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RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122
Posted:
We have a unit owner who is constantly delinquent. This time, he's almost 5 months past due. We're a new board, so this is new to us. I know we can put a lien on his property, but that doesn't put the money in our pocket right now. Our by-laws have a provision regarding "involuntary sale" which, by the looks of it, allows the association the right to revoke all of the owner's rights to occupy or control their property. I was amazed to see that in there and, quite honestly, it seems like it would never hold up in court.

Bottom line: We want to collect what's due from this owner by any means necessary and allowable by law. What are our options?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,044
Posted:
Ron,

The involuntary sale is likely referring to foreclosure of the lien.

As for how you collect, the answer is that you follow your collection policy.

Ours is:

30 day letter sent via first class mail
60 day letter sent via first class mail
90 day letter sent via certified mail
120 day letter sent via first class mail and A notice of agenda item for turning collections over to attorney.

Within 3 days after a the Board meeting, Results of hearing letter sent via certified and first class mail. This results letter gives the owner one last chance to pay in full and states that failure to pay in full will result on mm/dd/yyyy (typically the first of the following month) in having the issue being sent to the attorney for escalated collection efforts, liens, and any other remedy authorized under the law. It also informs the owner that, per our governing documents (citation provided) they are responsible for all costs of collection (including legal expenses).

In the last 5 years of being on the Board, we have never had to actually send the issue to the attorney as this last letter tends to get results. Like you, we have a few who play the game and the process has to be repeated a couple of times throughout the year. Matter of fact, we had to do this twice last year for one lot and the board will be discussing the same lot again this year. It's frustrating, to have to repeat the process over and over. However, the key is to have a specific procedure in place and follow it.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,961
Posted:
As people can tell you all over this site, suing someone is easy - getting paid is another matter. Some homeowners try to hold off the association by filing bankruptcy (sometimes several times) because bankruptcy stops all collection activity until the court sorts it out). Others may realize you're serious when they get a court summons and contact you to negotiate a payment plan.

If you win your lawsuit, you could ask to garnish the homeowner's wages or force a sale of other assets, such as a car (if you know where they are), but there are pros and cons to that too - and when it gets to the collection stage, you may need a lawyer who knows how to navigate all that.

In our community, we start with a lawsuit against the homeowner and file liens when previous legal action doesn't work. We can pursue foreclosure 90 days after the lien is filed, but even if you wind up with the house, that doesn't necessarily "put money" in your pocket.

In fact, association foreclosures take time, are expensive, and because the mortgage company's lien supersedes yours, it'll have first dibs on any proceeds from the sale of the home - you get what's left, if there is anything. More often than not, you'll get nothing - but at least you'll be rid of the deadbeat, opening the door to a new owner who will pay on time.

So, start with a lawsuit, but remember you may end up having to file the lien anyway. Depending on how much is owed and the small claims court rules in your area, you may be able to go that route and not need a lawyer. I suggest, however, you talk things over with the Association attorney so you'll know your options and how far you're willing to go. Good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Great advice Sheila but I would skip the lawsuit step. It is unnecessary and waste money. A lien and a lawsuitis similar anyways. They are both court judgements. A lien would be preferable. It will not allow an owner to sell until they pay what is owed and accumulates over time. A lawsuit does not accummulate and the owner can sell without ever paying a dime. It is basically a big IOU you have to chase down to collect.

There is also the factors in a lawsuit that if you do take for example their car. If that car is worth 10k and they owe 5k, the HOA has to give the difference back to the owner. It is not like you can just sell it for what is owed. The HOA can not keep a profit and does not make sense to undersell.

The other major factor in lawsuits is that no one is required to give out their social security number. Which means that does not effect one credit if it can not be reported. Plus one needs to know where they work to garnish. Which this process does cost money to pursue. The lawsuit is against the address in the HOA so if they live somewhere else may not be available.

I do not believe in HOAs filing lawsuits but no problem with them filing a counter lawsuit. It is cheaper and can be filed for any damages the HOA has. Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. A HOA suing is all the owners suing a member. Not all may agree to it and not like spendin dues money on this. Plus any lawsuits filed by a member or HOA has to be reported on the HUD form. Plus members may have to reveal this to potential buyers. Liens are just reported on the HUD but not to potential buyers if they not the one with a lien.

So skip the lawsuit step and go for the lien. Have a deadline setup. We have a 6 month we lien policy. After a. year we consider foreclosure. Foreclosure is a stop the bkleeding step and NOT a money maker oportnity. We did not pay much to do ours. It was around $800

Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,961
Posted:
Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree on the lawsuit. You’re right in that it can be a waste of time and money with some people, but by the time I stepped down as Board treasurer it became clear that we needed to drive home the point that if one didn’t pay assessments, bad things would happen and it wouldn’t end well.

