Contingency Attorney for rampant HOA corruption

I am looking for an attorney who is very familiar with HOA laws such as the Davis-Stirling Act, SB 61 and CA civil codes pertaining to CID's. The Board has blatantly broken the new election law SB 61 by choosing the management company to act as the Elections Inspector even though I have sent the president of the Board the necessary 5% petition to have a special meeting of the homeowners to decide upon the Elections Inspector. This has not been done and the ballots were sent out last week to the homeowners and are stored in the clubhouse. I have the necessary paperwork written that proves that the Board has broken this new bill.
The Board dropped the earthquake insurance during the August 2006 Board meeting without a quorum and without consulting the homeowners which was brought up in a heated annual meeting this month. The Board has not taken care of the widespread infestation of termites throughout the complex through preventative maintenance since the complex was originally built in 1972 which also conflicts with the Davis-Stirling Act. The Board along with the current management company (third within a year) fails to enforce the CC&R's and bylaws. The previous management company quit after just six months because the Board failed to enforce the governing documents and the new management company, goes along with the Board. The Board which has four members that have ruled for almost 20 years because of possible illegal vote counting.
The Board also performs selective enforcement of governing documents and harasses homeowners like myself who speak out against their long term illegal and vicious conduct. I am desperately seeking a knowledgeable attorney who may want to take on this case either on contingency or possibly at a reduced rate. We have accumulated a substantial amount of evidence to take on a class action lawsuit in Superior court. We have 417 units in our complex which is located in Cupertino, CA

I read your post and I think there are some areas you should do more research on yourself. There seems to be a good sized misunderstanding of what your HOA is responsible for and your MC. I am not sure you really understand the entire relationship of your role, the BOD's, and the MC's. Read a few more posts on here because you may be requiring more or putting more responsibility on an area that isn't responsible.

The MC is a Hired sub-contractor to the HOA. It is not exactly responsible for enforcing the CC&R's/By-laws. Your BOD is. They just use the MC to write the notices or do some of the paperwork on their behalf if they choose and pay for that in the contract agreement. So to blame your MC for not enforcing the rules, isn't their responsibility. They just do what they are told by the BOD.

As far as "harrassment", a letter of notification of a violation is NOT harassment. IF you left your garbage out on a Monday and the garbage gets picked up on Wednesday, they may send you a notice telling you that your not to do that. It's NOT harassment but their duty to respond to violations. How else are they to respond to a violation? I am sure you have requested violations notifications be done by the board. How do you think they do it? Telepathy? They do it in writing or in person. That's not harrassment unless they get personal and insult you without provocation. Which is fine line.

I hesitate to hire an attorney unless you have a large group behind you. It takes a majority vote of the homeowner's to make changes. IT should also take that to hire an attorney to represent you. That's because (Let's all say it togetether) WHEN YOU SUE YOUR HOA YOUR SUING YOURSELF AND YOUR NEIGHBORS. It's better to have as many neighbors on your side when or if you sue so they agree to pay the increased dues or special assessment to cover the legal bills on BOTH sides.

I think there is overall alot of confusion on your end on the responsibilities altogether. My HOA is NOT responsible for Pest control. It's usually an owner's responsibility. The earthquake insurance may be a homeowner responsibility as well. They may have dropped it to save money if it can be an individual's expense instead. Why carry more expenses on the group of owners than necessary to keep raising dues to cover.

Douglas and Suzy,

Check out the resource links from this site under Service Directory. Also, I recently saw a list of HOA attorneys (mediators) on one of my states (MD) government web sites under Alternate Dispute Resolution. The list included all attorneys who mediate, their firm, address, etc. and their specialty. There were actually a lot of HOA specialists.

I suggest you try to get your boards to mediate (talk about the issues). This would be a much more cost effective solution than jumping right into a law suit. However, if they (your boards) will not come to the table then you've already made contact with an attorney who might be able help see your issues through.

Good luck.

