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Subject: Barking Dog Complaint must go before Board before letter sent?
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Author Messages
NicoleO4


Posts:0


07/23/2008 4:26 PM  
Hello... this struck me as odd.


I am a board member and a homeowner. Last night my neighbors dog was left on his balcony all night long. Nobody was home. The result? COmplete sleep deprevation due to barking.

Valid complaint. I emailed our board and manager and asked that a letter go out for disturbance. I have seen people call in complaints like a dog, stereo ect.. and the management company takes thier complaint with merit and sends out the letter.

Today I emailed the manager and board expecting the same response. However.. the president emailed this back to me.

***" you should send a letter or email to Paragon and then she forwards the info to me. No action was taken against #104 "based on merit." Action was taken based upon the responses of the Board members and my speaking with that homeowner as well. "**

I had this clarified meaning that all complaints of this sort must go before the board in a letter form to be ok'd or not ok'd for a letter to the homeowners. I personally do not agree with this, and have never seen the board request that they authorize complaint letters regarding noise go before the board to assess for merit.

Advice?
GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)

Posts:975


07/23/2008 4:56 PM  
Odd, indeed. I think this illustrates the need for a clear and well documented policy on (1) what to do about such audible disturbances, and (2) what procedures to follow.

If the policy were in writing--and distributed to all owners/residents, it would be clear what action the board has determined is the correct way to move forward--and what will trigger the application of the policy.

The role of a well-functioning board is to establish policy and to evaluate performance/adherence to policy. I don't think boards of directors work best when they operate as psuedo-executive committees that have to vote on every action that is taken. So many HOA problems could be alleviated if boards would focus their efforts at the policy level rather than management level.

Hope this help.
TonyM3
(Arizona)

Posts:170


07/23/2008 5:18 PM  
Posted By NicoleO4 on 07/23/2008 4:26 PM
the president emailed this back to me...No action was taken against #104 "based on merit." Action was taken based upon the responses of the Board members and my speaking with that homeowner as well.

Is this the same President that couldn't say anything when he allegedly witnessed dog poop being launched from a fourth floor balcony?

By sending the dog poop lady a letter and not the dog bark lady, what the board is basically saying is- the president/board member is a more credible witness than you as a board member are. Don'tcha love politics??
NicoleO4


Posts:0


07/23/2008 6:03 PM  
The poop infraction is going to reviewed by the board.. as is my noise complaint.

I took matters int omy own hands.. I callled the human society today... they will be followed up in regards to this.
TonyM3
(Arizona)

Posts:170


07/23/2008 6:31 PM  
Interesting because in your last doog poop situation update you stated, "It's been handled. Our management company did indeed mail out a letter today."

Sounds more like a spoiled dog rather than inhumane treatment.

NicoleO4


Posts:0


07/23/2008 6:42 PM  
Doesn't matter. the dog was out all night.. barking. The Humane Society are involved at this point..
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


07/23/2008 7:21 PM  
Why didn't you call the police WHEN the dog was barking? I would imagine a barking dog is a violation of some city ordinance, at least it is here.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TonyM3
(Arizona)

Posts:170


07/23/2008 8:10 PM  
That's what our policy is as well. A police report is one of the best pieces of supporting evidence to be used if the HOA plans to take action. Our neighborhood watch also makes sure that everybody has the precinct number and doesn't use 911 emergency for non-emergency situations. Keep those lines and operators free to handle real emergencies.
NicoleO4


Posts:0


07/23/2008 11:57 PM  
RE: Barking Dog Complaint must go before Board before letter sent?
Message: That's what our policy is as well. A police report is one of the best pieces of supporting evidence to be used if the HOA plans to take action. Our neighborhood watch also makes sure that everybody has the precinct number and doesn't use 911 emergency for non-emergency situations. Keep those lines and operators free to handle real emergencies.
.....
That is fine in the ideal situation, but as I stated.. the homeowner was NOT home.... so calling the police would of done NOTHING>
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


07/24/2008 6:35 AM  
Posted By NicoleO4 on 07/23/2008 11:57 PM
RE: Barking Dog Complaint must go before Board before letter sent?
Message: That's what our policy is as well. A police report is one of the best pieces of supporting evidence to be used if the HOA plans to take action. Our neighborhood watch also makes sure that everybody has the precinct number and doesn't use 911 emergency for non-emergency situations. Keep those lines and operators free to handle real emergencies.
.....
That is fine in the ideal situation, but as I stated.. the homeowner was NOT home.... so calling the police would of done NOTHING>





Um. I beg to differ. I think maybe it would have, done "something," that is.

It would have generated a police report that would then be a paper trail and unbiased record of the situation should further action be needed or if the homeowner contested it or claimed harassment.

