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Subject: How to Disband Your HOA
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Author Messages
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


07/26/2013 6:09 PM  
According to some posters HOA's are evil incarnate, run by megalomaniac Board Members who want to fine you into poverty and then foreclose and take your property. So why not disband your HOA? Most CC&R's have a mechanism by which they can be dissolved, follow it, cross all of the t's and dot all of the i's and voila, no more HOA. All you have to do (in most cases, check your CC&R's and State laws) is get your fellow homeowners to agree to disband and vote on it, which usually but not always requires 100% affirmative votes.

Next you need to dispose of any common areas such as the plots the entrance marker and storm water retention pond(s) inhabit. If you ask your local taxing authority, I'm sure they would be happy to take over the maintenance for them but they may make your home part of a "Special Taxing District" to pay for it. For HOA's that have pools and other amenities, perhaps you could sell them to someone who would open them up to the public.

After you get over that hurdle, you will need to distribute any HOA funds, after all the bills are paid and dissolve the HOA corporation with the state. Of course you would still have the deed restrictions which your neighbors could take you to court to enforce so you'll probably want to dissolve them too. You can do a simple internet search to find out how.

Oh I almost forgot, you probably will need the approval of your mortgage holder too, when they wrote the mortgage it was with the understanding that certain conditions would be met, which if the HOA were dissolved, would no longer exist, so you would be modifying the contract.

I am not an attorney nor do I work in the legal field, this is simply my lay understanding on how easy it is to dissolve an HOA, shouldn't take more than a decade or two. The above advice does not apply to condo's, townhomes or co-op's.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10576


07/26/2013 6:26 PM  
My HOA documents allow for disbanding it. It is that it has to be turned over to a Management company. Meaning we no longer have a vote and still have to pay the management company to pay our bills. So we could not control how much was collected either.

We preferred to keep all business in house and under our control...

Former HOA President
KevinK7
(Florida)

Posts:1343


07/26/2013 7:25 PM  
In one of my neighborhoods the covenants and restrictions were pretty clear - the homeowners had the option to form a HOA. Each year those homeowners had to essentially re-certify the HOA with a written document. If a certain threshold of homeowners was not met the HOA would then lose any enforcement capabilities.

I had thought this mechanism was pretty great but I would much prefer if this was more of a law then a provision in a set of covenants and restrictions. It did little to prevent the board of directors to continue to assert control even though they never had anything in writing per the covenant. They had even admitted in court that they had never had a roll sheet that would have granted them enforcement authority.

In my other neighborhood there really was no mention of disbandment but then again the way the neighborhood was established was a little strange. The covenants were drafted before any HOA was created. There is no mention of a HOA anywhere. Developers changed and then another property unrelated to the original covenants was established and that eventually became a clubhouse that then insisted it was the HOA over the properties. Still no disbandment provisions but then again we are talking about 30+ years ago.

I actually find Florida's Marketable Record Title Act to be a quite useful tool. The covenants expired and I was freed.

BUT, as with both neighborhoods the BoD have ignored either the C&Rs or the law (MRTA) which goes to solidify my belief that it really doesn't matter what your covenants or laws say - if you have someone who is unwilling to recognize or unaware of the things that govern their association then abuse will occur. I have seen some neighborhoods that have thrived with a HOA and an effective BoD and I have seen some crumble. This is where I would agree with Mike - checks and balances should be desired. I do not think that leaving it for the average homeowner is enough because frankly, I believe most homeowners just simply do not understand these issues, and considering the pool for the BoD comes from this same body of people, then it is only a matter of time before some idiot gets elected to the board.
FredO
(California)

Posts:198


07/26/2013 8:25 PM  
Posted By KevinK7 on 07/26/2013 7:25 PM


BUT, as with both neighborhoods the BoD have ignored either the C&Rs or the law (MRTA) which goes to solidify my belief that it really doesn't matter what your covenants or laws say - if you have someone who is unwilling to recognize or unaware of the things that govern their association then abuse will occur. I have seen some neighborhoods that have thrived with a HOA and an effective BoD and I have seen some crumble. This is where I would agree with Mike - checks and balances should be desired. I do not think that leaving it for the average homeowner is enough because frankly, I believe most homeowners just simply do not understand these issues, and considering the pool for the BoD comes from this same body of people, then it is only a matter of time before some idiot gets elected to the board.




Kevin,

i totally agree with you but also hold that there are some great HOA and they (the people who are not quite able to understand the role or the rules) come and go in cycles. Sometimes longer cycles, sometimes with overt bad intent (or control issues) and sometimes shorter cycles.

The property is still a great place to live, but it would be better if it were less filled with petty drama by petty despots. Of course to be fair and a little more objective, there occasions where you do get the outright hostile neighbor who refuses to follow the rules no matter what. We had a sort of hard case with with one house. Turns out the house was occupied by renters and they just refused to follow the rules. (we have only three rental units out of 220 member lots).

AminB


Posts:0


07/29/2013 7:52 AM  
To me this sounds like an article with titles like " why you should be scared of losing your valuable HOA" or "it is impossible to disband your HOA so get over it". Your just another defender of HOAs who like to keep the status quo.
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17830


07/29/2013 8:18 AM  
Amin,

It certainly isn't easy to disband an HOA (I believe it's impossible to disband a COA).
However, it is possible providing the members and the local authorities are willing.

Glen is simply pointing out, as he understands it, must legally be done to make it happen.

Why shoot the messenger?

AminB


Posts:0


07/29/2013 8:32 AM  
This was an article so full of scare tactics. The title is definitely misleading. When somebody looks at the title, the tendency is to be discouraged and forget about disbanding their (very possibly corrupt HOA with its mostly arrogant and answerable to no one Board of directors). The more you read, with its tone of "see how bad it could get if you disband them" , you get a feeling that the author is trying to discourage them to disband their HOAs not to teach them how to as the title suggests.I was hoping this website to be a site to help us how to fight this arrogance and corruption. It should help help us organize letter writing campaign to our representatives to enact new laws. It should try to do what Florida is doing which is registering HOAs. What I see here from the author of this article and many others is to discourage such activities and instead accept the total malarkey that HOAs are a necessary evil.No, I don't beleive evils are ever necessary. Evil should be rooted out and get rid of. They hope by saying this long enough people will believe it , status quo is preserved and people will leave HOAs alone.
JonD1


Posts:0


07/29/2013 11:00 AM  
Posted By AminB on 07/29/2013 8:32 AM
This was an article so full of scare tactics. The title is definitely misleading. When somebody looks at the title, the tendency is to be discouraged and forget about disbanding their (very possibly corrupt HOA with its mostly arrogant and answerable to no one Board of directors). The more you read, with its tone of "see how bad it could get if you disband them" , you get a feeling that the author is trying to discourage them to disband their HOAs not to teach them how to as the title suggests.I was hoping this website to be a site to help us how to fight this arrogance and corruption. It should help help us organize letter writing campaign to our representatives to enact new laws. It should try to do what Florida is doing which is registering HOAs. What I see here from the author of this article and many others is to discourage such activities and instead accept the total malarkey that HOAs are a necessary evil.No, I don't beleive evils are ever necessary. Evil should be rooted out and get rid of. They hope by saying this long enough people will believe it , status quo is preserved and people will leave HOAs alone.