Douglas's original post was in September of '06, and it appears that his last post was that post (he only has a total of 6).

So, if I'm not mistaken, it is Suzy who is asking for assistance with a similar situation??

Suzy, if that is the case, could you please indicate exactly what your issues/concerns are?

Thanks.

I disagree about hiring an attorney to represent you on issues you may have with your Board. That's a bunch of hog wash (when you sue, you sue yourself)....it's only purpose is to scare you (put fear in your heart) and prevent you from taking action. Another purpose is to keep the "Status Quo" and let the Board remain omnipotent.
If the Board is not "above reproach"....nail them!
I say consult an attorney....see how many neighbors will commit to financing.You might be able to settle through mediation (non-binding)so remember you can't get attorney fees back with mediation alone ...you must go furthur. It is expensive ($5-15,000) but if you win, fees can be part of the settlement.
Warning: don't expect others joining you...maybe only a few..because most people sit back and just don't give a dam!

Former HOA President says it all. Once again I say consult an attorney and discuss your options. Mediation will be suggested as a start but in most cases you have to proceed further because of HOA Presidents who are adament about having their way and have a bad case of "Boarditis." Most are simp0ly volunteers and some how think because they are on a Board that somw how they are infused with superior intelligence.
Most HOA DO have an "in house" atorney to advise these "amatuer" Board members on many issues because the Board members DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING!

Former HOA President says it all. Once again I say consult an attorney and discuss your options. Mediation will be suggested as a start but in most cases you have to proceed further because of HOA Presidents who are adamant about having their way and have a bad case of "Boarditis." Most are simp0ly volunteers and some how think because they are on a Board that somehow they are infused with superior intelligence.
Most HOA DO have an "in house" attorney to advise these "amateur" Board members on many issues because the Board members DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING!
Do not sit back passively...that's what the Board is counting on...they know there is a serious case of apathy and they can pretty much do as they please!

Your right Mary, I just woke up one day and decided I want to be a board member and rule them all! Yes, you caught me and all the other board members in a HOA that we are up to no good and look out only for ourselves! Any member that gets in my way is just a pain and should be shot down for expressing themselves. That's way I always approached things. Never fair or listening. It's just the way to be on a HOA BOD. Gosh, your sooo perceptive!

You know WHY the BOD gets their way??? It's because of OWNER APATHY!!! It's because the people who are ON their BOD are the Owner's who understand the importance of their home values and want to be involved in making sure they stay at or above value. The people on your HOA BOD are VOLUNTEERS who want to be there so they do have a say in their community. If the BOD is acting wrong, it's because of the majority of Apathetic homeowners who don't keep them in line. The one's that do complain, usually are the one's not getting their way. Wouldn't it be a Perfect world if we all got what we wanted?

HOA's do NOT need attorneys to tell them how to do business. The business of the HOA is already in the documentation spelled out in black and white. I only consulted attorneys because I am NOT a practicioner of the law and have NO license to practice law. An attorney is hired to do just that, practice and know the law. If your HOA is depending on consulting lawyers and MC's it's because they are inexperienced volunteers who need help and should be directed to come here for advice or given a book.

I don't expect a stay-at-home mother of 3 to even begin to comprehend how to run a HOA or corporation. That's beyond their scope or knowledge in most cases. Why hold people in BOD to a higher standard or expect professionalism from the lady/man next door? When your dealing with your HOA, your dealing with your neighobrs and not professional homeowner's with all the answers to all your questions. Guess what? Some of us that's been a on a board, need to look up the answers just like you did! It doesn't come naturally to run a HOA. Besides, you as a member are always ONE STEP from being a BOD member yourself. Try it sometime and see what criticisms you face on a daily basis for the SAME opinions you have now.

So Mary, do you want to be on the board? You'd better be careful of what you wish for because you might become one of us! The evil doers of HOA's with secret agenda's that somehow always get brought to light no matter how we try to do it underhandidly in an open meeting.