TonyM3
(Arizona)

Posts:170


07/24/2008 12:35 PM  
It's important to get to know your neighbors. A dog barking incessantly could indicate the homeowner is somehow in distress. That's another reason it makes sense to call police.
KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1665


07/24/2008 2:34 PM  
Doesn't matter. the dog was out all night.. barking. The Humane Society are involved at this point..



Sorry, but this does not equate to abuse of the animal. But I would land with the "call the police" crowd should it happen again. But I would speak to my neighbor first explaining that I didn't get any sleep. And yes, I have gone to my next door neighbor a little past midnight to complain about his dog. The problem disappeared. He seemed the think that was a lot nicer then calling the police.

Later he asked if I called the police when the dog on the other side of him was left out. Someone did and when the police went up to his fence his dog started barking. I told him no, I would have woken him up to shut the dog up. I also mentioned it to his neighbor when I saw her. She felt horrible and found another solution the next time.

People make mistakes. I make mistakes. I don't want to be a bad neighbor and figure that if I can resolve a situation (or prevent one) by talking to others it is best.
NicoleO4


Posts:0


07/25/2008 7:17 AM  
Posted By KirkW1 on 07/24/2008 2:34 PM
Doesn't matter. the dog was out all night.. barking. The Humane Society are involved at this point..



Sorry, but this does not equate to abuse of the animal. But I would land with the "call the police" crowd should it happen again. But I would speak to my neighbor first explaining that I didn't get any sleep. And yes, I have gone to my next door neighbor a little past midnight to complain about his dog. The problem disappeared. He seemed the think that was a lot nicer then calling the police.

Later he asked if I called the police when the dog on the other side of him was left out. Someone did and when the police went up to his fence his dog started barking. I told him no, I would have woken him up to shut the dog up. I also mentioned it to his neighbor when I saw her. She felt horrible and found another solution the next time.

People make mistakes. I make mistakes. I don't want to be a bad neighbor and figure that if I can resolve a situation (or prevent one) by talking to others it is best.




Kirk I hear you.
But people well are just dim at times. If I can hear the dog, so can they.... seriously I don't live above her, but a unit or two over. Some people just fall short in the iq pool
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


07/25/2008 7:57 AM  
Posted By NicoleO4 on 07/23/2008 11:57 PM

That is fine in the ideal situation, but as I stated.. the homeowner was NOT home.... so calling the police would of done NOTHING>





Posted By NicoleO4 on 07/25/2008 2:34 PM

But people well are just dim at times. If I can hear the dog, so can they.... seriously I don't live above her, but a unit or two over. Some people just fall short in the iq pool





I'm confused. If the homewoner wasn't home, then how would she/he have heard it? Or is this about more than the all-night instance?

If so, then still, calling the police (dispatch possibly, not 911) would be helpful. After all, a noise violation IS a noise violation, and they can still document if the homeowner is not home, and they can knock on the door and alert the homeowner that a condition exists if they are.

In our community the Humane Society has no "enforcement" or other responsibility.

We do have an Animal Control department of county government with enforcement officers, however. They are not affiliated with the Humane Society, though, they are an actual department of our local government.

If you have something like that, I might recommend you going that route as well.



EllenS1
(Florida)

Posts:1148


07/25/2008 8:43 AM  
The management company may just not want to deal with all owners directly to save their time but have complaints go through the board. Our old managment company even had a clause in their contract that they deal only with the president and not the entire board.
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


07/25/2008 10:23 AM  
Ellen requiring all communication go through the Board president is not unusual. In the hierarchy of the Board there are officers with specific functions but in reality they are all directors of the corporation and each has the same power as another i.e. one vote. So if you get Sally calling the MC on Monday demanding they do this and Joe calls later the same day demanding they do that and Fred sends an email telling them not to do anything; just who would they listen to?

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1665


07/25/2008 11:57 AM  
The management company may just not want to deal with all owners directly to save their time but have complaints go through the board. Our old managment company even had a clause in their contract that they deal only with the president and not the entire board.



Sorry, but that seems like a waste of management company. Why not hire a part time admin assistant instead? I see dealing with members as a large part of why we pay what we do to the management company. The owners can call the management company and speak with the manager. She can take their information and if need be pass it tot he board. Or (in the case of a complaint like this) send a letter out to tell the owner that someone has complained.
EllenS1
(Florida)

Posts:1148


07/25/2008 7:15 PM  
Glen.