Amin:

Please take the time to scroll up to the top of this page and read the header which welcomes you to HOAtalk.com Read what follows carefully.

That would seem to suggest for most people what the intended purpose of this site would be. Not rooting out "EVIL" as you like to label HOAs.

Sorry, but there has to be another site for folks like you who seek to rid the entire Earth of HOAs. Good Luck...



TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17830


07/29/2013 3:52 PM  
Amin,

I do understand what you are saying.

As Jon was pointing out, this site isn't pro or con Associations. It certainly may seem more pro than con because of the advice offered, and I understand that. What we try to do is provide advice and opinions to better run their Associations.

Often, members will ask advice on their specific issue. I believe that we have been very honest about what can and can not be done (at least seen from the posters perspective) or what options are available. The poster may not always like the advice (or perhaps just the way the advice was presented).

In your other thread I've offered the realistic options as I see them to you. You may or may not have liked the advice but I hope it helped.

As for organizing, that is typically what I try to promote. Often, I encourage organizing within your Association to toss the bums who are causing the issues out of office. Since I don't know the issues within your Association as well as you do, you are the best one to know how to organize and gather support in your Association. I think a letter writing campaign is great. That's basically how I gathered support within my Association and made changes.

If someone wants to take the letter writing campaign to a State or National level, go for it. There are certainly enough varied discussions within this forum that, if someone took the time, could put together some great proposed laws. Of course, if you don't want to try the State or National level, those same topics should provide some great options for amendments to your governing documents (I used them when I wrote our grandfather clause to protect members).

I am sorry that this site wasn't what you expected. It wasn't what I expected when I first started posting here. I went through the same thing others go through - tough questions about various issues and some tough love from various members. Once I realized what they were doing (gathering background in order to provide better advice and explaining that the same rules that seem to work against me could work for me) I was glad I found the site and for the advice I received. I stayed hoping I could help others the same way I was helped.

Of course, everyone is free to use all, some or none of the advice offered.

JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11638


07/29/2013 4:30 PM  
Tim said:

Once I realized what they were doing (gathering background in order to provide better advice and explaining that the same rules that seem to work against me could work for me) I was glad I found the site and for the advice I received. I stayed hoping I could help others the same way I was helped.

Well said.
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


07/30/2013 5:27 AM  
Amin I assure you the article is just what it states, a step by step direction on what I understand must happen to disband the HOA. It was not meant to encourage or discourage anyone but present the hurdles that must be overcome.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
AminB


Posts:0


07/30/2013 8:28 AM  
Thank you for your response. I have never said to root the entire earth of HOAs. What I am suggesting is that HOAs need to be regulated. They have to be answerable to some state agency. To leave them to their own devices will only invite problems like not liking the color of your lawn chair, or not liking the color of the paint you put on the outside walls or not allowing the American flag on 4th of July ,because it might not conform to what they believe is the color that should match, etc. On top of that they can fine you because you don't do the idiotic things they conjure up and add on attorney fees , put a lien on your house , and heaven forbid foreclose on your house. Don't you think this much power in the hands of ordinary people can get to their heads and abuse it? Don't you think that these ordinary people should not have the extreme power of foreclosing on your house just because you don't agree with them?
Lets talk about the money they handle each year which in our case comes to about $1M . When we have questions like trying to get external audit (all to be paid by me), they attorney up and make me use the only remaining option which is filing a lawsuit, go through discovery and then after getting the documents then give it to my accountant to see if they did anything wrong. Should this be the only option available to me? For sure there is no state agency that I can file a grievance. Having a state agency would also alleviate the problem of fraud which we see everyday and every week by board members, presidents , property managers and other people with vested interest like contractors. Money under the table given to board members to approve contracts is a fact of life. It needs to be rooted out. It costs honest homeowners money at the expense of making others get ill-gotten money. It is corruption any way you look at it. To say these things don't happen, is either being naive or being part of it and not wanting the lucrative business of HOAs to go away.
AminB


Posts:0


07/30/2013 8:39 AM  
Thank you for your advice. This site has offered me some good advice too. it hasn't been all to dissuade me from going further. The problem however remains. There is no solution for me but to file a lawsuit to go through discovery and get the documents and give it to my accountants. If the board and property manager have stolen money which is what I believe happened, cannot be shamed into going to prison with just letter writing campaign. The solution I am seeking is for right now. There should have been a state agency to look at my case and force the association to release all documents with the exception of the names of people who are behind in their maintenance. i still haven't heard one good argument as to why I cannot get the amount of uncollected mainetenance fees. How about getting:

Financial Statements with Actual vs. Budget Comparison for 2009 and 2010

Reports by auditors who reviewed the Financial Statements for 2009 and 2010

Anybody know why this is privileged information and shareholders should not get that?
AminB


Posts:0


07/30/2013 9:37 AM  
I hardly think " your neighbors can take you to court" or "sell your pools" or " it could take a decade or two to disband HOAs" words of helping or assurances.
BrianB
(California)

Posts:2820


07/30/2013 12:19 PM  
Neither pro nor con on the whole HOA thing, but...

HOA's are regulated, by their owners.

Having organizations governed/regulated by state law/agencies isn't always a solution either. Last time I checked, banking, insurance, healthcare, utilities, investment and oil/gas drilling were all regulated by the state/feds.

There's no better solution, in my mind, than an informed collective of people.
AminB


Posts:0


07/30/2013 3:38 PM  
These are just words that have no meaning when somebody is getting fines or worse being foreclosed on because the board president thought the color on his door doesn't match.
These words will be of no help at all when homeowners have complaints and want to inspect the books and won't be allowed to.
BTW as far as I know HOAs are regulated by no one. The owners own a small share and if they run afoul a board member have virtually no protection at all.
JonD1


Posts:0


07/30/2013 4:12 PM  
Amin:

Just what do you think the chances are that your suggested changes will ever be put in place?

Do you actually think your state or any state has the ability to now take over control of enforcing HOA guidelines.

My guess not going to happen anytime soon.

Myself I have doubts any state could provide this sort of supervision.

So you are at this point left with working through the system now in place or working to pass new laws at the state level.

