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Subject: How to Disband Your HOA
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Author Messages
SharonH9


Posts:0


08/30/2013 8:11 PM  
Posted By GnomeX on 08/30/2013 7:33 PM
Posted By SharonH9 on 08/30/2013 6:57 PM

But my subdivision is far from paradise. I have posted my experience before and will not go into those details but I still stand by the opinion that in HOA land the simpler the better. No fines, no liens, no foreclosures.




No fines, no liens, no foreclosures? An impractical absolutely unrealistic utopian dream.



Well... That was until you know what was passed...




You sue them in small claims court. In my opinion that is more practical then the expense of liens and foreclosures. I just do not believe private citizens should have the right to fine each other either and I will not sway from that opinion!



SharonH9


Posts:0


08/30/2013 8:41 PM  
GnomeX

I have to ask you why do you live in an HOA? What benefit are you personally getting from your HOA? Your neighbors are low income, uneducated, morons. Your roads are in terrible shape, you have deadbeat neighbors who don't pay, your neighborhood consists of OMG trailer trash, you spend countless numbers of hours volunteering your time. Doesn't sound like you enjoy your life in an HOA very much. I will put that question on you. Why did you buy into an HOA?
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


08/30/2013 8:46 PM  
I respect your opinion but unfortunately we tend to look at things from our world view and I can tell you are an honorable person who pays her bills, so am I. However, I've also had the misfortune of dealing with deadbeats, people who think the world owes them a living and that people who play by the rules are chumps.

Getting a Small Claim Judgement is just step one, you still have to collect it and if the party doesn't willingly pay up. Then you are right back to liens and foreclosure unless you get a garnishment and they don't quit their job and they pay their current amount so you don't have to do it again next year.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
FrankS10
(Kansas)

Posts:276


08/30/2013 10:10 PM  
Glen & John,

I absolutely agree with you and thanks! It usually is the least tolerant who will race bait and we can not ignore it or look the other way. Every time he responds to me about it I will demand he answer my question like he does with everyone else here. We will see that his "standards" only apply to everyone else, not him.
GnomeX
(Washington)

Posts:253


08/30/2013 11:12 PM  
Posted By SharonH9 on 08/30/2013 8:41 PM
GnomeX

I have to ask you why do you live in an HOA? What benefit are you personally getting from your HOA? Your neighbors are low income, uneducated, morons. Your roads are in terrible shape, you have deadbeat neighbors who don't pay, your neighborhood consists of OMG trailer trash, you spend countless numbers of hours volunteering your time. Doesn't sound like you enjoy your life in an HOA very much. I will put that question on you. Why did you buy into an HOA?




We bought in here for the amenities. We once had a golf course, a clubhouse with an indoor pool, and public lake access.

We have lost all those amenities due to a large number of people unwilling to pay for them. Now we have the same group that do not even want to pay for road maintenance.

GnomeX
(Washington)

Posts:253


08/30/2013 11:27 PM  
Posted By SharonH9 on 08/30/2013 8:11 PM
Posted By GnomeX on 08/30/2013 7:33 PM
Posted By SharonH9 on 08/30/2013 6:57 PM

But my subdivision is far from paradise. I have posted my experience before and will not go into those details but I still stand by the opinion that in HOA land the simpler the better. No fines, no liens, no foreclosures.




No fines, no liens, no foreclosures? An impractical absolutely unrealistic utopian dream.



Well... That was until you know what was passed...




You sue them in small claims court. In my opinion that is more practical then the expense of liens and foreclosures. I just do not believe private citizens should have the right to fine each other either and I will not sway from that opinion!




I apologize but you are not looking at this realistically. Glen is right.

Small claims court will be the first to tell you that they cannot collect the debt for you. In fact once you get a judgment, and the debtor doesn't pay, you will still have to pursue collections through either liens or some form of a writ of execution to seize the debtor's property.

Small claims isn't more practical than liens or foreclosures. It still leads to the same or similar means of collection. IE seizure of the debtor's personal property to extinguish a debt.

Right now I have to use small claims on one owner. He walked away from his mortgage, still has outstanding HOA debt, and the bank foreclosure wiped out our lien. But this prior owner still owns other property within the County.

What did our attorney advise? Go to small claims court and receive a judgment so that we can then lien his other property in the County.
GnomeX
(Washington)

Posts:253


08/30/2013 11:42 PM  
What is a writ of execution?

Writ of Execution
GnomeX
(Washington)

Posts:253


08/31/2013 12:15 AM  
.

(Washington State)

How do I collect my money in Small Claims Court

"A money judgment in your favor does not necessarily mean that the money will be paid. The Small Claims Court does not collect the judgment for you. If no appeal is taken and the judgment is not paid within 30 days, or the time set by the court in the payment plan, you may request (in writing) and upon payment of a $20 fee, that a transcript of the judgment be entered into the civil docket of the court. At that time you may proceed with a method of collection such as garnishment of wages, bank accounts, and other monies of the defendant or an EXECUTION may be issued on cars, boats, or other personal property of the judgment debtor. Remember, the clerks cannot give you legal advice. You may need the assistance of an attorney or collection agency at this point. In the alternative, you may take your transcript of the judgment and file it in superior court for a fee of $20. Other fees may be required by the superior court clerk or county auditor. When this is done, it places a LIEN against all real estate in the name of the judgment debtor that is located in the county."

Liens, Writs of Execution, etc. are all about personal property seizures. Doesn't matter whether it is an HOA debt or otherwise. The idea that an HOA should not be able to lien or foreclose on debt and only use small claims is just overlooking this fact. It all still leads to seizing personal property to extinguish debt. Even in small claims court.

SharonH9


Posts:0


08/31/2013 4:44 AM  
Posted By GnomeX on 08/30/2013 11:12 PM
Posted By SharonH9 on 08/30/2013 8:41 PM
GnomeX

I have to ask you why do you live in an HOA? What benefit are you personally getting from your HOA? Your neighbors are low income, uneducated, morons. Your roads are in terrible shape, you have deadbeat neighbors who don't pay, your neighborhood consists of OMG trailer trash, you spend countless numbers of hours volunteering your time. Doesn't sound like you enjoy your life in an HOA very much. I will put that question on you. Why did you buy into an HOA?




We bought in here for the amenities. We once had a golf course, a clubhouse with an indoor pool, and public lake access.

We have lost all those amenities due to a large number of people unwilling to pay for them. Now we have the same group that do not even want to pay for road maintenance.




Just curious, what has happened to those amenities?
SharonH9


Posts:0


08/31/2013 4:58 AM  
Okay. You have educated me on small claims, liens, and foreclosures. Both options are have their complications.

I suppose I do tend to see things from the world I live in. As I said before, I work in a school. I am an elementary school secretary. I live in the poorest county in the state of Iowa. So many of the children in my school live in families that are low-income and uneducated. My heart breaks for them because their home life can really suck. So yes, my opinions are probably clouded because its not the kids fault. But these families are not likely to live in an HOA. But I am a real softie...
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17830


08/31/2013 5:13 AM  
Posted By SharonH9 on 08/31/2013 4:58 AM

I suppose I do tend to see things from the world I live in.




Something we all do.
JonD1


Posts:0


08/31/2013 6:29 AM  
Posted By GnomeX on 08/31/2013 12:15 AM
.

(Washington State)

How do I collect my money in Small Claims Court

"A money judgment in your favor does not necessarily mean that the money will be paid. The Small Claims Court does not collect the judgment for you. If no appeal is taken and the judgment is not paid within 30 days, or the time set by the court in the payment plan, you may request (in writing) and upon payment of a $20 fee, that a transcript of the judgment be entered into the civil docket of the court. At that time you may proceed with a method of collection such as garnishment of wages, bank accounts, and other monies of the defendant or an EXECUTION may be issued on cars, boats, or other personal property of the judgment debtor. Remember, the clerks cannot give you legal advice. You may need the assistance of an attorney or collection agency at this point. In the alternative, you may take your transcript of the judgment and file it in superior court for a fee of $20. Other fees may be required by the superior court clerk or county auditor. When this is done, it places a LIEN against all real estate in the name of the judgment debtor that is located in the county."

Liens, Writs of Execution, etc. are all about personal property seizures. Doesn't matter whether it is an HOA debt or otherwise. The idea that an HOA should not be able to lien or foreclose on debt and only use small claims is just overlooking this fact. It all still leads to seizing personal property to extinguish debt. Even in small claims court.





Thank you for taking the time to provide an explanation as to how or why small claims court may or may not work when trying to collect a debt in an HOA.

Amazing how some folks suggest they now have an opinion when in fact they are unaware of how or why their opinions fails in the real world.

One other limitation in SCC is the limit set on claims. What do you do when the amount in question exceeds the court's limit. Accept the loss?

The notion that having an ability to fine or impose fees on members by the HOA is somehow unacceptable or violates the Constitution is unrealistic.

Yes, rules in an HOA should not exist but look around should we then eliminate other rules in place throughout our lives? Wishful thinking at best.

To suggest the SCC system is in the position to satisfy problems of behavior in an HOA is limited thinking.

And by all means lets not hold some folks responsible for THEIR share of costs while screwing the other members who pay their fair share each month. Spoken like someone who has never had to pay the property's bills.

HOAs were set up under the law using certain procedures to cover different issues. Perhaps before some folks decide they have found a better way they might take the time to think their suggestions through because in many cases their ANSWERS are in fact ineffective at best.


AminB


Posts:0


08/31/2013 7:29 AM  
Posted By GlenL on 08/30/2013 3:50 PM
Posted By AminB on 08/30/2013 3:26 PM
You're not trying to help me. You're trying to attack me, demean me, forget on purpose what I said and overall trying to dismiss me. If you were trying to help me you would have first of all tell me of experiences either you or somebody similar have had. If you don't have neither, then at least you wouldn't criticize me for getting what is rightfully mine. If you were trying to help me , you wouldn't make me answer the same questions that I have gone over many times, you would have probably tried to refer me to somebody that could help me, not being negative on me. At this stage and the zero value of your help, I would definitely be happy in your retention of my answers. I am not picking fights. I don't know anybody here. this is my first time here. As i have said before, if this was correctly named Hoaboardmembertalk I would have never set foot here.If somebody treats me crappy , I treat them that way. If somebody has some questions and asks them in a civilized manner, I will act accordingly. Even when you had a rare moment of civilized Q&A , I did answer you accordingly.That was just I believe yesterday, which I said I was surprised.

Your thread is still bogus to me. Sentences like "it could take a decade or two", or "you will get sued by your neighbor" or "sell your common pool" is to scare people from even thinking about disbanding their HOA. In other words keep your necessary evil, which is a statement I believe made up by some board member to legitimize thievery and kickbacks and make it look like a fact of life that we all have to live with. No evil is necessary.It is not necessary to live with evil and evil should be fought at all times and make life pleasant for the people who pay their dues and make what is taking advantage of their state-given power.Homeowners need to have accountability at their finger tips. They pay for it, why not?




Amin I realize it's your nature when someone asks an uncomfortable question to try and deflect it but why are you keeping your neighbors in the dark????? You are as guilty as nay member of your Board if you know someone is stealing your neighbor's money and don't tell them. I think it's called accessory after the fact but I'm not an attorney.

"it could take a decade or two" - It's called hyperbole.

"you will get sued by your neighbor" - If the Deed Restrictions remain after you disband the HOA then yes your neighbor can sue to enforce them. In fact even if the HOA exists and the Board is ignoring a Deed Restriction violation YOU as a homeowner have the right to sue your neighbor to enforce it.

"sell your common pool" - I realize this might be a difficult concept for you to comprehend but I'll try. You and your neighbors as members of the HOA jointly own the common elements, pool, retention pond etc. When you disband the HOA you have to get rid of the common elements because there is no longer a legal entity to administer it. Without the HOA Board who is going to collect money to maintain the pool, provide insurance etc.?











A hyperbole? You have a hyperbole in something that is supposed to be a "how to"? A "how to" is supposed to be a set up exact steps to accomplish something. This is not a place where you get cute and try to exaggerate. This also shows the nature of your article. You are as I have said before an insincere guy. If the neighbors can sue you, you should have outlined the steps as how to best avoid that. Why did you leave that to common ordinary homeowners to do a "simple internet search"? If your post was genuine, you should have outlined steps as how to handle the common pools problem and not have ordinary folks handle the sale of common pool.You should have mentioned some business types that would handle that.
You got my nature wrong and show your insincerity once again. My neighbors , many of them know all about what I am trying to do. However (and for the umpteenth time) , I don't have a proof, just questions. My questions are not answered and instead the books were closed on me. I am trying to get them open. See how simple that is?
I am convinced, it must be something in water you're drinking.
AminB


Posts:0


08/31/2013 7:50 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 08/30/2013 4:08 PM
Posted By AminB on 08/30/2013 3:08 PM

Thats right. you didn't answer to the AG because you didn't want to.




