Board Using Funds to Pay Members Legal Fees AGAIN

ChrisA13 (New Jersey)
Posts: 120

Posted:

I'm suing my association and two members who are on the Board. But they are being sued as individuals who acted in a manner outside their role as trustees. They have not been indemnified, but the association is picking up their tab. That is embezzlement. At the same time, I'm suing the law firm for placing an invalid lien on my home since the record are not accurate (thanks to the Board and particularly one guy that I'm suing personally for the SECOND time). And guess what? My association paid for THE DEFENSE COST OF THEIR LAW FIRM.

While all this is going on, they are demanding (by lien and countersuit) money for "maintenance fees." I will not pay for money that is not being collected for the purposes intended. I will not support a criminal enterprise. They got their judgment, but it is now being appealed and my argument as to the legality of extorting homeowners for money that is not being used as "maintenance fees" is one I cannot wait for the court to consider.

If a board fails in its duty to maintain the books, exempt themselves, give themselves financial perks not permitted, pay for legal fees not permitted and then demand I pay for it all as a "maintenance" fee -- I refuse. And all attempts, including legal action, to collect is extortion because they KNOW they are seeking to collect "maintenance" fees but money that they can misuse.

Check out my youtube channel. You'll see the results of my win from the first law suit. I'm now in round two...because they never stop violating the law.

And no one in the State of New Jersey will make them... The lawyers are behind all this and no one will stop a lawyer in this state.

www.youtube.com/okvowner

www.okvnews.com -- letters of demand to lawyers are posted there

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Chris,

Welcome to the forum.
I do suggest that you review the forums posting rules.

Expecting that your Association is incorporated as a nonprofit, most are, the New Jersey Nonprofit Corporation Act would apply. Per NJ 15A:3-4 of that act:

d. Any corporation shall indemnify a corporate agent against expenses to the extent that the corporate agent has been successful on the merits or otherwise in any proceeding referred to in subsections b. and c. of this section or in defense of any claim, issue or matter therein.

It is also typical for governing documents and/or COA/HOA statutes to automatically indemnify volunteer Directors and Officers of the Association.

Since the Association is paying the legal expenses, you, as a member, will of course be responsible for your share of those expenses. Hopefully the Associations D&O insurance will cover the costs. If not, then the membership will (perhaps with a special assessment). Either way, I would expect the Associations cost for insurance to increase.

I haven't bothered to check out the links you provided.
Since you have made your decision and have already taken legal action against your Association I don't know what advice I could offer. Since I don't live in your Association or plan on moving to NJ and the case likely won't affect me, I'm simply not interested in the details.

I'm glad your case was ruled in your favor. I'm sorry you had to resolve your issues through the courts. Hopefully the unintended consequences of the legal action (increased insurance costs, possible special assessments to pay the Associations legal fees, potential buyers possibly shying away from purchasing in the development, likely fewer individuals willing to volunteer to serve, etc.) won't be unmanageable.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Chris,

Curiosity got the better of me and I did look at your site.

The first thing I noticed is that even though you claim transparency, you don't have copies of the court filings, court rulings, etc. Although I see copies of letters you sent to various entities, you provide no copies of their response.

Just an observation.

Tim

MissyP (Alabama)
Posts: 63

Posted:

Does suing yourself and your neighbors sound familiar? Just sayin... (Just can't give that advice enough can I?)

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

http://www.nj.com/hunterdon-county-democrat/index.ssf/2013/11/homeowner_acting_as_her_own_la.html

ChrisA13 (New Jersey)
Posts: 120

Posted:

The Board only has a right to pay for indemnification when it's been APPROVED. The two members who are being sued as individuals as well as trustees on the Board. They were sued as entities in their own right for things they did in their own right and the association is denying them indemnification in their cross-claim. As individuals, my neighbors' should not being picking up their legal expenses. And I certainly do not want to do so.

Without question, these two are SUING my corporation in a cross-claim for indemnification and have not been awarded the right to have such indemnification for their actions. NO ONE but the two of them should be paying for their legal expenses to defend their own actions. If they didn't "share" counsel with the association, they would realize that their are consequences to their actions. And would be paying through the nose to defend themselves (as they should). But like another trustee who committed assault and went to criminal court, the association picked up that guy's legal defense tab and all his fines after he plead guilty to a crime. That's a fact.

Nowhere in the law does it state I have to pay for these kinds of expenses. Governing documents and the law are clear on what is a "maintenance fee" and everything and "the kitchen sink" that they chose to spend for whatever purposes is not a maintenance fee. If it's not for the corporation's purposes and benefit, it's theft.

As per records, the record of the latest event is the full one minute recording of the vote taken by the "board of trustees" which gives access to a third party on my land. A one minute vote to "ratify" a decision made in secret by email. They didn't vote for a contract, there are no terms, no documents have been distributed. This doesn't protect MY INTERESTS in the common elements. I am not a tenant, I am an owner. They are not my bosses, they are trustees. Much like Madoff, you can't just seize the money, seize power, hide records and "cook the books" -- and then claim that you are acting good faith and ask those who did business with you to honor any contract. A contract goes two ways.

Five people run this whole corporation. No committees, no votes on anything from the owners, no disclosure of the financials ever. This is not a representative board acting in our best interests - at all. And I will protect MY INTERESTS if that requires legal action to do so.