I had what you would consider a bad Board. I worked with the tools I had to see they were removed. I saw that as a possibility rather than some pipe dream that MIGHT happen in my next lifetime.

Do you actaully have proof the Board misused funds? Do you have any actual proof they used their positions to profit themsleves? If so then work to have them removed.

Is the system equal and fair as it stands now in most cases? Probably not. Neither is life.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


07/30/2013 8:13 PM  
Posted By AminB on 07/30/2013 9:37 AM
I hardly think " your neighbors can take you to court" or "sell your pools" or " it could take a decade or two to disband HOAs" words of helping or assurances.



Amin, the reason HOA's for the most part exist is because the city/county/township doesn't have the funds to maintain new infrastructure. Therefor before they allow a developer to build, they must have a mechanism in place to deal with it, aka a HOA. When you are a member of a HOA you own a percentage of the common areas but if the HOA were to be dissolved then someone has to maintain these areas. Now if the reason for the HOA is maintain the common areas and to do so with HOA funds, how fast do think the people that required the HOA so they wouldn't have to pay for the common areas are going to be to accept them? And if they do, since they couldn't afford them in the first place, they are most likely to set up a "Special Taxing District" to pay for it.

In addition to the mundane common elements a HOA would need to get rid of, they would also need to dispose of any HOA owned amenities like a pool. Someone has to maintain them and if the city takes it over, then IMO they would have to open it to any city resident.

Right now living in an HOA you have the right to take your neighbor to court to enforce deed restrictions if the Board fails to do so. I was simply reminding people that even if they disband the HOA the deed restrictions remain and are enforceable through litigation unless you also remove the deed restrictions when you disband.

I did fail to mention private roads, if they exist, someone will need to maintain them.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
AminB


Posts:0


07/31/2013 6:53 AM  
I was hoping that you had read my posts under "External Audit" before you answered this. There are plenty of things that arouse my suspicions which I have outline under that heading which you can read and I will not repeat them here. When I tried to see what is going on by auditing the books, they used their attorney (which is paid by us) to close their books for inspection.

Are you suggesting to just work to remove them so another group get elected, follow human nature and get corrupted again? This can happen over and over again. The problem is the HOA structure myself and something needs to be done like a state agency to hear the grievances of the homeowners and make sure people are held accountable and answer to legitimate calls .

FYI, Florida has just created an agency to register these HOAs. So changes are already underway. Sorry to burst your bubble.
AminB


Posts:0


07/31/2013 6:58 AM  
What people get from reading your artricle is how to maintain your HOAs because the altyernatives are just horrible and out of the power of an ordinary person. I am not against HOAs , but I am against the unchecked power they have. They should be held accountable to some state agency and out of being held accountable don't abuse their powers. Right now I can't inspect thebooks , just because I beileive they have done something wrong and they don't want me to see them.

Do you see anything wrong with having a state agency to go to and ask them to judge the situation?
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


07/31/2013 7:16 AM  
Posted By AminB on 07/31/2013 6:58 AM
Do you see anything wrong with having a state agency to go to and ask them to judge the situation?



Well I for one don't want to waste either my tax or assessment dollars on funding such an agency. Before you believe that regulatory agencies are the be all end all, I would like to point out that credible people reported Maddoff to the SEC ( a regulatory agency) to no avail.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11638


07/31/2013 7:20 AM  
Allow politicians to set up controls and then the controls be administered by government bureaucrats is a real mistake.


SharonH9


Posts:0


07/31/2013 7:48 AM  
Posted By AminB on 07/31/2013 6:58 AM

Do you see anything wrong with having a state agency to go to and ask them to judge the situation?




I see nothing wrong with it at all. Almost every aspect of our lives has some element of governmental oversight. It begins with the food we eat, the roads we drive on, the cars we drive, the clothes we wear, the medicine we take, and yes the houses and neighborhoods we live in. And of course the list goes on and on and on. If it brings some accountability and transparency to the HOA world then it is worth the expense to have this oversight. There is so much wasteful spending in government today but IMO this would be a worthwhile expenditure. There seems to be a need for it as we can see by the number of posters who have issues with their HOAs.

Hang in there Amin. If inspection of the records was offered to you but you feel uncomfortable doing this by yourself, can you bring along some neighbors. I would never agree to meet with the board or property manager without others present. My husband and I met with only 2 board members. You need others to attend with you so you have witnesses to verify what took place and what was said. Even if it is just to examine the records and make copies.
MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


08/02/2013 12:58 PM  
Sharon,

You hit it right on the head!

What are these people so afraid of that they want to do their business in the dark?

It would be a BARGAIN if homeowners each paid $100/year to have an independant state agency provide oversight,

and more important be equiped to ENFORCE the law in these places.

It would be worth every penny just to watch!
AminB


Posts:0


08/02/2013 3:14 PM  
There are plenty of agencies that I don't like to see exist too but they do. I believe most people are fed up with their HOA and want it to be answerable to some sort of agencies that would oversee them. The problem is that their lobby is so strong that it will never come to a vote, or in Texas some builders would contribute to lobbyists to defeat any such measures and to defeat any representative that would bring measures that would be seen as pro-homeowner rights.

This answer by you alone confirms , what I believed originally your article meant which is "don't disband the HOAs,they are necessary evils"
AminB


Posts:0


08/02/2013 3:25 PM  
They already doing it by setting up HOAs. HOAs are a mistake the way they are setup. They have they own little bureaucrats which become worse by time and become little dictators on top of that.
AminB


Posts:0


08/02/2013 3:28 PM  
Exactly. HOAs breed little dictators who answer to no one. A government oversight is needed to reign in on these little dictators so that they don't fine and ultimately foreclose on you because they think your outside paint doesn not conform to the neighborhood.
AminB


Posts:0


08/02/2013 3:30 PM  
The # of issues will go higher and higher as with human nature unchecked , these little dictators can be cocky, abusive and in many cases with the existence of unchecked money, can become common thieves.
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


08/02/2013 3:57 PM  
Posted By AminB on 08/02/2013 3:25 PM
They already doing it by setting up HOAs. HOAs are a mistake the way they are setup. They have they own little bureaucrats which become worse by time and become little dictators on top of that.



Posted By AminB on 08/02/2013 3:28 PM
Exactly. HOAs breed little dictators who answer to no one. A government oversight is needed to reign in on these little dictators so that they don't fine and ultimately foreclose on you because they think your outside paint doesn not conform to the neighborhood.



Posted By AminB on 08/02/2013 3:30 PM
The # of issues will go higher and higher as with human nature unchecked , these little dictators can be cocky, abusive and in many cases with the existence of unchecked money, can become common thieves.



