What do you consider an exterior change?

There are a few articles on this topic:

Homeowners association rules governing exterior changes cannot be ignored An old Washington Post article

Architectural Change From Law Insider (note: defines architectural changes not exterior change).

A Guide to Architectural Control in Homeowners’ Associations from the Homeowners Protection Bureau

What's the Deal With Homeowners Association Rules? from lemonade.com

Decision from the Court of Appeals: Martin v. The Landfall Council of Associations, Inc from Law Firms Carolinas

Don’t Screw Up Your Architectural Committee and Approval Process from Law Firms Carolinas

Architectural Review: Protecting the Aesthetics of your HOA Neighborhood (Oregon Law) a 2009 article from a law firm

Unfortunately, even these articles aren't good at defining what an exterior change would be.

most of your sources as well as most all other websites, including Davis-Stirling, seem to define "exterior changes" as physical and permanent aspects of the property/building visible to the community and neighbors.

Can you tell me if you personally think a BBQ grill or a patio set is an exterior change that should be controlled by the ACC?

See the other thread where you asked that question.

I don't really want this thread to get into arguments based on differing opinions.
I would prefer it to show what some see as exterior changes so everyone can see the different perspectives.

Basic response: As John pointed out, it can vary widely by Associations. Depending on the size of the patio, deck, etc. and the location of the items, an Association might see them as exterior changes where others would not.

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"Outside" is outside the exterior boundaries of a unit or home.

Regards,
Steve

Our HOA has a rule that one must have white shades in their windows. Especially those that face the street view. I believe that "Exterior" means things you can touch/see from the outside of a home/property. This may include things in the windows.

A few years ago someone sued Google because their cat was seen in a google map view. If you googled near their address you could see their cat sleeping in their window. They felt this was an invasion of privacy. One could argue this was an exterior issue since the cat appeared to the exterior view. Others could argue the cat was INSIDE the home.

It's a complicated subject as we also have those case of people being naked in front of windows with no cover. Is this indecent exposure or private activity inside their home? We had a guy who used to stand in his window naked intentionally. Had several complaints. Not much could do about it as the police had to see it in order to act. He'd hide when the cops drove by.

My opinion is that if I can see it from the outside of the home without it being blocked from view by curtains/shades/fencing then it is exterior.

I would say things like certain signs in your windows that are not for rent/sale signs or not white shades. Say your HOA says must have white shades in the windows. I would say need permission. If you put a sign that says "Jesus Saves" or "Open/Closed" then yes permission. Open/Close indicates a business or a house of ill repute... Religion or political signage is just asking for trouble now a days...

That isn't a permission thing. It's not defined as something need permission for in the rules like signs and shades. So no would not need to ask for permission of a picture of your grandmother when she worked in the burlesque show in the day...

I'm confused as to why opinions are necessary or beneficial to answer the OP's question: "What would you consider an exterior change?". Many state CIC statutes identify the boundaries of a unit. Here's an example. In this case, everything outside the boundaries is exterior (and in the case of condominiums, generally a common element).

RCW 64.90.210 - Unit boundaries.
(1) Except as provided by the declaration or, in the case of a plat community or miscellaneous community, by the map:
(a) If walls, floors, or ceilings are designated as boundaries of a unit, all lath, furring, wallboard, plasterboard, plaster, paneling, tiles, wallpaper, paint, finished flooring, and any other materials constituting any part of the finished surfaces thereof are a part of the unit, and all other portions of the walls, floors, or ceilings are a part of the common elements.
(b) If any chute, flue, duct, wire, conduit, bearing wall, bearing column, or any other fixture lies partially within and partially outside the designated boundaries of a unit, any portion thereof serving only that unit is a limited common element allocated solely to that unit, and any portion thereof serving more than one unit or any portion of the common elements is a part of the common elements.
(2) Subject to subsection (1)(b) of this section, all spaces, interior partitions, and other fixtures and improvements within the boundaries of a unit are a part of the unit.
(3) Any fireplaces, shutters, awnings, window boxes, doorsteps, stoops, porches, balconies, decks, patios, and all exterior doors and windows or other fixtures designed to serve a single unit, but located outside the unit's boundaries, are limited common elements allocated exclusively to that unit.

Regards,
Steve

Was asked for opinion and gave one. Everyone is allowed an opinion. Never stated or acted like it was a fact. Why the need to manipulate ones opinion into something that is anything else? Not like I stated it was a fact and then posted a Googled search fact after. Oh wait that was you...

Agreed. This appears to generally be the accepted definition....is it permanent, exterior part of the property (mailbox, paint color, windows, new additions, etc)? Of course, your HOA could add more to the list like curtain color, patio sets, flower plantings, but that's extra, not part of the generally understood concept of "exterior change."

I don't think this is that hard to work through.

In reference to the other thread about the trampoline....it is not permanent. It was not previously controlled. It fails to meet the criteria of "exterior change" by most all definitions.

It seems Tim's talking about exterior changes to detached homes. But Steve's citation clearly concerns condo buildings. The wording is almost identical to the CC&Rs for my high rise HOA. So it does'nt address Tim's question at all.

But it does pose the question of whether "exterior changes" refer to alterations to the house's physical structure & appearance ? Or does it relate to what a resident may/may not place in their front yard or in their side/back yards? I don't see play sets of any kind, tramps, swing sets, "forts" as "exterior changes.'