I find it funny that someone will announce they are running for a board position and promise if they become a board member they will cut out corruption and put in a playground! Sound great! However, NOW when they become a board member getting rid of corruption and putting in a playground is now an "Agenda" plan they have to screw the HOA out of money. How dare they hire a HOA consultant with our money and put in a playground to have our kids fall down and sue us!

To be a board member you must live and die on that double-edged sword! Who's to say if your ideas aren't your own personal "agenda" if you were to get elected today? Your complaint about your board members will be the SAME complaints members will have against you. Are you prepared to handle that on a daily basis? So I would criticize from the outside gently, calmly, and with a touch of reality.

You know, I've been on BOTH sides of the fence in my HOA. I've been a board member, Vice-President, and President. I have also been just a plain old member who's dealing with a BAAAD BOD. Do I think a HOA BOD has an "agenda". I am sure they do. However, atleast the BOD has a direction and people willing to work on their agenda's. They don't just sit around from the outside and complain and do nothing but wallow in their own frustrations. Even if it's the wrong idea, atleast something is being done and I am not wallowing in everyone elses Drama. Drama doesn't make success, decisions good/bad do.

Mary,
I read your story on that URL.

The 57 million living in HOA in 2006 is certainly worthy of some contemplation. As shown, this number is on the increase. The Association are creatures of the developers, not the homeowners, and as such, it is amazzing we can function at all. We buy into the association that has a stacked deck. The Boards are willing, for the most part, to govern as if these laws that they live under have been handed down from the mount. In truth they are just a conglameration of a bunch of folks trying to legislate for their personal agenda. As time passes pressure will be put on the states to get rid of the developers manuscript to maximize profits and control (same thing). You can see the results of some states taking a revisit to what they have wroth. HOA should be taking hard looks at their documents and make a concerted effort to rewrite the legislation that keeps them from operating in a reasonable manner. So, I preceive that a lot of unhappines goes right through the board to the real culprit, the states blotched attempt to regulate something that is wway outside what they failed to see coming down the road. It will come as soon as enough people see the real problem with HOA living. Instead of being an isolated entity, the HOAs should be a force in the community. Dell Web in Sun City, Hilton Head comes to mind. As a community they have the numbers to effect most political elections in the country and they don't mind telling the pols.

OMG. HOAs are not Developer Sales Tools. More often than not the developers have to create deed restrictions and a mechanism for enforcing them due to local city zoning and planning regulations on new growth and planned development. For many, they'd much rather just subdivide, sell to builders and move on.

The majority of HOAs in OUR neck of the woods provide NO amenities at all. No pools. No clubhouses. No tennis courts. No gazebos. Condo associations may be different, but that's where you have to be very careful using that "broad brush."

They DO provide a BLUEPRINT through the CC&Rs on what the appearance of the neighborhood should generally look like and how certain behaviors of individuals living there are to be dealt with in order to prevent neighborhood decline.

I also disagree with Mary, however, regarding the altruistic board being the exception.

Our community holds 2 conferences a year, sponsored by our local Metro government. In fact, we have a government department titled "Neighborhoods," whose primary mission is to assist neighborhoods and HOAs and their leaders in operating a well-run organization.

They have seminars, symposiums, workshops, most free or with a nominal charge.

Do you get cranky, controlling people on boards? Maybe was true years ago, but we don't find that to be the case anymore. People invest too much into their homes and the risk of losing it these days is apparently pretty high.

Just take a look at what our local government is doing to assist those pathetic, controlling, no-life neighborhood leaders:

http://www.louisvilleky.gov/Neighborhoods/

Looks like a pretty healthy and substantial resource that is HIGHLY utilized by neighborhood leaders of ALL types in our community, INCLUDING HOA BODs.

pARAGRAPH #1 REPLY: We could well afford our own pool, outside membership for tennis (which we have @ another club)also pay dockage for our own boat (if we chose to have a boat) plus we like to select our own restaurants outside the developement instead of paying a set fee for meals @ the club. No..the ammenties were not the draw for us, we prefer to travel so we chose a community that was GATED for security with fewer ammenties that would be relatively inexpensive to subsidize for the other residents.

