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Subject: Association documents/authorization?
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RichardL7
(Colorado)

Posts:92


08/17/2021 8:13 AM  
Your assistance, please.
I have been informed by a management company that the contract that was signed between the HOA board and the management company for our association is not authorized for viewing by homeowners. Appreciate any comments in regards to this.
PS. Could the freedom of information act be applied to this? If denial is forthcoming.

Condominium owner in Colorado.
Thanks friends.
Rich. HOA home owner.
BarbaraT1
(Texas)

Posts:571


08/17/2021 8:17 AM  
FOIA only applies to the federal government.

What do your state statutes say about a member's right to inspect association records in a condominium association? What do your governing documents say on this topic?
AugustinD


Posts:1695


08/17/2021 9:02 AM  
Posted By RichardL7 on 08/17/2021 8:13 AM
Your assistance, please.
I have been informed by a management company that the contract that was signed between the HOA board and the management company for our association is not authorized for viewing by homeowners. Appreciate any comments in regards to this. ...Could the freedom of information act be applied to this? If denial is forthcoming. ... Condominium owner in Colorado. ... HOA home owner.
-- The Colorado Common Interest Ownership Act (CCIOA) likely applies, but you need to confirm this.

-- The CCIOA requires that a condo/HOA association permit owners to inspect "current written contracts to which the association is a party and contracts for work performed for the association within the immediately preceding two years;" See section 38-33.3-317. at https://statecodesfiles.justia.com/colorado/2019/title-38/title-38.pdf and check for up-to-date-ness.

-- The Colorado Condo Act and the Colorado Nonprofit Corporation Act list specific records which an owner is entitled to inspect. Contracts is not among them. But if the CCIOA applies, then this does not matter. CCIOA Section 38-33.3-319. says the CCIOA controls when there is a conflict.

-- Please clarify about being both a condo owner and a HOA owner. Is this question about a condominium association or not? Often this determines which statutes determine the answer to a question.
RichardL7
(Colorado)

Posts:92


08/17/2021 9:16 AM  
Yes I am a condo owner for 26 years. I have tried to make sense of our bylaws, documents and related state information related to condominiums and associations. The great problem I have at this time. His vision. My eyesight is extremely bad. It is extremely difficult to go through these bylaws and related documents and those from the state. I have tried but the eyesight is so bad I have to stop, – – as most everybody knows there's a lot of reading.

Just trying to figure out where I stand on this.
Rich.
AugustinD


Posts:1695


08/17/2021 9:31 AM  
RichardL7, was your condominium created after July 1, 1992?
AugustinD


Posts:1695


08/17/2021 9:46 AM  
RichardL7,

-- I see your condo came into existence on or around 1982, per https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/131373/view/topic/Default.aspx.

-- However the CCIOA section I cited above appears to apply to all Colorado condos, regardless of date of creation. See https://altitude.law/resources/newsletter/inspection-association-records/, which states in part, "[the CCIOA section on records] applies to all common interest communities regardless of when they came into existence.

-- I suggest you write a letter like the following to the manager, and send it certified mail, return receipt requested:


Dear COA Manager,

Pursuant to the Colorado Common Interest Ownership Act (CCIOA) section 38-33.3-317, please provide me a time when I may inspect and copy as needed the current written contract between the association and the management company. Please respond within ten days to this request.

Thank you,

Richard ___
address
email addie
phone number
RichardL7
(Colorado)

Posts:92


08/17/2021 3:40 PM  
Hello again:
you're on the ball, our required documents after the construction of the condominiums was 1984. I believe they were registered That year. I'm sure that they were started in 1982 but you're correct, you're so close to the year I would want to argue that. I will go ahead and try and look to see what happens. Thank you all for your help and I will give this a try and later on let you know the outcome.
Rich.
MichaelS56
(Minnesota)

Posts:279


08/17/2021 4:21 PM  
What are the reason(s) for the Property Management company claiming this contract is not to be shared with the Owners. It that stipulated in the contract? The Property Management company works for the Board and the Board is responsible to the Owners.
RichardL7
(Colorado)

Posts:92


08/18/2021 9:49 AM  
First, as to the board or Association. They continually ignore the request of homeowners in regards to the derelict of duties by the management company. Two board members have already resigned due to these problems and the (related stress).

Presently I have documentation where they (the board) have constantly given the management company One or more chance, this is despite the obvious dereliction of duty and breach of contract and it constantly cost the Association more monies, this has proven to true. The board is stipulating their own personal agenda on what will be done. As for the request of the homeowners and the failure of the management company to honor and implement our bylaws and documents there seems to be no out . It has been a long time, well over a year and certain information in regards to our documentation is not changed at all, information related to the old management company and after repeated requests to do so.

Enclosed you will see a copy of the statements from the management company and I have removed the name for a little respect to the management company which they really don't deserve. Statement from the management company is as follows.