ChrisA13 (New Jersey)
Posts: 120

Posted:

Missy, no one wants to sue. This is not an entertaining adventure nor is it cheap. And I am fighting for 216 people on certain issues -- not just myself. But what else can be done? I can't sit by and just let my house rot with mold (first lawsuit), have them not honor a settlement (back to court with OTSC), and harass me with vicious emails, comments about "monitoring my activities" meetings, threatening me, walking into my home uninvited and giving my land away to third parties that serve this association no purpose.

They wanted this. They got it. But I will do everything I can to see that those two parties who have reaped the financial gain of legal counsel from my corp. improperly are forced to pay EVERY DIME BACK to the association.

It's time the court's see the side of the owners, not the corporation. Case law favors the corporations too much. It's time to take this to the "front lines" and go as far as this needs to go to restore some transparency and accountability. This is not a "coffee club." This is a corporation. And this is MY INVESTMENT. I would never sit by as Madoff robbed from me. I won't sit by on this either.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ChrisA13 on 02/04/2014 7:33 AM

The Board only has a right to pay for indemnification when it's been APPROVED.

Approved by whom? Who is the approving authority.

Bear in mind that I do not know NJ statutes or your governing documents.
What may be common knowledge to you is not necessarily common knowledge to me or others.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 02/04/2014 7:50 AM

Posted By ChrisA13 on 02/04/2014 7:33 AM

The Board only has a right to pay for indemnification when it's been APPROVED.

Approved by whom? Who is the approving authority.

Disregard my last question. It was answered earlier in the thread.

I don't understand all the details and, if Jon's link to the story is about the same issue, I get the impression I never will understand all the issues.

Chris,

I do indeed wish you luck.

Tim

ChrisA13 (New Jersey)
Posts: 120

Posted:

Thanks, Tim.

It's been six years of this and the same "bullies" at the helm. They hold secret votes, secret meetings, withhold records, have private lunches with our Merryl Lynch advisors (whose names are never disclosed), deal with the accountant in private meetings, have deals arranged at their private business offices...

The power is too one-sided.

I won't answer your question, because you said you didn't need the answer. But, like in my last two legal battles, I'm right and I will eventually win this -- even if I have to take this outside this corrupt state.

I just hope that board members realize that people put their faith in their "good faith" and business judgment rule. When/if you act like rogue bullies, sometimes people fight back. And fight back hard.

And now that I'm in this... I have absolutely no intention of walking away until I see those "trustees" in front of a jury to answer for their conduct. I'm not a fan of bullies and thieves. And it's amazing that two people who are suing my corporation for indemnification are STILL ON THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES. Conflict of interest? Yeah....

Again -- thank you.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Chris,

I have represented myself in courts for close to 40 years. You are correct that judges do not like pro pers but not for the reasons you give. Those who represent themselves are usually not acquainted with the rules of court and do little or no research into the laws that govern the situation. They often come into court with nothing more than a messianic belief that the court will see the righteousness of their cause despite centuries of common law and statutes to the contrary.

If I understand the situation, you purchased a condo on property subject to an easement for a pipeline. When construction on the pipeline began, you claimed your association had no right to allow it. Since that time you have filed one irrational lawsuit after another and have not prevailed on any of the issues. Because the association must hire attorneys to defend themselves, you have buried them under a mountain of expenses and you insisted that you will not pay your assessments.

There is little doubt that we will hear your wails of distress when your association forecloses on your condo for non-payment of assessments.

ChrisA13 (New Jersey)
Posts: 120

Posted:

Clearly, you are must be an attorney and making a case that doesn't exist. The pipeline easement was on county property. I was not fighting that. I had no rights to fight that.

I was fighting the construction area given to a multibillion dollar corporation to use my land without the need to do so to protect my rights, home, land and ensure that my investment was safe. And I have that right in the law.

The courts are clearly on the side of corporations and lawyers. But case law has established that the board must act to protect my interest. And I am an equal owner of this land who has given no consent for this trespass and destruction that has taken place (nowhere near where either the board members or LAWYERS live). If someone wanted to take a piece of your property without consent, you would do EXACTLY the same to protect it. But again -- you don't know the facts or the situation. I do. I have done my research. And the fact is that the law states I own the land and the board must protect my interest in it -- not put me in harm's way or make unrecorded easements by way of a vote that was not put on any agenda or created by way of any valid contract. It's my land.

I could care less about "wails of distress" -- but thanks for cheering on my future foreclosure. They didn't think I'd figure out how to appeal either... but I did. And it all comes down to the records. Just because a board says something doesn't make it so. They are the plaintiff and they have to prove their case.

The FDCPA (federal law) protects me in this matter as well...despite the fact that the CAI lawyers have tried (and failed) to argue against maintenance fees being covered under the FDCPA -- which they are.

Board Members lie and steal as do their FDCPA debt collector attorneys. Read the news. Instead of looking forward to my foreclosure, I look forward to people being arrested...based on the records I have (not my feelings on the matter).

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

ChrisA13, you seem to be spending an awful lot of time on this condo, which is in pretty bad shape. Ever thought of moving and living a simpler life? After watching those videos, I'd just leave. The place is old, not maintained and no plans to fix that fact.

ChrisA13 (New Jersey)
Posts: 120

Posted:

Actually, the place is totally fixed now due to lawsuit #1. For obvious reasons, I could not sell it or rent it in the condition they caused the structure and my unit through the TOTAL NEGLIGENCE on the part of the Board. (A point that seems to keep getting lost in the midst of the issue of "Why are you suing us?").

