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JohnD59 (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Hi,

Background on our community:
About 500 homes, fully built out, association under homeowner control.
Original developer promised a community pool and there is a recreation reserve set aside but he went bankrupt before anything was ever built. Remaining lots were sold off by bank to other homebuilders so it's all built.

Dues are artificially low (developer slashed the dues to prevent revolt after not building amenities a few years before the banks foreclosed on him.

Association is in decent financial shape. We might be able to collect a little more if we delivered the original amenitiy set, but honestly, at this point, that's 15 years in the rear view mirror, and the majority of homeowners now have no idea what was originally promised. We're currently rebuilding the fence along the main road (a $150K project that we were able to pay for out of operating funds) so we're functioning pretty well as an association.

But we have this land and we have residents who would like us to do something about it...

So, associations who have built out clubhouses and pools on their own, what questions should I be asking? What's a good ballpark number to build out a clubhouse that could do a 50 person function? What's a good ballpark number to construct a pool?

I'm not really fond of a pool project (everyone wants one, nobody wants to pay for it). But a clubhouse or splash pad would be a nice addition to the community. We have a playground already that could use some sprucing up. But some feedback about your experiences would help.

Thanks.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,046
Posted:
Has your Association done a Reserve Study to find out if it really is in good shape or not?

I strongly suspect any Association that pays for new amenities (yes the fence is an amenity) with operating funds. This means that either the assessments are set to high or the Association isn't fully funding the Reserves.

For more info on Reserves, see:

http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/103517/view/topic/Default.aspx
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Replacing/updating an existing amenity is one issue and is usually covered Reserves though one could argue how much of an update is allowed before it is new. Adding a new amenity, regardless of long ago promised by the developer and never delivered, falls under Capital Improvements and a whole different budgeting issue.

My initial blush is adding a new pool falls under Capital Improvements and may well require owner approval.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
HOAs often go after the developer before, during and after turnover to get him to live up to his obligations, e.g. building promised amenities. But bankruptcy is the ultimate escape hatch for them and unless the obligation survived the bankruptcy then he's probably off the hook completely. I agree with the previous posters. If the HOA now wants to build some of those amenities that the developer never got around to doing then that amounts to new capital improvements which should not be funded from the operating budget.

FYI our clubhouse holds about 60. It's 56 ft square on the outside, has a few rooms, a kitchen, a meeting room, restrooms, a couple of storage closets, a nice wraparound porch on one side and in the back and has a 40' vaulted ceiling. It's very nice but we use it only for meetings. I've been thinking about proposing that we raze it and put up something a little less termite-friendly. It was built by the original developer 27 years ago at a cost of around $400,000 if the minutes of a board meeting from back then are to be believed.

We have a 20 by 40 ft pool surrounded by a 30 ft. pool deck/apron. I have no idea about the cost of that, then or now.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You have to decide what the benefit of the amenity is for. Typically amenities are "sales tools" used by the developer/builder to attract potential buyers. That is why they put in pools, clubhouses, tennis courts, or other attractive amenity options. Their cost for these items are up front one time installation costs. Which is the lowest of the costs of an amenity. The "real" expense of an amenity is it's long term maintenance/replacement/expansion costs.

Considering your HOA is already built out and owner controlled, the benefit may not be from the attraction of potential buyers. It's going to be the actual use and/or need of the amenity. Is it something the members want? Is it something that will help attract potential buyers by having it?

You all will need to weigh out what works best. A pool is a double edge sword and usually does not add value to a home. A clubhouse may be beneficial due to the ability to hold meetings and people able to rent it out. Our homes are so small that the clubhouse allowed one to have a party with more guests.

The expenses for these amenities also have many hidden costs. Have to factor in insurance coverages. There may be taxes for structures. A clubhouse would need electricity and water. Those bills can be difficult to average. Initial costs are the least of your worries. It will be the long term expenses that will get you.

Former HOA President
JohnD59 (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Adding a new amenity, regardless of long ago promised by the developer and never delivered, falls under Capital Improvements and a whole different budgeting issue.


