering about, as well. We would have to put our goal in the garage each day. Do they fold away easily?

I've been so frustrated by the lack of teeth shown by our board that I am considering just leaving the board and putting up a permanent goal. People can build whole structures and they won't even vote to spend the money on a legal consult. My son will be grown by the time they get to the BB goal.

We have nofining provisions.

MikeS1
Posts: 668

Posted:

Is this a Townhome or single family community?

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Karen,
We had some heated arguements from owners regarding the ugliness of the goals lining the streets. We passed a rule that they had to be laid own after use with some bushes or vegetation hiding at least the base area closest to the street. Most owners complied, several just sold theirs to get rid of them.

What so many people forget is that the kids do not make up the majority of association members. There are and always will be many owners who don't have kids and don't like the looks of a beautiful street, lined with hoops not being used. Does anyone ever ask them if they like a hoop right next to their homes with the sound of balls hitting the backboards for hours on end?

My point is that sometimes we should just rethink what we are doing to the physical look of our neighborhoods. We shut the doors and forget that there is another world other than our own, outside of our own domain.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Bryan,

Just because the covenants do not explicitly address the storage of basketball goals does not mean the board cannot adopt a requirement that they be stored out of view when not in use. The Article you posted mentions
". . .prior written approval" and ". . .compliance with written guidelines.", which leads me to believe the board can adopt a rule regarding the basketball goals. This rule should be sent to all the members of the assn.

Do you know for a fact that those individuals recieving violation notices obtained approval? Do you know for a fact the approval letter did not inform them of the storage requirement?

I would certainly hope the board did not make this rule just because they don't like basketball goals. I would like to think they had the aesthetics of the community in mind, although I personally don't believe a basketball hoop here and there would contribute to a reduction in property value! FYI, I have heard that this requirement is very common in HOAs that allow portable basketball goals.

KarenS11 (Florida)
Posts: 148

Posted:

Donna-

I am in a townhome and agree that a BB hoop is an eyesore. My point was that if the majority of the board is going to be selective in enforcement of our docs, then I could step off the board and be selective of what I enforce on my own property.

I am the only resident ever to get a notice (three, actually) for my campaign sign. By coincidence, I was the only one with a sign for a democratic candidate. None of the other homeowners were issued notices of violation.

Out of four board members, I was the only one cleaning up after my dog. And my son has been volunteering to empty to dog doo can in our park each week for a year now.

I know my next door neighbor wouldn't mind the hoop and I am getting fed up with the other board members. We just got rid of one and have two new members, so I will see how it goes, but if I leave, we're getting a BB hoop!

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

Whew, glad we don't have to drag our portable unit to the back after each use!

BryanD2 (Georgia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

I appreciate everyone's responses. With the past experiences that I have had with the Board, I don't believe that there are any documented amendments or modifications that allow the Board to enforce the "hidden from view when not in use" violation.

In regards to any of the home owners submitting a request to have their goal, I am not aware of any such request. However, if a resident were to submit a request, and it was approved with the condition that the goal be removed from view when not in use, I don't see how a violation could be enforced if this "condition" doesn't actually exist in the Covenants. I didn't think that an HOA Board was empowered to make rules or conditions at their discretion without them being adopted in to the covenants. If they are, then how are residents expected to know what all of the rules actually are?

I'm certainly not trying to start any debate here, and everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, but I find it interesting that so many people are against portable goals. I hear people say that they lower property values, but they can never provide proof of this. As a matter of fact, I have spoken with several realtors that deal in medium to high quality neighborhoods that do allow goals, and they have all stated that they have never lost a sale, or had a prospective buyer refuse to buy in a neighborhood because there were BB goals. I do agree that there should be restrictions on them such as not using them at night, upkeep (no missing nets or rusted poles), and possibly even having them stored out of sight during winter months.