In regards to the XXXXXXX contract, it is not available for homeowners review as it is a contract between the Board and XXXXXXX . There is an inspection of records policy per your governing policies where you can submit a detailed request and a form to review documents and we can set up an appointment for you to visit our office to review the requested documents. Please reference section 4 of the Governance Policies.

As I stated, the management company's name was left out. I fully understood that certain information on the Association was available on request. But, to the management company That was not my question. My question was straightforward, do I have authorization to review the contract that was signed between the condominium complex and your management company?

Bottom line, their answer was no. In the many years years I have lived in the Association. This is what I understood in regards to our documents. First, and foremost all documentation is authorized for review by homeowner as long as it is not, and I repeat not related to a specific unit, rental unit, or person. That is to be strictly confidential information in regards to that owner. That I fully understand, it's none of my business. That information or complaint is strictly confidential between the board, management company and that owner.

sorry about a slow response, but as my vision is extremely limited. I rely upon Windows 10 and the ability to to expand the screen and enlarge all communications, if it was not for that I would not be able to be on this website.
Dear friends, I thank you.
Rich.
AugustinD


Posts:1695


08/18/2021 10:07 AM  
Posted By RichardL7 on 08/18/2021 9:49 AM

Bottom line, their answer was no. In the many years years I have lived in the Association. This is what I understood in regards to our documents. First, and foremost all documentation is authorized for review by homeowner as long as it is not, and I repeat not related to a specific unit, rental unit, or person. That is to be strictly confidential information in regards to that owner. That I fully understand, it's none of my business. That information or complaint is strictly confidential between the board, management company and that owner.
-- First and foremost, and in my experience, if you wish to continue pursuing this, I believe you are stuck with hiring an attorney. Is spending $500 to a few thousand dollars on an attorney worth it to you? Chances are this would not go to court, so you would not be entitled to attorney fees. Meaning you likely would not get back anything you spent on an attorney.

-- Second, in my experience you should be relying on the aforementioned Colorado statute's incredibly specific provision that you are entitled to see the current written contract. You should wield Section 38-33.3-317. like a cudgel. That you do not understand this is problematic. Though I get that you are having vision problems.

-- Third, the manager is incorrect in asserting the contract is between the management and the board. It is between the management and the association. In legal jargon, the board is merely an "agent" of the HOA.

RichardL7
(Colorado)

Posts:92


08/19/2021 8:06 AM  
Thank you for the come back.
I'm sure as you understand, all the documentation related to an HOA, or management company, or laws from the state in which you reside can be at times extremely difficult to understand. As homeowners we try, but sometimes is beyond our comprehension of how to read this and understand it. Some information is straightforward and clear, but sections can be difficult to understand or comprehend. Unless you work in the field of legalities and etc.

The information I have received on HOA talk has been beneficial. I have used this to gain knowledge The best I can in regards to the rules and regulations of the Association's and the laws. As such, I feel confident now that I may have, and I will restate that I may have reasons to seek assistance in regards to these problems. I think it's time that I asked for assistance from a legal standpoint and lay my case as best I can for his or her review. To analyze, inspect, and determine if my complaints are legitimate and if so what the next steps should be. I will take it slow but steadily forward.
Thanks to all those who monitor this website and offer assistance.
Rich
RichardL7
(Colorado)

Posts:92


09/01/2021 8:59 PM  
Update as of October 1, 2021 8:33 PM
to the person or persons that assisted me in regards to the Association contract being denied for reading and copying. I never realized just how much this blew up the Association and the management company, it took them out of the water so to speak. Not only was it intentional and deliberate it caused some serious problems in the Association. I'll try to keep this short, referencing the state statutes and the Association bylaws and related documents. They realize they could not get away with it and that I was not going to stand for it. They rectified the problem and will authorize me to copy the contract. The bad part is, and this hurts the most, the board and the management company reprimanded a board member so severely that she quit. Not only that, they reprimanded her for looking for a new management company while on her own time. Sounds like the Soviet Union to me. We've lost two board members due to the intentional and willful acts of one particular board member and the management company. Now I should like to say to all,----To all those who have assisted me. My sincere thanks, and I truly mean that. I trust you take time to realize that the assistance here in this talk program has probably help more people than you can think. Good program, and I don't know when it started but God bless him or her for doing it.
Rich.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:4239


09/02/2021 7:30 AM  
It sounds like the one board member who quit was trying to help you in getting a copy of the current management company contract. No issue there, as you were probably entitled to have a look at the contract anyway. However, it WAS inappropriate for her to look for a new management company. Even if it was on her own time, the board should vote and act as a unit because they have to approve all activity related to association business. If someone's concerned about the conduct of the management company, there are ways to address that, but no one board member can act on his/her own.

