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SethV (Florida)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Greetings, My first post on HOATalk.com, tried a lot of different searches, but couldn't find an answer.

We're in a Florida developer controlled 720 HOA community. There's only 28 owners at present of a total of 213 lots, so VERY developer controlled.

We had our first HOA annual meeting tonight. First meeting ever for the HOA.

The president of the board, of course both represents the landowner/developer and is appointed to the board.

I'd had a run-in with him this past week over a clothesline ARB request. First denied it, even though that's against the FL law.

Anyway, I asked him when the ARB meets, and where were those meetings noticed. He said "I am the ARB", there are no meetings noticed, never did it for 50 communities hes apparently worked on.

Our declaration says the ARB is 3 person minimum. I'm not sure if he meant he's literally the only person on the ARB, or there's 3, but he decides and the other two rubber stamp. I can accept that he decides, but I still want the legally required meetings, and the notification.

At the start of the meeting, they were supposed to have a budget meeting. He said something like "These budget meetings are usually private, but we'll let you sit in on this one." HUH?

From my clothesline run-in, it's clear that he's going to do whatever he thinks he can get away with.

Does the 720 open meeting law apply to developer controlled ARB's?

Thanks, and forum is great.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Your developer controlled NOT owner controlled. That means the developer can do whatever they basically want. It's most likely true that he is the ARB. As if any HOA that doesn't have a ARB established or with members, the responsibility falls back on the board and/or President to decide ARB matters. Sounds like your HOA doesn't have an ARB board/committee established so he is the ARB board so to speak.

As for the budget...The HOA isn't owner funded but developer funded. Your paying dues as a member but the spending is not yet under owner control/responsibility. The budget meeting could be kept private if the developer so chooses as it's most likely his finances that are being discussed. You would be almost like a "Third Party" with a vested interest but not with decision authority.

Developer's/builders create HOA's a sales tools and tax breaks for them. Once they are done with the development/sales of the property they will turn it over to the owners to run themselves. Which leaves the members/owners responsible for the long term maintenance of whatever rules/amenities the develooper created/established. Once the developer/builder turn over the association to the owners I would STRONGLY request you and your fellow owners modify and update the rules to your liking. That includes removing any remanents of the developer's name or responsiblities. It will lessen the confusion later with new owners.

Just make sure you understand you may be a contributing member to your HOA right now but your not a controlling one. Just be glad your developer is sharing information with you all. That's a good thing. I'd worry if the developer wasn't having meetings at all or not participating in approvals.

Former HOA President
SethV (Florida)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Hey, Thanks for the reply. I was president of a condo association so it's really only the developer controlled part with which I'm unfamiliar. So thanks for the i info.

I understand, and mentioned it to the other homeowners at the meetings that we're just spectators at this point.

My question was to the actual legal responsibility of the association. The HOA is controlled by, but not legally the developer. The HOA, even at this point as I understand it, supposed to be ruled by the recorded documents, by-laws and declaration. As such, we had the required annual meeting yesterday. Although it's TOTALLY one sided, we still had it because it's required by the documents and state law.

So what I'm trying to find out is the developer controlled association still required to be operated according to the law and recorded documents. The declaration says ARB is minimum 3 members. Is it legally acceptable for the HOA to have nobody appointed to the ARB? I'll have to re-read our docs.

Thanks for the input, much to learn. A group of homeowners are looking to have our own meetings to keep an eye on the HOA. You know, sort of like the mice talking about the need for a bell on the cat...

Seth
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Our HOA didn't have an ARB most of the time. We could barely get enough people to be board members. That's why when we re-wrote our rules, we slimmed the number down to 5. You may want to find out the rule on if you don't have one established who rules. Which it will most likely state the BOARD or President. There's not a real interest on this developer's part to have an ARB if he's in control anyways. It's more helpful once the owners step in and are in control. The developer is only going to approve things that make the property attractive to buyers until he offloads the place. A clothesline isn't very attractive to most people to see in someone's yard when purchasing a home. Hence, why he most likely denied it despite the rules.

It's frustrating as you know being a former President to now have to listen to other people's making decisions. I've been there...However, I think your experience and knowledge will come into play at a later point. Keep an eye on what is going on and be prepared in the future to when things change. It will make it easier to know what you want after you find out what you don't want.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,046
Posted:
Seth,

Basically, there is probably language within your governing documents that give the developer more than 1 vote per lot. This typically gives the developer a majority of the votes (sometimes even if they only own 1 lot/unit). Because they control a majority of the votes - they can, as Melissa said, do as they please.

There may even be language that allows the Developer to change the governing documents with out the need to call a vote.