Well I gave you my reasons. If you believe me or not is certainly your option.


Posted By AminB on 08/30/2013 3:08 PM

When there is an effort to bring HOAs under control of some agency , which would pay attention to most of ours biggest investment, you just don't want to investigate how it can be done.




No. I'm willing to investigate how it can be done. I told you I support VA's method. I gave you links to the laws that specifies how it's done. You have yet to provide specifics on how you would have it done. When we were discussing how it's done in VA, you wanted to change the topic back to your specific issue. Which we did. Now we are back discussing this proposed agency to oversee Associations but the only specifics you have offered is that it can be housed in the AG's office.

As I pointed out, until I know specifics, I'm not willing to agree or disagree to additional government oversight. As I said, I believe that the members working from within the Association have more power and authority to make the changes and can make them quicker than some politician who doesn't even own property in the development.

I pointed out that it would be logical to expect that the HOA industry will likely lobby against any law or for amendments to a proposed law to minimize the new agencies authority or to make the law more favorable to the HOA Industry than to the membership.

I've been discussing it. You seem to be hung up on where the office will work out of.
My response about the AGs office is simple - I don't believe it matters where the office is physically located. However, the specifics on where the funding will come from, what rights might a member be giving up, what authority that office will ultimately have and what safeguards can be put in place to prevent corruption at that level are far far far more important than where the workers desks are located.


Posted By AminB on 08/30/2013 3:08 PM

If you truly didn't like HOAs as you have said earlier, then you would try to find out how homeowners can have voice including checks and balances, not just reciting laws till cows come home.




I've already gone over that.
I've told you what I did to make that happen within my HOA.
You said that it takes too much time to do that in your Association.


Posted By AminB on 08/30/2013 3:08 PM

If i have a n issue with my attorney like financial misappropriation (only suspicion) , then I know where to file a complaint and have them investigate him/her. If I have the same problem with HOA then . . .




If you suspect fraud with an insurance agency, you simply need to provide your suspicions to the insurance agency. Since they are the one's paying the money out, I'm fairly sure that they will investigate.

If you suspect misappropriation of funds and/or embezzlement, then you get what documentation you can and go to the police or local district attorney with what proof you have. If they say there is nothing there, so be it. If they say there may be something there but you need more proof, explain that they Association isn't cooperating and ask what can be done.

If the Association doesn't want to give you access to the records as required by the law (OH, I do believe your Association is willing to give you access) then you have the same options I've laid out before:

Take them to court
change things from within
work to change applicable laws
live with it
move

Posted By AminB on 08/30/2013 3:08 PM

If I have the same problem with HOA then you have questions and it would be too general for you. If you are truly dislike HOAs, then you should know the value of your home is a whole lot more than what you pay an attorney, insurance company or other professionals.




I disagree. In my opinion (and as stated before) the value of my time and energy is far more valuable that what I pay an attorney, insurance company or other professional. This time and energy I have been paying. I paid with it for three years in order to gather support and educate the membership. I continue to pay with it to make sure that the changes which made my Association better stay while I continue to look for ways to make sure that the real power stays with the members and not with the Board.

I chose to do this because it was something I could do right then and there. I didn't have to rely on someone else to do this for me. I didn't have to compromise on what I thought was needed to be done. I gathered support and made the changes I through were needed.

As I said earlier, removing and replacing those whom you believe are violating the law and/or governing documents is the only way to be positive that they won't do it again. The difference appears to be that you prefer someone else to actually remove them and I prefer to do the entire job myself so I know it was actually done.

Posted By AminB on 08/30/2013 3:08 PM

This is where your insincerity comes




As I said earlier, I'll let my postings and actions speak for themselves and leave it to others to make that determination.


Posted By AminB on 08/30/2013 3:08 PM

If licensing is good enough for them then an agency or some sort of licensing should be more than good but a necessity for HOAs.




Again, I don't know what you mean about licensing for HOAs. Do you mean requiring Directors to be certified by some licensing bureau?

If it is, that was discussed in already in a different thread. There were differing opinions. However, the one thing that stood out is if licensing was to be required, then the Director should probably become a paid position. This of course may prevent some people from serving but don't have time to take the class. It may also cause some to agree to run but do a lousy job as they are in it for the paycheck only.

If you want to continue that discussion, it's best that you continue it on that thread so all the points of view are together in one place.
See Subject: Making unqualified volunteers qualified


Posted By AminB on 08/30/2013 3:08 PM

. . . you would have a committee going over complaints in a civilized manner and not batons or bars. I am sure homeowners would have no problems giving $100-$200 per year for such a committee so taxpayer money would not be used.




I agree about going over complaints in a civilized manner. If an individual (be they on the board or not) can't conduct themselves in a civilized manner than they should be asked to leave the meeting. If they can return to discussions in a civilized manner then they should stay. If not, and they won't leave, the meeting should simply be adjourned.

Speak for yourself as far as being willing to pay for a committee.

I know of many homeowners living on a fixed income or are out of work and are barely living paycheck to paycheck. Personally, I'd prefer to make the changes internally and use that money for other things.




Posted By AminB on 08/30/2013 3:08 PM

Would you have any problem with such a committee? yes or no is the only answer.




Again, it depends on the specifics.

Many thought universal health care was a good idea. Now that the details are known on how it's going to be implemented, what it will cost and what was given up, many of those same people who thought it was good now think it's a bad idea. For example: Initially Congress was required to participate in the program. Well, that has been waived and they are no longer required to participate in the law they said was a great idea.

The devil is in the details? Who would sit on the committee? What qualifies them to sit on the committee? What authority do they have? What rights might I have to waive to such a committee? What oversight, if any, is there with the committee? Are the committee members paid? Will this be a fixed cost or can it increase every year? If it can increase, what protections are there to limit the rate of increase? Is participation in front of the committee mandatory or voluntary? What issues will be heard? What issues won't be heard? etc. etc. etc.




Your bias shows more and more. How about starting the idea of qualified people and get that in discussions all over the country? All the details can be worked out. You don't even want to entertain the idea. if you were really for it , you would have given some ideas about how it could be done, not being a naysayer. I do speak for myself . I never said I speak for you.After living with HOA, I can tell many people would pay for that $100-200 a year, just to have an accounting by their board members.Even living paycheck to paycheck once a year is something "most" people can afford. You just don't even want to entertain the idea. Just sending me to read another thread, or search the links that you send me?I don't need to be sent someplace else. Just tell me or google how such a committee could even benefit the homeowners in other ways or how it can be done. You just don't want a committee exist to oversee the HOA. I am talking about a committee with teeth, not just a place where they can get together and nothing comes out of it which is where BBB mediation services or the one in AZ have. Board members will not relent on good money they make under the table, unless it is a credible threat to their freedom or pocket books.You mentioned internal change. Are you really retaining what I said or you just quote it and read selectively. I said internal change with people only , can only bring about different people who over time with the flow of under the table money can do the same thing, meaning get kickbacks and the whole 9 yards.
Unless there is a credible threat to their freedom or pocketbooks no internal change can do any good.It is the mechanism that needs to be changed. Do you have any problem with checks and balances. Again its a yes or no. Don't try to dodge this one again by saying it depends. The whole governmental system is based on checks and balances except these shyster HOA board members who have gotten away with it for all this time.
SharonH9


Posts:0


08/31/2013 8:00 AM  
Posted By JonD1 on 08/31/2013 6:29 AM
Posted By GnomeX on 08/31/2013 12:15 AM
.

(Washington State)

How do I collect my money in Small Claims Court

"A money judgment in your favor does not necessarily mean that the money will be paid. The Small Claims Court does not collect the judgment for you. If no appeal is taken and the judgment is not paid within 30 days, or the time set by the court in the payment plan, you may request (in writing) and upon payment of a $20 fee, that a transcript of the judgment be entered into the civil docket of the court. At that time you may proceed with a method of collection such as garnishment of wages, bank accounts, and other monies of the defendant or an EXECUTION may be issued on cars, boats, or other personal property of the judgment debtor. Remember, the clerks cannot give you legal advice. You may need the assistance of an attorney or collection agency at this point. In the alternative, you may take your transcript of the judgment and file it in superior court for a fee of $20. Other fees may be required by the superior court clerk or county auditor. When this is done, it places a LIEN against all real estate in the name of the judgment debtor that is located in the county."

Liens, Writs of Execution, etc. are all about personal property seizures. Doesn't matter whether it is an HOA debt or otherwise. The idea that an HOA should not be able to lien or foreclose on debt and only use small claims is just overlooking this fact. It all still leads to seizing personal property to extinguish debt. Even in small claims court.





Thank you for taking the time to provide an explanation as to how or why small claims court may or may not work when trying to collect a debt in an HOA.

Amazing how some folks suggest they now have an opinion when in fact they are unaware of how or why their opinions fails in the real world.

One other limitation in SCC is the limit set on claims. What do you do when the amount in question exceeds the court's limit. Accept the loss?

The notion that having an ability to fine or impose fees on members by the HOA is somehow unacceptable or violates the Constitution is unrealistic.

Yes, rules in an HOA should not exist but look around should we then eliminate other rules in place throughout our lives? Wishful thinking at best.

To suggest the SCC system is in the position to satisfy problems of behavior in an HOA is limited thinking.

And by all means lets not hold some folks responsible for THEIR share of costs while screwing the other members who pay their fair share each month. Spoken like someone who has never had to pay the property's bills.

HOAs were set up under the law using certain procedures to cover different issues. Perhaps before some folks decide they have found a better way they might take the time to think their suggestions through because in many cases their ANSWERS are in fact ineffective at best.





JonD1,

As Glen and GnomeX posted, I see that my statement was too general and there are other things to consider then simply filing a small claims case. I conceded that but neither option is easy and each one of them has consequences. I am concerned that innocent members of the family are put out of their home because their parents didn't pay the HOA. Or an elderly person who is having trouble paying their bills.

I still do not believe in private citizens fining each other. When I say rules, I mean like accidentally leaving your garage door open or forgetting to bring in your trash can. Leaving your own car in the driveway overnight. Or heaven for bid if I put turquoise colored pots in my front yard or even put plastic flowers in them. Or where I put the sattalite dish or my air conditioning unit. Those silly things that people fuss over. Fines are too subjective. I believe there is too much of a chance for abuse or selective enforcement.

I did not suggest that small claims court satisfies behavior problems. I did not say that at all. To suggest that is limited thinking. I look at people and ask why they behave a certain way. What happened to them in their life to make them act the way they do?

The difference between you and I JonD1 is that I am a firm believer in drawing the lines between county, city, state, and federal authority. I just don't believe in that HOA concept of bringing authority down to neighborhood control. I prefer that control be left with my county, state, and federal governments. Imperfect that it is, I don't want or need another layer of authority to control my property or my life.
FrankS10
(Kansas)

Posts:276


08/31/2013 8:06 AM  


"The difference between you and I JonD1 is that I am a firm believer in drawing the lines between county, city, state, and federal authority. I just don't believe in that HOA concept of bringing authority down to neighborhood control. I prefer that control be left with my county, state, and federal governments. Imperfect that it is, I don't want or need another layer of authority to control my property or my life."

AMEN SISTER!



AminB


Posts:0


08/31/2013 8:24 AM  
Posted By FrankS10 on 08/30/2013 5:17 PM
Amin,

Show me where you have attacked anyone else without an American name, you racist.

How do you like it? Do you just treat people this way that have "American" names, whatever that means?

I already answered your question, like everyone has been doing here but you are dense and so intent on playing the victim card you think you can get away with calling someone racist just because they have an American sounding name to you.

I have no clue as to your heritage. It is your bizarre behavior, not your name, that will attract attention.

Maybe you think you will intimidate people by playing the race/discrimination card because it usually works. Not with me bud, Frank may not my real name so be careful.



On 8/27 timed at 3:23pm , on page 7 , out of the blue and for the first time on this thread , running out of things to say, you mentioned my name twice and the word terrorist.You also mentioned NSA and water-boarding. You attacked my ethnicity. Nobody has to take my word or yours. It is for everybody to see. I have never attacked anybody on the basis of their race or ethnicity. My whole issue has been with HOAs and mostly mine. For a fair evaluation of this utterly worthless discussion brought about by you, , I urge anybody who reads this to read the post that this character put on Page 7 and my posts. When I called you on that, you said you have had this discussion which included these words on the posting on 8/28 exactly 12 hours later at 3:23 AM. I asked you to direct me to where you have made a similar posting with a non-foreign sounding name. At the moment of this writing you have never given me an answer. I know the answer though. There isn't any.
Fortunately, everything is recorded. There is no backing out of it .I am not here to argue anything other than HOAs and the sham they are setup.I don't need to cry in front of bunch of board members who I don't know.
I can handle my own very well with my HOA. I'm not even trying to intimate you or anybody else here, just answering the BS that you and others your type put in here.Why would I want to intimate people in general and more specifically
people that I don't even know? Typical board member logic: flawed, selective and nonsense.

