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CharlesM10 (Virginia)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Hello,

This post relates to the 'Neighbor's Industrial Truck' posting. I wanted to start a new topic, because I have finally got a hold of the crucial CC&R and another piece of information, which indicate to this ignorant layman that the Declarant's unelected Board of Director's have made a decision that goes against the Community Covenances. I have included a copy of my original grievance below.

Section 17(d)

"Except for parking within garages, and except as herein elsewhere provided, no junk vehicle, commercial vehicle (including vans used for commercial use and vehicles displaying commercial signage), truck (as defined by the Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles and/or by common usage and practice except for light pick-up trucks of three-quarter (3/4) ton capacity or less used for non-commercial purposes)...shall be kept upon the property or upon the public or private streets within or adjacent to the property.  The Association may, in the descretion of the Board of Directors of the Association or the Covenent Committee, provide and maintain a suitable area designated for the parking of such vehicles."

As defined by the Virginia DMV: "truck" means every motor vehicle designed to transport property on it's own structure independent of any other vehicle and having a registered gross weight in excess of 7,500 pounds.

I don't know the exact weight of my neighbor's work truck, a virtually identical vehicle I found online was listed as a Class 5 vehicle.
A Class 5 vehicle has a weight of between 16,000-19,000 pounds. In any case his truck far exceeds 7,500 pounds.

Question: if I am right and this decision is wrong, what can I do?

My Original Post:

Hello everyone,

I am new to the group, but I have a serious problem with a neighbor's commercial vehicle that the HOA board of directors has allowed to remain in our neighborhood under conditions.

In July I moved into a brand new townhouse in Winchester, Virginia.  These townhomes are considered upscale for the area.  While moving in my brother noticed a large, green truck with a crane, generator, and tool bins all over.  We both thought it was part of the still on going construction in the development, but sometime later I learned that it is used by my next door neighbor for his work as a heavy vehicle repair technician for a local excavating company.

This bothers me a great deal, not so much because the truck is an aesthetic eyesore which it is, but because this fellow works in two professions both rated for asbestos exposure.  This not to mention potential exposure to all sorts of other nasty substances found at excavation sites, especially those that saw demolition beforehand.  Anyways, he brings his dirty truck back in the evening, and parks so the muddy extended fantail of the truck overhangs the sidewalk, and he parks at the high end of the street.  So everytime it rains the crap runs off his truck right down the sidewalk and on to my walk/lawn.  I and my dog then track that stuff right into the house.  I am even afraid to open the front windows because of the close proximity of his dusty truck.

Although, I thought to talk with the neighbor directly as I prefer, someone who knew the fellow urged me not to do so.  So I and at least one other homeowner (there are probably only 8-10 in the entire community at present including the fellow with the truck) complained to the HOA representative and the builder.  The HOA representitive initially seemed very optimistic that the rules were on our side.  After a few weeks though he called me back and said that the board of directors had decided to allow the truck to stay as long as he covered the sign and kept the vehicle clean.  He has fulfilled the first requirement, but not paid much heed to the second.

The decision to allow his vehicle to stay provisionally was made because apparently the rules were written to the state standard for commercial vehicles, which is defined as anything 13 tons or over  and capacity to carry over 10 people.  This is absolutely ridiculous!  Anyone looking at this vehicle can see this is a commercial/industrial vehicle, and it is parked at the epicenter of our new community.  Kids play around the vehicle even though it has 'danger' stickers placed all around it. The fellow was asked if he would consider placing his truck in the overflow/satellite parking area a little further away from people's homes, and he apparently refused.  Now the HOA manager says his truck is 'grandfathered' in so even when we the residents takeover leadership of the HOA we will not be able to do anything about it!

This is intolerable, and I am not going to stand for it, but I don't know where to begin?  The HOA manager is a joke and quite ineffectual.  Should I hire a lawyer?  Talk to the guy and try and make him understand that he is ruining my quality of life?  Contact his company myself?  Do a Ghandi style fast?  What?