I would advise that you start to lean everything you can about transition from Developer to Owners as there are things that should be done to protect the Association.

Here are a couple of links to threads on this site about transistioning. If you have questions after reviewing those links, it would probably be best to start a new topic rather then reactivate an old thread.

Subject: HOA transition from developer control to homeowner control

Subject: Organization of HOA - Basic Requirements

Subject: BEFORE A TURNOVER

There are many others.
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
The OP asked:
"Does the 720 open meeting law apply to developer controlled ARB's?"

YES!

Once the HOA was incorporated it... well... became a Florida corporation and is thus subject to its own governing documents and ALL applicable Florida Statutes.

Yes the initial BOD was appointed by the declarant (developer) but that does not mean they can do whatever they want in the literal sense.

The fact that language is contained in the gov. docs. which give the declarant, in some cases, unequaled rights is proof of the fact they are 'in-play'.

When you purchase your lot and/or home you become a 'member' of the corporation with some rights as well.

The docs. may also state that the BoD may act as the ARB so this alone would not be an abuse of authority, the approval/disapproval 'meeting' would then occur at a BoD meeting.

Having closed meetings is illegal.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Seth

as someone else mentioned yes the open meeting law applies if the HOA is incorporated which it most likely is. Developer or not they have to abide by corporate law and not having open meetings or giving proper notice is a violation. With that said getting them to comply will be harder because your only recourse is probably through a court and not sure you want to take that step yet.
HerbZ (Florida)
Posts: 2
Posted:
A bottom-line, at the end. There are two important documents to refer to
1) The first is the governing documents. Generally, there are two parts: (1) Protective Covenants and (2) ByLaws. There may be amendments published over time. As a member of the HOA, you are required to be given a copy. You should read everything in detail. The ARB or ARC will be described in the document and its membership. Since you live in a developer-controlled HOA, the developer appoints the Board of the HOA, which is obligated to carry out the governing documents. Of course, that means that they can appoint themselves to the ARB/ARC and approve those decisions and any documentation that controls them.
2) The statutes of Florida that cover the HOA. Chapter 720 is available at the following link:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0720/0720.html
copy or Google search "florida statute 720" Annual meetings are covered in 720.306. Section 720.303 describes Board meetings. 720.307 sets the turnover from developer at 90% conveyed to members in all parcels -- from your data, that could be quite a while for you. Techie note: if you feel comfortable with Web activities, you can find topics by clicking "View Entire Chapter" and then use the browser function to add your search terms.

Personally, I have been quite active in trying to change some of the more owner-unfriendly statutes in developer-controlled HOAs. I've appeared before a number of legislators and distributed my proposals in YouTube form: take a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIOTAffk_aI and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEyrnnVCJpw

My experience is that it will take a group of citizen-homeowners to counteract the strength of the builders lobby in Tallahasee. If those who are reading this think it's worthwhile, I can set up a Facebook page to gather a more concerted group of homeowners and, as a group, press legislators to respond. Mark Benson has been an activist on behalf of community associations. Visit his web site at http://markrbenson.com/

HerbZ (Florida)
Posts: 2
Posted:
A bottom-line, at the end. There are two important documents to refer to
1) The first is the governing documents. Generally, there are two parts: (1) Protective Covenants and (2) ByLaws. There may be amendments published over time. As a member of the HOA, you are required to be given a copy. You should read everything in detail. The ARB or ARC will be described in the document and its membership. Since you live in a developer-controlled HOA, the developer appoints the Board of the HOA, which is obligated to carry out the governing documents. Of course, that means that they can appoint themselves to the ARB/ARC and approve those decisions and any documentation that controls them.
2) The statutes of Florida that cover the HOA. Chapter 720 is available at the following link:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0720/0720.html
copy or Google search "florida statute 720" Annual meetings are covered in 720.306. Section 720.303 describes Board meetings. 720.307 sets the turnover from developer at 90% conveyed to members in all parcels -- from your data, that could be quite a while for you. Techie note: if you feel comfortable with Web activities, you can find topics by clicking "View Entire Chapter" and then use the browser function to add your search terms.

Personally, I have been quite active in trying to change some of the more owner-unfriendly statutes in developer-controlled HOAs. I've appeared before a number of legislators and distributed my proposals in YouTube form: take a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIOTAffk_aI and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEyrnnVCJpw

My experience is that it will take a group of citizen-homeowners to counteract the strength of the builders lobby in Tallahassee. If those who are reading this think it's worthwhile, I can set up a Facebook page to gather a more concerted group of homeowners and, as a group, press legislators to respond. Mark Benson has been an activist on behalf of community associations. Visit his web site at http://markrbenson.com/

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