I would like to point out that Melissa makes a lot of assumptions...have you heard the expression "only fools assume." Please try and remember this.

Paragraph #2 REPLY: Our transition was well organized compared to some. We did our homework and found out how much we would need in reserves...hired an in-house attorney for guidance etc.

P #3...spoken like a true Board member...those who do "Get It" get control of the HOA and control the other members...Precisely what I've said before. You only have to look @ your local and federal government to see what a governing body is good at: they look out for themselves first: best pay raises, best health care plan, best retirement. An HOA is just a microcoism of our federal government.

P#4...Here you go again Melissa, making an assumption...No where did I say what to sue for...of course if you painted your house without approval of the ARB committee that would be in direct violation of rules/documents (our HOA has a committee to chose the color and that's it). But if yor BOD disregards the DOCUMENTS and flaunts their authority....operates in secrecy....does not keep the community informed...ignores residents.this is serious! Major being not following the documents....then you need to consult and shop for an attorney to advise you. These are serious issues coming from a negligent, incompetent Board. This is the first time this coommunity has pursued litigation in 19 yrs that I know of.....the rug they've been sweeping things under is now too small to cover their (Board) misdeeds. If you had cancer, would you just appeal to your doctor to change the diagnosis or would you get a second oppinion and find out what could be done to restore you to health again

I agree with Mary. I was treasurer on our Board, provided updates to the community on the finances and wrote articles in the newsletter on that and other areas of interest for the community. What I found was that the President ignored two legal interpretations of the insurance portion of our documents because it would cost him an assessment. After I was off the board, a board member did not run for re-election when his term expired, but rather continued on the board as an illegal member. Even after I pointed this out to him and the other board members until I forced the issue by having a board member take this situation to the Association lawyer. Once the lawyer ruled on this, the illegal member then "resigned", which was a laugh, since he was not legal in the first place. Many times you have no choice but to bring legal action against a board or board member in order to have them abide by the documents. I have found, like Mary that many people serve on the board for what they can get out of it, not for the betterment of the community. Many of those residing in the community do not get involved or seem to care about what is going on (much like with our government) and therefore, it is up to the few who want documents to be followed and watch what the board is doing that must take up the cause to keep them on the straight and narrow. Currently, we are pursuing litigation. After exhausting all other avenues, the board still wants to interpret the documents to their benefit at the detriment of the rest of the community. This has become an a cause in letting this and future boards know that this will not be tolerated any longer.

Can everyone agree that the advice they post is for the benefit of the folks that write in asking answers. We have no real way of identifing (ass u me is to make an ass of you and me, so they say, I don't think I believe that to be true all the time), who is right and who is wrong as far as the big picture is concerned. It would appear more members than BOD write for advice (observation, nothing more). And it can't be a game to see who can make the most posts without being wrong, I would win that. So, after a fashion, it should be about learning more about what we all consider an important issue. I would hate to see anyone leave the site here because they just couldn't stand someone else. Part of what we all preach around here is the value of give and take and negogiation. We should practice what we preach. The cream rises to the top.

So I guess there will never be competent BOD members or HOA's? What a shame. Because, I thought that everyone should try to get along and work for the betterment of their community. However, if everyone the members elect are so incompetent and stupid, I guess that may be a reflection of what you have to choose from in your community.

As for me, I choose to "Love thy neighbor" like the good book says, and let God doing the judging. I admit that I am not perfect and will let anyone know that in a heartbeat. I don't assume anything as anything can go. My advice has to have a direction so that later more relevant facts will come out. No one here knows the whole story about anyone or anything. We can only go from what we are told and what experience we may have had in that general area. Assumptions are what anyone makes of them.