As I stated before, portable goals that are full of sand or water do not roll over grass very well on a flat surface, much less an angled surface. If you store two vehicles in your garage, then that is not option, as well as the fact that most portable goals will not stand up in a standard height garage.

Again, I appreciate everyones feedback and it is certainly all good "food for thought"...If anyone else has anything to contribute, please feel free.

Thanks.

Bryan

CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DJ1 on 05/14/2008 11:31 AM
Whew, glad we don't have to drag our portable unit to the back after each use!

DJ1,

Whew, thank God I DON’T LIVE NEXT TOO YOU!

Obviously, living outside of an association “works” well for you and your family. Congratulation!

Chuck W

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

We restrict them NOT necessarily because there is a direct connection to their mere presence "lowering home values" but because if you have an entire street full of portable goals, all being used at the end of the driveway or in the street, it certainly DOES create a huge issue for homeowners trying to navigate up and down the street.

One goal on a street? Not so much a problem. But if you let one goal out in the street, how can you say the second or third or 10th goal can't be there? And believe me, 10 goals in the street of a subdivision certainly would diminish a homeowner's ability to sell his home on that street.

To prevent the possibility of a homeowner's street becoming an obstacle course, we restrict portable basketball goals from being placed forward of the sidewalk or in the street AT ALL TIMES. That means even when they are being used.

If you have a portable basketball goal, you can ONLY use it if it is in your driveway on the home side of the sidewalk. What if your driveway slopes? Too bad. If you knew you wanted to play basketball, then you should have bought a home that would accommodate it.. Place a concrete pad in your backyard and go for it.

We also have another restriction that the arch committee must approve the location even then. Why? So some family isn't bombarded by continuously errant balls simply because the homeowner placed the goal with the back facing his neighbor's front yard and/or door. If the homeowner isn't willing to have his own kids chase their own balls in their own front yard, and trample their own vegetation and landscaping, why should the neighbor have to put up with it?

So, tell me again that basketball goals don't impact a sale? I might not say anything to my realtor, but if I look at a house that I have to dodge basketball goals to get down the street, or that has a neighbor's backboard facing my yard. . . not thanks, I'll pass. . . next house please. . .

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Michelle,
Thanks. As I posted, there are many of us past having the kids at home, who really don't want to hear the bump, bump of the ball being bounced against the hard surfaces and the backboards. Nothing to do with property value but having just sold my Florida house, I can tell you, the couple who bought mine, did several drive thrus of the neighborhoods and liked the quiet, peacefulness of our tree lined street. It was a statement that THEY made. It is too bad that the kids don't have more areas where they can go and shoot hoops because all of these developers do not provide an extra lot for them to have a play area but would rather squeeze out one more lot to develope.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Bryan,

You said: "In regards to any of the home owners submitting a request to have their goal, I am not aware of any such request. However, if a resident were to submit a request, and it was approved with the condition that the goal be removed from view when not in use, I don't see how a violation could be enforced if this "condition" doesn't actually exist in the Covenants. I didn't think that an HOA Board was empowered to make rules or conditions at their discretion without them being adopted in to the covenants. If they are, then how are residents expected to know what all of the rules actually are?"

I suggest you thoroughly research your gov docs, most likely the CCRs. In most there is an article entitled "Rules" which empowers the board to adopt additional rules. These rules are generally adopted by the board without a vote of the members required. The board should inform the members, in writing, of these rules. If your board has this authority and they did, in fact, adopt a rule pertaining to portable basketball goals, then that rule is enforceable the same as a rule contained in the CCRs. I've always been of the opinion that it's these "board adopted rules" that cause more problems than the rules actually written into the CCRs. And, it's always been my opinion that these rules should be voted on by the members since they can be enforced the same as any CCR restriction.

BillG6 (Florida)
Posts: 41

Posted:

Sounds like "selective" Document violation enforcement to me.....

JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882

Posted:

"...and/or compliance with written guidelines established under Article 6 hereof, as applicable." If they have a rule, or even a simple written, guideline, it's enforcable - it doesn't have to be in the CC&R's or Bylaws, Article 6 has enabled it.

Joe

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DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CharlesW1 on 05/15/2008 4:55 AM

Posted By DJ1 on 05/14/2008 11:31 AM
Whew, glad we don't have to drag our portable unit to the back after each use!

DJ1,

Whew, thank God I DON’T LIVE NEXT TOO YOU!

Obviously, living outside of an association “works” well for you and your family. Congratulation!

Chuck W

Charles, just imagine how the neighbour 2 doors down feels cause they are IN the HOA, but can't have the BB goal we have!

BryanD2 (Georgia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

I guess I find it interesting that so many people think that the HOA should be the enforcer for things that don't having anything to do with it. For example, if my neighbor has a bb goal and his basketball ends up in my flower bed and damages my flowers, then I am going to take it up with my neighbor, not expect the HOA to handle it. It's no different than if my neighbor is letting his dog poop in my yard. Yes, the covenants say that you are supposed to pick up after your dog, but am I going to expect the HOA to enforce something like that? No, I am going to go to my neighbor and handle it amongst neighbors. But, if I use the same argument for dogs that people are using against the bb goals, then no one in the neighborhood should be allowed to have pets that require relieving themselves outside.

I have had first hand experience dealing with a neighbor that decided to use his goal at 11pm-2am in the morning. I tried dealing with the homeowner regarding the issue, but ended up having to get the local police involved to resolve the issue. But, at no point did I feel like all of the other homeowners in the neighborhood should be punished due to the actions of one disrespectful resident.

Regarding the appearance issue, I think it is important to keep in mind that each person's opinion is strictly that. OPINION... As I stated in my earlier post, I do believe the HOA should enforce things such as nets that are missing, rusted poles, etc., just like they do for the house itself.

Being a father of two young children and having recently relocated, my wife and I found it appealing to see bb goals in neighborhoods that we viewed. We looked at it as a sign that there were kids living there, as well as an indication that parents were willing to provide outdoor activities for their kids rather than having them roam the streets and getting in to trouble. We have a large # of homes in our neighborhood that have children, and the only ammenities we have are a playground for small children and a pool. That's it.

In my opinion, the stance of "must be stored out of site when not in use" is a ploy used by HOA's to try and force homeowners to not purchase these devices. I would challenge anyone to fill a portable goal up with sand or water and move it more than a few feet on concrete, much less on dirt/grass or on an angle.

Again, I really appreciate everyone's feedback on this topic. I find it very interesting to hear other people's views and enjoy participating in beneficial dialogue.

Bryan

BryanD2 (Georgia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MicheleD on 05/15/2008 5:38 AM

So, tell me again that basketball goals don't impact a sale? I might not say anything to my realtor, but if I look at a house that I have to dodge basketball goals to get down the street, or that has a neighbor's backboard facing my yard. . . not thanks, I'll pass. . . next house please. . .

Michelle,

Couldn't this same logic be applied to many other things that ARE allowed in almost all neighborhoods? For example, I certainly wouldn't buy a house, no matter how much I liked it, if the next door neighbor had a dog in the backyard that barked the entire time I was viewing the home. What about the color or landscaping of the homes around the home you are looking to buy? Doesn't that affect your decision as well? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to make the point that different people factor in different things when looking to buy a home. I guess it's like they say on those "Flip this House" shows, "There's a buyer for every home out there, you just have to wait for them to find yours"!!!

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Bryan, respectfully, that is why MOST of those types of things, in fact, ARE controlled or restricted in MOST neighborhoods (deed restricted neighborhoods).

Even the constantly barking dog, if it rises to the level of nuisance, can and is often addressed.

It's naive to think otherwise and just plain bogus to compare maneuvering through a basketball-goal obstacle course with a house color. But, point in fact, many of HOAs DO control that (house color) as well.