Or notify the property manager when you have a financial hiccup (or several) so the Board can negotiate a payment plan before the account gets sent up to the attorney.

OR let the attorney know what’s happening when he sends a demand letter before filing the papers (better to pay attorney’s fees for a few phone calls and letters, than phone calls, letters and court costs on top of the collection costs, delinquent fees and late fees that sent you up in the first place.)

(By the way, our board voted to adopt your community’s policy of filing a lien after 6 months! of delinquency. We can pursue foreclosure 90 days after that, but we’re hoping somewhere within that 9 month timespan, something will happen that results in payment).

Back to lawsuits – one has to start somewhere and if there’s a chance a lawsuit gets the money sooner, I prefer doing that. I also want a judgment in place just in case something weird happens and the homeowner somehow comes into money or something else we can attach.

Example: we had one case where the homeowner fell behind and she was sued. During the hearing, our attorney learned it happened in part because she’d gotten injured and had to sue the electric company after a power line pole smashed her car (really!). I don’t know why she didn’t tell our property manager this before we sent up her file or the attorney when he sent out the demand letter before suing her (thus avoiding the lawsuit), but our attorney then attached the eventual settlement and we got our money when the company settled.

After we win our lawsuits, they’re followed by another hearing where the homeowner has to disclose his/her income and other liabilities. The judge and lawyers hash out settlements from there, and for things like garnishments, we need a judgment before we can pursue that route. Sometimes people are more spooked by lawsuits as opposed to a foreclosure (maybe because the former happens a lot sooner).

So, you need to have a number of options available and talk to your attorney about which ones make the most sense and have the best chance of getting your money.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I will not say that a lawsuit should not pursued as in some states your method of collection is the way it is done. Just realize you are VERY lucky for a response and pay back. Considering a smart owner would know they could simply walk away, sell the property. And most likely never pay a dime. A lawsuit is just too risky. Plus since boards change so often lawsuit judgements have to be pursued and can expire after 7 years. Who is going to remember to do it? Plus if owner no longer there?

What I wanted to add is seeking your lawyer advice. If you get a lawyer who tells you "I will do whatever you tell me to do" is most likely not telling you your best options. If they do not tell you the information BOTH of us posted, then consider changing lawyers.

No matter if you are pro lawsuit or not, you need to understand the options. Plus the pros and cons. Each situation is different and the solution may vary. Like you said lawsuit works for some. If you think this person would respond to lawsuit then consider it. If your dealing with investor type owners or those you think will run, lien is good idea. Just be careful as people may question why 2 different methods. It may come off as unfair. However, it is already unfair them not paying.

I have done a foreclosure. One can not foreclose on active members of the military. You can not foreclose forunpaid fines. A foreclosure stops as soon as the debt is paid. Most states have a right of redemption up to a year of the foreclosure. That means the original owner can come back and pay off the debt to get the home back. If any improvements made, then that expense can be lost or the old owner has to pay for them. So can not touch the property for a year during this. Plus HOA foreclosure is doing the work of the bank and gets paid 2nd.

Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Mel said:

No matter if you are pro lawsuit or not, you need to understand the options. Plus the pros and cons. Each situation is different and the solution may vary. Like you said lawsuit works for some. If you think this person would respond to lawsuit then consider it. If your dealing with investor type owners or those you think will run, lien is good idea. Just be careful as people may question why 2 different methods. It may come off as unfair. However, it is already unfair them not paying.

I agree.

I would add that some things are just not worth pursuing even when one is right.

TinaS9 (Florida)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Send him to a collection agent? If he has decent credit he might want to save it by paying up with the threat of a past due report on his credit. Just a thought.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,044
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 06/25/2014 9:09 AM

The other major factor in lawsuits is that no one is required to give out their social security number. Which means that does not effect one credit if it can not be reported.

One does not need a social security number to report info to the credit agencies.
It just makes the reporting easier.

Here is more info on that:

Information About Credit Reporting without a SSN by bills.com

Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 06/25/2014 9:09 AM

Plus one needs to know where they work to garnish. Which this process does cost money to pursue.

The cost of which, would be added to the cost of collection

Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 06/25/2014 9:09 AM

The lawsuit is against the address in the HOA so if they live somewhere else may not be available.

Actually, this is incorrect.

A lien is against the property address.
A lawsuit is against the individual(s) who own the property. If a judgement is obtained via a lawsuit, the plaintiff can ask the court for an order to lien any other property the defendant may own. If the property happens to be in another State, additional work may be required.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Tim don't confuse Melissa with facts.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Ron you should have a collection policy and be following it. If you get to the foreclosure stage, Ohio has an interesting wrinkle that may help you. After the HOA files for foreclosure, you can ask the court to appoint a receiver and collect rent from the owner while you wait.