For years, they let my home rot. I had to sue. I can't disclose the details, but the place had to get fixed and my case was designed to make sure it was NOT FIXED BY THEM. They had years of opportunity and failed with all their games.

Then, they didn't honor the settlement. I had to take them back to court. I won that and the court ordered they comply with the settlement. (More legal games for no reason other than vengeance... and again I prevailed.)

Now my building and all the damage to inside my unit is resolved. But then they go and make decision to destroy the land around my home, causing another set of problems for me. I understand the "move" issue and can consider it now... but the bigger issue is how is this permitted to happen?

I'm not foreign to homes. I'll leave it at that. And no home that I've been personally connected with has ever been allowed to fall into such disrepair. But since I couldn't fix it, I had to wait and rot. And I wouldn't dare pass the problem/rot off to another owner. That isn't right. That isn't moral.

The real issue is why are the lawyers allowed to cause legal havoc and not ensure the safety of the common elements on behalf of the corporation by dictate to the board, if necessary, or by court action against the board rather than come up with ridiculous litigation claims to avoid a duty owed? How many more owners will suffer as a result of these legal games and known negligence?

Believe me, this is not my doing. But I will not back away from bullies -- whether they be board members, lawyers, anyone.

It's exhausting. But it has to be done. Too many people are victimized by this serfdom that has been created by the lawyers and the boards. Enough is enough.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Chris is well known in that part of NJ.

ChrisA13 (New Jersey)
Posts: 120

Posted:

And if I am well known... so be it. NJ is well known for corruption. So what? And COA are known to be filled with corruption, just look at the articles posted from every state in the nation of arrests.

But I guess I shouldn't be "known" and we should all just sit quietly by and take it.

Only lawyers should have the power and right to bring forth suits, scare people, destroy lives, abuse the system and reap rewards for doing so. Some dumb gal like me couldn't possible figure out how to read case law. And how dare I try, right? It's funny how lawyers don't like it when they get a taste of their own. And board members, too. Oh well... I'm known? I haven't even begun to fight, JohnC46.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Chris:

As none of us can know the details of your particular situation besides what you have provided I prefer not to address who is right and who is wrong.

But in reading your posts at some points they began to ring with the sound of someone unable to hear any other voices but their own.

So you have been going at this for six years. And your victories to date make the effort worthwhile in your mind?

Coming to this site and what I might refer to as ranting, accomplishes litle if anything really. Besides a chance for you to preach to strangers how the world, accroding to you, operates in error.

Now Dr. Phil asks a question when people sometimes become so vested in their beleifs of right and wrong they are blind to the big picture. And while I understand some might shy away from out of the box thinking I will pose that question to you.

After six years and who knows how many more, "Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?"

Is this battle life and death? Hardly.

And if after 5 or six or more years you win what then?

In life you have to pick your battles and decide which ar worth fighting and which are not. And after six years you must have the ability to evaluate if the road you are on serves YOUR best interests.

If not keep fighing, keep trying to prove some point which more than likely matters very litle to anyone but yourself. Is that worth six years of YOUR life to prove some point?

What I think or what the others on this site think doesn't matter in the least. Wasting your time trying to convince any of us is worthless IMO. But perhaps it gives you what you need a soap box from which to preach.

I admire people who stand up for themselves. I feel sorry for people who can't give up their crusade despite there never being able to WIN.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

I'm all for fighting against dysfunctional boards/officers too. But 6 years of fighting, court, etc... I'd just throw in the towel. If the members of the HOA cant see the issues these people have caused and choose to replace them, there is no hope.

Life is just too short to fight for this long.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ChrisA13 on 02/04/2014 1:12 PM

NJ is well known for corruption. And COA are known to be filled with corruption

Then why would anyone buy a condo in NJ? By your own admission, you knew the whole situation was corrupt yet you went ahead and purchased a condo unit anyway. Seems to me you assumed the risk.

BTW, I loved the video of the snow-covered roads. The one where you were shooting video while driving. Then you complained that the board was spending so much money defending itself from your lawsuits that it had no money for plowing the parking lot. Except that the video ended with the parking lot being plowed. Funny!

MissyP (Alabama)
Posts: 63

Posted:

Nose meet face... You sue your association and/or the board members separately and don't understand why they are using the HOA funds to defend themselves? A HOA is ONLY funded by it's members FOR it's members. You and your neighbors pay your dues to cover the HOA's expenses. Those expenses range from operational to legal expenses. The more those expenses are, the more dues you and your neighbors have to pay. No one is "exempt" from paying their fair share. NOT paying their fair share can result in a lien or foreclosure of your home. ALL legal.

So I would expect your HOA to paying the BOD legal bills as they are HOA members as well. They represent the HOA as a "WHOLE". The HOA lawyer also represents the HOA as a "Whole". So not only are you paying your lawyer to bring a suit, your paying the HOA lawyer to defend yourself against the suit. That is why you are suing yourself. You win? The WHOLE of the HOA has to pay including yourself. This could be in the form of a special assessment or raise in dues to cover the insurance cost increases. (IF you don't lose insurance coverage altogether). You lose the case, the court decides who pays the court costs. It may be each party is responsible for their own costs. The court rarely makes a decision for the other party to pay the costs unless it's proven the case is so egregious that it should never been brought. That in itself will increase expenses for frivolous suits.