Now I ask you again, show me where you made a similar statement with a non-foreign sounding name mentioning the word terrorist and your concerns about NSA listening to it. Basically this is what your post on 8/28 at 3:23am says.

Also for the purpose of clarity tell me where I have made a comment about somebody's race or ethnicity. A hint: there isn't any. So do your futile search or recall. I am not a racist like you, just trying to find answers who I am finding out , the wrong bunch.
AminB


Posts:0


08/31/2013 8:32 AM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/30/2013 5:24 PM
Posted By FrankS10 on 08/30/2013 5:17 PM
Amin,

Show me where you have attacked anyone else without an American name, you racist.

How do you like it? Do you just treat people this way that have "American" names, whatever that means?

I already answered your question, like everyone has been doing here but you are dense and so intent on playing the victim card you think you can get away with calling someone racist just because they have an American sounding name to you.

I have no clue as to your heritage. It is your bizarre behavior, not your name, that will attract attention.

Maybe you think you will intimidate people by playing the race/discrimination card because it usually works. Not with me bud, Frank may not my real name so be careful.




Tough love but well said.



Oh great. The spineless jellyfish chimes in. Again using the word "love" in answering another man in what looks like another love affair.Why don't you use some of your own words and answer my question? I know why : You're not man enough to have your own opinion. You just rely on others to do your own bidding.
AminB


Posts:0


08/31/2013 8:34 AM  
Posted By GlenL on 08/30/2013 6:11 PM
Frank I've found over the years that those who scream for tolerance are usually intolerant of anyone else.



Back to insanity again?
I tell you what I have found out too. When people have something to hide get most defensive and lash out at others who they might perceive a threat to uncovering their misdeeds.
AminB


Posts:0


08/31/2013 8:46 AM  
Posted By FrankS10 on 08/30/2013 10:10 PM
Glen & John,

I absolutely agree with you and thanks! It usually is the least tolerant who will race bait and we can not ignore it or look the other way. Every time he responds to me about it I will demand he answer my question like he does with everyone else here. We will see that his "standards" only apply to everyone else, not him.



Great answering fric and his new frac.Just agreeing among themselves.Notice I answered this trash a few minutes ago and have to repeat it here. Tell me on this thread and even on my own "External Audit" asides answering you on YOUR post on 8/27 at 3:23pm and 8/28 at 3:23am which was again answering, where have I even mentioned race, ethnicity, national origin,etc., let alone race baiting?
I give you a hint again: there isn't any, you shyster. You just dodge questions.
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17830


08/31/2013 8:52 AM  
Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

Your bias shows more and more.




You're certainly entitled to your opinion.
If you believe that I am biased, then it's doubtful that I can change that opinion.
Therefore, I won't try. I'll simply allow everyone to make their own opinion.


Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

How about starting the idea of qualified people and get that in discussions all over the country?




I believe I started the thread on that very topic.
Please refer to my earlier post that contained it.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

All the details can be worked out.




I agree, details can be worked out.
I just want the details worked out prior to saying if I agree or disagree (as I've posted earlier).
It appears that you believe that once people can agree on a concept that they can agree on the details.
That can work for some individuals. It appears that I am not one of them.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

You don't even want to entertain the idea. you would have given some ideas about how it could be done, not being a naysayer.




I did entertain the idea.

You only offered a concept. I offered links to a similar program I have no problem with.

Instead of discussing the pros and cons of the laws and regulations surrounding the only program that has been offered, you seem to be stuck on defining the concept and where the unit can work out of.


Here's an idea you can enterain - take a look at the link I provided. Read what that office can and can't do. Then make changes to it and submit the idea to your State legislature explaining how you believe the benefits of such an office will help protect members of Associations - many of whom happen to vote.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

I do speak for myself .




You implied that you spoke for others when you posted that "I am sure homeowners would have no problems giving $100-$200 per year for such a committee so taxpayer money would not be used."

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

I can tell many people would pay for that $100-200 a year, just to have an accounting by their board members.




Do you have any surveys or documentation to give that statement some credibility?

I'm fairly certain that for everyone you find who are willing to pay that money, I can likely find someone who won't be.

If members of Associations truly wanted an accounting from their board, they would gather together (within their own Associations) and demand it. If the Board wouldn't give it to them, they would vote those people out of office and replace them with individuals who would provide them an accounting.

From your postings, you have made such a demand on your Association. Your Association said come and look at our records. You have refused to do this. You have apparently also refused to pay for someone else's time (your accountant or attorney perhaps) to do that for you. Therefore, I submit that your own actions indicate that you are not even willing to pay to make sure that you have an accounting.



Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

Just tell me or google how such a committee could even benefit the homeowners in other ways or how it can be done.




I did tell you.
In fact, I sent you a link so you can verify what I told you.
If you don't want to take the time to review the information the link provides on your own, I'm sorry to hear that. I simply don't have the time to do it for you.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

You just don't want a committee exist to oversee the HOA.




Did you miss where I posted that VA, the State I live in, has such a committee?

Since my State has one, I don't have to do any of the work you need to do if you want one in your State.


Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

I am talking about a committee with teeth, not just a place where they can get together and nothing comes out of it which is where BBB mediation services or the one in AZ have.




Did you miss the postings where I pointed out the consequences of what the Virginia CIC Board may do for violations? I suggest you go back and read it.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

Board members will not relent on good money they make under the table . . .




There's that broad brush again, implying that all Board members are crooks, which can then be interpreted that those who are on this site that serve on their Boards are also crooks.

I suggest you go back and re-read my postings to you about how such broad statements can damage the credibility of what is posted regardless of the intent you had when posting them.


Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

You mentioned internal change. Are you really retaining what I said or you just quote it and read selectively.




I do mention internal change. I said that I believe it is the most powerful change that can happen. I believe that to the point that I took action and made changes within my own Association. I've shared how it can be done. I've disclosed that it won't happen overnight.

I recall that you said it's too slow of a process for your current issue. That you said people move in and out of the development so it's difficult to gather support. That you said there is always a possibility that once corrected it can go back to the way it was so, in your opinion, it wasn't the best option.

I recall that you prefer to have a government agency to make such changes for you. I recall I pointed out that since TX doesn't have such an agency that making changes from within would likely be quicker. I don't recall you denying that it would be.

Therefore, if time is of the essence to your current issue, I'm not really sure why you are still lobbying me, and others on this site, that there should be governmental oversight for Assocaitions as the creation of such a bureau won't happen in time to address your issue.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

Unless there is a credible threat to their freedom or pocketbooks no internal change can do any good.




I disagree. I disagree because it has done good in my Association. I disagree because there have been postings on this site from others where it has done good in their Association.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Therefore, we will simply have to agree to disagree.


Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

Do you have any problem with checks and balances. Again its a yes or no.




NO, I have no problems with having checks and balances. In fact, I would insist on it.

We just disagree on where those checks and balances should come from. Currently it comes from the membership. I think it should stay there as I believe those who are directly affected will care more about what is happening than an outside entity (governmental or otherwise) who isn't affected by what the Association does. You appear to believe that it should come from an outside entity.

Now, I do agree that there should be quicker remedies available for members than the court system when Associations violate the laws of the land. Virginia has such process and I have shared that process with you.

If you think TX should have a similar or different process, I suggest that you gather support from those who are registered to vote in TX and propose it to your State legislature.






JonD1


Posts:0


08/31/2013 8:59 AM  
Posted By SharonH9 on 08/31/2013 8:00 AM
Posted By JonD1 on 08/31/2013 6:29 AM
Posted By GnomeX on 08/31/2013 12:15 AM
.

(Washington State)

How do I collect my money in Small Claims Court

"A money judgment in your favor does not necessarily mean that the money will be paid. The Small Claims Court does not collect the judgment for you. If no appeal is taken and the judgment is not paid within 30 days, or the time set by the court in the payment plan, you may request (in writing) and upon payment of a $20 fee, that a transcript of the judgment be entered into the civil docket of the court. At that time you may proceed with a method of collection such as garnishment of wages, bank accounts, and other monies of the defendant or an EXECUTION may be issued on cars, boats, or other personal property of the judgment debtor. Remember, the clerks cannot give you legal advice. You may need the assistance of an attorney or collection agency at this point. In the alternative, you may take your transcript of the judgment and file it in superior court for a fee of $20. Other fees may be required by the superior court clerk or county auditor. When this is done, it places a LIEN against all real estate in the name of the judgment debtor that is located in the county."

Liens, Writs of Execution, etc. are all about personal property seizures. Doesn't matter whether it is an HOA debt or otherwise. The idea that an HOA should not be able to lien or foreclose on debt and only use small claims is just overlooking this fact. It all still leads to seizing personal property to extinguish debt. Even in small claims court.





Thank you for taking the time to provide an explanation as to how or why small claims court may or may not work when trying to collect a debt in an HOA.

Amazing how some folks suggest they now have an opinion when in fact they are unaware of how or why their opinions fails in the real world.

One other limitation in SCC is the limit set on claims. What do you do when the amount in question exceeds the court's limit. Accept the loss?

The notion that having an ability to fine or impose fees on members by the HOA is somehow unacceptable or violates the Constitution is unrealistic.

Yes, rules in an HOA should not exist but look around should we then eliminate other rules in place throughout our lives? Wishful thinking at best.

To suggest the SCC system is in the position to satisfy problems of behavior in an HOA is limited thinking.

And by all means lets not hold some folks responsible for THEIR share of costs while screwing the other members who pay their fair share each month. Spoken like someone who has never had to pay the property's bills.

HOAs were set up under the law using certain procedures to cover different issues. Perhaps before some folks decide they have found a better way they might take the time to think their suggestions through because in many cases their ANSWERS are in fact ineffective at best.





JonD1,

As Glen and GnomeX posted, I see that my statement was too general and there are other things to consider then simply filing a small claims case. I conceded that but neither option is easy and each one of them has consequences. I am concerned that innocent members of the family are put out of their home because their parents didn't pay the HOA. Or an elderly person who is having trouble paying their bills.

I still do not believe in private citizens fining each other. When I say rules, I mean like accidentally leaving your garage door open or forgetting to bring in your trash can. Leaving your own car in the driveway overnight. Or heaven for bid if I put turquoise colored pots in my front yard or even put plastic flowers in them. Or where I put the sattalite dish or my air conditioning unit. Those silly things that people fuss over. Fines are too subjective. I believe there is too much of a chance for abuse or selective enforcement.

I did not suggest that small claims court satisfies behavior problems. I did not say that at all. To suggest that is limited thinking. I look at people and ask why they behave a certain way. What happened to them in their life to make them act the way they do?

The difference between you and I JonD1 is that I am a firm believer in drawing the lines between county, city, state, and federal authority. I just don't believe in that HOA concept of bringing authority down to neighborhood control. I prefer that control be left with my county, state, and federal governments. Imperfect that it is, I don't want or need another layer of authority to control my property or my life.





Sharon what you believe or your opinions are fine. My question to you would be the same you posed. Why would you then buy into an HOA? Not wishing any more rules or layers of government.

You see I believe those LIVING on the property and who have an investment in the property are best suited to govern the property. NOT someone at the state or federal level who has NEVER set foot on the property and now decides what should take place and why. Funny how you don't want HOA guidance but you dream about some governemnt agency to direct HOA operations.

No sure about things in Iowa but you can be subjected to fines, fees or the like every day. Pay your mortgage late. Pay your insurance late. Pay your taxes late. Miss a payment on your credit cards. My guess most places there will be a cost.

So those folks can fine you or charge you in an acceptable manner just not those manging your property? Makes little sense to me.

And as I have mentioned records indicate here over a year's time we issues about 28 fines. As many were multiple to the same property or for the same incident that figures out to be less than two per month. Hardly, the color scheme violations you have nightmares about.

And finally Sharon while I share your feelings about the lot in lofe some people are born into that does not allow me to dismiss the responsibilites I have to the paying, working, responsible members of my community. So then how is it fair you benefit from the servies the HOA provides but don't sahre in covering those costs? I refer to that world as La La Land.