Thank you in advance for any helpful advice.

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
The way I see it, the BoD may provide a suitable location for such vehicles to park. It just so happens the place they chose was this individual's driveway. While some may interpret the covenant to mean somewhere else, I think the language is somewhat vague and leaves the decision in the hands of the BoD.
PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Charles,

Looks like your CC&R's are very specific. A "3/4" ton pickup can be equipped from
6,400 GVW to 8,200GVW.

http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/2012/specifications/payload/

If a truck has dual rear wheels it will be rated FAR above 7,500 GVW

A few years back I did a LOT of research on this issue. Instead of getting into the GVW or physical size issues we said any truck used for business purposes with dual rear wheels or more than two axles is prohibited to park outside overnight unless on a HOA permitted active job sight.

Your best bet may be going through the Town if he is in violation of the residential zoning codes. We have found the Town carries a much bigger stick than our HOA and that once they become involved the compliance rate goes way up. I think the local construction and service industries really don't want to "get involved" with the Town, if you get my drift. Let us know how it comes out, thanks for the feedback.

Paul T
CharlesM10 (Virginia)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Hi guys,

From what the community representative told me the primary reason the board allowed the truck to stay parked in front of residences was because it was under the limit for what the state defined as a 'truck'. This idiot representative quoted me something like 26,000 pounds and over was considered a truck in the state. I think he was looking at the definition of a tractor trailer!

My question is if such a board makes a ruling based on erroneous information is it null and void, or still holds validity?

Thanks
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
A Board certainly may overturn a decision it previously made. But you need to persuade it to do so. Maybe a politely worded letter to the Board pointing out VA's definition of a truck? If you know of others who'd like to see the truck gone, you could submit your request in the form of a little petition.
PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CharlesM10 on 09/10/2012 4:58 PM
Hi guys,

From what the community representative told me the primary reason the board allowed the truck to stay parked in front of residences was because it was under the limit for what the state defined as a 'truck'. This idiot representative quoted me something like 26,000 pounds and over was considered a truck in the state. I think he was looking at the definition of a tractor trailer!

My question is if such a board makes a ruling based on erroneous information is it null and void, or still holds validity?

Thanks

Looks to me like your CC&R's are as about as specific as they can be. "They" went absolutely against them. Unless there is written documention of them granting a "variance" it should be a no brainer, the truck is in non-compliance. As mentioned earlier the Town zoning regs may also prohibit this truck from being parked in a residentially zoned neighborhood. Many, many communities have such restrictions. Dont work hard, work smart :-)

Paul T
CharlesM10 (Virginia)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Thanks everyone,

Paul who would I contact to find out about zoning regulations?

Thanks.
CharlesM10 (Virginia)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Wait a minute!

Come to think of it the idiot community representative told me that it was allowed because a 'commercial vehicle' in the state of Virginia is defined as 26,000 pounds or over, but that is not the standard. The standard is a 'truck'. A vehicle that hauls it's own payload, and weighs in excess of 7,500 pounds.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaulT6 on 09/10/2012 5:50 PM
Posted By CharlesM10 on 09/10/2012 4:58 PM
Hi guys,

From what the community representative told me the primary reason the board allowed the truck to stay parked in front of residences was because it was under the limit for what the state defined as a 'truck'. This idiot representative quoted me something like 26,000 pounds and over was considered a truck in the state. I think he was looking at the definition of a tractor trailer!

My question is if such a board makes a ruling based on erroneous information is it null and void, or still holds validity?

Thanks


Looks to me like your CC&R's are as about as specific as they can be. "They" went absolutely against them. Unless there is written documention of them granting a "variance" it should be a no brainer, the truck is in non-compliance. As mentioned earlier the Town zoning regs may also prohibit this truck from being parked in a residentially zoned neighborhood. Many, many communities have such restrictions. Dont work hard, work smart :-)

Paul T

I agree with Paul. Although at this point, your board has simply NOT taken any action against the presence of the truck. (unless the expressly granted approval)

Now is the time to comb those documents with a fine toothed comb. Look for something that says that any co-owner also has the right to enforce the documents should the board fail in their responsibility. Check with your local municipality as suggested as well.

