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Subject: Cats on Leashes
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Author Messages
RickR1
(California)

Posts:37


12/12/2006 8:37 PM  

What an idiot! My cats have been allowed outside during the day for 15 years. By allowing them to learn their environment they can better learn to adapt.



rick: Thanks for calling me an idiot. I really love how the true intelligence of people come out when they don't agree with an issue. I'm sure people agree with me judging by how . If you have been letting your cat out for 15 years, then tou have been a bad example of a so called 'caring person' for 15 years.


Would you keep your kids on a leash or in the house?


rick; Actually I do. When its late out, it's in the house for them. I't my job as a responsible parent to look after them.

The reason dogs are on leashes and not cats is that dogs can ATTACK people.


rick; The reason why cats aren't on a leash is because they are usually kept inside. Thus they don't usually attack people. I've put in a PDF of a recent story of a cat attack.


Also. Please use this board for HOA information and be thankful for the great help and advice it gives. If you don't, then your just standing under a tree waiting for a cat to come down that never will.



Attachment: 11212372143471.pdf

KittyC
(North Carolina)

Posts:22


12/13/2006 8:52 AM  
My kids and my cats come in at night too. But during the day they "stealth attack" unwanted solicitors, whining neighbors and HOA board members!
RickR1
(California)

Posts:37


12/13/2006 12:46 PM  
Thanks for the apology.

rick
MargieL
(Virginia)

Posts:1


12/26/2006 10:11 PM  
Virginia, I feel for you. I had a outdoor cat for 7 years that was a stray dumpster cat for two years before we took him in. He loved to be outdoors. I moved to a condo with a leash law. It took me about six months to train him to a leash and a lot of patience. It was very boring for me, we went where he wanted or sat in one place a lot, but he was one very sad cat when I made him stay completely indoors. He did adapt finally and everyone loved to see him around on a leash. How much do you love you pet? You can teach an old cat new tricks.
KathleenB
(California)

Posts:7


12/30/2006 5:01 PM  
As an Association Manager, the amount of time I have seen my Boards deal with this type of nonsense never ceases to amaze me. I wish more people were aware before they buy into an HOA that a rule or phrase in the CC&R's will most likely be twisted into something ridiculous by their Board of Directors. This is why Homeowners' Associations are becomming more and regulated by the government. Too many rights have been stepped on. A good Board promotes a feeling of community and picks their battles more wisely. Virginia, these people can be powerful enemies. To avoid a full on war, comply to their request, get on the Board and then change the rule. Keep your enemies close.
DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:664


12/30/2006 5:35 PM  
Too many rights have been stepped on? Like the rights of those who are allergic to cats to not have to deal with them? Or the rights of homeowners who don't want their plants dug up or trees destroyed by cats (I've had two young fruit trees killed this year by neighborhood cats using them as scratching posts). Or maybe you mean the rights of other cat owners who have wandering cats howling outside their windows all night and spraying their doors and windows.

Our CC&Rs explicitly state "Dogs and cats shall not be allowed to run at large." Seems like it would be pretty hard to twist that into anything but meaning that cats shouldn't run loose. Issues with pets, including cats, are one of the main sources of the complaints that my Board gets. If you really think that it is "nonsense" for your Boards to deal with these issues, then you may be in the wrong line of work.
RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:901


12/31/2006 5:42 AM  
Posted By DwightT on 12/30/2006 5:35 PM

Our CC&Rs explicitly state "Dogs and cats shall not be allowed to run at large." Seems like it would be pretty hard to twist that into anything but meaning that cats shouldn't run loose. ........


Agreed. This from our CC&Rs: "Pets must not constitute a nuisance or cause unsanitary conditions. Pets must be kept on owner’s lots and will be considered a nuisance if allowed to roam on other lots or streets unless leashed."

Care to put a twist on that one?



Ron
SC
RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:901


12/31/2006 5:54 AM  
Posted By KathleenB on 12/30/2006 5:01 PM

As an Association Manager, the amount of time I have seen my Boards deal with this type of nonsense never ceases to amaze me. I wish more people were aware before they buy into an HOA that a rule or phrase in the CC&R's will most likely be twisted into something ridiculous by their Board of Directors. This is why Homeowners' Associations are becomming more and regulated by the government. Too many rights have been stepped on. A good Board promotes a feeling of community and picks their battles more wisely. Virginia, these people can be powerful enemies. To avoid a full on war, comply to their request, get on the Board and then change the rule. Keep your enemies close.


KathleenB, I don't know what the situation is with the HOAs you manage, but in ours, and several others I have investigated, the "rules" (such as the animals not running oin other people's properties) are written into the CC&Rs. In our case, changing the requirements that pets be kept in the owner's yard or on a leash would require that we have our attorney draw up an ammendment to the CC&Rs, have a membership vote on the ammendment, have 75% or more of the members approve the change, and record the results with the appropriate county agency. The entire proceedure would cost several hundred dollars of HOA funds.