If the HOA fails to pay THEIR bills in a timly manner guess what there will be fines and fees! he uility company that powers the lights throughout our property won' waive their charges because they feel sorry for the rest of us or they have a "softy" in the billing department. Not going to happen.

So we can disagree. I can certainly live with that. But perhaps you might consider when everyone fails to pay what should the HOA do with those bills?
How does that work in your view of the world?

Simply offering what you beleive should be the case without providing a viable solution or opion is IMO of little value.

Bills need to be paid whether you feel sorry for people or not. That's the real world.



AminB


Posts:0


08/31/2013 9:12 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 08/31/2013 8:52 AM
Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

Your bias shows more and more.




You're certainly entitled to your opinion.
If you believe that I am biased, then it's doubtful that I can change that opinion.
Therefore, I won't try. I'll simply allow everyone to make their own opinion.


Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

How about starting the idea of qualified people and get that in discussions all over the country?




I believe I started the thread on that very topic.
Please refer to my earlier post that contained it.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

All the details can be worked out.




I agree, details can be worked out.
I just want the details worked out prior to saying if I agree or disagree (as I've posted earlier).
It appears that you believe that once people can agree on a concept that they can agree on the details.
That can work for some individuals. It appears that I am not one of them.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

You don't even want to entertain the idea. you would have given some ideas about how it could be done, not being a naysayer.




I did entertain the idea.

You only offered a concept. I offered links to a similar program I have no problem with.

Instead of discussing the pros and cons of the laws and regulations surrounding the only program that has been offered, you seem to be stuck on defining the concept and where the unit can work out of.


Here's an idea you can enterain - take a look at the link I provided. Read what that office can and can't do. Then make changes to it and submit the idea to your State legislature explaining how you believe the benefits of such an office will help protect members of Associations - many of whom happen to vote.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

I do speak for myself .




You implied that you spoke for others when you posted that "I am sure homeowners would have no problems giving $100-$200 per year for such a committee so taxpayer money would not be used."

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

I can tell many people would pay for that $100-200 a year, just to have an accounting by their board members.




Do you have any surveys or documentation to give that statement some credibility?

I'm fairly certain that for everyone you find who are willing to pay that money, I can likely find someone who won't be.

If members of Associations truly wanted an accounting from their board, they would gather together (within their own Associations) and demand it. If the Board wouldn't give it to them, they would vote those people out of office and replace them with individuals who would provide them an accounting.

From your postings, you have made such a demand on your Association. Your Association said come and look at our records. You have refused to do this. You have apparently also refused to pay for someone else's time (your accountant or attorney perhaps) to do that for you. Therefore, I submit that your own actions indicate that you are not even willing to pay to make sure that you have an accounting.



Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

Just tell me or google how such a committee could even benefit the homeowners in other ways or how it can be done.




I did tell you.
In fact, I sent you a link so you can verify what I told you.
If you don't want to take the time to review the information the link provides on your own, I'm sorry to hear that. I simply don't have the time to do it for you.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

You just don't want a committee exist to oversee the HOA.




Did you miss where I posted that VA, the State I live in, has such a committee?

Since my State has one, I don't have to do any of the work you need to do if you want one in your State.


Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

I am talking about a committee with teeth, not just a place where they can get together and nothing comes out of it which is where BBB mediation services or the one in AZ have.




Did you miss the postings where I pointed out the consequences of what the Virginia CIC Board may do for violations? I suggest you go back and read it.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

Board members will not relent on good money they make under the table . . .




There's that broad brush again, implying that all Board members are crooks, which can then be interpreted that those who are on this site that serve on their Boards are also crooks.

I suggest you go back and re-read my postings to you about how such broad statements can damage the credibility of what is posted regardless of the intent you had when posting them.


Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

You mentioned internal change. Are you really retaining what I said or you just quote it and read selectively.




I do mention internal change. I said that I believe it is the most powerful change that can happen. I believe that to the point that I took action and made changes within my own Association. I've shared how it can be done. I've disclosed that it won't happen overnight.

I recall that you said it's too slow of a process for your current issue. That you said people move in and out of the development so it's difficult to gather support. That you said there is always a possibility that once corrected it can go back to the way it was so, in your opinion, it wasn't the best option.

I recall that you prefer to have a government agency to make such changes for you. I recall I pointed out that since TX doesn't have such an agency that making changes from within would likely be quicker. I don't recall you denying that it would be.

Therefore, if time is of the essence to your current issue, I'm not really sure why you are still lobbying me, and others on this site, that there should be governmental oversight for Assocaitions as the creation of such a bureau won't happen in time to address your issue.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

Unless there is a credible threat to their freedom or pocketbooks no internal change can do any good.




I disagree. I disagree because it has done good in my Association. I disagree because there have been postings on this site from others where it has done good in their Association.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Therefore, we will simply have to agree to disagree.


Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 7:50 AM

Do you have any problem with checks and balances. Again its a yes or no.




NO, I have no problems with having checks and balances. In fact, I would insist on it.

We just disagree on where those checks and balances should come from. Currently it comes from the membership. I think it should stay there as I believe those who are directly affected will care more about what is happening than an outside entity (governmental or otherwise) who isn't affected by what the Association does. You appear to believe that it should come from an outside entity.

Now, I do agree that there should be quicker remedies available for members than the court system when Associations violate the laws of the land. Virginia has such process and I have shared that process with you.

If you think TX should have a similar or different process, I suggest that you gather support from those who are registered to vote in TX and propose it to your State legislature.









There you go . You just agreed with me that there needs to be checks and balances. The words "can be" implies "prior". Ofcourse the details need to be worked out. The main thing is to get started.The problem is some of these biased guys and gals here don't even want it to get off the ground.
Hope by getting survey, you're not trying to put blocks on the road though. People who pay hundreds per year for taxes,improving their own homes, mortgage, normally shouldn't have any problem with $100 per year. Why didn't you say that can be worked out instead of asking me for a proof , like a survey or documentation? The non-biased answer would have been , that each subdivision can work out their own numbers. I am sure the cost of hiring a few people who can look over complaints , specially financials, can't be that much that 60-70M people who live under HOAs can't afford. Don't you agree? Any internal change won't be complete without teeth. All that is whistling in the wind and board members have to watch out for some oversight with teeth, otherwise it will be business as usual , even after a few years of internal change.

BTW, I am not lobbying you. I am answering you and discussing your points and points. At the end of the day it won't matter diddly squat what me and you agree on . It would matter even less what the known characters here say. They don't want any oversight with or without teeth.
FrankS10
(Kansas)

Posts:276


08/31/2013 9:13 AM  
Amin,

I am offended by the word "shyster".

Again I ask, where on any thread have you been rude and obnoxious to any person with an un-American looking name? You are selective with your insults, this is racism.

Answer the question, quit dodging it!
AminB


Posts:0


08/31/2013 9:23 AM  
Posted By FrankS10 on 08/31/2013 9:13 AM
Amin,

I am offended by the word "shyster".

Again I ask, where on any thread have you been rude and obnoxious to any person with an un-American looking name? You are selective with your insults, this is racism.

Answer the question, quit dodging it!



Oh so sad.You were offended? You know what they say, if the shoe fits...
Here is your answer (again with a flawed logic that your question has and it is typical of board members and their friends and associates). Rude and obnoxious are terms that YOU think I am and YOU used it and can be applied to anybody without regards to a particular race, or ethnicity or national origin, if I or anybody can use to describe them.It can be applied to anybody, you in particular fit the bill perfectly.
Now don't try to turn the imaginary table (only in your mind) on me. I have answered your question even though my question came before yours:

When have you made a comment about NSA, terrorism , water-boarding anywhere else on this thread , even on this website besides the post you made on 8/27 at 3:23pm to me?

Don't be a shyster anymore and answer it.
SharonH9


Posts:0


08/31/2013 9:42 AM  
Posted By JonD1 on 08/31/2013 8:59 AM
Posted By SharonH9 on 08/31/2013 8:00 AM
Posted By JonD1 on 08/31/2013 6:29 AM
Posted By GnomeX on 08/31/2013 12:15 AM
.

(Washington State)

How do I collect my money in Small Claims Court

"A money judgment in your favor does not necessarily mean that the money will be paid. The Small Claims Court does not collect the judgment for you. If no appeal is taken and the judgment is not paid within 30 days, or the time set by the court in the payment plan, you may request (in writing) and upon payment of a $20 fee, that a transcript of the judgment be entered into the civil docket of the court. At that time you may proceed with a method of collection such as garnishment of wages, bank accounts, and other monies of the defendant or an EXECUTION may be issued on cars, boats, or other personal property of the judgment debtor. Remember, the clerks cannot give you legal advice. You may need the assistance of an attorney or collection agency at this point. In the alternative, you may take your transcript of the judgment and file it in superior court for a fee of $20. Other fees may be required by the superior court clerk or county auditor. When this is done, it places a LIEN against all real estate in the name of the judgment debtor that is located in the county."

Liens, Writs of Execution, etc. are all about personal property seizures. Doesn't matter whether it is an HOA debt or otherwise. The idea that an HOA should not be able to lien or foreclose on debt and only use small claims is just overlooking this fact. It all still leads to seizing personal property to extinguish debt. Even in small claims court.





Thank you for taking the time to provide an explanation as to how or why small claims court may or may not work when trying to collect a debt in an HOA.

Amazing how some folks suggest they now have an opinion when in fact they are unaware of how or why their opinions fails in the real world.

One other limitation in SCC is the limit set on claims. What do you do when the amount in question exceeds the court's limit. Accept the loss?

The notion that having an ability to fine or impose fees on members by the HOA is somehow unacceptable or violates the Constitution is unrealistic.

Yes, rules in an HOA should not exist but look around should we then eliminate other rules in place throughout our lives? Wishful thinking at best.

To suggest the SCC system is in the position to satisfy problems of behavior in an HOA is limited thinking.

And by all means lets not hold some folks responsible for THEIR share of costs while screwing the other members who pay their fair share each month. Spoken like someone who has never had to pay the property's bills.

HOAs were set up under the law using certain procedures to cover different issues. Perhaps before some folks decide they have found a better way they might take the time to think their suggestions through because in many cases their ANSWERS are in fact ineffective at best.





JonD1,

As Glen and GnomeX posted, I see that my statement was too general and there are other things to consider then simply filing a small claims case. I conceded that but neither option is easy and each one of them has consequences. I am concerned that innocent members of the family are put out of their home because their parents didn't pay the HOA. Or an elderly person who is having trouble paying their bills.

I still do not believe in private citizens fining each other. When I say rules, I mean like accidentally leaving your garage door open or forgetting to bring in your trash can. Leaving your own car in the driveway overnight. Or heaven for bid if I put turquoise colored pots in my front yard or even put plastic flowers in them. Or where I put the sattalite dish or my air conditioning unit. Those silly things that people fuss over. Fines are too subjective. I believe there is too much of a chance for abuse or selective enforcement.

I did not suggest that small claims court satisfies behavior problems. I did not say that at all. To suggest that is limited thinking. I look at people and ask why they behave a certain way. What happened to them in their life to make them act the way they do?

The difference between you and I JonD1 is that I am a firm believer in drawing the lines between county, city, state, and federal authority. I just don't believe in that HOA concept of bringing authority down to neighborhood control. I prefer that control be left with my county, state, and federal governments. Imperfect that it is, I don't want or need another layer of authority to control my property or my life.





Sharon what you believe or your opinions are fine. My question to you would be the same you posed. Why would you then buy into an HOA? Not wishing any more rules or layers of government.

You see I believe those LIVING on the property and who have an investment in the property are best suited to govern the property. NOT someone at the state or federal level who has NEVER set foot on the property and now decides what should take place and why. Funny how you don't want HOA guidance but you dream about some governemnt agency to direct HOA operations.

No sure about things in Iowa but you can be subjected to fines, fees or the like every day. Pay your mortgage late. Pay your insurance late. Pay your taxes late. Miss a payment on your credit cards. My guess most places there will be a cost.

So those folks can fine you or charge you in an acceptable manner just not those manging your property? Makes little sense to me.

And as I have mentioned records indicate here over a year's time we issues about 28 fines. As many were multiple to the same property or for the same incident that figures out to be less than two per month. Hardly, the color scheme violations you have nightmares about.

And finally Sharon while I share your feelings about the lot in lofe some people are born into that does not allow me to dismiss the responsibilites I have to the paying, working, responsible members of my community. So then how is it fair you benefit from the servies the HOA provides but don't sahre in covering those costs? I refer to that world as La La Land.

If the HOA fails to pay THEIR bills in a timly manner guess what there will be fines and fees! he uility company that powers the lights throughout our property won' waive their charges because they feel sorry for the rest of us or they have a "softy" in the billing department. Not going to happen.

