Monitoring Cameras in Pool/Gym

We have a pool and gym in our community. In the past we left monitoring to the management company. One board member(male) now has access to view. This is a simple RING system. I have heard some systems keep a record of who accessed the cameras and how long they watched them, yet Ring does not. My concern is that the community is unaware that this man(or any future board members) could possibly be watching their kids or women all day.

Thanks for the response!!! My issue is more policy related....Not if someone is liked or disliked, and not about removal of a director.

"Watch the watchers"...I like that...Thanks for the reply!!

Got it.

I for one would support a policy of who has viewing privileges of the footage, and under what circumstances. If I were on your HOA's board, I would vote accordingly, and with an eye on your concerns (which undoubtedly would be many people's concerns).

I think I recall reading about women's (to name one group) complaints of being stared at (not merely looked at) at public pools and gyms. It's a big deal AFAIC.

Say, Jeff, are you on the Board? Did the Board vote to approve this director have access ? What was the Board'a reasoning, if so?

TristaJ,
Cameras are everywhere these days. When someone is outside or inside any business in the USA you are being watched. I knew someone who set up cameras at our Famous Buc cees Stores in Texas and he told me they have between 900 and 1000 cameras at every location. They watch everything. Most camera systems only record and then overwrite data after x number of days.

In our HOA we have cameras in our Common areas and that includes the Pool. They are there to review if any event happens. They are not monitored until any event is reported. I bet if anything happened to anyone you knew you would be happy that the cameras may help Police apprehend the person responsible.

That's the key, though. They should not be monitored live, imo, and recordings should never be reviewed by a single individual. This is a reasonable and responsible way to assure homeowners the board isn't being voyeuristic.

Terri,
Yes, you are correct signage is important. Are you saying that no signage exists in your HOA? I have to wonder if you can find the signs in Walmart and Target? I will have to check next time I go into one of those stores. I always assume that I give up my rights to privacy when I am in a Public space.

Seriously? With those restrictions, I find it questionable what value there is to having security cameras in the first place.

Someone calls me and says "something at the pool is leaking". Am I supposed to drop everything and go up to the pool to check on it?

A lifeguard calls me and says "we've got a problem". I'm not allowed to bring up the app and look at what's going on?

"A homeless person just now jumped the fence and went into the men’s room. We don’t know what to do!" at 4pm. Do I need to call 911 immediately? Or should I mosey over to the pool and check it out first?

These are all real things that I've had to deal with. It's far from a complete list. Things have calmed down since Labor Day but I had stuff like this arise 2-5 times a week in May/June/July/August.

I'm supposed to get together with another Board member to review footage? I'm lucky if I can get another Board member on the phone! With the kind of "trespassing" problems we have - we had 8 separate instances in 6 days at the end of August, for instance - requiring two or more people to review video together would mean we'd never even know the kind of problem we're having. With that restriction, I'd *still* be gathering up the evidence on the trespasser/vandal we had in January.

Don't get me wrong - I understand the concerns that some people have. But if I had to operate with those restrictions, the system would be worse than useless and I'd never touch it. And our pool would look like something out of Dante.

For what little it's worth: shortly after I was elected to the Board, someone sent me the instructions to hook up the video and I asked "so, what kind of policies do we have on this?" Another Board member responded "none". I'm unaware of any law we might be violating. I know Texas has a somewhat unusual law against "improper photography" but that's primarily aimed at people installing spy cameras in restrooms or on their shoes to take pictures up a woman's skirt. I'd quite happily comply with those restrictions even if there wasn't a law about it.

It's just MHO, but it all comes down to a matter of trust. When I was elected to the Board, I became privy to *all kinds* of sensitive information: financial stuff, who's late on their dues, people's addresses and phone numbers, ACC records, violation records, &c &c &c. One of our PMs unknowingly sent me some financial reports that included the username and password into their accounting system (which I ignored). I'd be more concerned about *that* than someone watching the pool on video.

Finally - a few weeks ago our pool guy was telling me about a pool that he serviced up north that recently had a "Barbie Day" at the pool - a concept that simply Would Not Fly in my neighborhood. He said "the pool was full of hot women in bikinis! I worked some overtime that day!" Which I thought was extremely funny - our pool guy (who is very good at his job) is probably a few years younger than I am but he looks and acts like he's a decade older, and he has an 'old person innocence' thing that reminds me of, say, my father back in the 1970s when he and I were watching television and they showed a movie that - first time ever on television - showed a man and woman making love. I barely remember it (except that it was about the most non-explicit sex scene ever) but I remember my father saying "can you *believe* that!?" Our pool guy's reaction to "Barbie Day" was something like that. I mention it here because, really, if someone in my HOA wanted to get all pervy over women at the pool - they could just *go* there and hang out. If was all hawt, I'd actually *prefer* having the perverts watch on-camera and far away from my actual physical self.