Is this likely to happen? I doubt it.

Now if you're suggesting that boards just ignore some of the conditions in the CC&Rs, who decides which ones to ignore? And if someone decides to park a boat in his front yard, how do you explain to him that you are enforcing that part of the CC&Rs but not the pet running loose part?

Finally, many people bought their properties with the expectation that the CC&Rs would be enforced. How do you explain to them later that you've decided not to? Isn't enforcing the CC&Rs part of the responsibility of the BOD?

Ron
SC
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


12/31/2006 6:22 AM  
KathleenB perhaps you could enlighten me as to how our section which clearly states that any allowed animal on the common elements shall be leashed or restrained is being twisted into something ridiculous by the BOD; not to mention it is also against the law to allow pets to roam freely.


Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347


03/12/2007 12:51 PM  
Cats on Leashes is a reasonable rule and falls under an animal must be on a leash and owner must be in control of pet at all times. Without a leash an owner cannot be in control of their pet; further, a leash doesn't really guarantee that the owner will control their pet, but it does offer better odds.

As a pet owner you need to be in control of it; same as you would want others to do if their large dog had your cat in its sight.

PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347


03/12/2007 12:55 PM  
KathleenB:
This is somewhat departing from the original post; however, would you define your statement...'Homeowners' Associations are becomming more and regulated by the government'. If so in your state, how?
JC3


Posts:290


03/12/2007 4:01 PM  
[quote]Posted By VirginiaC on 10/30/2006 3:47 PM

The association rules state that all "pets" have to be on a leash. At the time we moved in, we logically assumed that meant dogs...cats by nature do not wear leashes...where is the logic in this? Honestly, has anyone actually EVER seen a cat on a leash? The animal has done no damage in the community, and they said the complaint was that he is a "menace to the dogs". Well, now I think I've heard it all...

I would like to know from anyone out there how to fight this...do I do a neighborhood petition perhaps? Thanks for any and all help.[/quote]

Dogs don't, by nature, wear leashes. No animal, _by nature_ wears leashes. I have seen cats on leashes. My friend has two he leashes and takes for walks. One person up the street walks her cat on a leash.

Loose cats DO do damage. They are in other people's yards, urinating and defacating wherever they want. My neighbor purchased a cat trap and has trapped and removed two cats, hasn't caught the other 3 that are constantly loose in our area. I don't want YOUR cat stinking up my yard. When I walk my dog, I carry bags and pick up after her, though I am not required to by law, being a mobility disabled person.
Leash your cat. It's the rules.
NancyL1
(Florida)

Posts:7


03/12/2007 6:00 PM  
I have put leashes on my previous cats. Once when we were driving to another state to live. A friend of mine had moved and their cat jumped out of the car at a rest stop, ran into the wood, and was never seen again so I leashed both my cats when ever we were out of the car. I also leashed them when walking them outside (which granted didn't happen too often) so they wouldn't wander off and get lost or injured. The cat I have now, however, won't even wear a collar! If I put one on him he goes nuts until you take it off. I do let him out in our fenced backyard and he does not leave the backyard. Maybe letting the cat into a fenced area or a screen porch is an option for you. I don't understand the whole indoor/outdoor cat thing. IMHO its one or the other. The responsible thing to do is keep your cat indoors. Most domestic cats are perfectly content spending their entire lives indoors.
NancyL1
(Florida)

Posts:7


03/12/2007 6:03 PM  
lol! I want a cat like that. Mine will just rub them to death.
NancyL1
(Florida)

Posts:7


03/12/2007 6:08 PM  
[quote]Posted By VirginiaC on 10/30/2006 12:34 PM

My home owner's association is requiring that I have my indoor-outdoor cat on a leash when he is outside. I think this is rediculous and was wondering if anyone had any experience with similar requirements.[/quote]


I think the first response is probably your best bet. If the CCR says "pets" then you are out of luck I'm afraid. If it says "dogs" then check into your state regulations. Each state is different. In my state the Board can not change the CCR w/out a majority vote by the members. I don't agree with the guy who says they can "adjust" them w/out a vote. That just sounds like a way to skirt the rules and make changes w/out approval.
MarkC3
(Indiana)

Posts:43


04/12/2007 1:26 PM  
We have a complaint right now that is regarding a loose cat that uses other propertied as a litter box and is a nuisance. Now our covenants blankets all pet as to being on a leash, being Indiana, HOA's can't apply fines to violation. So, I need advise as to what I can do as the President of our HOA when we have violation such as this current cat issue? I(we) can't policy this cat and act as animal control, we are all volunteers with jobs. The only thing I can think of of instruct the complainant to file a complaint with animal control. Please advise.

As for other non pet issues, what recourse do we have as a board to enforce violations when fines are not allowed, small claims court?