I am done with this argument. There's no way to ever get some people to see that BOD member or not, we are all neighbors and owners living together in a HOA who make mistakes and can learn from eachother. It doesn't make one more incompetent than another. It just makes us HUMAN.

Lisa,
No problem with everyone entitled to an opinion, but right or wrong stretches the purpose of this site and any other site that is well managed.
We, hopefully, are dedicated to provide good advice, not good and bad advice. Granted, if you provide advice to the best of your knowledge, thats all you can do. But the checks and balances on this site provide smart people that may know more than we do, and don't mind telling us. That is also the reason this site is effective, I welcome corrections and comments.

LisaS.....you are so right...you are a girl that knows REALITY!

Mary, You certainly have some issues but I don't understand why you bring them here. Look at the top of the page. After "Welcome to HOATalk.com!"

Do you fit into this target audience (community association leaders)? Or did you join HOATalk just to complain about your HOA? Did you read your CC&Rs before you purchased your property or do you have buyer's remorse?

There are many websites for disgruntled homeowners to post their gripes and wallow in their collective misery. Why not just take your rants where they are welcome?

Mary, You certainly have some issues but I don't understand why you bring them here. Look at the top of the page. After "Welcome to HOATalk.com!"

MY PRIMARY REASON WAS TO SEEK INFO FROM OTHERS WHO HAVE BEEN FORCED TO GO TO LITIGATION BECAUSE OF A CORRUPT BOARD...GOING TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD...YOU WOULD SEE THAT MELISSA SAYS THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO PURSUE LITIGATION...THIS IS NO HELP

Do you fit into this target audience (community association leaders)? Or did you join HOATalk just to complain about your HOA? Did you read your CC&Rs before you purchased your property or do you have buyer's remorse? !
YES..2.NO..3.YES...4.NO

There are many websites for disgruntled homeowners to post their gripes and wallow in their collective misery. Why not just take your rants where they are welcome?

HOW NASTY....YOU CAN ALWAYS TELL WHEN YOU HIT SOMEONE'S HOT BUTTON...LOOKS LIKE IT WAS TOO CLOSE TO HOME FOR YOU.
WAIT UNTIL YOU'VE BEEN ON THE BOARD MORE YEARS,SEEN TURN-OVER OF RESIDENTS, GOTTEN THAT BAD APPLE ON BOARD. I INVITE YOU TO COME TO ONE OF OUR BOARD MEETINGS ...YOU'D BE APPALLED! I THINK YOU FIT INTO THE CATAGORY OF NEVER GO TO LITIGATION SO THERE'S NO POINT IN ASKING FOR INFO HERE.

MaryB4,

Lord knows I am no big fan of ineffective boards, and I sense none would argue with that. You don't have to agree with everyone here to benefit from the site. Some forget the Board is under the gun, just as the city council is under the gun. I don't always agree with them either. I don't expect the board to agree with me all the time. Dr. Phil says, "No matter how thin you make a pancake, it will have two sides." But we do not live in HOA's to right all wrongs in six weeks. We normally don't pick our neighbors and sometimes they don't please us, but most of the time a little patience results in a more congenial relationship, just like the relationship with a board. We can change the board easier than we can change our neighbors if we elect to stay put. Your Board may need some new members, I don't know, but my experience is that if any elected official is left too long in office, they will become ineffective. We have term limits for president, in an HOA we should have term limits for all board members. But, what you have and what you should have don't always turn out that way. I also believe Mary, we are suffering from bad legislation through-out the world of HOA's. It is changing little by little now, but when the scale of numbers of people start to weigh in there is going to be major changes, probably from the Feds on down, and the states will have similar documents.

All this means is we have to realize this is a long term comittment and we just have to keep knocking at the door and take one step at a time. If you have a bad Board member, remove him, you may have to demonstrate your crtedibility to do this, but don't paint the site or your HOA with a big brush, use a little one.