In the meantime, I would file a formal complaint with your board of directors, citing chapter and verse the specific restriction that is being violated and ask them to remedy the situation within 14 days. From there, you probably have the authority to seek enforcement of the restrictions without the BOD.
CharlesM10 (Virginia)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Hi Dave,

Well they did give their approval as long as the individual covered the sign (has complied) and kept his vehicle clean (has not complied to my view). At the same time they or the community representative supposedly asked him to consider moving his vehicle to the satellite parking area which he apparently refused. So is the space he is in now what is referred to as 'provide and maintain a suitable area designated for the parking of such vehicles'? No I really don't think so, unless his wife's minivan and daughter's sedan which are parked next to his are also considered park of this 'area'.

Ciao
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CharlesM10 on 09/10/2012 2:49 PM

Section 17(d)

"Except for parking within garages, and except as herein elsewhere provided, no junk vehicle, commercial vehicle (including vans used for commercial use and vehicles displaying commercial signage), truck (as defined by the Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles and/or by common usage and practice except for light pick-up trucks of three-quarter (3/4) ton capacity or less used for non-commercial purposes)...shall be kept upon the property or upon the public or private streets within or adjacent to the property.  The Association may, in the descretion of the Board of Directors of the Association or the Covenent Committee, provide and maintain a suitable area designated for the parking of such vehicles."

What you have here is absolute crap.

The restrictions are clear as a bell and your neighbor would normally be in violation. The crap part is the line that states, "The Association may, in the descretion of the Board of Directors of the Association or the Covenent Committee, provide and maintain a suitable area designated for the parking of such vehicles." In one place it says you cannot park these vehicles under any circumstances and the other place it says the Association's BOD may provide a place for them to park. This is the very definition of ambiguity.

The Association, who under normal circumstances is the party charged with enforcing the deed restrictions, is here permitted to do pretty much what it wants regardless of the actual recorded CC&R's. It's like have a statute that says it's against the law to rob a bank unless the police feel otherwise. The recorded CC&R's are supposed to be a notice to the owners of what they may and may not do but, in this case, the restrictions are subject to whatever the BOD feels like doing.

At this point, Charles, I think you are in a rough situation. The best you can do now is argue that the Association has not provided a suitable area designated for the truck. I interpret "designated" to mean that there must be signs posted or some other means of positively identifying the truck parking area.

My recommendation is that regarding this matter that you cease all communication with the "community representative." All your communications should be in writing and should be directed to the Association's Board of Directors, even though they are the developer's toadies. If state law allows it, I would recommend requesting the minutes for the meeting where the board designated the truck parking area and a copy of all related documents (maps, diagrams, applications, etc.) designating the truck parking area.

One other thought: If you are up to it, sue the owner of the truck demanding that he remove it. The owner of the truck is a WV corporation and not a resident of your condos. The truck owner has no right to park on your property and the owner has no standing to request an accomodation from the Association as he is not a member. If you are in a condo, you have an undivided interest in the parking area and the truck owner has none at all. Most CC&R's give owners the right to privately enforce the restrictions.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Charles,

Just to clarify a little, I would suggest as a first order of business to visit the local zoning/building offices and pull up the site plans for your development. Ask the employees about truck parking and find out if the site plan shows a truck parking area. If truck parking is not permitted in your residential area, file a complaint.

This might be a bit of a stretch, but you might be able to make a case that the developer is running a commercial parking business in a residential area as the owner of the truck is not a resident.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Charles,

I agree with Larry. The CC&Rs allow the Board to waive that covenant and designate the driveway (if they so desire) as a parking area. The good news is that when the membership has control they can change that.

