💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

DaveM1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I want to know if there is anyone who has experience filing suit against a Leasing Agency who rented a house in our HOA to bad tenants. Our security and office staff spent many hours of time on these tenants who have now been evicted. I want to suit the Management Company for negligence to recover the cost of man hours spent by our security department and office staff. Any advice?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You have no right to sue the MC on this issue. The HOA has NO right to be involved in a Owner/Renter contract. The HOA does NOT have the right to evict tenants. Evicting bad tenants is the OWNER's responsibility. The HOA can INFORM the owner of the violations of the tenants but can't take any actions to evict. The MC works for the HOA BOD unless this is a MC controlled property like some condo's. The MC can only do what the HOA BOD request them to do.

Are you a board member or individual owner? An individual owner definetely has no right to sue the MC for failure of control on an owner's behalf. A board member can only be involved in the voting process for approving actions be taken against the owner if any. Most states don't allow for Fines to be the basis of liens or foreclosures, so fining isn't the answer in most cases.

The ONLY recourse the HOA truly has against an owner with bad tenants is IF the owner is NOT paying their dues. IF the owner is behind in their dues, the HOA can place a lien or foreclosure process. If the owner is up to date with their dues and special assessments, the HOA can ONLY inform the owner they have issue with their property.

I had bad tenants in my HOA home. The BOD had no right or power to kick them out. I had to go to court and get the paperwork completed. It took me 5 months to kick the person out of my home. Renters have rights too. They can legally stay in a house withOUT paying dues for over a year in some states. So you can't say the owner may not have been trying to kick a tenant out if it takes several months to do so. The least amount of time it could take in my state is 20-26 days. You have to give 2 10 days notices and they don't count holidays or weekends.

Sorry to say, but your HOA just has to eat the money it spent trying to kick these tenants out. They overstepped their bounds in some areas. Your even lucky you didn't get sued at this point. The renter could have claimed "harrassment" against the HOA. Next time, deal with the OWNER and send notices to them. If the owner cares about their property, they will take action. Just don't expect it to be quick. Here today, gone tomorrow is still illegal when it comes to renting.