Amid have you ever been to the DMV? You have just described the typical government employee.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


08/02/2013 5:06 PM  
HOAs ALWAYS destroy whatever spirit of community might otherwise exist.

Every idiotic letter, fine or "special assesment" has a cumulative and corrosive effect on community.

That is why you will NEVER see 90% of the community at any meeting......we can't stand to be in the same room

as the buffoons who think they have the right to bother us in our own homes!
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


08/02/2013 5:28 PM  
Mike once again you are long on rhetoric, short on substance.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


08/02/2013 6:19 PM  
Folks, even on this "safe haven" for HOA pubas.....

Are expressing a profound disgust by the little Soviet Unions they find ourselves living in.

But a few guys who have manipulatied their way onto the board, just love their power so much....they could care less if a

few thousand elderly or otherwise vulnerable people lose everything to these tin pot tyrannys...

Fix it?

Lose our pathetic power?

OH NO!!!

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


08/02/2013 7:20 PM  
Mike we regularly guide posters who are having problems with their HOA on how to make changes but a big part of that is becoming involved. You on the other hand want to stand on the sidelines an whine about how unfair EVERY SINGLE HOA in existence is and how all the really cool kids don't try, just whine.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
PenneyM
(Washington)

Posts:41


08/02/2013 9:27 PM  

Our HoA is experiencing the push to disband. We once had trash service, security patrols, a security gate, an Olympic size swimming pool, and community lake access. We have none of those amenities left. Not a single one. Why? Because the people living here did not want to pay for them. Dues never kept up with the rate of inflation and over a 20 year period, each of those above amenities slowly vanished because the people voted to not fund them.

And now people are singing this same song. "Why do we even have an HoA? We get nothing for our money. Let's disband".

Now we are down to just funding our private roads and these people are so irrational, they do not even want to pay for the upkeep of the roads. They are under this mass delusion that the county will accept a road dedication from our HoA. The county has stated numerous times they will not accept our roads in their current poor state of repair. But people just keep on pushing this. They are not thinking.

In my opinion, at least in our case, this is not a fault of the HoA at all. It is a fault of the irrational thinking of a large segment of people living here. They expect the world and simply do not want to pay for any of it.

So I don't put much stock in this evil HoA mantra. I see the fault laying squarely on the people living within its jurisdiction.







PenneyM
(Washington)

Posts:41


08/02/2013 9:34 PM  
I will even go one step further. The closest town to our HoA has far stricter residential municipal codes than our HoA CCRs.

For those bemoaning and ballyhooing HoAs and their "alleged" tyrannical ways, where is the same outcry against municipalities that have more control over the lives of the people in their jurisdiction?

Food for thought...
JonD1


Posts:0


08/03/2013 6:53 AM  
Posted By PenneyM on 08/02/2013 9:27 PM

Our HoA is experiencing the push to disband. We once had trash service, security patrols, a security gate, an Olympic size swimming pool, and community lake access. We have none of those amenities left. Not a single one. Why? Because the people living here did not want to pay for them. Dues never kept up with the rate of inflation and over a 20 year period, each of those above amenities slowly vanished because the people voted to not fund them.

And now people are singing this same song. "Why do we even have an HoA? We get nothing for our money. Let's disband".

Now we are down to just funding our private roads and these people are so irrational, they do not even want to pay for the upkeep of the roads. They are under this mass delusion that the county will accept a road dedication from our HoA. The county has stated numerous times they will not accept our roads in their current poor state of repair. But people just keep on pushing this. They are not thinking.

In my opinion, at least in our case, this is not a fault of the HoA at all. It is a fault of the irrational thinking of a large segment of people living here. They expect the world and simply do not want to pay for any of it.

So I don't put much stock in this evil HoA mantra. I see the fault laying squarely on the people living within its jurisdiction.


Wow......Someone else who seems to understand where at least so of the fault lies when you have HOA issues.

Inflation???? What's that???? If it means MY portion of the costs go up I don't like it.

Why does in become more expensive each year to run an HOA or any other property? Gee lets think about that?

There is a BIG difference between NOT thinking and not having the ability to think. Lets find the EASY way out of this. Lets cut amenities, lets cut services, lets cause our property values to decline but look at ALL the money we saved.

Yes, the roads are private but the county will take them over and the additional costs. The county won't take on this expense BUT the county will take our roads over and we can then disband the HOA. HELLO.................................


Across the road from us sits a community with more than 350 units on my guess close to 100 acres. Total value my guess 10's of millions. Recently, they asked for the name of our tree service. After not doing any such work for years! His price to address the most serious issues around $5,000. The Board President's response "we can't afford that much!" Perhaps those issues will go away on their own???? More important to keep the CCs as low as possible.
GOOD thinking!!!!!!!!

Common sense or ANY sense at all is lacking in many folks today. Including those living in HOAs. So when those who lack the ability to think things through get to lead the pack be prepared for the consequences.

The grass is always greener on the other side till you get there.........


Good luck Penny sounds to me like the inmates are running the asylum.












JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11638


08/03/2013 7:29 AM  
Penney

Assuming the county would take over your roads, would you go along with disbanding the HOA? If not, why not?

Thanks
PenneyM
(Washington)

Posts:41


08/03/2013 10:19 AM  
No I would not be in favor. The county is not going to offer any better road service. The now defunct HoA adjacent to ours was county owned roads from its inception and the roads are in just as bad of shape if not worse than ours.

Also our HoA can maintain the roads at a fraction of the costs of what the county can and there are no guarantees we would not be separately assessed after dedication of our roads to the county.

People here simply do not want to pay for anything. They are thinking they are going to dodge the bullet of having to pay for eventual road resurfacing by forcing the HoA to go belly-up and the county coming in to save our collective butts at no cost.
PenneyM
(Washington)

Posts:41


08/03/2013 12:41 PM  
This is a little more info on what we are facing. Here is a preliminary list of road upgrades and other legal hurdles the County is requiring BEFORE even considering a road dedication:

1) All our plats would have to be amended. The legal costs of which will be born by our HoA.
2) An engineer would have to be contracted by our HoA to design a plan for the project to meet current County requirements.
3) Roads have to be in near "new" condition. A complete road resurfacing of 2" asphalt overlay for our 4 miles of roads as well as new sections completely redone that are beyond repair.
4) Roads would need to be widened to meet county standards for our zoning classification.
5) Creation of sidewalks. Again a zoning requirement.
6) 100% of all owners voluntarily deeding over the property from their road frontage to the road center-line converting the current private easement to public right of way easement. SHOW STOPPER right there as many owners state they will NOT voluntarily do this. Only out I can see is the County invoking eminent domain PRIOR to accepting the dedication...
7) Construction of stormwater facilities for rain water runoff.