As for the other board member who you feel is acting inappropriately, that doesn't happen unless the rest of the board goes along with it - if you have, say, a five-member board, simple math should tell you the one board member can be outvoted. unfortunately, it would appear at least two board members couldn't convince the others to call out this one board member. When that doesn't happen, it's time for the HOMEOWNERS to remind everyone who works for who. Board members can be voted out or recalled, so if you feel that strongly about him/her, perhaps you should walk around the community and find other homeowners who agree. Sometimes, attending a few meetings to observe the proceedings can prompt people like this to behave because others are watching and can tell everyone else what's going on.

If he/she doesn't straighten up, it's up to the rest of you to find someone to run against him/her, or if the behavior is really awful, check the documents to see what needs to be done to call a special homeowners meeting to do a recall. You'll still need someone willing to step up to take over the spot if you succeed - and YOU may be the one who has to do it. Whatever you decide to do, good luck.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8620


09/02/2021 8:51 AM  
Glad you can copy the contract

Shelia is right on target about everything in her post, I'd say. The director never should have looked for another management company if that means she actually spoke to some to other firms, etc.

Agree too that the rest of the Board is permitting Mr. Nasty to behave the way he is. Shelia gives good advice about how to neutralize him.
RichardL7
(Colorado)

Posts:92


09/02/2021 9:12 AM  
Thank you, good information and appreciated. I do not know what went down with the board and checking for a new management company. As that information probably is not authorized to me. It was the Board President that was looking for a new management company at that time, and whether or not she was authorized to do so I would not be able to say.

The board and the management company knew they acted out of line and deliberately and with intent tried to withhold the contract for viewing or copying. Sufficient emails were sent requesting copies of the document which were at that time all denied which is authorized by our bylaws and the statutes of the state of Colorado. Many emails I have would verify the fact that they withheld the viewing of this contract, or copying deliberately and intentionally, but for what reason I don't know,. The way things are going. It's obvious they are using a cookie-cutter set of laws rather than reading and understanding the bylaws of our Association, declaration, and related documents. Also, all indications point to the fact that they've never read the state statutes or anything related to the fair housing laws. Can I prove that? No, but sometimes you judge a tree by the fruit it bears. Asking questions and special request of the management company also verifies this. The violations that have occurred would require a couple of hours to explain. But there are many.

Thanks for the information. I will hold until the next board meeting and see what comes. To all. I wish you the best.
Rich.

AugustinD


Posts:1695


09/02/2021 9:41 AM  
Posted By RichardL7 on 09/02/2021 9:12 AM
Your Association, declaration, and related documents. Also, all indications point to the fact that they've never read the state statutes or anything related to the fair housing laws.
Please keep in mind that the phrase "fair housing laws" refers to laws designed to prevent discrimination in housing on the basis of race, religion, sex, familial status, national origin, ethnicity and disability. This law has nothing to do with records requests, requests to view contracts, et cetera. If there is a bona fide fair housing issue at your HOA, please start another thread.
RichardL7
(Colorado)

Posts:92


09/03/2021 8:42 AM  

Good morning:
your information on fair housing act is absolutely a fact, what I am looking at is the responsibilities that a management company and the board should have under their belt in the performance of their duties. I will touch on a few, but hesitate on listing everything and the reasons for it.

First, and foremost, a full understanding of the state of Colorado CCIOA's laws and related documents and how to access them when needed. A basic understanding of the federal fair housing laws, and I'm not insinuating that they have to memorize them, but read him. Now as for the community, the code of conduct which was set forth on the foundation of this community, and seriously has been violated.

Then following that will be your declarations, bylaws, and related documents to and for the Association. The responsibilities of the Association's treasurer and the board president and related personnel remembering that they are to enforce, regulate and assist in the administering of our documents and bylaws with understanding and compassion .

Refrain from inserting their own agendas and desires in running the Association rather than following the principles and documents for our association. Unless you understood the difficulties of this association for the past 20 years , it would be very, very difficult for you or other people to understand. It has been horrendous. I'll give three of many problems. A tree completely dead not remove since last fall, slab boards on condominium 2' x 8', falling off not repaired for over a year, damage roads for over four years, nothing done, and if I could go on? ---Was this reported, not once but many times.

I could list many many many more. The best part, It's all documented, verbally and by photographs. In doing so, it has proved worthless.

. These comments are just touching as to what is really required. We as homeowners try to do our best, but for the past 20 year This particular Association has been used, abused, and degraded from its original concept. Why do I say this, it's called apathy in the community and the failure for the board or management company to respond to the homeowners and this is the foundation for apathy.

. Don't get me wrong, it's bad and I've been here long enough to see it. It has been said, walk a mile in my shoes and you'd understand. I understand very well and clearly the responsibilities of a board member and the management company and that is a lot of work, as for me I have attempted to read through these required documents the best I can and try to understand what's going on and why these documents were put forth.. I think I have succeeded to a great extent.
Rich. It's
MichaelS56
(Minnesota)

Posts:279


09/03/2021 4:14 PM  
Our Property Management company contract is on our Association web-site for all owners to see, read and review.
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