I completely reject that window coverings or anything on the interior of a home can be considered "exterior" simply because those on the exterior can see them. HOAs, though, can do make rules about them for other reasons.

Btw, in CA we condo (any HOA?) dwellers can put any non-commercial sign or banners in our windows that we wish. HOAs can limit them, e.g, we may only have on of those in one window not to exceed 15 sf for a banner and not to exceed 4X4' for a sign. And, yes, it can say "Jesus loves you or Praise Allah. I have a "um," "social issue" banner up right now. Relator signs, too, can be in windows with the same size restrictions and others

generally, Opinions that are not supported by anything are not worth much. You'll be hard pressed to convince anyone that your opinion has value or merit if you can't support it.

That's kind of the whole point of these postings....to discuss a topic and help work through situations and opinions. If you just want to say an opinion with no supporting statements, especially one that is contrary to generally understood principles, then you're just making noise and most of us don't want to hear it.

Exterior, plain & simple means "outside" so far as I've heard over the decades; it does not mean "*visible* from the outside," or "able to be be seen from the outside." You've shared a fabulous Wikipedia definition with us before, Melissa. How about for the word "exterior?"

that sounds like a specific section of the CCR/ACC calling something out to be controlled. Just like sections that describe house colors, landscape designs, etc. Most of these little restrictions are just that, a restriction to be followed and doesn't necessitate an ACC request to change your curtains from eggshell to pearl color.

I think what this post is about what specifically falls under the umbrella of "Exterior Change," thus justifying the need for an ACC request.

I am talking about it as it is in our rules. Must have white shades. That is a rule.

No one is asking for lists of every possible weird rule that your HOA uses. We are specifically talking about exterior changes. My HOA has a rule about quantity of dogs allowed. Should we discuss that here too?

Please stay on topic, melissa.

Adam, you might not be familiar with that rule about the color of curtains and shades and we don't use it in my HOA, but it is an extremely common rule in HOAs and especially COAs across the country. It is in the docs for our condo sub-associations in my community and also in the docs for a condo we own elsewhere in town.

I just hate all the bickering.

Windows are exterior items. They would need approval because they are exterior. There a different colors, pane configuration, or may need made of wood or vinyl. Windows are exterior last I checked.

Window shades are part of what one may describe as the window box/frame/view. It is part of the window view. It shows to the exterior. That means it can be part of the approval for consistent appearances.

There are other HOA that have the same rule. You are all putting words in my mouth about approving pictures on a wall inside the house. I never said anything about those needing approval. I just said the exterior window and/or shade inside.

So stop with putting words in people's mouths and then asserting that they are full of it. It makes no sense at a to be involved with what is inside someone's house. Shades or what is on a exterior facing windows is different animal.

Your explanation is correct, Steve. Thank you for providing it.

Say, Shelia, the O.P.'s topic is "exterior" changes and items. So...do you consider living room or bedroom curtains, blinds, drapes "exterior" Items?

a couch would most likely fall into the "Unsightly Articles" clause.

Trying to get back on topic, we are discussing what qualifies as "an exterior change," thus triggering an ACC/ARC request.

Edit - It is a violation if they do NOT have white shades in the window IF they CHOOSE to have window shades in the window. It is NOT required one has shades. It just if you do have them, the standard is white.

Not one poster yet, Melissa, has agreed that window treatments are "exterior" items. Our condo HOA also has rules for window shades/blinds/drapes' colors and condition. But, replacing my white blinds with another permitted or forbidden color is not an "exterior" change.

Installing awnings or shutters or bars or other materials on the exterior (outside of the house) of the windows either is prohibited by an HOA's ARC or requires ARC approval. I would call them , sticking with Adam's earliest reply an extra change because they are attached and meant to be permanent.

I agree with Tim that changes/additions in side & rear yards is more difficult. Susan's example though, is interesting. She has an "RV gate" so thinks she should be permitted to store an RV or trailer in her yard. Though not permanent, I can see that an HOA would not approve such vehicles.

But what about this: Would an owner need ARC approval to install a large gate like hers in a side or backyard fence? I'd say it's an exterior change.

Susan that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but I wouldn't want to live in an HOA where broken out windows was a standard of whether the house was kept up or not. If you live in an HOA then you knew the rules before you moved in. If you want to park a boat or an RV on your property and your HOA allows it, then great and it's the right community for you. The problem comes when you move into an HOA that doesn't allow an RV or boat and you feel you should be able to do it anyway. HOAs are not for every one, but if you agreed to the rules before you move in then you just have to put up with it.

In my HOA, ANYTHING that is done to the exterior of the house and yard pretty much requires an ACC request. Roofs, paint colors, fences, landscaping, trampolines, playsets, mailboxes, satellite dishes, solar panels, tree removal or additions, driveway extensions, etc. All require an ACC application BUT about 95% of the applications get approved. We have very clear ACC rules and our ACC is made up of five pretty reasonable people who know they are there to enforce the rules and not make wild interpretations. And believe me the board hears from homeowners who feel their neighbors have made changes without permission. And a lot of the time the ACC application is required simply because we want to make sure the placement of things (like fences, trampolines and playsets) aren't in easements or that the homeowner isn't choosing a color or style that simply does not fit with the style of the community.

My HOA has many rules that aren't about the actual exterior of the building. This post is about "exterior" changes, not rules.