So do I ever advise one NOT to bring suit against the HOA. Absolutely NOT. I point out the FACT that: Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. Expect to pay for those consequences. IF this is okay with you and/or your neighbors the suit is worthy, then go for it. However, you will find that HOA's work in "Majority". So if your HOA is completely acting bad, then you and your neighbors have the option of removing the BOD members by a majority vote without ever going to court. You and your neighbors don't like a rule? You and your neighbors have the power to change the rule so that it's no longer a violation. You want to have punishments for those who violate? Then the majority votes for a fining schedule defining the violation and the cost of doing such.

If you have the neighbors you say you do, then you ALL should join in the lawsuit equally if you think court is the answer. If you don't want to go to court and save your HOA, then you all get together and make decisions that will best benefit the HOA by your voting power. Which you may have lost by not being up to date with your dues.

Food for thought...eat it or be eaten....

ErikaC (Virginia)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Chris,

I'm curious did you and the other resident inform the HOA Board that you recorded the meeting(s) and later inform the Board of your intentions to publish your recordings on a public social media site, YouTube?

While I am a native NJ gal, I am more familiar with my current State (Virginia) requirements of recording & posting HOA meetings. Virginia's Open Meeting laws require if you are recording a meeting of a public or private gov body, you must (not should, but must) announce at the meeting and you "shall" place the recording device in plain sight of all attendees. HOA's are not public corporations, so someone like me, who isn't a "member" of your Hoa shouldn't have access of your community meetings.

Unfortunately you could be opening yourself up for a whole different legal set of problems with your YouTube videos. Case in point the video which appears to be taking with your cellphone while you are operating a moving vehicle during a snowstorm.

If I were a member (not a board member) of your HOA I would be very concerned that you are recording the meetings without my knowledge or consent. Just a thought not a sermon.

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343

Posted:

New Jersey's wiretapping law is a "one-party consent" law. New Jersey makes it a crime to intercept or record an in-person or telephone conversation unless one party to the conversation consents. N.J. Stat. §§ 2A:156A-3, -4. (link is to the entire code; you need to click through to Title 2A, Article 156A, and then locate the specific provisions). Thus, if you operate in New Jersey, you may record a conversation or phone call if you are a party to the conversation or you get permission from one party to the conversation in advance. That said, if you intend to record conversations involving people located in more than one state, you should play it safe and get the consent of all parties.

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343

Posted:

Sorry. Forgot the link: http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/new-jersey/new-jersey-recording-law

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 02/04/2014 12:51 PM
Chris is well known in that part of NJ.

Chris made the news again with another one of her suits dismissed.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

http://www.nj.com/hunterdon-county-democrat/index.ssf/2014/02/suit_filed_by_pro-se_litigant.html

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

ChrisA13 (New Jersey)
Posts: 120

Posted:

Kevin, thanks for putting up the law. I already knew it but didn't bother to post it. I don't respond to those who don't know the law and those who don't make comments worthy of commentary. Not worth my time. But even if it weren't the law in NJ, I am on my land at meetings held within property I own. So, in reality, I would "roll the dice" and record these meetings anyway even if I were "violating the law" so that I was safe. The law + NJ = Insert laughter. Lord knows, the NJ courts could care less about people being safe. And since there have already been assaults and threats made at these meetings, I would and will always protect myself and my own interest. Let the "law" be damned.

Yet I do appreciate you being logical enough to state facts and for not making stupid emotional suggestions, giving idiotic advice on how to be totally apathetic and providing unwanted guidance on how to roll over and play dead. I knew I entered the CAI arena, but I didn't expect it to be so tacky. And it's so typical: a woman fights for her rights and suddenly it becomes the "poor thing, take a nap, have a cup of tea, you're hysterical" discussion. "Go watch Dr. Phil, it will make you feel better..." Not facts, but -- "Sweetie, is it worth it? It's just your land, your rights, your investment. Can't you scooter on and let another person buy in to get robbed, sweetie?" Unreal. Sexism is alive and well as is stupidity.

And it's far from shocking but rather amusing how lawyers and CAI-affiliated parties with NO STANDING in these corporation and nothing to lose (but EVERYTHING to gain, coming - going - collections - contracts - FHA approval - bankruptcy), are the ones so active in keeping the power from the owners. Twin Rivers anyone? CAI was there. Arguing. And what ownership rights does the CAI have in Twin Rivers? Right, NONE. But the leeches leech on -- and then make "emotional" commentary on those owners who dare fight for what is rightfully theirs in some crazy hope it will stop people from fighting. Like dumb postings would make anyone drop a lawsuit?!

And, despite the joy a certain geriatric gets out of seeing women being unable to enter their own home/street (Dr. Phil may be needed there), I will continue to record. People who get stuck on roads not maintained, homes not maintained, money which gets stolen by HOA board members... they don't find my recordings funny. Only lawyers who reap the benefits of the wrong-doings of these HOAs/COAs think this kind of theft, embezzlement and negligence is funny. And I don't think a jury would find it funny... which is exactly why the judges in NJ have pushed me out of their courts. They know, like I know -- a jury would NOT see it the way of the CAI. And the judges can't have that...

With this said, oh no... another report of another "hysterical" woman! Her nose needs to meet her face and she really needs a cup of tea and some Dr. Phil. Why make so much fuss? Just let people rob you, sweetheart -- right CAI? Best years of your life and all... Just let them rob you, sweetie.... You're being hysterical...