And I would certainly like to see the buyer who would think dodging a basketball goal obstacle course were a house-purchase draw. There might be one...or two of them out there. But it's a stretch.

Basketball goal placement is one of many CC&Rs that are intended to reduce the negative impact to the value of the homes in the area. Not because ONE person's basketball goal may or may not be an "eyesore" to someone else or may or may not "bother" ONE neighbor. Eyesore is not the issue at all. Disturbing the neighborhood, however, IS. And again, while ONE BB Goal may not have an impact, five, or 10 or more on ONE street will. Absolutely it will. Again, naive to think otherwise. And there is no way to affect or control the impact of those five or 10 without first having the ability to reasonably control or affect the ONE. The individual. Yours.

You could (and my guess just from your posts is that you probably do) say the exact same thing about each and every CC&R that does exist.

No. I am very glad that my HOA places such restrictions on basketball goal placement.

And the parking of commercial vehicles.

And the parking of motor homes and boats.

And the placement of garbage cans.

And on above-ground pools.

And on sheds and/or outbuildings.

And on fences.

And on signage.

And on and on and on.

One sign, no big deal; 275 advertising all sorts of fun tasty things. Big deal.

One motor home? not offensive. 275 parked shoulder to shoulder on quarter acre lots. Big deal.

The restrictions aren't there for the ONE, for your individual house alone ONLY. They are there for the MANY that could potentially grow and expand from the one, were there no control at all.

YOU can't have YOUR basketball goal out in the street, but by the same token, the OTHER 300 HOMES can't put THEIRS out there, either.

Thankfully. And you cannot ever convince me that my home would sell just as well, at an acceptable price to me were there a basketball goal forest woven through the streets in the subdivision.

BryanD2 (Georgia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MikeS1 on 05/14/2008 10:41 AM
Is this a Townhome or single family community?

Mike,

Sorry for not responding to your post earlier. This is a single family community with homes ranging from $250K to close to $400K in the Atlanta area.

CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826

Posted:

BryanD2,

I agree with your previously written post to a certain extent. My wife and I also enjoy seeing children playing outside; it tells us both that these kids aren’t huddle up in the house playing video games of wandering the streets causing trouble as you have stated.

MY SUGGESTION (EARLIER POSTED) WAS TO PUT SAND BAGS ON THE BASE OF THE BB GOAL TO KEEP IT FROM FALLING OVER, which can be removed daily and YES at which point can be rolled away WHEN NOT IN USE. Especially on concrete!

You can’t be serious with that particular challenge, are you?! “I would challenge anyone to fill a portable goal up with sand or water and move it more than a few feet on concrete, much less on dirt/grass or on an angle.”

I think you may want to withdraw that particular statement, due to the fact that I have observed several homeowners (women in particular, NO OFFENSE LADIES) roll their child’s BB goal from the beauty strip, down their driveway (concrete mind you) and then processed across the grass to her backyard on numerous occasions. Rather easily as well.

Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

BryanD2 (Georgia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CharlesW1 on 05/16/2008 8:14 AM

BryanD2,

I agree with your previously written post to a certain extent. My wife and I also enjoy seeing children playing outside; it tells us both that these kids aren’t huddle up in the house playing video games of wandering the streets causing trouble as you have stated.

MY SUGGESTION (EARLIER POSTED) WAS TO PUT SAND BAGS ON THE BASE OF THE BB GOAL TO KEEP IT FROM FALLING OVER, which can be removed daily and YES at which point can be rolled away WHEN NOT IN USE. Especially on concrete!

You can’t be serious with that particular challenge, are you?! “I would challenge anyone to fill a portable goal up with sand or water and move it more than a few feet on concrete, much less on dirt/grass or on an angle.”