I am aware that building something on either the park land or the rec reserve is a CapEx project. The request was for ballpark numbers to have in the back of our heads when we set up a CapEx budget.

Reserve funds are a different issue. Reserves do not equal CapEx. They're a separate bank account for us.

The developer is gone. We can't get anything out of him. We couldn't get anything out of him while he was still around. But homeowners want to see that their dues are going to good use. For us, that means upgrading the landscaping, keeping the playground maintained, building monument signs, and now replacing a fence that had become an eyesore.

But the next step is to make a capital improvement or two. It might not happen right away. But we would be wise to plan ahead.
JohnD59 (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/25/2017 8:25 PM

Considering your HOA is already built out and owner controlled, the benefit may not be from the attraction of potential buyers. It's going to be the actual use and/or need of the amenity. Is it something the members want? Is it something that will help attract potential buyers by having it?

You all will need to weigh out what works best. A pool is a double edge sword and usually does not add value to a home. A clubhouse may be beneficial due to the ability to hold meetings and people able to rent it out. Our homes are so small that the clubhouse allowed one to have a party with more guests.

The expenses for these amenities also have many hidden costs. Have to factor in insurance coverages. There may be taxes for structures. A clubhouse would need electricity and water. Those bills can be difficult to average. Initial costs are the least of your worries. It will be the long term expenses that will get you.

Preach.

The development next to us at one point offered to offer our homeowners pool tags if we would split the pool's operating costs with them. We couldn't get enough buy-in from the community to fund it at the time (they seem to think that selling pool tags would fund that on its own... the pool tags would cost more than the annual dues if we did it that way) If we could ever get them to make that offer again now that we are in a better financial place it would be the best way to offer homeowners that perk.

There's a fantasy out there that we can just offer amenities and only the people interested in using them would have to pay for them. Reality: stuff costs everyone money.

But people also think that clubhouses just magically fund themselves (or somehow make money) from the fees you get from renting the place out. But I don't see how you could pay the bills, maintain, and insure the place for whatever pittance you might get from hosting a handful of birthday parties and people watching football a few weeks of the year. At best you might get a church renting out the room weekly if it's big enough, but that would be an expensive room to build, heat, and cool.

Developers can build into the lot price the cost of building amenities. When you come in after the lots are sold, you don't have that subsidy. So yeah, I'm not exactly chomping at the bit to build anything. But I owe it to the community to look into what things might cost and let them see that if they want x, y, or z it's going to cost everyone something. Projects are not self funding, nor are they funded by use fees alone.
JohnD59 (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/25/2017 4:49 PM
Replacing/updating an existing amenity is one issue and is usually covered Reserves though one could argue how much of an update is allowed before it is new. Adding a new amenity, regardless of long ago promised by the developer and never delivered, falls under Capital Improvements and a whole different budgeting issue.

My initial blush is adding a new pool falls under Capital Improvements and may well require owner approval.


I'm not saying this to be snarky, I'm just trying to make it clear to anyone reading what I say and thinking to themselves, wow, we can't do what that guy is doing...

YOUR RULES MAY BE (OR ARE) DIFFERENT FROM MINE.

We operate under the Texas Property Code and the bylaws of our association (which were crafted to comply with said code).

We can take on new capital improvements with a majority vote of the board, but we must hold an open meeting with at least 72 hours notice to the homeowners when we do it. (There are 15 things that trigger an open board meeting under Texas law; new capital improvements falls under that).

Our board can opt to repair, replace, and enhance and existing capital improvement without calling an open meeting and providing 72 hours notice, but it has to summarize what it did at the next open board meeting. In our case, we discussed the project and bids with homeowners twice at meetings and made the final decision between meetings; we'll ratify the decision at the next open board meeting.

About the only thing we need to get a majority vote of the entire membership on is raising the dues more than 10%. If we don't raise the dues more than 10%, the only thing that homeowners ever vote on directly in our association is electing the board members.

Your bylaws and state laws will vary. Get to know your bylaws and the laws that regulate your HOA. It's okay to Google stuff, but don't substitute that for proper legal counsel in your state and county.

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