Bill

Note: active surveillance may make sense in some cases, such as inside a high-rise where the HOA employs security personnel and where the cameras are meant to increase safety of the residents. That's different from monitoring outdoor pools, because outdoor shenanigans don't endanger residents the way an intruder inside your building can. Different purposes = different rules around the use of cameras. The HOA attorney and insurer may have something useful to say about this topic.

For the record: I *do* get what y'all are saying. What I wrote above is largely a reaction - if I were to adopt these practices, I would literally never use the video system. There's a slightly weird epistemological angle to it: we all might be happier people if we didn't know some of the things we know from the video system.

I just checked our governing docs, and the CCRs *do* contain a couple of paragraphs warning that "no surveillance system should be relied upon to ensure a resident's personal safety" and other choice phrases.

As for using the system to flag people for CCR violations: I agree that's kinda smelly. I could say "but, the decision to install the video system was made years ago by a different Board with different people!" but that's a cop-out. For what little it's worth, we've only taken action against a resident once: a group of young drunk people broke into the pool at 2am and had a small party. As they were leaving one of them vomited copiously on the pool deck - and just left it there. We filed a couple of violations against them over it. But it is indeed an interesting and valid point (and one that I'll keep in mind for the future) that we should generally avoid using the system to identify CCR violations. Although I don't feel bad about the vomit thing because it was really bad.

When I sit and think about it - and I know this sounds totally self-serving - we really only use the video for a handful of basic things:

- tracking trespassers (example: I wake up in the morning, drink coffee and FF through the previous night to see if we've had 'visitors')
- figuring out problems (the recent "pool was locked up for two days" incident; we'd have never figured out what happened without video)(and I'll say: this kind of thing crops up more often than you'd expect. Example: back in July the LGs had to shut down the pool over a "contamination issue" and because {reasons} I didn't know until I began getting messages asking why was the pool closed? I was able to use the video system to backtrack and figure out what happened).
- maintenance issues (ie, verifying leaking broken pump)
- "calls for help" (ie, the LGs call me with a problem)
- general pool status (every so often I'll peek in to see how busy the pool is)

That's pretty much it. I'll also mention that the system and software we have is not especially friendly, and while there is a certain puzzle-like aspect to tracking down the occasional problem, for the most part watching surveillance video is like watching a pot of water on the stove: "is it boiling yet? is it? is it?" "Tedious" is an understatement.

I'm sorry - I'm really not trying to argue the point. This thread has made me do some thinking on the topic, though. I guess if I were to try to summarize, I'd say that a video surveillance system can be an extremely useful tool for pool management. It won't guarantee safety, it won't prevent crime, it can be abused - but it can also be extremely useful and save a LOT of time and hassle.

Bill

Most agree that the main (but not only) job of an Association (thus its Board) is to protect, maintain & enhance the common areas. In Terri's case, I think their only common area are their roads. No need for cameras.

In high rise twin towers like my HOA, with 2 lobbies, 4 elevators, and several common area recreational areas, cameras help protect the common areas. It's not only residents who can accidentally or otherwise damage our common areas. Just or more likely are the numerous HOA vendors who work here on our infrastructure and recreational amenities. Moves are frequent. Owners hire contractors to rehab their Units with elaborate structural work. Our elevators are padded, which is required for these workers, but accidents do happen. Hallway runners are required. (We don't have a service elevator.)

Our Owners have been saved thousands of dollars because cameras have captured residents or vendors causing damage to elevators or entrances, lobby furniture, etc. A $1,300 luggage cart was taken off site for a joyride & never found. Cameras helped identify the Unit. These unit owner or firms have been billed and they have paid up.

Cameras at our pool & spa are monitored during their open hours constantly by our access control officers who have about 16 screens in 3 settings. If they see excessive roughhousing or dunking activities, especially if noisy they'll leave their post and instruct the rowdy users to settle down. Occasionally they can see glass containers which obviously are forbidden in the pool area.

In our urban setting, there are cameras that surround our square block premises and, of course, that're aimed at our 3 pedestrian entrances and vehicle entrance. These primarily are to protect our exterior common areas, but might provide some level of personal safety.

We've never had cameras in our gym, which seems fine with everyone. I personally am glad no one's watching me work out. And yes, there has been rare damage.