You have that right. I understand why management companies should not act on whatever any homeowner or board member says. They need to take direction from a specific person who they has the authority. One board member here told the management company to turn off our sprinkler system even tho at the last meeting the board told the management company the board did not want the sprinkler system turned off since our landscaper turned them off for months causing some plants to wilt or die. So you can see the fix the management company would have been in if they followed that board member's instruction. Just imagine if all of 101 owners called the company telling them to either turn off the sprinklers or leave them on. Absolute chaos.
EllenS1
(Florida)

Posts:1148


07/25/2008 7:24 PM  
Kirk,

I guess it depends on how much you want to pay a management company. If you want them to get involved in every phone call from every owner..the fee goes up. Or if the board and management company work in tandem ...the fee goes down. HOAS are paying for the time the management company expends..they are not non-profits. The HOA pays for their time.
BrianK1
(Colorado)

Posts:54


01/01/2009 4:11 PM  
What actions has a county Animal Control department taken in these situations?
FrancescaM
(Washington)

Posts:264


01/01/2009 4:50 PM  
Posted By BrianK1 on 01/01/2009 4:11 PM
What actions has a county Animal Control department taken in these situations?



http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/Default.aspx

I do know Nicole has NOT posted here in months.. however, in my experience, a warning letter goes out to the pet's owner. It can lead up to court and fines if nothing is done to remedy the situation.
MaryA1


Posts:0


01/01/2009 4:52 PM  
I doubt animal control would get involved unless it was a viscous dog. Here is how the city where I live handles barking dog complaints. From our city code book:

(f) No person shall keep a dog within the city limits which is in the habit of barking or howling or disturbing the peace and quiet of any neighborhood within the city. A violation of this subsection shall only be established on the following except that the city prosecutor, in his/her discretion, may waive or require additional evidence as needed on a case by case basis.
(1) At least four (4) persons from separate households directly affected by the nuisance correctly complete and return to the city all petitions, logs and other required documentation;
(2) The city prosecutor approves all petitions, logs and other required documentation and following review of all material evidence, it is determined that reasonable grounds exist to successfully prosecute;
(3) The persons whose names are listed on all petitions, logs and other required documentation provide sworn testimony.
FrancescaM
(Washington)

Posts:264


01/01/2009 4:56 PM  
Posted By MaryA1 on 01/01/2009 4:52 PM
I doubt animal control would get involved unless it was a viscous dog. Here is how the city where I live handles barking dog complaints. From our city code book:

(f) No person shall keep a dog within the city limits which is in the habit of barking or howling or disturbing the peace and quiet of any neighborhood within the city. A violation of this subsection shall only be established on the following except that the city prosecutor, in his/her discretion, may waive or require additional evidence as needed on a case by case basis.
(1) At least four (4) persons from separate households directly affected by the nuisance correctly complete and return to the city all petitions, logs and other required documentation;
(2) The city prosecutor approves all petitions, logs and other required documentation and following review of all material evidence, it is determined that reasonable grounds exist to successfully prosecute;
(3) The persons whose names are listed on all petitions, logs and other required documentation provide sworn testimony.





This is a city by city law of course. Here where I live.. you can go to court for nusance barking... especially if NOTHING has been done after steps taken.
BrianK1
(Colorado)

Posts:54


01/01/2009 5:22 PM  
Thanks. I found my county's Barking Page:

http://www.mesacounty.us/animalservices/barking.aspx
EllenS1
(Florida)

Posts:1148


01/18/2009 5:15 PM  
Kirk,

I agree. I had a dog that didn't bark until he was over a year old. He was out in the yard in the afternoon and my neighbor called, said her little one was taking a nap and my dog was barking. I could have taken offense and was unaware of this and so apologized and simply kept him in the house. Much better to solve this between neighbors. When the little girl moved in she was petrified of dogs and ended up loving him and asked if she could go on walks when I took her out. Instead of a confrontation we became good neighbors.
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


01/18/2009 5:25 PM  
Posted By EllenS1 on 01/18/2009 5:15 PM
Kirk,

I agree. I had a dog that didn't bark until he was over a year old. He was out in the yard in the afternoon and my neighbor called, said her little one was taking a nap and my dog was barking. I could have taken offense and was unaware of this and so apologized and simply kept him in the house. Much better to solve this between neighbors. When the little girl moved in she was petrified of dogs and ended up loving him and asked if she could go on walks when I took her out. Instead of a confrontation we became good neighbors.






Dear Ellen:

That's probably because your neighbor was dealing with a reasonable human being with a rational thought process.

Not all neighbors are that "neighborly."

Second to parking complaints, dog barking is our next most popular HOA complaint.

It is a rare occasion when the barking can be silenced with the courtesy and sensitivity with which you handled yours.

We had one case go all the way to court. The dogs were ordered off the property. (three of them - big boys, too)

But never underestimate the paint-peeling power of a tiny lap puppy, either!

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