I think you may want to withdraw that particular statement, due to the fact that I have observed several homeowners (women in particular, NO OFFENSE LADIES) roll their child’s BB goal from the beauty strip, down their driveway (concrete mind you) and then processed across the grass to her backyard on numerous occasions. Rather easily as well.

Chuck W.

Chuck,

My "challenge" was directed towards moving goals that have been filled, not empty, which I'm guessing is what the people you are referring to are doing. I agree 100% that moving a goal that is not filled is very easy to do. Even though I think the view of sand bags sitting on the goal looks bad, I understand the thought process and would certainly entertain that option.

However, as I stated before, a large # of homes in our neighborhood are sitting on daylight basements, which means they have very drastic slopes on both sides of the houses (my yard actually drops approx 8-10 feet in about a 10-15 foot span which is pretty common here). Even if a person could move the goal down the slope without it getting away from them and causing damage to the goal or themselves, the chances of them moving it back up the slope without assistance from multiple people would be impossible.

Maybe planting some shrubbery on the side of my house that would hide the goal if it is laid down would work? Hmmm..food for thought.

CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826

Posted:

BryanD2,

I certainly don’t mean to be sound argumentative. Although, I too reside in Georgia (like you) and there are several lots (including my own) that have houses with a basement, so unfortunately those lots are sloped substantially, compared to a lot built on a slab.

Many of the portable BB goals sold today (to my knowledge) are equipped with wheels (plastic round wheels), which WILL roll over grass and certainly over concrete with NO problem what–so-ever.

If there in a homeowner who is confronted with such problem, then the board CAN make a recommendation/suggestion for those few homeowners.

Where there is a will there is a way.

As far as planting shrubbery, that certainly would be an option. However, I don’t know how good that will look when alongside the many homes (w/basements) within your association, when NOT in use. I would make that an option (for those HO’s who can’t comply any other way). After you have amended your governing document to read that the BB goal MUST be stored behind the rear of the house and out of view from the street, first and foremost.

BTW- the sand bags used to hold the basketball goal from tipping over isn't any less attractive then the BB goal it’s self. IMHO.

Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

BryanD2 (Georgia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MicheleD on 05/15/2008 10:25 PM
Bryan, respectfully, that is why MOST of those types of things, in fact, ARE controlled or restricted in MOST neighborhoods (deed restricted neighborhoods).

Even the constantly barking dog, if it rises to the level of nuisance, can and is often addressed.

It's naive to think otherwise and just plain bogus to compare maneuvering through a basketball-goal obstacle course with a house color. But, point in fact, many of HOAs DO control that (house color) as well.

And I would certainly like to see the buyer who would think dodging a basketball goal obstacle course were a house-purchase draw. There might be one...or two of them out there. But it's a stretch.

Basketball goal placement is one of many CC&Rs that are intended to reduce the negative impact to the value of the homes in the area. Not because ONE person's basketball goal may or may not be an "eyesore" to someone else or may or may not "bother" ONE neighbor. Eyesore is not the issue at all. Disturbing the neighborhood, however, IS. And again, while ONE BB Goal may not have an impact, five, or 10 or more on ONE street will. Absolutely it will. Again, naive to think otherwise. And there is no way to affect or control the impact of those five or 10 without first having the ability to reasonably control or affect the ONE. The individual. Yours.

You could (and my guess just from your posts is that you probably do) say the exact same thing about each and every CC&R that does exist.

No. I am very glad that my HOA places such restrictions on basketball goal placement.

And the parking of commercial vehicles.

And the parking of motor homes and boats.

And the placement of garbage cans.

And on above-ground pools.

And on sheds and/or outbuildings.

And on fences.

And on signage.

And on and on and on.

One sign, no big deal; 275 advertising all sorts of fun tasty things. Big deal.

One motor home? not offensive. 275 parked shoulder to shoulder on quarter acre lots. Big deal.

The restrictions aren't there for the ONE, for your individual house alone ONLY. They are there for the MANY that could potentially grow and expand from the one, were there no control at all.