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/money/consumer/alerts/trouble-with-your-homeowners-association-how-to-fight-back

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Evidently the OP here knows more than everyone including the courts.

One moment the law will support her claims and actions then in a quick turnaround the law be damned.

Nice to have it both ways. The law works when it supports your claims but not when it rules against you.

CAI arena? I can count on one hand the times that organization has even been discussed here. But let's make it up because it seems to explain why some don't agree.

And by all means lets now play the sexism card.

Speaking for myself after 6 years and now once again this most recent claim made against the judge being thrown out,
Proceeding on this crusade would be foolishness man,woman or child.

It does not matter.

Guess the answer would be this OP would rather be or needs to be RIGHT. Because they live now to protect everyone or at least that is the noble claim.

Fight on there is much more of your life you have yet to waste filing suits against a sitting judge. But in the next breath the OP cites the law and their knowledge of the same.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 02/11/2014 6:28 AM

Because they live now to protect everyone or at least that is the noble claim.

Jon,

I understand what you are saying. I for one, and this is about issues in general and not abut Chris's specific issue, learned awhile ago that it's best to actually speak up when you see something that is happening to others and try to protect them if possible. However, you don't do it for the other person (granted a noble claim indeed but not a realistic one), you do it because if someone or some entity is taking wrongful action against someone else, how long will it be before that same individual/entity takes wrongful action against me? Granted, and I truly believe this, you can't save people from themselves. In other words, understand the limitations of what you can or can't do and look at the issue from all perspectives. Perhaps what is happening to others is because of the choices they made.

Additionally, I do understand (and I believe others do as well) fighting the good fight for principal alone. Typically when you fight on principal alone it's more of a fight to bring the issue into the light for everyone to see and for personal satisfaction. As long as you understand that your fight won't necessarily change anything, as often what was done can't be undone, but you bring the issue to light so, hopefully, others can learn from the issue and not make the same mistakes.

It's obvious that Chris believes in what she is doing and she is willing to stand up and fight for her belief. I for one admire that. If it were me, I do believe that I would also fight for some of the issues Chris is fighting for. That being said, I do believe that I would use a different strategy then the court system. However, I don't know the specifics of the issues and, as I posted earlier, with it already being in the courts, my strategies would likely be ineffective at this time in Chris's process.

Chris,

I do wish you luck in addressing the issues in your Association. My only advice at this point is to try and keep a distance between the issue and the strategy to fight the issue. Sometimes when individuals are personally involved in an issue they can get tunnel vision and miss certain key pieces of information that, had they been aware of the information, they may have refocused their energy and chose a different path to address the issue.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 02/11/2014 7:33 AM

Posted By JonD1 on 02/11/2014 6:28 AM

Because they live now to protect everyone or at least that is the noble claim.

Jon,

I understand what you are saying. I for one, and this is about issues in general and not abut Chris's specific issue, learned awhile ago that it's best to actually speak up when you see something that is happening to others and try to protect them if possible. However, you don't do it for the other person (granted a noble claim indeed but not a realistic one), you do it because if someone or some entity is taking wrongful action against someone else, how long will it be before that same individual/entity takes wrongful action against me? Granted, and I truly believe this, you can't save people from themselves. In other words, understand the limitations of what you can or can't do and look at the issue from all perspectives. Perhaps what is happening to others is because of the choices they made.

Additionally, I do understand (and I believe others do as well) fighting the good fight for principal alone. Typically when you fight on principal alone it's more of a fight to bring the issue into the light for everyone to see and for personal satisfaction. As long as you understand that your fight won't necessarily change anything, as often what was done can't be undone, but you bring the issue to light so, hopefully, others can learn from the issue and not make the same mistakes.

It's obvious that Chris believes in what she is doing and she is willing to stand up and fight for her belief. I for one admire that. If it were me, I do believe that I would also fight for some of the issues Chris is fighting for. That being said, I do believe that I would use a different strategy then the court system. However, I don't know the specifics of the issues and, as I posted earlier, with it already being in the courts, my strategies would likely be ineffective at this time in Chris's process.

Chris,

I do wish you luck in addressing the issues in your Association. My only advice at this point is to try and keep a distance between the issue and the strategy to fight the issue. Sometimes when individuals are personally involved in an issue they can get tunnel vision and miss certain key pieces of information that, had they been aware of the information, they may have refocused their energy and chose a different path to address the issue.

Tim while I agree with you at some point enough has to be enough. Bringing suit against a sitting judge with the belief you might prevail?

Is that even rational?

And after six years what support if any does the OP have from other owners?

After the blog, the videos, the legal actions what has been accomplished to benefit the property and the property owners?

And sorry the old claim you are working to protect those who don't care or those who may someday buy into this community is a stretch for me. The only one who needs this fight is the OP.

If the other owners are so accepting of this unacceptable behavior do you really want to live there and fight the good fight for 6 plus years?

And then claim those who disagree are sexist!

As Dr. Phil would ask "How's that working for you?

JoK2 (California)
Posts: 198

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ChrisA13 on 02/11/2014 4:57 AM
Kevin, thanks for putting up the law. I already knew it but didn't bother to post it. I don't respond to those who don't know the law and those who don't make comments worthy of commentary. Not worth my time. But even if it weren't the law in NJ, I am on my land at meetings held within property I own. So, in reality, I would "roll the dice" and record these meetings anyway even if I were "violating the law" so that I was safe. The law + NJ = Insert laughter. Lord knows, the NJ courts could care less about people being safe. And since there have already been assaults and threats made at these meetings, I would and will always protect myself and my own interest. Let the "law" be damned.