So we can disagree. I can certainly live with that. But perhaps you might consider when everyone fails to pay what should the HOA do with those bills?
How does that work in your view of the world?

Simply offering what you beleive should be the case without providing a viable solution or opion is IMO of little value.

Bills need to be paid whether you feel sorry for people or not. That's the real world.






I think we have some miscommunication here. To me, there is a difference between a fine and late fees. I interpret fines as charging someone a monetary amount for not following the rules. I never said people shouldn't pay for the services provided by the HOA. It's fining that I have the biggest problem with. It's just way too subjective.

I did make a suggestion that small claims court was an option to collect from those who don't pay and it is still an option. I conceded on the lien and foreclosure issue. You and others convinced me. I don't like it but as you say, it is reality

Again, perhaps we just have a different philosophy and view on life.
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17830


08/31/2013 9:59 AM  
Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 9:12 AM

There you go . You just agreed with me that there needs to be checks and balances.




Please don't read what you want to read in that.

Just because I agree with you that there should be checks and balances.

I disagree with you that those checks and balances should come from a governmental agency. As I posted, those checks and balances, in my opinion, should come from the members themselves.

Having an agency provide a quicker avenue to resolve violations of the law (note I did not say violations of the governing documents) I can certainly support. This is what VA currently has.

As I said, the devil is in the details and once the details are known can prevent the agreement to a general concept from ever materializing.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 9:12 AM

The main thing is to get started. The problem is some of these biased guys and gals here don't even want it to get off the ground.




Again, As I said, the devil is in the details and once the details are known can prevent the agreement to a general concept from ever materializing.

Therefore, it appears that the process has started.



Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 9:12 AM

People who pay hundreds per year for taxes,improving their own homes, mortgage, normally shouldn't have any problem with $100 per year. Why didn't you say that can be worked out instead of asking me for a proof , like a survey or documentation?




Because of the phrasing and words you chose. Those words and phrasing were making a statement vs. simply offering a possible way to fund such an agency. In my opinion, especially working within the media, statements should be backed up with facts. If the facts aren't there, such statements, as I pointed out, can have the individual making them lose credibility. If enough credibility is lost, at some point people start to believe that everything said is not credible.

Amin, you do have some good ideas but, in my opinion, they are presented in such a way that often causes you to lose credibility. I'm trying to help you understand this so your good ideas aren't lost just because you are the one that said them.

You may have already lost credibility with others.

Even though you have insinuated that, because I am a board member, I am a crook, take kickbacks, etc. and have actually said I am biased, you haven't yet lost credibility with me. Perhaps it hasn't happened with others as well. However, It could still happen but it hasn't happened yet.

BTW, I had already said that some of the details I needed was how it was going to be funded.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 9:12 AM

The non-biased answer would have been , that each subdivision can work out their own numbers.




Well, we can agree to disagree.

Personally, I don't think each Association can work out their own numbers when funding a governmental or external entity. There can certainly be prorated amounts based on the size of the Association but what happens if one Association is willing to pay and another one isn't.

What if there are enough that don't want to pay that the funding just simply isn't available?

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 9:12 AM

I am sure the cost of hiring a few people who can look over complaints , specially financials, can't be that much that 60-70M people who live under HOAs can't afford. Don't you agree?




Until the actual expense is known I can't agree or disagree.

Congress and the President thought that of Healthcare (or that is what we were told), yet there have been many many waivers granted and there have been changes in hiring practices that indicate that the funding methodology is flawed. Had all of these facts been known prior to agreeing on making the concept law - I don't think the law would have passed.


Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 9:12 AM

Any internal change won't be complete without teeth.




Yes, we know that this is what you believe to be true. However, you have given no indication that you have made internal changes and have them fail. Therefore, from my perspective, it's an opinion that may or may not be based in facts.

I outlined my reasons why I don't believe that statement to be true earlier in this thread. I'm not going over it again.

Since continuing to have us say the same statements over and over and over again isn't going to make either of the more or less true than they are already perceived, the best you and I can do is simply to agree to disagree and move on.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 9:12 AM

All that is whistling in the wind and board members have to watch out for some oversight with teeth, otherwise it will be business as usual , even after a few years of internal change.




Again, we will simply have to agree to disagree.


Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 9:12 AM

BTW, I am not lobbying you. I am answering you and discussing your points.




In my opinion, I haven't really seen a lot of discussing of my points.

You have certainly tried rephrasing your points to get an agreement to your points but I don't think you have been honestly discussing any of my points.

For Example: You as for making changes from within, you haven't discussed my points or even attempted to see if my points are valid by trying them within your own organization. You have simply dismissed them with varied excuses and preconceived (dare I say biased) opinions that since you see your neighbor as a crook (after all it is your neighbors who serve on the board) that they can't be trusted to do the right thing unless there is governmental (dare I say big brother) oversight.

I personally try and believe that most individuals want to do what is right. I'm realistic to know that this is not always the case. However, I'm not going to try not to become biased toward all for the actions of one or two.

Amin, your experiences have obviously been different than mine. I can understand your perspective but what I don't understand is when it can be beneficial to you, why you don't take your Association up on their offer to inspect the books. You have posted your reasoning as to why you believe going will be a waste of time. I just simply believe that your reasoning for not going is flawed and I pointed out why I believe this.

Therefore, the best you and I can really do is agree to disagree.

If there are enough agreements to simply disagree then further conversation becomes pointless as neither one of us appears willing to change their opinions. We may certainly understand the each others perspective but it just wasn't enough to change our opinions.



Personally, I think we have been approaching the limit of agreements to disagree. Not yet but it could happen soon if the conversations continue the way they have been.


I do wish you luck in resolving your issue before your time runs out.



AminB


Posts:0


08/31/2013 10:24 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 08/31/2013 9:59 AM
Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 9:12 AM

There you go . You just agreed with me that there needs to be checks and balances.




Please don't read what you want to read in that.

Just because I agree with you that there should be checks and balances.

I disagree with you that those checks and balances should come from a governmental agency. As I posted, those checks and balances, in my opinion, should come from the members themselves.

Having an agency provide a quicker avenue to resolve violations of the law (note I did not say violations of the governing documents) I can certainly support. This is what VA currently has.

As I said, the devil is in the details and once the details are known can prevent the agreement to a general concept from ever materializing.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 9:12 AM

The main thing is to get started. The problem is some of these biased guys and gals here don't even want it to get off the ground.




Again, As I said, the devil is in the details and once the details are known can prevent the agreement to a general concept from ever materializing.

Therefore, it appears that the process has started.



Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 9:12 AM

People who pay hundreds per year for taxes,improving their own homes, mortgage, normally shouldn't have any problem with $100 per year. Why didn't you say that can be worked out instead of asking me for a proof , like a survey or documentation?




Because of the phrasing and words you chose. Those words and phrasing were making a statement vs. simply offering a possible way to fund such an agency. In my opinion, especially working within the media, statements should be backed up with facts. If the facts aren't there, such statements, as I pointed out, can have the individual making them lose credibility. If enough credibility is lost, at some point people start to believe that everything said is not credible.

Amin, you do have some good ideas but, in my opinion, they are presented in such a way that often causes you to lose credibility. I'm trying to help you understand this so your good ideas aren't lost just because you are the one that said them.

You may have already lost credibility with others.

Even though you have insinuated that, because I am a board member, I am a crook, take kickbacks, etc. and have actually said I am biased, you haven't yet lost credibility with me. Perhaps it hasn't happened with others as well. However, It could still happen but it hasn't happened yet.

BTW, I had already said that some of the details I needed was how it was going to be funded.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 9:12 AM

The non-biased answer would have been , that each subdivision can work out their own numbers.




Well, we can agree to disagree.

Personally, I don't think each Association can work out their own numbers when funding a governmental or external entity. There can certainly be prorated amounts based on the size of the Association but what happens if one Association is willing to pay and another one isn't.

What if there are enough that don't want to pay that the funding just simply isn't available?

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 9:12 AM

I am sure the cost of hiring a few people who can look over complaints , specially financials, can't be that much that 60-70M people who live under HOAs can't afford. Don't you agree?




Until the actual expense is known I can't agree or disagree.

Congress and the President thought that of Healthcare (or that is what we were told), yet there have been many many waivers granted and there have been changes in hiring practices that indicate that the funding methodology is flawed. Had all of these facts been known prior to agreeing on making the concept law - I don't think the law would have passed.


Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 9:12 AM

Any internal change won't be complete without teeth.




Yes, we know that this is what you believe to be true. However, you have given no indication that you have made internal changes and have them fail. Therefore, from my perspective, it's an opinion that may or may not be based in facts.

I outlined my reasons why I don't believe that statement to be true earlier in this thread. I'm not going over it again.

Since continuing to have us say the same statements over and over and over again isn't going to make either of the more or less true than they are already perceived, the best you and I can do is simply to agree to disagree and move on.

Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 9:12 AM

All that is whistling in the wind and board members have to watch out for some oversight with teeth, otherwise it will be business as usual , even after a few years of internal change.




Again, we will simply have to agree to disagree.


Posted By AminB on 08/31/2013 9:12 AM

BTW, I am not lobbying you. I am answering you and discussing your points.




In my opinion, I haven't really seen a lot of discussing of my points.

You have certainly tried rephrasing your points to get an agreement to your points but I don't think you have been honestly discussing any of my points.

For Example: You as for making changes from within, you haven't discussed my points or even attempted to see if my points are valid by trying them within your own organization. You have simply dismissed them with varied excuses and preconceived (dare I say biased) opinions that since you see your neighbor as a crook (after all it is your neighbors who serve on the board) that they can't be trusted to do the right thing unless there is governmental (dare I say big brother) oversight.

I personally try and believe that most individuals want to do what is right. I'm realistic to know that this is not always the case. However, I'm not going to try not to become biased toward all for the actions of one or two.

Amin, your experiences have obviously been different than mine. I can understand your perspective but what I don't understand is when it can be beneficial to you, why you don't take your Association up on their offer to inspect the books. You have posted your reasoning as to why you believe going will be a waste of time. I just simply believe that your reasoning for not going is flawed and I pointed out why I believe this.

Therefore, the best you and I can really do is agree to disagree.

If there are enough agreements to simply disagree then further conversation becomes pointless as neither one of us appears willing to change their opinions. We may certainly understand the each others perspective but it just wasn't enough to change our opinions.



Personally, I think we have been approaching the limit of agreements to disagree. Not yet but it could happen soon if the conversations continue the way they have been.


I do wish you luck in resolving your issue before your time runs out.






There you go.Now I know of your bias. I couldn't care less if you agreed with me or not. I was specific. I said at the end of the day our agreement didn't mean jack squat. Why would I care to get your stamp of approval? At least you cleared your position that you don't want any meaningful change. My neighbors get elected by proxies when only 5% of the people know them. The presdient got elected and he wasn't even there that night and you're telling me , the board members are my neighbors? They are in name only. Only few people know them. You must be thinking people get elected on their merits. These HOAs have politics running up and down and left and right all over them. Its all about the power, maintaining it and getting kickbacks. I don't see any other reasons, do you? I hope you do live in the real world. I do.
About my association and their offer, I have explained at least 10 to 15 times and no need to rehash what I have already told you. Please refer to my earlier posts.
Either you live in the garden of Eden and nobody commits any crime or you try to convince me that I live in one. HOAs are made of ordinary people who when get elected can get air in their head. The air can over time turn into illegal activities, when the flow of money can be easy and when financing college kids or ordinary expenses play a role. Change from within and without teeth is absolutely meaningless. Just imagine if there were no prisons for all types of crimes. After all, government officials which are bigger versions of HOA officials but made of the same cloth nevertheless start as ordinary people and can turn into crooks. They can be investigated and put in prison. If prisons, police and enforcement were not available they could do it with impunity and throughout. You want no policing and no enforcement for HOA. They are no different than politicians. If there is no teeth , it will be a completely lawless land and every time we have to go within and try to bring new people who would commit the same type of crimes without even worrying about enforcement.Can you imagine what the crime level would be? Judging by some of the people here who answer me and my own HOA board members,they could do daylight robbery from our treasury of HOA. Politicians have checks and balances. Why can't a committee be formed to perform check and balances on HOAs?
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17830


08/31/2013 11:18 AM  
Amin,

It appears that we have reached the limit of agreeing to disagree.

As I said, I truly wish you luck in resolving your issue.


AminB


Posts:0


08/31/2013 11:26 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 08/31/2013 11:18 AM
Amin,

It appears that we have reached the limit of agreeing to disagree.

As I said, I truly wish you luck in resolving your issue.





