Storm Water Runoff from Lots

I have seen this issue and am wearing the T-shirt...It's hard to foresee water flow changes. Plus there are limits on putting solutions into place. We can't force someone to put gutters onto their home even though doing so would resolve a water flow problem. Plus this type of water issue only occurrs during rain conditions. It's usually a freak temporary flood condition. If it were a standing water issue that lasted a good bit of time, that has to be approached differently.

We had houses flood up to a few feet inside. I've had air conditioners go under water. We had 1 owner that had installed a sub-pump to prevent their home flooding. It is a REAL issue that is difficult to address. The HOA is really limited on where they can prevent/improve the conditions. There's a point where some conditions are the owner's responsibility. (I.E. Gutters, french drains, etc...)

The issue really needs to start at the APPROVAL process. Make sure the owner's have to go through an approval process BEFORE they can start the work. It's difficult to impossible to make changes if that isn't in place. It's important to talk to the neighbors next door to ask what their water problems are. I would request to observe a few days of rain incidents to see what may happen. A few days of observation and notes should help.

Make sure the member understands that they may be responsible for damages that occurr to the anyone els'e property if they are to do their project. Maybe have them sign a form acknowledging they are aware that their modification, if it were to cause damage isn't the HOA's responsibility. That may require a lawyer.

It's a difficult issue and no solid answers. It's just a temporary flooding problem that causes permanent results.

Melissa-These are very small townhouse lots and it's not hard to foresee water flow changes when you're only dealing with 400 square feet. All of our homes have gutters and many of the homeowners have the downspouts connected to drain tile that terminates out on the common areas, when they should be terminating these into water gardens and turf areas on their own property. You make a lot of assumptions here that just are not true. This is not a freak flood condition. There is standing water in the common area because there is too much water being diverted from the yards that have literrally been turned into totally concrete slabs.

Yes, we're going to try to update our design guidelines so that it mitigates this problem. IE - recommend that the owner uses permeable pavers that are not set in mortar. We also might limit the non-permeable surfaces to 75-80% of the rear yard so that some of the runoff has a way to soak into the ground. No lawyere needed here. I think that there are answers here.

If I owned a single familty home in this county and I wanted to totally pave over my front and or back yard (single family lot or townhouse), they county would certainly not allow us to do this since there are zoning laws that prevent this from happening. It's not just an appearance issue. It also has to do with managing storm water.

I'm hoping to hear from other community leaders that might have some rules that address this issue. Thanks.

Don't take it personally. You jumped the gun and made some unnecessary assumptions, but thanks for your words.

Wow nice - Great stuff, great links, great info Tim.. as always. Thanks for the links. I guess that I'm more sensitive to this issue since I've been involved with the Water Advisory Group (WAG)(for 2 years) in FFx Co which was a partnership between residents and the county in an effort to try to clean up the water in our streams which runs into the watershed from which we get our drinking water. The county is going to retrofit our storm ponds with a more effective design and possibly install some rain gardens in the common areas - (Of course all of this is contingent on funding and budget). I've also been involved with stream cleanup efforts in this area with other citizens groups. In addition, I've been trying to work with our landscaper in an effort to improve our turf in the common areas. In some areas, this has been a challenge since the homeowners are diverting so much water onto the common grounds. In terms of a resolution, we know what needs to be done and we'll just have to try to control this whenever new applications for rear yard patios come our way. We are in the process of revising out Design Guidelines, so your information and other info that I've collected, will hopefully be incorporated into the plan. To my knowledge, the county does not require a permit for a grade level patio. We don't know of any county codes that address this issue, but we're looking into it.

I was just curious if any other folks (or communities) had tried to establish guidelines. IE Limiting non-permeable surfaces to a percentage of the area of the rear yard. ....Leaving areas like rain gardens or rain barrells to handle the water....recommending permeable paver systems in lieu of concrete and mortar or other non-permeable applications.

Granted, we're not going to be able to turn back the clock with existing patios, but we can try to control this in the future.

The water problem in the common areas is so bad, homeowners are now planting their own young willow trees in the common area on top of untility easements in an effort to try to get the trees to use the excess water. We all know that this will not fly.

Again - Thanks for the links Tim - Really appreciate it!

Mike:

Our Guideline reads as follows: GUIDELINE NO. 5--Patios and Walkways

1. Applications are required for all patios and walkways per ARTICLE 6 of the Covenants.
2. All applications must include the following information:
A. A site plan showing the size and design of the patio or walkway.
B. Material to be used.
C. Relationship of the patio or walkway to the house and adjacent properties.
D. Any other information the applicant considers important.

3. The size of the patio shall be governed by its relationship to the size of the house and adjoining
property lines, and "MUST NOT EXCEED FIFTY (50) PERCENT OF THE LENGTH OF THE REAR YARD OR FIFTEEN (15)
FEET FROM THE REAR WALL, WHICHEVER IS LESS".

Sorry for the long read, but you mentioned revising your guidelines and thought the wording might be helpful.
(Especially # 3)

We have had unhappy homeowners beef a little with the restrictions on the size, but they can't be permitted to have the water runoff destroy the common areas of the Association.

Jim:

Mike:

No, we are a Private Community of 167 Townhomes. We permit decks to be no larger then '16 x '14. Patios can only take up half the yard, leaving the other half for grass. Having Decks along with a patio beneath is more then enough room for party times.

Works fine.

Jim:

Brad:

Ironic you should have 167 single family homes while our Association, is comprised of 167 Townhomes. What are the chances???
Do your 167 single family homes guidelines have any written governance on patio, yard sizes?

Jim