Former HOA President
DaveM1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Thanks for the fast reply. I am a resident living near the rental property. It seems that the MC rented a property to a tenant who was not financially qualified to fulfill the entire 12 month rental contract. They did not move in with any furniture and were evicted 3 months later for non-payment of rent. In the interim, our security expended countless hours chasing the resident who was panhandling on the HOA property, annoying residents asking for rides, walking around the property intoxicated. All resulting in probably 30 or 40 "service calls" by our security in a 3 month period to address each incident. SAY a rental in our HOA averages about 2 security service calls a month. Why can't we sue the MC for negligence for all the man-hours responding to the security calls and time devoted to police actions. It is the man-hours over the average number that we are out, and the number of hours devoted to these particular tenants was significant. Isn't the MC responsible to QUALIFY a tenant in advance of signing a lease to make certain they can fulfill the terms of the lease. If a MC knowingly allows a portetial renter to sign a lease they know the renter can't pay for, that seems like negligence to me. Had that not occured, we never would have suffered our losses.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Dave, what negligence can you prove which justifies a suit? Are you sure the responsibility does not lie with the owner or the Board rather than the management company? I presume the Board terminated the MC for serious negligence which was knowingly done and violated the management agreement.
HaroldS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 314
Posted:
Good advice. Your contract is with the owner. Period. Does your documents give you the power to interfer with a tenant? Even then, everything you do must go thru the owner. You have no standing with the rental agency either. They would laugh at you. Again, it would be the owner who had the contract with the rental agency. If you were actively involved in evicting these tenants, I am surprised you were not sued. You might try collecting your costs from the owner, but unless your documents expressly give you this power, I doubt any court would rule in your favor. There have been many discussions here about controlling rentals. Do a search. Harold
DaveM1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 6
Posted:
The individual homeowner hired the Management Company in this case.
BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posted:
Then go after the owner.
Jadedone4 (Virginia)
Posts: 495
Posted:
Dave, I agree with the previous posters - the issue is with the owner of the unit, and the HOA. First, if the unit was allowed to have caused that level of disruption, without the board taking any corrective actions (to the owner), that is negligence in itself (to the other dues/assessment paying residents). First course of action should have been to bring the unit owner into compliance for whatever the additional manpower hours required. If owner failed to "control" his/her tenants, then fines to the unit owner were appropriate to address the additional manpower, or whatever corrective actions allowed under your governing documents. While some posters here will emphasize that the HOA has limited "powers" to manage a tenant situation, it does NOT preclude the board from taking corrective actions against the unit owner. As mentioned it is the board's responsibility to not allow situations such as this to infringe on other owner's ability to enjoy their property, nor should it allow additional community resources to be allocated to solve one unit's problem.
HaroldS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 314
Posted:
Is your security full time or do they respond when called? If full time, how can you justify charges? Do you charge others for security calls? For some of those incidents you described, why didn't you call the police? These are questions a judge would want answered. You should always use local authorities when possible - zoning, police, animal control, health dept, etc. Your quarrel is strictly with the owner. Harold
DaveM1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 6
Posted:
ANSWERS IN BOLD. Is your security full time or do they respond when called? FULL TIME. If full time, how can you justify charges? I'LL EXPLAIN. Do you charge others for security calls? NO. For some of those incidents you described, why didn't you call the police? WE DID ON MANY OCCAISIONS. WE USED OUR LIMITED POWERS TO ARREST AND DETAIN ALSO WHEN WARRANTS WERE ISSUED BY COUNTY POLICE FOR BAD CHECKS AND A VISIT FROM SOCIAL SERVICES FOR CHILD NEGLECT. These are questions a judge would want answered. You should always use local authorities when possible - zoning, police, animal control, health dept, etc. BEEN THERE DONE THAT. WE WORKED CLOSELY WITH LOCAL OFFICIALS FROM DAY 1. Your quarrel is strictly with the owner. I WANT TO BILL THE OWNER FOR ANYTHING ABOVE THE BASELINE AVERAGE OF TIME SPENT FOR OTHER RENTAL UNITS IN THE HOA BECAUSE THIS INCIDENT WAS SO EXCESSIVE. Probably send the bill to the owner. I AM ALSO ASKING FOR A STREET MEETING AND STAFF MEETING TO POST MORTEM THE CASE AND SEE WHAT RULES FAILED US, WHO LIED ON APPLICATIONS, WHO DID NOT CHECK REFERENCES, SALARIES, AND WHAT CAN BE DONE TO MAKE SURE THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN AGAIN. Harold
HaroldS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 314
Posted:
Good reply! But unless you already had existing rules in place to charge an owner for "...anything above the baseline average of time spent for other rental units..." I don't know how you could do that - especially in view of the fact your security is full time to begin with - so they earned their pay with these tenants from hell! Since it cost your HOA no more for these incidents, you are out of pocket nothing, and are not trying to recapture additional expenses, so actually what you are proposing is a fine. Does your fine structure cover this incident? You can't just make rules as you go. Harold
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
I agree with Harold, you incurred no additional costs because of this person, you didn't hire any additional staff to work the shift so I am not seeing what damages you have. As someone else pointed out unless there were documents stating that anything over X amount of calls results in a fine there is nothing that I can see that you can do.

However, you do have a good point, I would call a meeting and find out what went wrong in this situation. The person could have lied on their application and the owner didn't call references, or they could have lost a job, etc. I think that approach is good, you need to find out what happened and try to make sure it doesn't happen again. I would look at adopting your rules to make each security trip over x amount a fine. Police and fire do that with false alarms to people's homes.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
DaveM1: Is it possible your focus for the one to blame may be on the wrong person here. You say that you want to sue the Leasing Agency who rented a house to bad tenants who caused the security and office staff to spend hours and now they have been evicted.

The fault lies with the owner of the house who rented to an undesirable tenant. I don't know how a leasing agency got involved, but your only recourse to avoid this problem in the future is to ensure that the owner is monitoring his tenant--that the BOD is alerting the owner when/if the tenant is in violation against the CC&Rs, or is committing some other inappropriate action.

I agree with previous posters; you can't recoup cost for time spent by your security dept. and office staff who normally are on duty anyway. Unless the Management Company has it in their contract to monitor and ensure appropriate behavior from ALL community residents and tenants, it is not their responsibility. Their responsibility is to advise/counsel the Board as an Agent on behalf of the community association.