Yeah I guess we have reached the limits of agreeing to disagree. You think HOAs are a breed apart and cannot have checks and balances.
I do wish you well.


FrankS10
(Kansas)

Posts:276


08/31/2013 11:51 AM  
Amin,


Again I ask, where on any thread have you been rude and obnoxious to any person with an un-American looking name? You are selective with your insults, this is racism.

Answer the question, quit dodging it!

TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17830


08/31/2013 12:48 PM  
Frank,

I believe that some individuals who can not defend their position any longer resort to name calling and insults rather than considering changing their position on things. Often the insults and name calling are designed to invoke an emotional response. I believe that this is done because it's typical that when emotions come into a discussion it interferes with the actual facts or issues. Additionally, if they can make others appear rude, obnoxious and emotional then it's easier to disregard what they are saying.

Lets be honest. Everyone is biased in one or more ways. This bias comes from the way they were raised, cultural differences, what they learned (either through formal education or watching how those around them behaved) and their personal experiences. The person who can recognize that they have a bias and then strive to not allow it to influence their decisions or actions are typically the better person.

I honestly don't believe that Amin has been selective with his insults. His insults seem to be based in his bias toward individuals who serve or are serving on an Associations Board of Directors. He has indeed made a few insults to some specific individuals. However, I personally believe those insults to be unfounded. I believe that others on this site think this as well.

I also think it is futile to get into an exchange of posts of insults as it doesn't really resolve anything. As I pointed out to Amin, I think it's best to simply let the posts speak for themselves and let others draw their own opinions.

I learned something a long time ago in the military. If one person thinks your an idiot, that person simply has a differing opinion. However, if the whole room thinks your an idiot, there might be something to it. It can be applied to many many situations.


For example, if I were to apply it to Amins Situation:

If one person thinks Amin should physically go and look at the records of the Association. That person is simply having a different opinion than Amin. However, if everyone who is posting about the issue thinks Amin should physically go and look at the records, perhaps there is something to that belief and Amin should reconsider his decision.


Frank, I think I understand why you are responding like you are. I'm just saying that in this environment, it's simply not worth the time and energy to do it.

Tim
GnomeX
(Washington)

Posts:253


08/31/2013 1:20 PM  
Posted By SharonH9 on 08/31/2013 8:00 AM

As Glen and GnomeX posted, I see that my statement was too general and there are other things to consider then simply filing a small claims case. I conceded that but neither option is easy and each one of them has consequences. I am concerned that innocent members of the family are put out of their home because their parents didn't pay the HOA. Or an elderly person who is having trouble paying their bills.




The idea I had was to setup payment plans for those class of people so they would NOT lose their homes. At great personal expense of MY time. Our HOA is no way obligated to do payment plans but I want to give them every opportunity to pay BEFORE it comes to them losing their homes. Many in this class of people HATE me for holding them to their debt. However they are LITERALLY a drain not only on me but everyone else as we all have to pay MORE to pick up their slack.

A few thank me for working with them (Very few). However many of the deadbeats coming in want to make baseless accusations, yell at me, accuse me of being cold and callous, some try intimidation, some make threats.

I could have just done like so many other HOAs. Slapped a lien on them, handed it over to our attorney for foreclosure, and spent all summer fishing and hiking. After dealing with these morons all summer and bending over backwards for them only to be spit on, I am starting to think that is probably what I should have done 2 months ago.

We are not talking about the downtrodden and oppressed. We are talking about a group of people that have such a bloated sense of entitlement they feel others must carry the financial burden of the common area property for them.


Posted By SharonH9 on 08/31/2013 8:00 AM

I still do not believe in private citizens fining each other. When I say rules, I mean like accidentally leaving your garage door open or forgetting to bring in your trash can. Leaving your own car in the driveway overnight. Or heaven for bid if I put turquoise colored pots in my front yard or even put plastic flowers in them. Or where I put the sattalite dish or my air conditioning unit. Those silly things that people fuss over. Fines are too subjective. I believe there is too much of a chance for abuse or selective enforcement.




Not all HOAs have that level of control. Our HOA certainly doesn't. Being more of a Libertarian, if it had that level of control, I would have never bought here. I carefully read the CCRs BEFORE buying here to know what I was getting into.

However some people LOVE that level of control. See that is the beauty of freedom in this country. No one can force you into an HOA that has that level of control.

But it isn't just HOAs that have those sort of controls. A lot of city governments have municipal codes that have that much control or more. Should we ban cities?


Posted By SharonH9 on 08/31/2013 8:00 AM

The difference between you and I JonD1 is that I am a firm believer in drawing the lines between county, city, state, and federal authority. I just don't believe in that HOA concept of bringing authority down to neighborhood control. I prefer that control be left with my county, state, and federal governments. Imperfect that it is, I don't want or need another layer of authority to control my property or my life.




I take just the opposite stance. The closer the authority is to the people the better. I can far more easily affect change within my HoA than I can with city, county, state, or federal govt.
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


08/31/2013 4:19 PM  
Posted By SharonH9 on 08/31/2013 8:00 AM

I am concerned that innocent members of the family are put out of their home because their parents didn't pay the HOA. Or an elderly person who is having trouble paying their bills.



Sharon I can tell by your post that you are a compassionate person but take the HOA out of the equation, the same thing would happen if they didn't pay their rent.

Posted By SharonH9 on 08/31/2013 8:00 AM

I still do not believe in private citizens fining each other. When I say rules, I mean like accidentally leaving your garage door open or forgetting to bring in your trash can. Leaving your own car in the driveway overnight. Or heaven for bid if I put turquoise colored pots in my front yard or even put plastic flowers in them. Or where I put the sattalite dish or my air conditioning unit. Those silly things that people fuss over. Fines are too subjective. I believe there is too much of a chance for abuse or selective enforcement.



Sharon I agree with you that there is a potential for abuse, our COA gives violators X number of days to cure a violation with no fine except in the most egregious situations. I also like the fact that FL requires a fining committee made up of non BOD members or their relatives to validate fines before they can be imposed.

Posted By SharonH9 on 08/31/2013 8:00 AM

I did not suggest that small claims court satisfies behavior problems. I did not say that at all. To suggest that is limited thinking. I look at people and ask why they behave a certain way. What happened to them in their life to make them act the way they do?


The sarcastic response would be that they survived the public school system. I thankfully graduated before the government got so involved with education and the schools stopped teaching people how to think and learn but to memorize trivia to pass a test to prove they knowed something. We've taken whole generations and taught them to be professional victims. Not a success in life, it can't be because of anything you did or more likely didn't do, the other guy must somehow be cheating.

Posted By SharonH9 on 08/31/2013 8:00 AM

The difference between you and I JonD1 is that I am a firm believer in drawing the lines between county, city, state, and federal authority. I just don't believe in that HOA concept of bringing authority down to neighborhood control. I prefer that control be left with my county, state, and federal governments. Imperfect that it is, I don't want or need another layer of authority to control my property or my life.


I understand that mentality, it's been drummed into the American psyche for years but local control i.e your neighbors are more likely to understand your needs than petty bureaucrats and politicians hundreds or thousands of miles away.







Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10576


08/31/2013 4:23 PM  
Funny Tim and Frank... I thought Amin was a woman!!! Wow was I really "Sexist"...

Former HOA President
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11638


08/31/2013 4:41 PM  
I understand that mentality, it's been drummed into the American psyche for years but local control i.e your neighbors are more likely to understand your needs than petty bureaucrats and politicians hundreds or thousands of miles away.

Well said.


SharonH9


Posts:0


08/31/2013 6:23 PM  
Are we done now? I hope so cause I'm exhausted.

TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17830


08/31/2013 8:44 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/31/2013 4:23 PM
Funny Tim and Frank... I thought Amin was a woman!!! Wow was I really "Sexist"...




Might be. I honestly don't know.
GnomeX
(Washington)

Posts:253


08/31/2013 9:51 PM  
Posted By SharonH9 on 08/31/2013 6:23 PM
Are we done now? I hope so cause I'm exhausted.





Probably not... I think Amin is trying to break a record for the longest thread ever.
FrankS10
(Kansas)

Posts:276


09/01/2013 5:51 AM  
Tim, Melissa;

Tim, I agree with your post-mostly. It is important to respond to baseless attacks though. If they are left un-challenged others may see them as the truth. It is also a way that aggressive individuals will attempt to silence any criticism against them by trying to label those they disagree with in a way that society would look down upon the individual.

When I posted my NSA comments I had not even considered Amin's heritage. I generally tend to think many, even most maybe, people will attempt to disguise their true identity on the net. When an individual is very aggressive in their insults and name calling, I believe even more so that their identity is covered and assumed as much here as Amin's posts became more obnoxious towards anyone who disagreed with him.

Those reading my posts most likely realize I pay close attention to current events. I also have a sense of humor, that may or may not be funny depending on one's point of view. As Amin's responses grew ever more bizarre to me, it was my view that others were reading the thread because as I said it made the rest of us feel good about our mental health. I felt it was certainly attracting attention, and thus the NSA comments.

Here's what needs to be understood though. Why did Amin just assume, and others were willing to accept, that just because a poster with an American name made an attempt with humor at linking the current news with the most unusual behavior I have witnessed on this site since coming here MUST be the result of racist feelings towards someone I did not even know. Tim, to assume this means the person, Amin, has to be biased like everyone else as you state.

My point of re-asking the question, over and over, if need be was to show him how ridiculous his asking the same question in perpetuity about being able to view documents when everyone here said he should be able to. He received his answer, but was for some reason not taking the advice. He just wanted to lob insults at people who were not reading this probably (his community), and then anyone who disagreed with him here. It is very bizarre behavior.

You are correct that we all have biases, that is different than racism though. We must all denounce frivolous attempts to claim discrimination and racism as it is a huge injustice to those who have actually experienced these vile acts. Amin is nothing more than a person who will play the victim card, and take it as far as necessary, just because he can not accept when others will not validate all of his beliefs and views. It is very disingenuous IMO.

Thanks.
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17830


09/01/2013 6:16 AM  

Posted By FrankS10 on 09/01/2013 5:51 AM

Here's what needs to be understood though. Why did Amin just assume, and others were willing to accept, that just because a poster with an American name made an attempt with humor at linking the current news with the most unusual behavior I have witnessed on this site since coming here MUST be the result of racist feelings towards someone I did not even know.




Frank,

I do understand.
Just so you know, I took what you posted about the NSA as humor.


AminB


Posts:0


09/01/2013 6:57 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 08/31/2013 12:48 PM
Frank,

I believe that some individuals who can not defend their position any longer resort to name calling and insults rather than considering changing their position on things. Often the insults and name calling are designed to invoke an emotional response. I believe that this is done because it's typical that when emotions come into a discussion it interferes with the actual facts or issues. Additionally, if they can make others appear rude, obnoxious and emotional then it's easier to disregard what they are saying.

Lets be honest. Everyone is biased in one or more ways. This bias comes from the way they were raised, cultural differences, what they learned (either through formal education or watching how those around them behaved) and their personal experiences. The person who can recognize that they have a bias and then strive to not allow it to influence their decisions or actions are typically the better person.

I honestly don't believe that Amin has been selective with his insults. His insults seem to be based in his bias toward individuals who serve or are serving on an Associations Board of Directors. He has indeed made a few insults to some specific individuals. However, I personally believe those insults to be unfounded. I believe that others on this site think this as well.

I also think it is futile to get into an exchange of posts of insults as it doesn't really resolve anything. As I pointed out to Amin, I think it's best to simply let the posts speak for themselves and let others draw their own opinions.

I learned something a long time ago in the military. If one person thinks your an idiot, that person simply has a differing opinion. However, if the whole room thinks your an idiot, there might be something to it. It can be applied to many many situations.


For example, if I were to apply it to Amins Situation:

If one person thinks Amin should physically go and look at the records of the Association. That person is simply having a different opinion than Amin. However, if everyone who is posting about the issue thinks Amin should physically go and look at the records, perhaps there is something to that belief and Amin should reconsider his decision.


Frank, I think I understand why you are responding like you are. I'm just saying that in this environment, it's simply not worth the time and energy to do it.

Tim





Its amazing that you read his answer and having the whole conversation in front of you and still come to the conclusion that he was right. To get the records straight, he made a comment about terrorism on 8/27 trying to change the subject, dismiss me, etc. I called him and told him he was a racist and he answered back exactly 12 hours later and said it was a general comment and that he was concerned. Then I asked him who else has he made that comment and I am still waiting.
Its the same with you guys, trying to maintain a facade of respectability , trust but no verify, coming up with one-sided tabulation in your case.Trying to send me to recite laws, talk to my neighbors , anything but accountability for my money. Why don't you go back and re-tabulate and add the insult you gave me yesterday to it.
You just want to do about your daily board ways and no light shine on it.
AminB


Posts:0


09/01/2013 7:01 AM  
Posted By FrankS10 on 08/31/2013 11:51 AM
Amin,


Again I ask, where on any thread have you been rude and obnoxious to any person with an un-American looking name? You are selective with your insults, this is racism.