Yet I do appreciate you being logical enough to state facts and for not making stupid emotional suggestions, giving idiotic advice on how to be totally apathetic and providing unwanted guidance on how to roll over and play dead. I knew I entered the CAI arena, but I didn't expect it to be so tacky. And it's so typical: a woman fights for her rights and suddenly it becomes the "poor thing, take a nap, have a cup of tea, you're hysterical" discussion. "Go watch Dr. Phil, it will make you feel better..." Not facts, but -- "Sweetie, is it worth it? It's just your land, your rights, your investment. Can't you scooter on and let another person buy in to get robbed, sweetie?" Unreal. Sexism is alive and well as is stupidity.

And it's far from shocking but rather amusing how lawyers and CAI-affiliated parties with NO STANDING in these corporation and nothing to lose (but EVERYTHING to gain, coming - going - collections - contracts - FHA approval - bankruptcy), are the ones so active in keeping the power from the owners. Twin Rivers anyone? CAI was there. Arguing. And what ownership rights does the CAI have in Twin Rivers? Right, NONE. But the leeches leech on -- and then make "emotional" commentary on those owners who dare fight for what is rightfully theirs in some crazy hope it will stop people from fighting. Like dumb postings would make anyone drop a lawsuit?!

And, despite the joy a certain geriatric gets out of seeing women being unable to enter their own home/street (Dr. Phil may be needed there), I will continue to record. People who get stuck on roads not maintained, homes not maintained, money which gets stolen by HOA board members... they don't find my recordings funny. Only lawyers who reap the benefits of the wrong-doings of these HOAs/COAs think this kind of theft, embezzlement and negligence is funny. And I don't think a jury would find it funny... which is exactly why the judges in NJ have pushed me out of their courts. They know, like I know -- a jury would NOT see it the way of the CAI. And the judges can't have that...

With this said, oh no... another report of another "hysterical" woman! Her nose needs to meet her face and she really needs a cup of tea and some Dr. Phil. Why make so much fuss? Just let people rob you, sweetheart -- right CAI? Best years of your life and all... Just let them rob you, sweetie.... You're being hysterical...

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/money/consumer/alerts/trouble-with-your-homeowners-association-how-to-fight-back

JoK2 (California)
Posts: 198

Posted:

I've read this thread and I did not read anywhere that anyone has made this a "sexist" issue, you the OP did, and when that or the race card is brought up, it screams (to me anyway)that the OP does not like nor appreciates the advice being given and goes on the offensive.

Those two cards are typical offensive tactics and being a woman myself I can state that in this case, you've become that very woman. Striking out against the very people you have asked for help from is not a gender thing in general, but it becomes one when you write this stupid stuff.

>>>> And it's so typical: a woman fights for her rights and suddenly it becomes the "poor thing, take a nap, have a cup of tea, you're hysterical" discussion. "Go watch Dr. Phil, it will make you feel better..." Not facts, but -- "Sweetie, is it worth it? It's just your land, your rights, your investment. Can't you scooter on and let another person buy in to get robbed, sweetie?" Unreal. Sexism is alive and well as is stupidity. <<<<<

>>>Like dumb postings would make anyone drop a lawsuit?!

>>>With this said, oh no... another report of another "hysterical" woman! Her nose needs to meet her face and she really needs a cup of tea and some Dr. Phil. Why make so much fuss? Just let people rob you, sweetheart -- right CAI? Best years of your life and all... Just let them rob you, sweetie.... You're being hysterical...<<<

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JoK2 on 02/12/2014 5:00 AM

Striking out against the very people you have asked for help from is not a gender thing . . .

Well, to be fair, Chris never did ask for advice.

She simply wanted to bring attention to her issue and her website.

Why she wanted to do this, I can't speak to. It's unlikely that only a couple, if any, posters on this site live in her Association. Therefore, other than visiting her website (which would raise her site's listing in search results), we really can't do anything about her issue. Perhaps she was trying to bring examples of how HOA/COAs have problems, many of us on here are aware of that.

The only thing I'm fairly certain of is that she did not ask for advice or assistance.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Might we hook Mike and Chris up?

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 02/12/2014 12:53 PM
Might we hook Mike and Chris up?

They certainly have a connection..................

CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 02/12/2014 12:49 PM

Posted By JoK2 on 02/12/2014 5:00 AM

Striking out against the very people you have asked for help from is not a gender thing . . .

Well, to be fair, Chris never did ask for advice.

She simply wanted to bring attention to her issue and her website.

Why she wanted to do this, I can't speak to. It's unlikely that only a couple, if any, posters on this site live in her Association. Therefore, other than visiting her website (which would raise her site's listing in search results), we really can't do anything about her issue. Perhaps she was trying to bring examples of how HOA/COAs have problems, many of us on here are aware of that.

The only thing I'm fairly certain of is that she did not ask for advice or assistance.

You crack me up Tim! You are correct in your certainty!

ChrisA13 (New Jersey)
Posts: 120

Posted:

Tim:

It's good to see that you know how to read. I was thinking the same thing. When did I ask for help? Or guidance on my case? Or commentary on my emotional well-being? Right, never. When people can't deal in facts (especially lawyers who have a stake in fleecing the "golden goose" of COA/HOAs), they have to resort to "Dr. Phil" and make other claims that do not exist.