People are outright IGNORING these requirements. They are under the impression that if the HoA goes bellyup, the county will BE FORCED to take over the roads. That is NOT going to happen. The county has no obligation to do so. This is straight from several law firms representing our HoA over a 15 year period as well as several County officials.

All this by the disband crowd wanting to avoid the cost of eventual road resurfacing. They instead want to add on top of the road resurfacing all the legal costs, the engineering costs, as well as the material and labor costs to upgrade the roads to county standards. These are some of the most irrational group of people I have ever met.

All this to avoid the current paltry $17 a month in dues.

Number 7 is especially problematic as there is simply no land available for stormwater facilities to be constructed. The HoA will not only bear the costs to construct these stormwater facilities but numerous people will have to voluntarily sell their homes to the HoA. Our HoA will also bear the the cost to raze these homes to the ground in order for the stormwater facilities to be built. Our HoA cannot force anyone to sell. Only possible out is for the county to again invoke eminent domain prior to the dedication.

But I am evil incarnate for simply stating facts. I am the spawn of the devil. According to many of the anti HoA crowd, people like me are tyrants hell bent on the oppression and domination of the people of our community.
SharonH9


Posts:0


08/03/2013 5:20 PM  
Developments and neighborhoods with common elements to maintain need some entity to manage them but those without any when the HOA's purpose is to set "community standards" as one poster stated then I don't see their necessity. I'm with Matthew on this I don't want others telling me how to manage my own property and I absolutely abhor fining people for infractions of the community rules. Thankfully my neighborhood does not have those types of rules and even though expired our CC&R's were not very restrictive. I have lived in neighborhoods with no HOA rules most of my life. My neighborhood was well kept. The neighbors kept their properties looking nice for the most part. There has to be some tolerance for each other's differences. Choose your battles. Cosmetics is not one I care to stress about.
PenneyM
(Washington)

Posts:41


08/04/2013 5:09 PM  
Posted By SharonH9 on 08/03/2013 5:20 PM
Developments and neighborhoods with common elements to maintain need some entity to manage them but those without any when the HOA's purpose is to set "community standards" as one poster stated then I don't see their necessity. I'm with Matthew on this I don't want others telling me how to manage my own property and I absolutely abhor fining people for infractions of the community rules. Thankfully my neighborhood does not have those types of rules and even though expired our CC&R's were not very restrictive. I have lived in neighborhoods with no HOA rules most of my life. My neighborhood was well kept. The neighbors kept their properties looking nice for the most part. There has to be some tolerance for each other's differences. Choose your battles. Cosmetics is not one I care to stress about.




Everyone in an HoA volunteered to be governed when they bought into a community with one. As long as the rules are clearly defined and equitably enforced, the anti-HoA crowd really doesn't have anyone to blame but themselves. I personally do NOT want someone measuring my grass or picking the color of my house. That is why I did not buy into an HoA that had such restrictions. However some people enjoy that level of control. I personally don't. We are all free to choose where we wish to live. Read your CCRs BEFORE buying so you know what you are getting into.

Where the anti-HoA crowd does have a complaint is when a Board just starts making things up. Here is an example. I had a fellow Board member with a manicured lawn wanting us to enforce his standards of lawn care on everyone. Our HoA is a mountain community. Per the CCRs, no one can disturb the natural vegetation except for driveways and walkways. This guy on the Board quit in disgust when we said NO we are not going to enforce people to mow their lawns and that he was in VIOLATION of our covenants by having a manicured lawn.

Our biggest issue right now is people leaving piles of trash in their yard which draws all manner of critters into our community including bears. Right now dealing with one family with 6 kids including a few toddlers and they simply refuse to heed our warning letters. Last thing we need is a kid mauled by a bear because the parents are too daft to cleanup their property. Time for a fine. No other way to get some people's attention.
SharonH9


Posts:0


08/04/2013 7:20 PM  

Everyone in an HoA volunteered to be governed when they bought into a community with one. As long as the rules are clearly defined and equitably enforced, the anti-HoA crowd really doesn't have anyone to blame but themselves. I personally do NOT want someone measuring my grass or picking the color of my house. That is why I did not buy into an HoA that had such restrictions. However some people enjoy that level of control. I personally don't. We are all free to choose where we wish to live. Read your CCRs BEFORE buying so you know what you are getting into.

Where the anti-HoA crowd does have a complaint is when a Board just starts making things up. Here is an example. I had a fellow Board member with a manicured lawn wanting us to enforce his standards of lawn care on everyone. Our HoA is a mountain community. Per the CCRs, no one can disturb the natural vegetation except for driveways and walkways. This guy on the Board quit in disgust when we said NO we are not going to enforce people to mow their lawns and that he was in VIOLATION of our covenants by having a manicured lawn.

Our biggest issue right now is people leaving piles of trash in their yard which draws all manner of critters into our community including bears. Right now dealing with one family with 6 kids including a few toddlers and they simply refuse to heed our warning letters. Last thing we need is a kid mauled by a bear because the parents are too daft to cleanup their property. Time for a fine. No other way to get some people's attention.



Are all neighborhoods in your area controlled by an HOA that fine owners for the trash issues. Or is this something that can be controlled by your county or local government to fine. The trash is problematic because it is a safety issue. I just don't like neighbors being able to fine each other. My personal belief is that fines belong with some governmental authority. Like I said before I lived in neighborhoods most of my life without an HOA. A person could call the county sheriff or local police if there was a safety issue. Say my neighbor's teen-age son drives too fast through the neighborhood and I am concerned about the safety of the residence in the neighborhood. I would call the local authorities to file a complaint if a direct conversation with the homeowner had no results.

BTW some people can buy homes where they are unaware of an HOA in the neighborhood. There have been a few posts regarding that issue.
PenneyM
(Washington)

Posts:41


08/04/2013 11:24 PM  
An HoA is a private governing authority. What difference does it make whether the fines are from a public or private entity.

Far too many people put faith in "government" agencies that can often be more corrupt and hard to deal with than any HoA. I've seen city governments not only lien people's property but actually throw people in jail for failing to cut their grass.

When is the last time you heard of an HoA jailing someone?


As for people not knowing there was an HoA. I don't put much stock in that either. We have several new buyers trying that tact now. They simply are not reading their closing docs or feigning ignorance.
SharonH9


Posts:0


08/05/2013 4:54 AM  
Posted By PenneyM on 08/04/2013 11:24 PM
An HoA is a private governing authority. What difference does it make whether the fines are from a public or private entity.

Far too many people put faith in "government" agencies that can often be more corrupt and hard to deal with than any HoA. I've seen city governments not only lien people's property but actually throw people in jail for failing to cut their grass.