Answer the question, quit dodging it!




What am I dealing with here a psycho or a 2-year old mentality? Mostly a racist who still hasn't shown a similar racist post that he did on 8/27, page 7 at 3:23pm and said he had on 8:28 3:23am, page 8. What a board member, friend ,associate or whatever you wanna call yourself.
May be its too much for you and you need to take some pills for your condition. You just can't handle it.
AminB


Posts:0


09/01/2013 7:05 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/31/2013 4:23 PM
Funny Tim and Frank... I thought Amin was a woman!!! Wow was I really "Sexist"...



ooh you little DICKens. Trying to pick up for your buddy "spineless jellyfish" , ey? May be he needs a woman to fight his battles for him.
One thing I always gave you credit was that you knew bones. I have bones and I express my opinions. Your jellyfish buddy doesn't have any and he can't even express his. Time to horn your skills?
AminB


Posts:0


09/01/2013 7:06 AM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/31/2013 4:41 PM
I understand that mentality, it's been drummed into the American psyche for years but local control i.e your neighbors are more likely to understand your needs than petty bureaucrats and politicians hundreds or thousands of miles away.

Well said.





The jellyfish speaks. Still wants to be hidden. No lights to be shone on his path.
AminB


Posts:0


09/01/2013 7:11 AM  
Posted By SharonH9 on 08/31/2013 6:23 PM
Are we done now? I hope so cause I'm exhausted.




I would have imagined somebody who has been thrown out of a homeowner meeting that she and her husband paid for it, and suffered the ultimate disrespect would take a different view on board members. I came here because whoever made this site , just like other board member trait highjacked the name. If I had known the characters that "dispense" advice here are board members I would have never even posted once. Its wishful thinking that board members would tell people how to get accounting form them.
AminB


Posts:0


09/01/2013 7:12 AM  
Posted By GnomeX on 08/31/2013 9:51 PM
Posted By SharonH9 on 08/31/2013 6:23 PM
Are we done now? I hope so cause I'm exhausted.





Probably not... I think Amin is trying to break a record for the longest thread ever.




No just answering BS that is thrown my way. Board members here and in general are great at deception, thievery, and thuggish behavior.Just can't let them go unanswered.
AminB


Posts:0


09/01/2013 7:14 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 09/01/2013 6:16 AM

Posted By FrankS10 on 09/01/2013 5:51 AM

Here's what needs to be understood though. Why did Amin just assume, and others were willing to accept, that just because a poster with an American name made an attempt with humor at linking the current news with the most unusual behavior I have witnessed on this site since coming here MUST be the result of racist feelings towards someone I did not even know.




Frank,

I do understand.
Just so you know, I took what you posted about the NSA as humor.





You did , huh? How come when he said he has posted similar comments here he couldn't show them to me and you "do understand"? Same old behavior that emanates from dishonest tabulation and operating in darkness.A gentleman agreement among thieves.
AminB


Posts:0


09/01/2013 7:19 AM  
Posted By FrankS10 on 09/01/2013 5:51 AM
Tim, Melissa;

Tim, I agree with your post-mostly. It is important to respond to baseless attacks though. If they are left un-challenged others may see them as the truth. It is also a way that aggressive individuals will attempt to silence any criticism against them by trying to label those they disagree with in a way that society would look down upon the individual.

When I posted my NSA comments I had not even considered Amin's heritage. I generally tend to think many, even most maybe, people will attempt to disguise their true identity on the net. When an individual is very aggressive in their insults and name calling, I believe even more so that their identity is covered and assumed as much here as Amin's posts became more obnoxious towards anyone who disagreed with him.

Those reading my posts most likely realize I pay close attention to current events. I also have a sense of humor, that may or may not be funny depending on one's point of view. As Amin's responses grew ever more bizarre to me, it was my view that others were reading the thread because as I said it made the rest of us feel good about our mental health. I felt it was certainly attracting attention, and thus the NSA comments.

Here's what needs to be understood though. Why did Amin just assume, and others were willing to accept, that just because a poster with an American name made an attempt with humor at linking the current news with the most unusual behavior I have witnessed on this site since coming here MUST be the result of racist feelings towards someone I did not even know. Tim, to assume this means the person, Amin, has to be biased like everyone else as you state.

My point of re-asking the question, over and over, if need be was to show him how ridiculous his asking the same question in perpetuity about being able to view documents when everyone here said he should be able to. He received his answer, but was for some reason not taking the advice. He just wanted to lob insults at people who were not reading this probably (his community), and then anyone who disagreed with him here. It is very bizarre behavior.

You are correct that we all have biases, that is different than racism though. We must all denounce frivolous attempts to claim discrimination and racism as it is a huge injustice to those who have actually experienced these vile acts. Amin is nothing more than a person who will play the victim card, and take it as far as necessary, just because he can not accept when others will not validate all of his beliefs and views. It is very disingenuous IMO.

Thanks.




How come you try to sweep this under the rug. You made a racist comment o 8/27 at 3:23pm and when I called you on it you aid it wasn't meant to be and you have made similar comments here. When I asked you for date and time you tried to change the subject and actually went psycho on me. even your buddy Tim was concerned about your mental health. I can see you have taken some pills and calmed down. Now answer the question : when did you make a similar comment about NSA, terrorism and water-boarding to someone else before 8/27?
I bet you can't. I guess I'll get a 2-year older response , or if you had any honor(which I doubt it), you woudl admit that was racist rant and you there isn't any on this and apologize.
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17830


09/01/2013 7:44 AM  
Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 6:57 AM

Its amazing that you read his answer and having the whole conversation in front of you and still come to the conclusion that he was right.




I said I understood and that I took what he posted as humor.
Granted, others may have taken what he posted differently.



Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 6:57 AM

To get the records straight, he made a comment about terrorism on 8/27 trying to change the subject, dismiss me, etc.




No. He made a comment about the news.

He also made a joke (a poor one but it was intended as a joke) that you may be on their watch list.

He made yet another joke that, from my understanding, the way you continued to ask the same questions over and over and over again even after you were provided answers that a conversation with you could be considered torture.

Granted, based on your response, what was intended was interpreted differently by you and perhaps others.

Here is his actual posting:


Posted By FrankS10 on 08/27/2013 7:33 AM
Just wondering since the NSA is in the news so much recently, what do you think they do when they come across threads like this? LOL! I bet Amin is on a watch list already Those guys are probably entertained so much it is putting our national security at risk!

I have another idea, when we capture potential terrorists, we don't need to waterboard them any more-just let them read this thread and have a one on one with Amin.






Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 6:57 AM

Its the same with you guys, trying to maintain a facade of respectability




You are entitled to your opinion.

Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 6:57 AM

trust but no verify, coming up with one-sided tabulation in your case.Trying to send me to recite laws




Well, if your referring to my posts, I provided links to where I obtained the information so the reader could verify my interpretation of that information. If I have an incorrect interpretation (and I have had those) the reader is more easily able to correct what I have posted from the links provided.

It's not up to the poster to trust and verify, it's up to the reader.


Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 6:57 AM

talk to my neighbors , anything but accountability for my money.




To my knowledge, no one on here lives in your Association or serves on your Board of Directors. Therefore, we can not account for your money.

However, we can give you methods to obtain that information, which we have done.

We have all also agreed that you have a right to see those records and two of us (Glen and I) have provided you links to the law that specifies that right. This way, you could trust and verify that we were correct.

Everyone has also said that the Association should give you access to those records. You have posted that the Associations has invited you to take a look at those records. Per TX law, that is all they have to do until you physically go and look at them. You may verify this through the links Glen and I provided.

I agree that Associations should accommodate every request for documentation that isn't an issue of privacy or can harm litigation. In fact, from a layman's interpretation the law says this as well. However, the law doesn't require the Association to create special reports for you if the existing reports don't have the information in a method you would prefer them to be.

Therefore, from my perspective, and based on the varied posts this perspective is shared by others, your Association has thus far complied with the law regarding access to the documents. If you don't want to utilize the access provided (and the law requires), that is certainly your choice.



Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 6:57 AM

Why don't you go back and re-tabulate and add the insult you gave me yesterday to it.




I answered that already.

You have posted that you don't believe my response and you don't believe numbers. Yet, you have not provided numbers of your own to dispute the numbers currently provided. Since you don't believe what I post, it seems pointless for me to try and convince you.

In fact, just to clarify, had I counted insults toward you I would not have counted that one post from Frank as I didn't take it as an insult. I took it as humor.

However, instead of asking someone else to do something that you can easily do for yourself, you can always verify the numbers I provided and include the numbers of the insults to you.
The fact that you prefer to try and bully someone else to do that for you with insults and innuendos, to me, is just showing laziness on your part.



Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 6:57 AM

You just want to do about your daily board ways and no light shine on it.




As I said, you are welcome to do the work yourself.




TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17830


09/01/2013 7:55 AM  
Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 7:19 AM

even your buddy Tim was concerned about your mental health.




Amin,

Perhaps I gave the wrong impression. Allow me to clarify.
I was not then and am not now concerned about Frank's mental health.

Based only on his postings, I don't think there is an issue with Franks mental health just as, based on your postings, I don't think there is an issue with your mental health.


AminB


Posts:0


09/01/2013 7:58 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 09/01/2013 7:44 AM
Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 6:57 AM

Its amazing that you read his answer and having the whole conversation in front of you and still come to the conclusion that he was right.




I said I understood and that I took what he posted as humor.
Granted, others may have taken what he posted differently.



Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 6:57 AM

To get the records straight, he made a comment about terrorism on 8/27 trying to change the subject, dismiss me, etc.




No. He made a comment about the news.

He also made a joke (a poor one but it was intended as a joke) that you may be on their watch list.

He made yet another joke that, from my understanding, the way you continued to ask the same questions over and over and over again even after you were provided answers that a conversation with you could be considered torture.

Granted, based on your response, what was intended was interpreted differently by you and perhaps others.

Here is his actual posting:


Posted By FrankS10 on 08/27/2013 7:33 AM
Just wondering since the NSA is in the news so much recently, what do you think they do when they come across threads like this? LOL! I bet Amin is on a watch list already Those guys are probably entertained so much it is putting our national security at risk!

I have another idea, when we capture potential terrorists, we don't need to waterboard them any more-just let them read this thread and have a one on one with Amin.






Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 6:57 AM

Its the same with you guys, trying to maintain a facade of respectability




You are entitled to your opinion.

Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 6:57 AM

trust but no verify, coming up with one-sided tabulation in your case.Trying to send me to recite laws




Well, if your referring to my posts, I provided links to where I obtained the information so the reader could verify my interpretation of that information. If I have an incorrect interpretation (and I have had those) the reader is more easily able to correct what I have posted from the links provided.

It's not up to the poster to trust and verify, it's up to the reader.


Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 6:57 AM

talk to my neighbors , anything but accountability for my money.




To my knowledge, no one on here lives in your Association or serves on your Board of Directors. Therefore, we can not account for your money.

However, we can give you methods to obtain that information, which we have done.

We have all also agreed that you have a right to see those records and two of us (Glen and I) have provided you links to the law that specifies that right. This way, you could trust and verify that we were correct.

Everyone has also said that the Association should give you access to those records. You have posted that the Associations has invited you to take a look at those records. Per TX law, that is all they have to do until you physically go and look at them. You may verify this through the links Glen and I provided.

I agree that Associations should accommodate every request for documentation that isn't an issue of privacy or can harm litigation. In fact, from a layman's interpretation the law says this as well. However, the law doesn't require the Association to create special reports for you if the existing reports don't have the information in a method you would prefer them to be.

Therefore, from my perspective, and based on the varied posts this perspective is shared by others, your Association has thus far complied with the law regarding access to the documents. If you don't want to utilize the access provided (and the law requires), that is certainly your choice.



Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 6:57 AM

Why don't you go back and re-tabulate and add the insult you gave me yesterday to it.




I answered that already.

You have posted that you don't believe my response and you don't believe numbers. Yet, you have not provided numbers of your own to dispute the numbers currently provided. Since you don't believe what I post, it seems pointless for me to try and convince you.

In fact, just to clarify, had I counted insults toward you I would not have counted that one post from Frank as I didn't take it as an insult. I took it as humor.