I think the lack of actual commentary on the subject matter -- that an FDCPA debt collector law firm blended/combined/mixed their own defense fees with and charged their client for their own legal defense in a civil suit -- shows that that is topic that the lawyers don't want discussed. Yes, law firms are corporations too. They can be sued. And yes, they have to pay for their own defense. But they didn't. And, as far as I'm concerned, defrauded the shareholders of this corporation and assisted their client in EMBEZZLING FUNDS from this corporation. (But no one wants to touch that -- as you have noticed.)

For the record, I've talked to the DCA in my state. Law firms have gotten away with this illegal fee shifting for years. It's another "perk" of being in the system in this corrupt state and the power of lawyers to keep legal bills away from the owners so they can't know what is being charged/for whom. "Nose meet face" -- just bury your head in the sand. Really, how dare I challenge what works so well financially for those who have NO STAKE in these corporations? And are violating the law? And assisting the BOT to violate the law? Those who are supposed to work in "the best interest" of the client -- but instead do it harm. (Let's stay far away from that topic, right?!)

End of the day -- and what is most noteworthy -- is the law firm who BLENDED their legal fees with its client (MY COA) and billed their own client for their own expenses as a debt collector (and failed in fee-shifting it on to me via a fraudulent motion with the court) -- IMPLODED. They are GONE!!! DONE.

After decades of being existing in Morristown, this major firm IMPLODED almost immediately after this improper billing was discovered. All partners have scattered to other firms and now won't even respond to the court. They think they can just go "MIA." Why not? And a lawyer for the COA continues to speak on their behalf without standing. (Their former employer.) That's justice, right?

The courts have helped them throughout these entire proceedings keep discovery from me and get them removed from the case as quickly as they could. So why participate now? Just implode, run and hide. -- Call that a coincidence? Or running from the reality of a HUGE CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT once a REAL lawyer with ethics who gets hold of this fact and realizes that 200 other condo associations may have been illegally charged as well. Quoting Flock of Seagulls, "And I ran. I ran so far way... I couldn't get away." (Ha!)

Regardless, thanks for your common sense. And for actually READING what I wrote.

ChrisA13 (New Jersey)
Posts: 120

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 02/12/2014 12:53 PM
Might we hook Mike and Chris up?

I don't know who you think "we" is...but you can't do anything with me. I am not here for your insults or "hook ups." If you have nothing productive to say as to the topic I posted, keep your disgusting comments to yourself. This is a discussion board, not a dating site. And clearly, you know how to make proper posts on other boards. And I have no desire to crawl in the gutter with you. I hope this was clear.

ChrisA13 (New Jersey)
Posts: 120

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 02/11/2014 6:28 AM
Evidently the OP here knows more than everyone including the courts.

Speaking for myself after 6 years and now once again this most recent claim made against the judge being thrown out,
Proceeding on this crusade would be foolishness man,woman or child.

Just to be clear, you CAN only speak for yourself. You certainly cannot speak for me. And I certainly did not ask you what I should do with my suits. If I hadn't sued and then forced the settlement to be honored by an OTSC, I would be living in a rotting home with mold in the walls to this very day. You may find that acceptable and YOU can certainly live like an animal, but I chose to sue and have my home restored due to the negligence (known and admitted) by my corporation. Regardless, I didn't ask anyone for their opinion on my legal cases -- most certainly not you.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 02/04/2014 11:01 AM

Those who represent themselves are usually not acquainted with the rules of court and do little or no research into the laws that govern the situation. They often come into court with nothing more than a messianic belief that the court will see the righteousness of their cause despite centuries of common law and statutes to the contrary.

I think I got one right.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Mike, met Chris. Chris, meet Mike.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Evidently the OP here is in no need of any input from others.

And it would be clear to me the OP can see only one path going forward.

Any who might not fall in line is wrong, CAI connected, or has to be part of the world wide problem the OP
sees all over or must be sexist!

Then why oh why do you come to a public forum. Just to whine and gripe ???????

Rather than wasting limited time in conflict with CAI funded criminals better to work on the blog, video more falling snow and perhaps sue another judge.

Yes that's the ticket............

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 02/13/2014 6:20 PM
Evidently the OP here is in no need of any input from others.

And it would be clear to me the OP can see only one path going forward.

Any who might not fall in line is wrong, CAI connected, or has to be part of the world wide problem the OP
sees all over or must be sexist!

Then why oh why do you come to a public forum. Just to whine and gripe ???????

Rather than wasting limited time in conflict with CAI funded criminals better to work on the blog, video more falling snow and perhaps sue another judge.

Yes that's the ticket............

Exactly, what is a CAI funded criminal?

ChrisA13 (New Jersey)
Posts: 120

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13

Exactly, what is a CAI funded criminal?

I have no idea. I never used that statement. Go to the source. Good luck trying to get any logic there.

ChrisA13 (New Jersey)
Posts: 120

Posted:

Another "fun" article that supports why people need to fight:

http://njcooperator.com/articles/659/1/Stop-Thief/Page1.html

"In New York last December, a Rockland County treasurer pleaded guilty to taking more than $130,000 from an association and a managing agent last August was ordered to pay more than $628,201 to a Manhattan co-op he allegedly defrauded. In March, a New Jersey condo association president pleaded guilty to embezzling more than $50,000 from her association, and another business manager in Florida allegedly stole more than $856,000 from five area homeowners associations. Perhaps the largest case of fraud reported in recent months is that of a New York managing agent, who allegedly siphoned off $1.3 million in property taxes from six co-ops."