When is the last time you heard of an HoA jailing someone?


As for people not knowing there was an HoA. I don't put much stock in that either. We have several new buyers trying that tact now. They simply are not reading their closing docs or feigning ignorance.




It can and does happen because the HOA failed to do what they needed to get the docs recorded. If the docs aren't properly recorded the homeowner may not know an HOA exists. Please open up your mind to the possibility that this happens. Maybe not often but it happens. You say you have several new buyers trying that tact now. Did you look into this? Do you know for a fact that these buyers were given these docs at closing?

Well, your opinions are based on your experiences and my opinions are based on my experiences. I am opposed to neighbors being able to fine each other. I think fining people belongs with the authorities. I doubt I will change my mind on that issue.
PenneyM
(Washington)

Posts:41


08/05/2013 4:41 PM  
Yes everyone is given a copy of CCRs at closing according to the title companies we deal with. Also CCRs for our HoA have were recording with the county decades ago. Every single property transfer we have escrow asking us to fill out an HoA demand for current year's due rate. It's all BS on these buyers part. They are either liars and feigning ignorance or they are too lazy to read all their closing docs and fully research the property before buying.

I am an unpaid volunteer. I am not a babysitter. These people are adults and have no one to blame but themselves. But most I've run across are just playing games.

Recent example is a Canadian with 10+ properties in the surrounding area that recently bought into our HoA claiming the same thing. Claims he never knew there was an HoA. Then as he is berating me on the phone he lets slip info about the HoA's history. Liars usually sink themselves.
SharonH9


Posts:0


08/05/2013 5:02 PM  
Posted By PenneyM on 08/05/2013 4:41 PM
Yes everyone is given a copy of CCRs at closing according to the title companies we deal with. Also CCRs for our HoA have were recording with the county decades ago. Every single property transfer we have escrow asking us to fill out an HoA demand for current year's due rate. It's all BS on these buyers part. They are either liars and feigning ignorance or they are too lazy to read all their closing docs and fully research the property before buying.

I am an unpaid volunteer. I am not a babysitter. These people are adults and have no one to blame but themselves. But most I've run across are just playing games.

Recent example is a Canadian with 10+ properties in the surrounding area that recently bought into our HoA claiming the same thing. Claims he never knew there was an HoA. Then as he is berating me on the phone he lets slip info about the HoA's history. Liars usually sink themselves.




Okay Penney. I see your point. In my situation, the CC&R's expired because Iowa has a 21 year time limit to renew. The CC&R's were given to us by our real estate agent but they only contained the architectural restrictions which are not now enforceable. We did not know there was a set of bylaws and rules because of this expiration. Anyway that is where I am coming from. So you see we have had different experiences that influence our opinions.
AminB


Posts:0


08/10/2013 8:00 AM  
Posted By GlenL on 08/02/2013 3:57 PM
Posted By AminB on 08/02/2013 3:25 PM
They already doing it by setting up HOAs. HOAs are a mistake the way they are setup. They have they own little bureaucrats which become worse by time and become little dictators on top of that.



Posted By AminB on 08/02/2013 3:28 PM
Exactly. HOAs breed little dictators who answer to no one. A government oversight is needed to reign in on these little dictators so that they don't fine and ultimately foreclose on you because they think your outside paint doesn not conform to the neighborhood.



Posted By AminB on 08/02/2013 3:30 PM
The # of issues will go higher and higher as with human nature unchecked , these little dictators can be cocky, abusive and in many cases with the existence of unchecked money, can become common thieves.



Amid have you ever been to the DMV? You have just described the typical government employee.




I missed this posting. Can't let what I call dissuasion get away without any repsonse. BTW you spelled the name wrong.
Are you comparing HOA with DMV and basically confirm what I have been writing about your post? Yes in my opinion your post is trying in disguise to get around our HOA and make sure we don't lose this "valuable" thing.HOA board membership is not a government employment. The difference between HOAs and DMV is that , with DMV is a government entity and we can at least file a complaint which could actually be effective. HOA does not answer to anybody . It has people like you who interpret laws anyway they like, impose fines and then the biggest thing of all, foreclose on your property and take it away if you don't pay those fines. Worst they can doctor documents, submit phony insurance claims . When somebody wants to find out what the heck happened , they have guys like you who say, don't lose your valuable HOA, you might have to sell your pool by yourself or other absurd suggestions. With DMV you might get a long line and thats it. I don't even remember the last time I was in line since mine is renewed automatically. In fact they operate pretty efficiently. To compare these two is as ridiculous comparison as you can get.
PenneyM
(Washington)

Posts:41


08/10/2013 12:44 PM  
Amin,

Every criticism you levy against HoAs I have seen government entities engage in and more. As I mentioned previously, I have even seen municipalities fine and THROW PEOPLE IN JAIL for failing to maintain their lawn to city codes.

When was the last time you heard of an HoA throwing someone in jail?

HoAs can take your property. True. But so can governments! HoAs have a stick. Governments can literally stick a gun to your head and take not only your property, but your liberty as well. Be careful what you ask for.

Governments and HoAs are neither good nor bad. It is the people that run them.
AminB


Posts:0


08/11/2013 7:55 AM  
Posted By PenneyM on 08/10/2013 12:44 PM
Amin,

Every criticism you levy against HoAs I have seen government entities engage in and more. As I mentioned previously, I have even seen municipalities fine and THROW PEOPLE IN JAIL for failing to maintain their lawn to city codes.

When was the last time you heard of an HoA throwing someone in jail?

HoAs can take your property. True. But so can governments! HoAs have a stick. Governments can literally stick a gun to your head and take not only your property, but your liberty as well. Be careful what you ask for.

Governments and HoAs are neither good nor bad. It is the people that run them.



I am not talking about the government or some other municipality. I am talking about a place where people make probably their biggest investments of their lives. That is when a group of people get elected , become little dictators at best or common thieves at worst. I am against the way HOAs are setup. They are accountable to no one. If somebody on the board doesn't like something about your house, they will fine you and if you don't do what they say or if you don't pay the fine which has some attorney's fees in it , they can foreclose on you. Just go to county foreclosures every month and see how hundreds of people lose their property on many trivial issues every month. Besides taking your house, because they are not accountable to anybody, they can get kickbacks from their favorite contractors, submit phony insurance claims, doctor documents and in short become your average everyday white collar criminal. So I should be thankful for this? i don't think so. What you are writing also confirms what I suspected all along with the intent of the original poster of this article. It is to say "be careful not to lose your valuable HOA or this is what can happen to you". You are in line with that. So to expose your intent further I am asking you this question:



Do you see any reason why I am not allowed to view the following documents from my HOA?