Thanks Robert, for being the voice of reason and not taking everything personally.
There is a time and place for litigation and in some instances that's all you have left.
Surf the web and you'll see that there is more dissatisfaction with HOA Boards than ever before. (smallest brush I could find)

I too am on the Board for my Association - President. I became President because no-one else would do it. I am probably incompetent at it, but I never claimed competence. I certainly make my best earnest effort to acquit my duties and represent the wishes of the Members in accordance with our bylaws, etc. One thing I have found is that on any given issue, for each possible 'side', there are going to be adherents, ***and*** whatever decision the Board ends up making, more often than not there is at least one person (often several) among those whose 'side lost', who will allege or imply Board corruption, hubris, etc. This is not to say Board members aren't human, that our own biases, perception colorings, etc. don't inform our decisions. But I know I'm not corrupt, and I have seen zero indication that any of my fellow Board Members are corrupt.

I would agree 100% with MelissaB about some stuff. It seems like some (not all, not the majority, but some) Members view the Board as 'owners and landlords', and seem to think that we make decisions to benefit ourselves. As an example, we have Members who are just not paying their dues: they are not going through hard times, they are not withholding dues because they believe they are not owed; they simply are not paying them, despite repeated attempts to reasonably work out a solution. When we floated the idea to begin to enforce dues paying more strictly - by levying penalties, and in extreme cases getting liens and suspending privileges that the dues paid for (like parking, etc.), there were Members in good standing who nevertheless wrote us emails saying these were 'Gestapo-like' tactics. The wierd thing to me about this is: those who refuse to pay their dues are adversely affecting ***the entire community***, not just a couple of Board Members. Our Association, like a lot of Associations, does not have nearly enough in reserves just to deal with the known 'aging issues' - a cracked parking lot that has about five years of structural soundness left, a pool whose bottom is shifting and probably not 'up to code', etc. - not to mention the recommended amount to deal with contingencies and emergencies, etc. And we currently have over $40,000 of outstanding dues. So those who don't pay their dues are unfairly forcing ***the entire community*** to subsidize them. Yet perfectly reasonable measures to act in the Association's interest are viewed by some as 'Gestapo-like'. I just don't get it.

So the short of my long-winded rant? If you are a Member and you don't like how things are going, ****get involved****. If the Board truly is corrupt or is acting 180 degrees contrary to the general wishes of the Members, there are mechanisms to deal with that - approximate and not immediate, but very effective. And I'm no expert, but my general experience 'with the world' says that solving issues as amicably as possible is better for everyone involved. And logically it is true: when you sue your HOA you are suing yourself. Anyone can quibble over the semantics, but no-one can argue that you are not going to have to help foot the very same legal bill that you are having to create.

This posting might be contrary to the purposes of the forum, but this is my first visit and after reading the thread there was no way I could ***not*** post my opinion; I appreciate the lenience.

"Treat them like you want them to treat you. You come to a meeting with a negative attitude calling everyone incompetent expect the same treatment of you from them."

"If you had a good friend and neighbor on that board would appreciate someone calling them names and incompetent? I think not."

omg - that is really rich coming from you. I've seen 3 discussions you've "participated" in (one of them being mine) and in each one you've been pretentious (always reminding everyone MULTIPLE TIMES you were a Former President) and argumentative and ALWAYS assume the person who asked the question/started the thread is either mistaken, stupid or just doesn't "get it" like you do. So YOU reminding people not to do just that, i.e. treat everyone as an incompetent and call them names, is truly hypocritical on your part.

I'm curious why you felt it necessary to have a male nom de plume. Did he serve as your backup to validate all your claims? My guess is probably so.

You have a serious problem lady - you're a very narcissitic individual with visions of grandeur. The usual reason for that is to be your own cheerleading squad to pump up your deflated ego and lack of feelings of self-worth.

YOU need help. The kind you won't get here because nothing anyone says to you makes a difference. Everyone else is wrong and you're always right.

Good luck surviving life with that attitude.