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

I am really curious, because I have certifications from that organizations and have belonged to the organization since 2008, first as a homeowner, then as a Board member, then as a manager, and finally as a business owner.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

"Never buy into an HOA/COA community ever. Regardless of who is running the show, there is a cancer of corruption and power-grabs by all those who are working to earn money from COA/HOAs. The CAI is the cancer and, in my case, has embedded themselves on all fronts, from the management company, maintenance company, law firm and even the Board with money paid by them to the CAI for "membership" that is not permitted to be used for those purposes in my corporation. We have been taken over as is the intent of the CAI. A power grab by parties without anything to lose and everything to gain. It is not a coincidence that their national lobbying effort is so strong -- they have found the "golden goose" and can fleece it without repercussion. Only the pathetic owners suffer, not the corporations. And that is why being an "owner"/"member" of an HOA/COA is not a good place to be. "

ChrisA13 (New Jersey)
Posts: 120

Posted:

Quote:

Exactly, what is a CAI funded criminal?

Like I said, I never used those words. Go to the source and see if he can find where I ever used those words. He won't be able to do so nor will anyone else. But there is docketed case you can find that deals with the FTC's actions against the CAI and its activities if you choose to look into it.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 02/13/2014 8:08 PM
"Never buy into an HOA/COA community ever. Regardless of who is running the show, there is a cancer of corruption and power-grabs by all those who are working to earn money from COA/HOAs. The CAI is the cancer and, in my case, has embedded themselves on all fronts, from the management company, maintenance company, law firm and even the Board with money paid by them to the CAI for "membership" that is not permitted to be used for those purposes in my corporation. We have been taken over as is the intent of the CAI. A power grab by parties without anything to lose and everything to gain. It is not a coincidence that their national lobbying effort is so strong -- they have found the "golden goose" and can fleece it without repercussion. Only the pathetic owners suffer, not the corporations. And that is why being an "owner"/"member" of an HOA/COA is not a good place to be. "

So this is the mindset the OP starts from. There simply is no HOA one should ever consider buying into.
And the comments made regarding the CAI well IMO just a little drastic. I have lived in my community since 1985 Board member since 87. CAI has a local chapter that offers a free annual trade show and seminars. Not familiar with their cancerous services.

I do NOT belong to CAI. So they can't have a grip on me or making money from the property where I live.
Contrary to the absolute claims made by the OP.

So accepting the possibility the OP might be living in the most corrupt and poorly run HOA in the free world, their claims to somehow have knowledge of the goings on in EVERY HOA can't be taken seriously.

IMO when you see nothing but bad, wrong, corrupt, and evil and can with a straight face make the claim every such entity is equal to CANCER well you have gone round the bend.

To claim every HOA offers nothing positive would be as foolish as any of us claiming ALL HOAs run in a state of perfection.
Hard to imagine when humans are involved.

And now the OP is on a crusade to post stories and articles that support their uninformed view of ALL HOAS as if THIS
proves their views to hold true. You see they found six thieves stealing money out of the tens of thousands of people who volunteer their time to serve their communities. Therefore each and every one on any property has to be the same.

Quite a limited and twisted view of reality IMO.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 02/14/2014 2:37 AM

Posted By JonD1 on 02/13/2014 8:08 PM
"Never buy into an HOA/COA community ever. Regardless of who is running the show, there is a cancer of corruption and power-grabs by all those who are working to earn money from COA/HOAs. The CAI is the cancer and, in my case, has embedded themselves on all fronts, from the management company, maintenance company, law firm and even the Board with money paid by them to the CAI for "membership" that is not permitted to be used for those purposes in my corporation. We have been taken over as is the intent of the CAI. A power grab by parties without anything to lose and everything to gain. It is not a coincidence that their national lobbying effort is so strong -- they have found the "golden goose" and can fleece it without repercussion. Only the pathetic owners suffer, not the corporations. And that is why being an "owner"/"member" of an HOA/COA is not a good place to be. "

So this is the mindset the OP starts from. There simply is no HOA one should ever consider buying into.
And the comments made regarding the CAI well IMO just a little drastic. I have lived in my community since 1985 Board member since 87. CAI has a local chapter that offers a free annual trade show and seminars. Not familiar with their cancerous services.

I do NOT belong to CAI. So they can't have a grip on me or making money from the property where I live.
Contrary to the absolute claims made by the OP.

So accepting the possibility the OP might be living in the most corrupt and poorly run HOA in the free world, their claims to somehow have knowledge of the goings on in EVERY HOA can't be taken seriously.

IMO when you see nothing but bad, wrong, corrupt, and evil and can with a straight face make the claim every such entity is equal to CANCER well you have gone round the bend.

To claim every HOA offers nothing positive would be as foolish as any of us claiming ALL HOAs run in a state of perfection.
Hard to imagine when humans are involved.

And now the OP is on a crusade to post stories and articles that support their uninformed view of ALL HOAS as if THIS
proves their views to hold true. You see they found six thieves stealing money out of the tens of thousands of people who volunteer their time to serve their communities. Therefore each and every one on any property has to be the same.

Quite a limited and twisted view of reality IMO.

Well said.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Jon meet John, John meet Jon