Financial Statements with Actual vs. Budget Comparison for 2009 and 2010

Reports by auditors who reviewed the Financial Statements for 2009 and 2010




You see, my HOA is not letting me see those. the only way to get it is to file a lawsuit, because nobody is watching them and they know it.



MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10576


08/11/2013 8:22 AM  
They do NOT foreclose on people for fines. That is an urban legend and NOT reality. UNPAID dues are the reason for foreclosures. That is the LEGAL way to foreclose. Liens are also for unpaid dues or refusal to fix a violation the HOA had to pay to fix.

People who tend to break the rules tend to also stop paying their dues. Hence people tend to correlate that fines are the reason for the lien or foreclosure. The REALITY is that their "Protesting" by not paying dues is what gets them in hot water. No one admits they are are not paying their dues, but ALWAYS make it into the thing they are angry about. foreclosures for the record and legal one...STOP as soon as the money owed is paid. One does not have to be foreclosed on but do it to themselves.

If someone owes me money by golly going to make sure I have legal routes to collct. So why can't a HOA? That is a group of people who have investment in their homes that are owed. Why not force people to pay their fair share or get out? A HOA is ONLY funded by its members for its members. Is it fair not all the members pay their fair share> Not wanting to support a dead beat or one that violates the rules. That is it.

And shut up already about those forms...You go to your HOA and NOT here to get them...DONE!!!

Former HOA President
JonD1


Posts:0


08/11/2013 8:42 AM  
Understanding Amin's personality and his willingness to repeat over and over and over again the reports he now demands could you not at least consider where the problem lies in this situation?

Coming to this site and asking strangers who have no role in this matter why I can't get the financial reports I want serves NO purpose. Over than whining.

And then of course Amin goes on to accuse all HOAs of being fraud filled, money making operations for all those involved. Yeah that sounds about right.

Here's a suggestion if you have a problem in YOUR HOA don't bother crying on sites like this while doing little else. It accomplishes ZERO.

And if you truly beleive that all HOAs are corrupt and stealing from you then sell and move o a property without one.

I nor anyone else posting here has the information you seem to think you have the right to demand. We cannot satisfy your requests. Time for a new plan that might get you what you want or at least setle this matter for you and your HOA.

Your belief some higher power or authority will be arriving to assis you from government or God is a delusion.

IF the HOA is acting badly time to put your big boy pants on and do what needs to be done. Posting on the internet will get you nowhere.

AminB


Posts:0


08/11/2013 8:55 AM  
Posted By JonD1 on 08/11/2013 8:42 AM
Understanding Amin's personality and his willingness to repeat over and over and over again the reports he now demands could you not at least consider where the problem lies in this situation?

Coming to this site and asking strangers who have no role in this matter why I can't get the financial reports I want serves NO purpose. Over than whining.

And then of course Amin goes on to accuse all HOAs of being fraud filled, money making operations for all those involved. Yeah that sounds about right.

Here's a suggestion if you have a problem in YOUR HOA don't bother crying on sites like this while doing little else. It accomplishes ZERO.

And if you truly beleive that all HOAs are corrupt and stealing from you then sell and move o a property without one.

I nor anyone else posting here has the information you seem to think you have the right to demand. We cannot satisfy your requests. Time for a new plan that might get you what you want or at least setle this matter for you and your HOA.

Your belief some higher power or authority will be arriving to assis you from government or God is a delusion.

IF the HOA is acting badly time to put your big boy pants on and do what needs to be done. Posting on the internet will get you nowhere.






You see HOAs are good for people like you. They do work or you, don't they. You guys have nobody to look over you, can doctor documents, submit phony insurance claims and get kickbacks from contractors. Why somebody like me mess this little thing that you guys got on the back of the honest homeowners with accounting to no one? Why would you guys let somebody look at financial statements where there are bones buried? Right? I never said HOAs are all bad, just that you guys should be accountable to someone in the State of Texas. How about getting accounting instead of moving from a place that i liked and bought. You just want charlatans taking over? If you don't like what you read, then YOu skip my postings. Don't tell me where and what to post.

Why don't you give me a simple answer to this direct question?


Do you see any reason why I am not allowed to view the following documents from my HOA?

Financial Statements with Actual vs. Budget Comparison for 2009 and 2010

Reports by auditors who reviewed the Financial Statements for 2009 and 2010


This is what I am asking. Ofcourse I don't expect a good answer since I pay for those documents to be created in the first place, it is my money and I have a right to see them.





AminB


Posts:0


08/11/2013 9:02 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/11/2013 8:22 AM
They do NOT foreclose on people for fines. That is an urban legend and NOT reality. UNPAID dues are the reason for foreclosures. That is the LEGAL way to foreclose. Liens are also for unpaid dues or refusal to fix a violation the HOA had to pay to fix.

People who tend to break the rules tend to also stop paying their dues. Hence people tend to correlate that fines are the reason for the lien or foreclosure. The REALITY is that their "Protesting" by not paying dues is what gets them in hot water. No one admits they are are not paying their dues, but ALWAYS make it into the thing they are angry about. foreclosures for the record and legal one...STOP as soon as the money owed is paid. One does not have to be foreclosed on but do it to themselves.

If someone owes me money by golly going to make sure I have legal routes to collct. So why can't a HOA? That is a group of people who have investment in their homes that are owed. Why not force people to pay their fair share or get out? A HOA is ONLY funded by its members for its members. Is it fair not all the members pay their fair share> Not wanting to support a dead beat or one that violates the rules. That is it.

And shut up already about those forms...You go to your HOA and NOT here to get them...DONE!!!




And how about the reason they owe you is that because they told you they don't like the color of your lawn furniture and you didn't change it and that got them mad and fined you and when you didn't pay that fine they put a lien against you and then started foreclosure proceedings? You haven't even answered my questions and now you want to start fresh in another thread. No can't do. You didn't even answer the question about the con man that you dated because of what the neighbors who already knew about him and warned you about him, but you dated fearing what the neighbors would say?!!!

I thought you probably slept your way to the top and then Mr. Clyde didn't give Bonnie her share and then she left?!!

How about answering my question.

Do you see any reason why I am not allowed to view the following documents from my HOA?

Financial Statements with Actual vs. Budget Comparison for 2009 and 2010

Reports by auditors who reviewed the Financial Statements for 2009 and 2010







TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17830


08/11/2013 9:32 AM  
Amin,

You already have a thread where you discuss your issue of requesting certain information and the Associations reaction to that request (see Subject: External audit). That thread has gone into 5 pages. Before you ask, and for the benefits of others who read this thread, I've provided my answers to your question in that other thread.