I find it interesting that you don't mention any action (or lack of?) on the Board's part in this situation. What was the process used to get the tenants evicted?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I agree with Brad and PaulM. If anyone does have the right to sue, it would be the owner of the home against the Management Company. It was the owner's property that was put at risk and damaged. Plus they were NOT paid the rent. The owner should have had an agreement with the MC to make sure the proper background checks were done if they were to make the MC responsible for managing the property. I am not sure in this situation the MC even had a right to evict the tenant on the owner's behalf. It would have to be in the contract between the owner and MC if they had that power.

What is your relation to this situaton? Just curious why you think it is your right to sue? Are you a board member or just a member upset over the situation? I don't see any real damages here. Sounds like Security was doing the job they were paid to do. That's to try to make the place secure and keeping the riff-raff under control. The MC did a poor job managing someone else's property on their behalf. I just wouldn't recommend this MC to do that for me or anyone else. So there's no real loss here except a bit of inconvenience and annoyance of a bad tenant.

Former HOA President
KathrynM (Louisiana)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I run into bad management companies all the time. They lease homes and then take no responsibility for the tenants actions. There are requirements you can make for leasing. Approval by Board of Directors is common in CCR's. Now may be a good time to look for some amendments dealing with renters. The HOA is still the Owner's Association though. I regularly impose fines against owners for bad management. They contract with their management and it is up to them to correct the tenant situation. Our restrictions allow (after sufficient notice of a problem and the opportunity for a hearing)fines of $10 per day or $50 per occurrence. The tenant is not responsible nor is the management company. it brings it all home that the owner is responsible for making sure the subdivisions restrictions are followed.
HaroldS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 314
Posted:
"I regularly impose fines against owners for bad management." Kathy - can you share the language in your CC&Rs that gives you control over rentals? I think most HOAs would dearly love to add such language to their CC&Rs. Thanks, Harold
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Due to changes in Ohio law Condominium Associations now have the right to evict problem tenants if the homeowner fails to act. And If the BOD fails to act to enforce any of the CC&R's, a homeowner may do so on their own and recover legal fees (see last paragraph)

D.To initiate eviction proceedings, pursuant to Chapters 5321 and 1923 of the Revised Code, to evict a tenant. The action shall be brought by the Association, as the Unit Owner’s Agent, in the name of the Unit Owner. In addition to any procedures required by Chapters 5321 and 1923 of the Revised Code, the Association shall give the Unit Owner at least ten days written notice of the intended eviction action. The costs of any eviction action, including
reasonable attorney’s fees, shall be charged to the Unit Owner and shall be the subject of a special assessment against the offending Unit and made a lien against that Unit.

P.Compliance with Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions. Every Unit Owner shall comply strictly with the covenants, conditions and restrictions set forth in this Declaration, with the By-Laws of the Association and with the Rules and Regulations in relation to the use and operation of the Condominium, the Units, the Common Elements and the other Condominium Property. Failure to comply with any of the same shall be grounds for an action to recover sums due, for damages, or injunctive relief of all of them, as provided by Section 5311.23 of the Ohio Revised Code. In any case of flagrant or repeated violation by a Unit Owner, he may be required by the Association to give sufficient surety or sureties for his future compliance with said covenants, conditions, restrictions, By-Laws, Rules and Regulations.

Violations of the covenants, conditions, or restrictions shall be grounds for the Association or any Unit Owner to commence a civil action for damages, injunctive relief, or both, and an award of court costs and reasonable attorney's fees in both types of action. Any and all expenses incurred by the Association in enforcing any of the terms and provisions of the condominium instruments, including reasonable attorneys’ fees to the extent permitted by Ohio law, may be levied as a special assessment against the Unit Owner in question and his or her Unit.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
SusanR3 (Arizona)
Posts: 1
Posted:
Instead of filing suit against the property manager, may I suggest charging back the owner for the violation enforcement. Check your documents, most C C and R's have a provision that would address that. Law suits are expensive and not very satifying. The lawyers are the only parties guaranteed success.

Good luck

Susan Rubin
PRM Association Management

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here