YOU can't have YOUR basketball goal out in the street, but by the same token, the OTHER 300 HOMES can't put THEIRS out there, either.

Thankfully. And you cannot ever convince me that my home would sell just as well, at an acceptable price to me were there a basketball goal forest woven through the streets in the subdivision.

Michele,

Although we obviously don't agree on this issue, I respectivefully appreciate your input and opinion and in no way am I attempting to convince you otherwise. However, I certainly don't consider myself to be naive. Based upon personal experience, and the reading I've done on this site, there are alot of HOA's out there that don't enforce things such as we have described even though it is there job to do so. If you happen to live in a neighborhood that enforces 100% of its covenants and rules, without any indication of selective enforcement, then I consider you to be a lucky homeowner. I don't think anyone would argue that your situation is not the norm.

My reference to house color and the barking dog in my earlier post was not in relation to what an HOA does and does not enforce. It was a reference to what people consider when they are looking at a potential house purchase. Personally, one of my biggest concerns when looking in a neighborhood is how many people don't park their vehicles in their garages, and how many people park on the street. But I can certainly understand someone who doesn't have kids, and doesn't want to ever hear the "clank" or "thud" of a basketball next to them might consider this in their decision. I have never witnessed a "basketball goal obstacle course", but, since I haven't driven through every neighborhood out there, it's possible that they do exist.

I certainly don't want to come across as someone who intentionally violates rules/covenants, because I am not. As a matter of fact, I am running for the board of our HOA because of many issues including covenant enforcement. My goal is to truly find out how the residents feel about issues such as bb goals and make changes accordingly.

Who knows, maybe someday a company will actually perform a study to determine what issues in a neighborhood actually do affect the resale of a home. But for now, I guess we will have to continue to go on personal opinion!

Bryan

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Bryan,

My husband & I are retirees and there are quite a few children on our cul-de-sac. We knew there were children when we moved in. Although I do prefer peace and quiet, I don't mind hearing children at play. The bump and bang of a basketball against the backboard isn't any noisier than skateboards banging up and down the street. I certainly hope an HOA would never consider banning children from playing outdoors. That's why I see no problem with allowing basketball goals, whether portable or not. When only portable ones are allowed most assn's do insist they be placed behind the gate/wall when not in use. My neighbor's boys have a portable goal and they drag it behind the wall after they've finished playing. It doesn't seem to be a big deal.

Your complaint seemed to be the fact that you didn't believe the board had the right to make a rule that wasn't covered in the CCRs. Did you check your CCRs to see if the board does have the authority to make additional rules, as I suggested earlier? Just curious.

BryanD2 (Georgia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

After further investigation, I was able to find the restrictions regarding placement of the goal when not in use within the Architectural Guidelines document. It does state that the goal must be stored "out of view" when not in use.

I appreciate everyone's input on this topic.

Bryan

StevenW3 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 64

Posted:

Our HOA says they must be kept out of sight when not in use and that no permanent backboards may be put up. This is ignored by all those who have them including the HOA VP. In fact, our HOA doesn't enforce any of the covenants although they will require you to submit and get approval on Architectural issues (outbuildings, paint, fencing, etc.) Cool eh? Don't enforce anything because those in charge of enforcement are in violation...I love it...NOT....

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

well steve, remember that when you vote.

TracyT (Maryland)
Posts: 228

Posted:

Are basketball hoops (portable or permanent) considered toys? Thanks. Tracy

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

WE CALL THEM RECREATIONAL EQUIPEMENT (hockey nets, skateboard ramps ,backboards for baseball, etc) All must be removed from the streets and put out of view when not in use.

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

I'm disabled so I can't move the goal, or the proposed sandbags. I DEMAND reasonable accomodation to leave my goal in place cause my kid sure as heck can't move it! There is always some example of why a rule doesn't work.

Just kidding.

CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DJ1 on 06/10/2008 4:34 AM
I'm disabled so I can't move the goal, or the proposed sandbags. I DEMAND reasonable accomodation to leave my goal in place cause my kid sure as heck can't move it! There is always some example of why a rule doesn't work.

Just kidding.

DJ1

I hear what you’re saying about being “disable”. However, the classification for being disabled ISN’T determined by its severity. Everything from being blind in one eye (manageable) to NOT being able to walk, are all classified as being disabled. Unfortunately, “playing” that card ONLY holds so much water with me!

I spend the majority of my day sitting in our office (on the computer), “disabled” as well. Although, yesterday I watched two (2) young boys (maybe 10 years old) drag a basketball goal (portable) out to the curb, as they always do, and started “shooting” hoops.

“Where there is will there is a way”

I feel that each claim should be reviewed on an individual basis. That way each request (lifestyle, predicament) can be thoroughly reviewed, prior to being approved or denied.

Just me two cents!

Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Aren't we lucky, then, that our CC&Rs don't allow the basketball goals anywhere near the street for ANYBODY then?

If you have a portable basketball goal, you cannot place it any closer to the street than on the home side of the sidewalk.

BryanD2 (Georgia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Since we live in a culdesac, it works great being able to put the goal at the end of the driveway while the kids are playing with it. It's better than having to move cars out of the drive way and in to the street.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

I agree with Charles on this one. Sometimes the "handicapped" classification is overused. Of course I am not argueing about legitimate ones. But DJ, I wonder if your "kid" has any friends that play with him and they cannot move the hoop? I have seen 8 year olds move those things with no problem so where there is a will, there is a way.

I always remind people that even tho your kids want to have free rein to the streets as play areas, there are other people, like us more senior ones, who don't want to navigate around the hoops and the flying kids. How about our not wanting to hear the thumps for hours. Respect for all of the residents, that's all we ask.

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MicheleD on 06/10/2008 6:19 AM
Aren't we lucky, then, that our CC&Rs don't allow the basketball goals anywhere near the street for ANYBODY then?

If you have a portable basketball goal, you cannot place it any closer to the street than on the home side of the sidewalk.

I'm sorry Michele but I can't resist this one. We have sidewalks on only one side of the street....and guess which side our house is on? The one with NO sidewalk! Thanks for the laugh.

BryanD2 (Georgia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DJ1 on 06/10/2008 11:07 AM

I'm sorry Michele but I can't resist this one. We have sidewalks on only one side of the street....and guess which side our house is on? The one with NO sidewalk! Thanks for the laugh.

That's too funny... I didn't even catch it before, but we are in the same boat. No sidewalks on our side of the street either!!!

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DonnaS on 06/10/2008 6:52 AM

I agree with Charles on this one. Sometimes the "handicapped" classification is overused. Of course I am not argueing about legitimate ones. But DJ, I wonder if your "kid" has any friends that play with him and they cannot move the hoop? I have seen 8 year olds move those things with no problem so where there is a will, there is a way.

I always remind people that even tho your kids want to have free rein to the streets as play areas, there are other people, like us more senior ones, who don't want to navigate around the hoops and the flying kids. How about our not wanting to hear the thumps for hours. Respect for all of the residents, that's all we ask.

Donna, my kid lives in a subdivision where the Developer marketed it as an empty nester community..which explains why some residents are ticked there are a few kids here. Of course one in particular bought a year or so AFTER we were here so for her to complain is ludicrous..had she checked out the neighbourhood beforehand.

As far as any friends...we live in a somewhat rural area so my kid frequently plays BB alone. Kind of explains WHY we bought it in the first place, to give em something to do. I can assure you that the sucker is quite heavy and dangerous for an adult to move (we put water in it) at the end of the season. It is NOT something that can safely be done due to the steel pipe. It is the standard type you see at stores today with a plastic hollow base, and ~10' Steel X ~3" diameter pipe.