I think you will have a better chance of having the vehicle removed if you file a tax evader claim on the individual. As Larry pointed out, the owner is in WV and will likely not want to pay VA Personal Property Taxes on a commercial vehicle.
If it were me, I'd take pictures for a week straight to document the vehicle being parked there overnight and file them with the claim. Then let the State Department of Taxation resolve the issue. Either the truck will be moved or VA tags will go on it.
CharlesM10 (Virginia)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Good morning,

Thanks everyone for the ideas and encouragement. This issue is really getting to me, I had a bad night sleep. This situation is starting to turn into an episode of the Twilight Zone.

The sales representative for the builder (who sold me my home) is supposed to call me today, and I am going to ask her for contact information for the BOD. I think it is a good idea to get a copy of the actual determination by the BOD as you suggest, because if what the idiot community representative originally told me was correct their ruling had nothing to do with designating a space for his vehicle, and everything to do with this wacky weight calculation which is incorrect. The community representative's supervisor, who is supposed to be working this problem for me said he would call me yesterday and of course he did not. My prediction is he will call me today and say that he sympathizes with me, but.........

If I get a contact for the BOD should I call them, email them or send a letter? I would naturally prefer to call them so I can better emphasize the problem. However, email is acceptable, a letter is too slow and they might not choose to open it or respond to it in a timely fashion.

Thanks again
CharlesM10 (Virginia)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Oh, the other reason I don't think they designated an area, is one time he parked directly in front of my home, so if the BOD had told him only to park in his designated space he was knowly violating there agreement.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
In no way would I interpret "designated parking area" to be his driveway. That would be completely contrary to the restrictions that you posted.

They read (to me):
You can't park that type of vehicle in the association
BUT
Should the BOD decide to designate a special location/lot for ALL such vehicles, they may do so.

"The Association may, in the descretion of the Board of Directors of the Association or the Covenent Committee, provide and maintain a suitable area designated for the parking of such vehicles"

How many areas does it designate? ONE
How many vehicles? MULTIPLE

Unless his driveway is the designated location for ALL such vehicles, then the BOD has no right to permit the vehicle in that location.
CharlesM10 (Virginia)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Another thing, neither the BOD or the management company informed me or the community that they were designating the place were he parks his truck as a special area.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CharlesM10 on 09/11/2012 4:58 AM
Oh, the other reason I don't think they designated an area, is one time he parked directly in front of my home, so if the BOD had told him only to park in his designated space he was knowly violating there agreement.

Take a picture next time. It would bolster your argument.
CharlesM10 (Virginia)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Thanks Dave I did not see your message before I wrote the latest message.

Oh by the way I don't think that such an area would literally be at the heart of a community, as where my neighbor parks his truck. It is the only intersection in the community, sitting astride three townhome units. If you are considering community aesthetics it is one of the most disadvantageous locations from that perspective.

Right now I am calling the management company and getting the contact information for the BOD, I am tired of waiting.

Have a great day everyone!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CharlesM10 on 09/11/2012 4:54 AM

If I get a contact for the BOD should I call them, email them or send a letter?

From your posting, it appears that you are willing to take this issue into the court system if need be. Therefore, the earlier you start a paper trail the better. I would use e-mail or certified letters.
PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CharlesM10 on 09/10/2012 6:39 PM
Thanks everyone,

Paul who would I contact to find out about zoning regulations?

Thanks.

Charles,

Your town may have a website, a Google search will probably bring it up. We have a "Community Developement Department" that deals with zoning issues. If no website you could visit or email, asking for the commercial vehicle parking restrictions and/or the zoning ordinances. If you find he is in violation of the Town Ordinances, a polite letter to the owner of the company, including copies of the ordinance, and your CC&R's,
explaining the non-compliance issue and a request to move the truck. If no reply from the owner after a reasonable time, file a complaint with the town. Sounds like you may be whistling into the wind dealing with your HOA with legal action $$$$$$$$$$$$
the only recourse. Keep us posted.

