Stubborn residents

We have a few residents that insist on placing basketball hoops in the street, near the sidewalk. This is a clear violation of our deed restrictions.

We have tried on many occasions to get them to move them, but they refuse.

We've tried fining them, but the refuse to pay, and we're already aware that they're, essentially, not obligated to do so. We could go after them in small claims court for it, but would it be worth it for a few hundred in fines?

Anyway, we're at wits end here, and wanted to know if anyone had any ideas on how to move forward in this situation? Can we impound the hoops as we would a vehicle for, say, parking on the street?

Bryan, why do you think they are not obligated to pay? This depends on your declaration of CC&Rs. It may be that you may be allowed to assess a fine against their property; esculate the amount of the fine each time another violation occurs; file a lien against their property; and more! If you are not allowed to fine you can establish rules which make them 'members not in good standing' and take away their rights to voting privilges, use of amenities, etc.

This place needs edit buttons...

I would like to add that, from what I understand, is that case law - at least in Florida - says you can't place a lien on someones property if they refuse to pay fines...Just like the state can't place a lien on your car if you refuse to pay a parking or speeding ticket.

Try calling your local police or sheriffs dept.they may have the power to have them removed from the street

BryanG1: Since your streets are county owned and maintained, I am surprised that the police have not been called and the residents cited. Are these basketball hoops the kind that are on a large frame which sits on a flat surface?

If they are being placed in the street are they infringing on vehicle parking and vehicle right-of-way?

I our city/county metro area, even if the basketball goals are NOT in the street, but placed in the easement between the sidewalk and the street our local Inspections, Permits and Licenses enforcement branch will order their removal. Why? Because when in use, the people playing will HAVE to be in the street.

So I would also check with your local code enforcement organization to see what assistance you might be afforded from that end.

Usually the lot lines are just behind the sidewalk when the streets are county owned, maintained by the state or county; and the sidewalks are usually county owned as well. There's definately a safety issue here and more juridisctions don't allow folks to place their basketball goals on county or state maintained right of ways.

Every day is one step closer to communism.

Florida Statutes state:

A fine shall not become a lien against a parcel. In any action to recover a fine, the prevailing party is entitled to collect its reasonable attorney's fees and costs from the nonprevailing party as determined by the court.

But it doesn't say it can't become a special assessment...might have to talk to the Attorney General to get an opinion on this one, or see if there is one already.

No. When someone moves into a deed restricted community, they agree to follow the rules put forth by the members of that community. If all but one follows the rules, then they have to be enforced...otherwise, why have them?

Perhaps I'll talk to the board about getting an official opinion from the Florida Attorney General. I checked on the AG's website, but could not find anything regarding HOA fines.

Banning portable basketball hoops from a public street is borderline communism.

Taking over the street with a basketball hoop and using kids as a shield is terrorism.

Michele,
The above poster uses that word quite often. Glad you sent a definition. He seems like the kind of guy who doesn't like rules and regulations. We all want freedom but rules are for the close proximity of living in a developement and for the people who can't figure out what that should entail

I have a statement that I gave at one of our homeowners meeting where the hoops were being passionately discussed and would like to share it. Some background for you all.

Our developement consists of 565 homes. About 65% of these homes are older couples who do not have kids at home. The homes are between $6oo,000 to $850,000 . Unfortunately, the developer did not allow any play areas for the kids who are there.

The basketball hoops got to be a big issue. We allowed them to be the portable type and had to be used in the driveways which were long enough for this use. They had to be layed down along the sides of the houses when not in use.

Pretty soon, they were starting to remain in sight when not being used, sometimes 4 then 10 then 20. The soccer Moms got in a bunch and got pretty vocal about how much trouble it was to remove them each time
.
A neighbor complained about the covenant, which said "NONE IN SIGHT" He was right on that issue so we started to ask them to be taken down. The wars began. It has been resolved since by diligence of the P.M. and the Board members.

BUT HERE IS WHAT I SAID TO THE MEMBERSHIP.
"THIS COMMUNITY IS MADE UP OF YOUNG FAMILIES AND COUPLES WITHOUT CHILDREN. WE SEEM ALWAYS TO BE DEALING WITH ISSUES THAT CONCERN THE CHILDREN MOST TIMES. LET US NOT FORGET THAT THERE ARE 65% OF THE HOMES OCCUPIED HERE WITH OLDER ADULTS. THEY HAVE RIGHTS TO PEACE AND QUIET AND OFTEN WE DON'T LISTEN TO THEIR SIDE. THEY ARE THE MEMBERS THAT MAKE UP THE BOARDS, THE COMMITTEES AND MOST OF THE VOLUNTEERS. BUT YET THEY ARE IGNORED ON THEIR REQUESTS FOR SOME CONSIDERATION TO THEIR DESIRE FOR A PEACEFUL PLACE TO LIVE."
Soon, the hoops started to get back in place. We sent a feww letters out but it happily is over.
Donna

Here is a recently adopted Arizona statue involving children playing in the street, which allows a portable sign to be placed to warn drivers.