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

PS Donna, I'm all for respecting ones neighbours but your example of the thump is kind of 'selective'. I don't happen to enjoy the sound of gas lawnmowers but most of my neighbours run them ~couple times a week, then the blowers, then the weedeaters and they surely drown out the thump. Should I expect them to stop? PS Ours is a gardenia 12v rotary.

BryanD2 (Georgia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Quote:

Donna,

Even though all of the kids on our end of the street play in the culdesac, I definitely don't consider it "free rein". At any given time when the kids are playing, there are two sets of parents sitting in drive ways watching them. The rule of thumb is that when they hear someone yell "CAR!!", that is their indication to move immediately to the side of the street and wait until told by an adult that it is safe to resume playing. In regards to respect for others, all of the kids on our street are still young enough that they are usually inside the house before dark.

If hearing the "thump" of a basketball or kids laughing and playing chase at 6pm bothers someone, then they really should consider moving in to an "adult only" neighborhood or buy ten acres and build their house right in the middle!!! Every city or county that I have lived in has had ordinances against noise after certain times, and that has been the approach that I have taken on several occasions.

BryanD2 (Georgia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DJ1 on 06/10/2008 11:12 AM

DJ1,

I agree completely... I'm certainly not calling anyone on here a liar, but I would love to see a 10 year old, or even two of them, move a portable basketball goal any distance (especially across grass). I've moved one many times, and I know first hand that even though they have wheels, they are very large, bundlesome, and become very top heavy when empty and leaned over. When full of water or sand, it takes alot just to get one leaned over, and even more strength to get it to move!

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

Check out the safety instructions that comes with them too.

I suppose they only put comments like "Do not allow children to move or adjust system",

"After assembly is complete, fill system completely with water
or sand and stake to the ground. Never leave system in an
upright position without filling base with weight, as system
may tip over causing injuries."

"WARNING!
AVERTISSEMENT!
WARNUNG!
¡ADVERTENCIA!
DO NOT LEAVE ASSEMBLY UNATTENDED
WHEN EMPTY; IT MAY TIP OVER.
TWO CAPABLE ADULTS REQUIRED FOR THIS
PROCEDURE. FAILURE TO FOLLOW THIS
WARNING COULD RESULT IN SERIOUS
INJURY AND/OR PROPERTY DAMAGE"

Even the sandbag suggestion isn't adequate for safe use!

Then again, maybe it is just to cover the A** to minimize lawsuits!

http://www.academy.com/images/pdf/spalding/72289T.pdf

BrianL (Maryland)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Is it possible that we are talking about 2 different types of portable goals here? We have a portable regulation hoop about 6 yrs. old. We tried filling it with water but it wasn't stable in wind. So we filled it with sand. It took 200 lbs of sand to fill. Im 6'0, ~200 lb weight training guy and I struggle moving that thing on asphalt even with the wheels. No way moving on grass easily. I would love to see the 8 yo that could move it.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BrianL on 06/10/2008 12:45 PM
Is it possible that we are talking about 2 different types of portable goals here? We have a portable regulation hoop about 6 yrs. old. We tried filling it with water but it wasn't stable in wind. So we filled it with sand. It took 200 lbs of sand to fill. Im 6'0, ~200 lb weight training guy and I struggle moving that thing on asphalt even with the wheels. No way moving on grass easily. I would love to see the 8 yo that could move it.

Brian,

Portable means, "easily carried or moved". What you've described, IMO, would not be referred to as a portable b/b goal. Semi-permanent at the very least! I believe the portable goals have wheels so they can be moved easier.

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaryA1 on 06/10/2008 3:33 PM

Mary what Brian is referring to is in fact a 'portable bb goal'. Do a search for 'Portable basketball goals' and you will find them at Walmart etc. They come with a base which is supposed to be filled with Sand or Water.

ie. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=77583

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

DJ,

Have you discussed this with Webster? LOL

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