Why do you feel the need to take this thread off topic so you can ask the same question you asked in the other thread?
SharonH9


Posts:0


08/11/2013 10:16 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/11/2013 8:22 AM
They do NOT foreclose on people for fines. That is an urban legend and NOT reality. UNPAID dues are the reason for foreclosures. That is the LEGAL way to foreclose. Liens are also for unpaid dues or refusal to fix a violation the HOA had to pay to fix.

People who tend to break the rules tend to also stop paying their dues. Hence people tend to correlate that fines are the reason for the lien or foreclosure. The REALITY is that their "Protesting" by not paying dues is what gets them in hot water. No one admits they are are not paying their dues, but ALWAYS make it into the thing they are angry about. foreclosures for the record and legal one...STOP as soon as the money owed is paid. One does not have to be foreclosed on but do it to themselves.

And shut up already about those forms...You go to your HOA and NOT here to get them...DONE!!!




There are some states that can lien for unpaid fines. I believe BonnieG from Nebraska posted about that. And Allison from Florida posted how in her HOA a homeowner incurring a fine and not paying it is manipulated so that the homeowner's paid assessments go towards the fine then the HoA liens for the remainder of the assessments. It was called a "trick" in the post.

If I enter into a contract with the HOA, and the HOA is not performing its duties, then that is a breech of the contract that may result in nonpayment of the assessments.

And shut up already about suing your HOA is like suing yourself and your neighbors. What's the word for that? Hypocrite.
AminB


Posts:0


08/11/2013 10:32 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 08/11/2013 9:32 AM
Amin,

You already have a thread where you discuss your issue of requesting certain information and the Associations reaction to that request (see Subject: External audit). That thread has gone into 5 pages. Before you ask, and for the benefits of others who read this thread, I've provided my answers to your question in that other thread.

Why do you feel the need to take this thread off topic so you can ask the same question you asked in the other thread?



Thats what is common with board members. They have selective memory. I did not move it to here. I criticized the title which I can now confirm I was right , last week . I can see I was right. The title is misleading and the guy's intent is really " don't lose your valuable HOA or all this would happen to you" . Its a support for HOA in disguise. You gave me your answer yesterday. You said there is no good reason for them to withhold those documents from me and I wrote back, therefore I suspect fraud by my HOA. Now today, in a different thread I see some other people trying to defend the author of this thread both in disguise and openly.

I must have written this about 50 times now. I am here to get experiences from people who have been in similar situations. What I get in response , is nervous HOA defenders who try to make invalid and unsubstantiated points ad trying to protect their unaccountability to probably submit phony insurance claims, doctor documents and get kickbacks from contractors. Then when somebody tries to look in the books, they get people like you telling them how some of it is ok to look and how in some they have been more than accommodating. I've got very little help, probably because there is virtually no help for honest homeowners and mostly people like you or the author of this thread who like to hold on to your positions and keep on being accountable to no one. In short I am here to get the last minute help before resorting to lawsuit to get the documents I am entitled to (looks like I don't have any other options). The byproduct of this is people like you who try to defend the indefensible. I can't let that go by without an answer. Some poor honest homeowner who would read this might think you guys might actually have a point.
PenneyM
(Washington)

Posts:41


08/11/2013 10:33 AM  
Amin,

You know we had a bad Board like that. They were refusing to release Board meeting minutes and financial statements among other things. A group of owners were wanting to go to the state to file complaints, sue the association, etc.

I told them those avenues could likely take months or even years and legal action would cost a lot of our own personal money. After reading our Bylaws, I then convinced the group it would be much easier and quicker to instead pursue the Board's removal. Within 6 months the problem Directors on the Board were removed at a special meeting.

You actually can affect change much easier with an HoA than you could with a government body. You just have to do more than complain about it. You have to take action and get involved.
AminB


Posts:0


08/11/2013 10:54 AM  
Posted By PenneyM on 08/11/2013 10:33 AM
Amin,

You know we had a bad Board like that. They were refusing to release Board meeting minutes and financial statements among other things. A group of owners were wanting to go to the state to file complaints, sue the association, etc.

I told them those avenues could likely take months or even years and legal action would cost a lot of our own personal money. After reading our Bylaws, I then convinced the group it would be much easier and quicker to instead pursue the Board's removal. Within 6 months the problem Directors on the Board were removed at a special meeting.

You actually can affect change much easier with an HoA than you could with a government body. You just have to do more than complain about it. You have to take action and get involved.




I tried that a few years ago. We had a removal meeting and their lawyer set the rule which was more than half of the units instead of more than half the # of actual owners. we have a 45% owner-occupancy. There is another funny thing you should know about our bylaws and how biased it is towards keeping the status quo. Even if we could get them removed, the last person being removed could appoint all new board members (read cronies). So after removal they could still do their business as usual , like submitting phony insurance claims, doctoring documents, getting kickbacks from contractors and more goodies. They make money on the back of honest homeowners who work their butt and earn in a year what the board members can do just by putting a few papers together and have a crooked person on the other end (like insurance adjusters)to ok and himself get some more kickbacks. You see they scratch each other's backs. If some honest homeowner wants to check their books then they lawyer up and have people on this site for example raising all kinds of phony issues.
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17830


08/11/2013 11:52 AM  
Amin,

OK. I'll finally admit what all the regular posters here know. You found out the truth and you are 100% correct. All Board members have selective memories. Everyone on this site knows that you should be provided the documents you asked for regardless of how much effort and expense the Association must put into it (even if the Law doesn't require that much effort). Your Associations attorney misinterpreted your covenants (on purpose) that you needed 45% of the units for a recall vs. 45% of the membership (misinterpreting legal documents is what they were trained to do in law school) Legislatures are bought by the CAI so that corporate laws and HOA/COA laws support corruption within all Associations. There is no further benefit to deny the simple truth that you are right and those who disagree with you are wrong.


Did that change anything in your life?

Does this revelation on our part change how your Board responds to your requests?



JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11638


08/11/2013 5:29 PM  
Posted By TimB4 on 08/11/2013 11:52 AM
Amin,

OK. I'll finally admit what all the regular posters here know. You found out the truth and you are 100% correct. All Board members have selective memories. Everyone on this site knows that you should be provided the documents you asked for regardless of how much effort and expense the Association must put into it (even if the Law doesn't require that much effort). Your Associations attorney misinterpreted your covenants (on purpose) that you needed 45% of the units for a recall vs. 45% of the membership (misinterpreting legal documents is what they were trained to do in law school) Legislatures are bought by the CAI so that corporate laws and HOA/COA laws support corruption within all Associations. There is no further benefit to deny the simple truth that you are right and those who disagree with you are wrong.


Did that change anything in your life?

Does this revelation on our part change how your Board responds to your requests?







I love it.

Does the word facetious mean anything to Amin?




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