5311.18 Lien for common expenses.

(B)

(2) In a foreclosure action a unit owners association commences pursuant to division (B)(1) of this section or a foreclosure action the holder of a first mortgage or other lien on a unit commences, the owner of the unit, as the defendant in the action, shall be required to pay a reasonable rental for the unit during the pendency of the action . The unit owners association or the holder of the lien is entitled to the appointment of a receiver to collect the rental. Each rental payment a receiver collects during the pendency of the foreclosure action shall be applied first to the payment of the portion of the common expenses chargeable to the unit during the foreclosure action.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Fine reply, Glen. I was hoping you'd show up some, uh, facts. Like your reply too, Tim, and Sheila's.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
We got a court order for the Sheriff to sell the delinquent homeowner's vehicle. He paid. Cost him an extra $900 (our expenses).

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 07/05/2014 9:51 PM
We got a court order for the Sheriff to sell the delinquent homeowner's vehicle. He paid. Cost him an extra $900 (our expenses).

Could you please explain how this was done.

Thanks
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Under our docs and PA law, we can both go against the RE and against the HO's personal property. Your docs and state law may be different.

How we did it:
1. We got a personal judgment for the delinquency against the HO from the courts. The HO didn't show up at the hearing so we won by default. The award was for the full balance due plus our legal and other costs.
2. We filed with the Sheriff to execute against the vehicle.
3. The Sheriff listed the vehicle for sale just like she would in a RE foreclosure. The difference is that all the HO protections on RE didn't stand in our way.
4. The HO paid the full amount of the judgment because he couldn't afford to be without his vehicle.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
ChrisP5 (Missouri)
Posts: 165
Posted:
As Glen said above if you don't have a collection policy adopt one and follow it. I suggested our board adopt a policy several years ago after reading some great advice on this site. It has made out board meetings more efficient as we no longer have to discuss which properties are being sent to the attorney, etc. it allows our MC to take appropriate steps when certain day thresholds are hit. At meetings we get updates on any pending cases that are in the courts and if anyone is proposing a payment plan.

Our collection policy is

10 day - late fee applied per by laws
15 days - notice
45 days - second notice
60 days - demand letter from attorney (this step almost always generates payments)
90 days - file lawsuit for collections.

We have over 200 units and typically have 2-3 units that end up at the 90 day stage each year because they refuse to work with us for any type of payment plan to get them back to current. We often find the same individuals end up at the demand letter / lawsuit stage every couple of years. We collect all of the attorney and court fees incurred by the association as part of the collections process. We have only had 2-3 owners file bankruptcy in the past several years that we were unable to collect from.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
FYI

We have tried several ways to collect back dues in that we talk to people, try and arrange payment plans, waive late fees ,etc. but it gets to a point where they ignore us or do not honor their promises. We felt that by this time we had no "weight" with them so we needed an alternative with more teeth in it.

We use a real estate law firm that has a division within it that specializes in owner associations. They use a multi step process to collect. To the best of my recollection it works like this:

1. Our first attempts are to collect any owed money ourselves so after 30 and 60 days late, we send polite letters from the HOA even offering to make payment arrangements.

In the next quarterly bill, the HOA sends notice reminding the owner they are 90 days late and asks for back and present dues or a payment schedule acceptable to the HOA within 30 days or we will turn the account over to a law firm for collection. It is now almost 150 days since we have seen a payment. If no arrangements are made, we send it on to the law firm.

2. The law firm sends a letter informing the homeowner that they have received the case and are prepared to file a lien and commence to foreclose unless owed dues are paid and/or a payment schedule is arranged with the HOA within 30 days. The firm charges the HOA $65.00 for this letter.

The law/collection firm then backs off and awaits further notification from the BOD. It is now back in the BOD's lap. The BOD then tries once again to reach an agreement. In several cases the letter from the lawyers was enough for owners to make arrangements to pay. If no arrangements are made we turn it back over to the law/collection firm again. We control the timing of when we turn it back over to the law firm.

3. Law/collection firm sends a letter saying a lien has been filed (which it has) and foreclosure has commenced. It will now cost the homeowner $495.00 (to the law firm) plus owed dues to the HOA to stop the process. There is no charge to the HOA but the homeowner must pay the $495.00 to the law firm and back dues to the HOA to be current.

4. If no response within 60 days, the law/collection firm files some paperwork with the court about foreclosure and notifies the homeowner that foreclosure has begun and it will cost $995.00 (to the law firm) plus back dues to the HOA to stop the process.

5. The next step would be the HOA pays the law firm $400.00 and foreclosure commences. The process is completely stoppable at this point by the HOA, the HOA would still have a lien, and the law/collection firm is owed $995.00

We do not want to be in the real estate business and we have no desire to foreclose. I am not saying all should not foreclose but our decision is not to and as such, we have not gone past Step 3. I advise we never do.

Hope this helps.

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