However, instead of asking someone else to do something that you can easily do for yourself, you can always verify the numbers I provided and include the numbers of the insults to you.
The fact that you prefer to try and bully someone else to do that for you with insults and innuendos, to me, is just showing laziness on your part.



Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 6:57 AM

You just want to do about your daily board ways and no light shine on it.




As I said, you are welcome to do the work yourself.







Oh sure, you did the mis-tabulation and now you want me to go correct your faulty and biased work. I never asked you or anybody else here to account for my money. That would be silly . You don't even know where my HOA is loacted. Typical one-sided, faulty board member logic.How come you didn't answer the fact that when I asked him if he has ever made a similar comment anytime before this one on this site and he has yet to answer?Instead you agreed with him. The guy answered me with a psychotic or a 2-year old response and you still took his side and insulted me. The least I was expecting was for you to ask him to apologize. Lofty expectation from aboard member I guess.

AminB


Posts:0


09/01/2013 8:05 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 09/01/2013 7:55 AM
Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 7:19 AM

even your buddy Tim was concerned about your mental health.




Amin,

Perhaps I gave the wrong impression. Allow me to clarify.
I was not then and am not now concerned about Frank's mental health.

Based only on his postings, I don't think there is an issue with Franks mental health just as, based on your postings, I don't think there is an issue with your mental health.





Sure its always a wrong impression, a little mis-tabulation, a little one-sidedness. Its really great to be given a clean bill of health by somebody who doesn't want an independent agency looking over his shoulder. I think I'll frame this email and hang it on the wall. A board member who wants to operate in darkness has given a homeowner who just wants the light shine on his work for everybody to see, has just been endorsed as being sane.
If you don't want to operate under a light with my money then I would think you are hiding something. Your actual homeowners probably think so too.Its totally insane of you to think that you can have a fiduciary responsibility (most probably by proxy vote) and nobody can independently verify it, who has teeth and can put you in jail if thievery is committed.
FrankS10
(Kansas)

Posts:276


09/01/2013 8:13 AM  
Tim,

Amin has had too much success his entire life playing the victim card. I have a solid understanding of why his HOA Board treats him as they do based on what we have seen here. He knows that the comments I made were in humor, but playing the victim and allowing his own racism to be blurred by this strategy works for him.

I ask the same question again Amin, answer it. You do not get to assume racism was behind any comments. You have been called out and can not defend your words, your responses remain bizarre.

Tim, it was not a joke in poor taste IMO. I can only describe responses like Amin's as irrational. How many times was he given an answer and his only response was to ignore it and attack. Yes, if someone conducted themselves as such in our presence, I believe most people would remove themselves from his proximity ASAP.

Our world has become so PC that we now fear pointing out the obvious. If you debate someone and they sound like a broken record over and over, something is wrong. No doubt he will continue here along the racist lines just as he did attacking everyone who did not respond exactly as he demanded. And you believe this is mentally stable? I do not.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10576


09/01/2013 8:36 AM  
My assessment that Amin is a woman may be true... Unreasonable...thickheaded...and only listens to their own voice...Yep that's a woman for you...

Oops got to go... The NSA just arrived at my door and they want to know if I have any answers why one can't see a Budget versus Actual reports from a HOA in Texas from over 3 years ago... They are wearing black suits should I be concerned???

Former HOA President
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17830


09/01/2013 8:40 AM  
Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 8:05 AM

Its really great to be given a clean bill of health by somebody who doesn't want an independent agency looking over his shoulder.




Amin, this is again another incorrect statement that can lessen your credibility.
Anyone who reads this thread can clearly see where I said VA has such an agency, they can use the links I provided to verify that the agency indeed does exist, and they can easily read where I've stated several times that I support that VA agency.

Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 8:05 AM

I think I'll frame this email and hang it on the wall. A board member who wants to operate in darkness has given a homeowner who just wants the light shine on his work for everybody to see, has just been endorsed as being sane.




Again another incorrect statement and perhaps a misinterpretation of what I posted.

I said I had no concerns over the mental health condition of you or Frank.

This is not the same as saying either of you are sane or not. Even if I were qualified to make such a determination, which I am not, the minor interaction with the posts in this forum would likely not be enough documentation to make such a determination.

I was simply stating that I haven't seen anything in these posts that has me question the mental health of either of you.


As for operating in darkness, this is simply untrue. As I posted, I was able to make many, many, many changes to how my Associations operates by working from within so the members of my Association can easily find out any of the information of my Association that you are currently seeking from your Association. I partially explained in this thread and more detailed in other threads how, if someone wants to put in the time and energy, they could probably make the same changes in their Association.

Alas, you don't want to commit that time and energy.





Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 8:05 AM

If you don't want to operate under a light with my money then I would think you are hiding something.




I expect that you are referring to your Association. With this expectation I would say that that would certainly be one perception that is being created.

I believe that if you believe that your Board doesn't operate under a light that you should do everything possible to make that light shine as bright as you can. The difference between you and I appear to be our methodologies in making that light shine. I prefer to do it myself with the assistance of my neighbors and make changes from within. Based on your postings, you prefer to complain to some higher authority and have them do the work for you.

I suppose either methodology can work.

In Virginia, we have both options. It appears that Texas doesn't (except by using the courts). Therefore, it appears that your options are limited in how you can make that light shine.



Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 8:05 AM

Your actual homeowners probably think so too.Its totally insane of you to think that you can have a fiduciary responsibility (most probably by proxy vote) and nobody can independently verify it, who has teeth and can put you in jail if thievery is committed.




Yet another incorrect statement that can damage your credibility.

As I posted, the members in my Association have access to all the governing documents, all the minutes of all the meetings and all the supporting documents (reports, ballots, submitted proxies, etc.) to those meetings available to them via the internet. All they have to do is go to the website and access it. If they don't have access to the internet, they can ask a neighbor who does or simply ask the Board and it will be provided. The internet site address is listed in all of our Associations newsletters and mentioned several times in our Associations book of governing documents (which is provided to every member). There is also a link to it from our county list of HOA/COAs.

Any member who believes that a Boards decision, action or lack of action is in violation of a VA law may file a complaint with the VA CIC Ombudsman's office (link provided earlier in the thread) who has the legal authority to independently verify the complaint. As my previous postings stated and the links I provided can verify, there is certainly "some teeth" in the authority that office has when identifying violations.

Amin, based on the number of incorrect statements you are making, it appears that you are actually trying to damage your credibility. I hope that isn't the case.



TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17830


09/01/2013 8:57 AM  
Posted By FrankS10 on 09/01/2013 8:13 AM

And you believe this is mentally stable? I do not.




Frank,

As I said, I don't have the qualifications to determine mental stability. To me, as you have pointed out, Amin seems to like playing the victim card. To me, he also trys to bully others to get the responses he wants so he can claim he has support for his way of addressing whatever issue he tries to address. I suspect that he does the same thing with everyone.

However, I don't see this activity as a concern for his mental health (as he hasn't indicated that he would harm anyone). I see it as character flaws. Granted, character is completely based in the personal believes of the person determining the character of another.

I don't know, perhaps character and mental health are two sides of the same coin (so to speak).

I certainly agree that if Amin behaved this way with his Association that they would get to the point of simply saying "come and inspect our records for yourself" as this action had them comply with the law and they no longer have to deal with Amin's comments.

In my opinion, Amin is actually lucky that they offered him to inspect. If I recall, Amin had sent a letter from his attorney requesting specific information. A letter from an attorney could have been seen as potential litigation and, based on that alone, they could have denied access without a court order (at least that is my layman's interpretation of the law).

Anyway, as I said, I see it as character flaws.
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17830


09/01/2013 9:02 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/01/2013 8:36 AM
My assessment that Amin is a woman may be true... Unreasonable...thickheaded...and only listens to their own voice...Yep that's a woman for you...

Oops got to go... The NSA just arrived at my door and they want to know if I have any answers why one can't see a Budget versus Actual reports from a HOA in Texas from over 3 years ago... They are wearing black suits should I be concerned???




Nope. Just duck into the darkness all of us board members appear to operate from.
Our lack of spines will allow us to hide better
AminB


Posts:0


09/01/2013 9:03 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 09/01/2013 8:40 AM
Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 8:05 AM

Its really great to be given a clean bill of health by somebody who doesn't want an independent agency looking over his shoulder.




Amin, this is again another incorrect statement that can lessen your credibility.
Anyone who reads this thread can clearly see where I said VA has such an agency, they can use the links I provided to verify that the agency indeed does exist, and they can easily read where I've stated several times that I support that VA agency.

Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 8:05 AM

I think I'll frame this email and hang it on the wall. A board member who wants to operate in darkness has given a homeowner who just wants the light shine on his work for everybody to see, has just been endorsed as being sane.




Again another incorrect statement and perhaps a misinterpretation of what I posted.

I said I had no concerns over the mental health condition of you or Frank.

This is not the same as saying either of you are sane or not. Even if I were qualified to make such a determination, which I am not, the minor interaction with the posts in this forum would likely not be enough documentation to make such a determination.

I was simply stating that I haven't seen anything in these posts that has me question the mental health of either of you.


As for operating in darkness, this is simply untrue. As I posted, I was able to make many, many, many changes to how my Associations operates by working from within so the members of my Association can easily find out any of the information of my Association that you are currently seeking from your Association. I partially explained in this thread and more detailed in other threads how, if someone wants to put in the time and energy, they could probably make the same changes in their Association.

Alas, you don't want to commit that time and energy.





Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 8:05 AM

If you don't want to operate under a light with my money then I would think you are hiding something.




I expect that you are referring to your Association. With this expectation I would say that that would certainly be one perception that is being created.

I believe that if you believe that your Board doesn't operate under a light that you should do everything possible to make that light shine as bright as you can. The difference between you and I appear to be our methodologies in making that light shine. I prefer to do it myself with the assistance of my neighbors and make changes from within. Based on your postings, you prefer to complain to some higher authority and have them do the work for you.

I suppose either methodology can work.

In Virginia, we have both options. It appears that Texas doesn't (except by using the courts). Therefore, it appears that your options are limited in how you can make that light shine.



Posted By AminB on 09/01/2013 8:05 AM

Your actual homeowners probably think so too.Its totally insane of you to think that you can have a fiduciary responsibility (most probably by proxy vote) and nobody can independently verify it, who has teeth and can put you in jail if thievery is committed.




Yet another incorrect statement that can damage your credibility.

As I posted, the members in my Association have access to all the governing documents, all the minutes of all the meetings and all the supporting documents (reports, ballots, submitted proxies, etc.) to those meetings available to them via the internet. All they have to do is go to the website and access it. If they don't have access to the internet, they can ask a neighbor who does or simply ask the Board and it will be provided. The internet site address is listed in all of our Associations newsletters and mentioned several times in our Associations book of governing documents (which is provided to every member). There is also a link to it from our county list of HOA/COAs.

Any member who believes that a Boards decision, action or lack of action is in violation of a VA law may file a complaint with the VA CIC Ombudsman's office (link provided earlier in the thread) who has the legal authority to independently verify the complaint. As my previous postings stated and the links I provided can verify, there is certainly "some teeth" in the authority that office has when identifying violations.

Amin, based on the number of incorrect statements you are making, it appears that you are actually trying to damage your credibility. I hope that isn't the case.






Oh no, somebody who doesn't want financial accountability, just claimed I am damaging my credibility. Somebody who does one-sided tabulations in favor of his buddies says I am damaging my credibility. Somebody who looks at an obvious racist rant says I agree with you Frank and does not criticize him at all.
How come when I asked him if he has made similar comments about ND+SA , terrorism PREDATING 8/27 at 3:23 and he couldn't , you didn't ask him? That would have enhanced your credibility.

How come you didn't re-tabulate the insults and just did it one-sided, to reflect the truth? That would have enhanced your credibility.

What happens in VA with "some teeth" if the office identifies violations by HOSA. Will they shut them down and in case of crimes refer them to the DA office for possible jail time and fines?

Answering these would certainly enhance your credibility as somebody who has fiduciary duties and yet does not want an independent agency with real teeth and not "some teeth". Homeowners need 100% assurances for their money they give to you not some assurances.
AminB


Posts:0


09/01/2013 9:06 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/01/2013 8:36 AM
My assessment that Amin is a woman may be true... Unreasonable...thickheaded...and only listens to their own voice...Yep that's a woman for you...

Oops got to go... The NSA just arrived at my door and they want to know if I have any answers why one can't see a Budget versus Actual reports from a HOA in Texas from over 3 years ago... They are wearing black suits should I be concerned???




You should be concerned since these comments POSTDATE his comments on 8/27. You need to go bang your fraudster buddy, hug some bones, munch on some bones or do something useful you seem to be thoroughly enjoying and eating the fruits of.
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