"D. Notwithstanding any provision in the community documents, an association shall not prohibit the use of cautionary signs regarding children if the signs are used and displayed as follows:

1. The signs are displayed in residential areas only.

2. The signs are removed within one hour of children ceasing to play.

3. The signs are displayed only when children are actually present within fifty feet of the sign.

4. The temporary signs are no taller than three feet in height.

5. The signs are professionally manufactured or produced."

Harold

That says it all and it says it very well.

GO RON GO!

I'm sure we're only hearing one side of the story and ofcourse there are always at least three. Your's, mine and the truth. I'd be willing to bet that the driveways aren't flat enough to play basketball. Probably a 15% angle, lol. The developer made the rule knowing it was a stupid rule so he could sell houses. Otherwise if he could sell he would of made it an adult only community.

Obviously you don't have to uphold a dumb CC&R, you could change it. You never mention what the kid's options are. I thought that was you that said you had big driveways- must of been someone else.

When I was a kid we used to nail plywood and a hoop on to a wooden telephone pole and we'd play day and night. One neighborhood kid even went on to play for Villanova during a championship year. Driveways were two tire wide strips of concrete with grass in the middle, the park was a mile away. When you're a young kid your parents want you where they can see and hear you. Chasing kids from the street with their portable basketball goals is an obsenity, pure and simple. Where does it say, write CC&Rs- lose common sense?

I understand all too well. That's why I head the re-write committee. We're looking to add some real world common sense to the builder's sales and protection tool.


That's a crock. People bought their homes because they liked them, with little to no regard for the CC&Rs. That's exactly why the community is polarized now.

Who thought people would lose common sense and take the developer's sales ploy seriously? We all know the builder's main agenda is to sell shelter, not care for people. I can't think of worse people to write CC&Rs than builders and their lawyers. No conflicting agendas there. lol What's really scary is board people think they have to enforce some of these ridiculous rules. All kids to the back of the bus, hahahahaha


Obviously it varies from one association to the next but it's far from impossible. Hey, the legislature does it all the time. lol

John, you’re not making any sense. You seem to be saying that the CC&Rs are the “builder’s sales tool” yet you also seem to be saying that the people who bought these properties are unhappy with this same “sales tool”.

Many of the people in my neighborhood have told me and others that they bought property or homes in our association because of bad experiences in other neighborhoods. Experiences such as neighbors parking vehicles, trailers, boats, etc. on the front lawns, painting their homes in garish colors, not maintaining their properties, etc. My wife and I got the CC&Rs before we purchased our home and studied them to be sure we would be happy living within the restrictions. Take a look at what happens in a neighborhood without CC&Rs or effective enforcement here:

http://ifhoa.awardspace.com/gallery2.htm

If people “bought their homes because they liked them, with little to no regard for the CC&Rs.”, they were not very intelligent people. Anyone who would invest several hundred thousand dollars without investigating what they are purchasing just doesn’t have much sense. You seem to be saying that 75% or more of the owners in your community fit this category.

As far as enforcing these “ridiculous rules”, yes, the association is legally bound to enforce them. Any property owner can demand that they be enforced. The HOA can be taken to court if necessary to force them to enforce the CC&Rs.

It appears to me that you are one of the people who “bought their homes because they liked them, with little to no regard for the CC&Rs.” and are now having buyer’s remorse. You can have re-write committees until the cows come home but I doubt you will get the necessary majority to amend your CC&Rs.

Right-On Michele - Tell me though...Doesn't it require two-thirds or 75% OF members to sign off on modifying the CCRs if this subject is already specifically addressed. If so, I can just imagine how much of a challenge that it's going to be for either you or JOhn in order to get all the signatures (unless you live in a very small HOA. We can't get a majority opinion on many of the issues in our community...let alone get a 2/3's opinion of something.

It goes beyond the safety of kids playing in the street. The older ones sometimes refuse to get out of the street when motorists need to pass through or they take their own sweet time. It really is not the same country that it once was.

MicheleD is clearly working with that nasty Community Associations Organization....oh wait how can I make such an unfounded claim which is vitually impossible to prove, and adds nothing to the discussion?

Because MicheleD does the same thing to JohnC when she says "You know what, I think I've figured out your agenda here. You are not on the board at all, that's a given. And my guess is that you don't even head some sort of official HOA "re-write" committee. You are a typical "disgruntled" homeowner who rails at the idea that CC&Rs can control what you can and can't do on your "own" property. You and a few others who probably got dinged by a violation or two have decided to try to take matters into your own hands and somehow get rid of the CC&Rs. Or at least make most of them impotent. "

RonW, Nice photos. Now I see why you are pro-HOA. Look at all those NASTY slummy HOMES that are next to the nice boats and trailers. (Humour intended)

Since we are so free to ass-u-me I'll bet you had a hand in comverting what was once a nice neighborhood into one of those old-folk kid-hater communities. Do you taser the little ones when they bounce a ball on the pavement?