Paul T
CharlesM10 (Virginia)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Hey everyone,

Believe it or not the Board of Directors are going to vote again, so there is hope perhaps. There is general agreement now that the CC&R was not followed, and that my neighbor's vehicle is after all a truck as defined by the state of Virginia. And no they had not designated the space in front of my neighbor's house as a special area for a noncompliance vehicle.

If the Board of Director's rule the way I hope they will, then they will designate a portion of the overflow/satellite parking area as a refuge for my neighbor's truck, but they have to inform the membership (meaning my neighbor's and me). My neighbor may put up a fuss, but I trust he will not prevail.

I don't think I should say anything more until this thing is finalized.

Thanks everyone for your help it has proved invaluable.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CharlesM10 on 09/11/2012 12:28 PM
Hey everyone,

Believe it or not the Board of Directors are going to vote again, so there is hope perhaps. There is general agreement now that the CC&R was not followed, and that my neighbor's vehicle is after all a truck as defined by the state of Virginia. And no they had not designated the space in front of my neighbor's house as a special area for a noncompliance vehicle.

If the Board of Director's rule the way I hope they will, then they will designate a portion of the overflow/satellite parking area as a refuge for my neighbor's truck, but they have to inform the membership (meaning my neighbor's and me). My neighbor may put up a fuss, but I trust he will not prevail.

I don't think I should say anything more until this thing is finalized.

Thanks everyone for your help it has proved invaluable.


Charles,

Sounds hopeful. However, you might want to review your Town's zoning and ordinances. If you want to give me the name of your town privately, [email protected]
I would be happy to review them. I am not even close to being an expert on anything but have spent a WHOLE lot ot time reasearching this topic when I was the Chairman of our HOA's Covenants Committee.

http://www.tahoedonner.com/

Paul T
CharlesM10 (Virginia)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Hi everybody,

He moved the truck!!! The board ruled, the community representative called, and without the slightest fanfare he moved the truck to satellite parking! I can scarcely believe it has happened!

Apparently, there still has to be a meeting of the Board of Directors with a member (resident) present to finalize exactly which parking slots in the satellite parking lot will be for the purpose of noncompliance vehicles. But, there is no argument even from my neighbor that his truck is most definitely a truck and cannot park in the residential spaces. I will say more about exactly how this happened after this business is finalized.

What I would like to say now though is that this is the most immensely helpful discussion group I have ever encountered anywhere, it is absolutely true that this outcome could not have happened without all of you fine folks lending a hand. I mean I did not have a clue when I stumbled in here. I had no idea of what a CC&R was, but darn if it was not the instrument that ended this nightmare just as many of you said. So I would like to thank PaulT6, TimB4, DaveD3, LarryB13, KevinK7, AnnJ1, CarolR13, John46, DJ1, JeanneK3, and GlenL (I hope I did not leave anyone out.) I would like to buy you all a beer or other beverage of your choice, although TimB4 is the only one in the vicinity I think.

This evening when I went out to walk my dog I noticed my neighbor's minivan had the rear hatch (fully automatic) open, and no one from the family was around. I decided to go ring his doorbell and tell him about the open tailgate. He appeared with his baby in his arms and while he seemed to be mildly thankful, he was not overflowing in his appreciation (I suspect he must know I was one of the residents that complained.) In anycase I was happy to help them out as I feel guilty that he was not as bad a guy as I imagined (oh, I found out the BOD had not requested if he would be willing to move to satellite parking previously that was a misunderstanding.)

For now I will just say thanks again. Have a pleasant evening. I know I will for a change!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CharlesM10 on 09/11/2012 6:29 PM
I would like to buy you all a beer or other beverage of your choice, although TimB4 is the only one in the vicinity I think.

We can drink their beers for them (so they don't go to waste)

Charles,

Keep checking back into the forum from time to time. Your experiences may help others.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Charles,

I am with Tim, we have had cases very similar to yours where after a while, "Shazam", the truck re-appears just like the beginning. Otherwise, it is a good start.

Paul T
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I'm more than thrilled for you, Charles--really!!

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