Thanks
BarbaraS
(New Mexico)

Posts:49


04/12/2007 1:55 PM  
Our HOA covenants states that all pets outside the confines of the owner's unit must comply with city ordinances governing the leashing of pets. (Our city ordinance requires leashes for ALL pets). Hope this helps.
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


04/12/2007 2:18 PM  
We had a problem with multiple homeowners allowing their cats to run free in violation of the Declarations. I put a notice in the newsletter that we (BOD) would hire a company to begin trapping them and take them to the local animal shelter. Problem went away.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JulieS
(Georgia)

Posts:412


04/14/2007 6:32 PM  
Notify the owner of the cat stating that they are in violation of the covenants by not obeying the leash law, and that their pet is also creating a nuisance (also stated in your covenants).

Keep sending the letters and let them know that should the problem continue, animal control will be called. We send letters, are able to fine but also recommend that the person with the complaint also call animal control (assuming you live where there is a leash law on cats).
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


04/15/2007 1:45 AM  
We have a CITY next to us that requires cats to be CAGED if outside. Cats are NOT allowed to run "free". Other cities in the area are also working to adopt this rule of caging outdoor cats or requiring leashes. It's NOT just a HOA thing. The HOA's CITY/County may be requiring this. Just like most leash laws have to be followed by HOA's even if they aren't in the CC&R's.
My HOA, someone moved out and "lost" their cat. However, the cat eventually showed up as a "ferrule" cat. No one could capture it. It just became a "neighborhood" cat. A few owners would feed it but couldn't come near it. The cat then got pregnant and had a litter of kittens. A couple of owners decided to contact a ferrule cat rescue group to capture the cat and the kittens. They setup cages throughout the area. Eventually the kittens all got captured except for "Mama cat" (her name). The kittens were adopted amongst the homeowners and tamed. The mama cat went on and had 1 more litter of kittens and they lived in the ditch. A few of those kittens died. However, mother cat was finally caught. Someone in the neighborhood had the sense enough to pay for "Mama cat" to be fixed. I believe "Mama cat" escaped shortly after that. This time, she can't have any more kittens atleast. The neighborhood still takes care of the cat if seen. She's still NOT tame.
I reckon our neighborhood is real cat friendly. We had several cats that freely ran around the neighborhood. Those cats were owned and fixed. Most of us knew who the owners were. We did have a few complaints of cats tearing up flower gardens here and there. I just bought some Dog and Cat repellent and put in the flower beds for those residents. Basically, our neighborhood welcomed cats and took care of eachothers animals. We called animal control if there were any violations or animals being abused.
It really does depend on the "culture" of your HOA on how they handle animal issues. Most residents were animal lovers in ours but still hated doggy/cat poop in their yards. We just created "suggestable" areas near dumpsters or the front entrance where there are no homes for animals to go. I cleaned up the park area and put repellant in it to keep that area clean. Your HOA may just need to make adjustments that allow happy responsible pet owners and those who aren't animal owners to find a happy medium. That may start with letting pet owners know what properties to avoid. Later, make a meeting with animal control to explain the laws if need be. Good luck with getting a cat on a leash!!!

Former HOA President
BruceD
(Ohio)

Posts:9


04/15/2007 8:09 AM  
I live in a condominium, am a board member. Yes I have seen a cat on a leash, since that is a rule in our community. In most cases a harness is a better option then just a collar, not only with cats but also with some smaller dogs.
BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:2640


04/15/2007 10:00 AM  
If you are going to own a pet be a responsible pet owner. IF the rules are it has to be leashed, then leash it. Don't let it poop in others yards and clean up after them. Pet owners often say that these animals are like children. Well, when was the last time you say a kid running around the neighborhood unsupervised pooping in everyone's yards. I like animals as much as everyone, however, I choose not to own one right now because I don't have the room and don't want the responsibility. It bothers me when people let animals run all over and then complain when someone calls them on breaking laws.
TracyT
(Maryland)

Posts:228


04/15/2007 1:07 PM  
I had two indoor cats. I kept them inside for their health. They loved to look out the windows but they got terribly upset when ever an outdoor cat, dog, raccoon or fox came up to the window.

Another cat found us. I think she just got out of her house and got lost or was dropped in our neighborhood. After being inside for couple months she got out one cold winter night. Fortunately she decided to not stay out long and ran straight for her food bowl when she came back in. When the weather warmed up she was still making like she wanted outside, so I bought a leash and lead and let her out on the patio during day. At first she didn't like getting into the leash but the next thing I noticed was when she wanted outside she would pace between the door and basket where I kept the leash. She'd rub the basket then back to the door. Getting the leash on her was snap - she just laid there and let me put it on. (the older indoors cats however, would have nothing of it. They just stayed inside.)

When we moved to this house and installed a screened porch they were 'purrrfectly' content to stay within the confines. They got some sun and breeze or a 'cat' nap. :-)

JulieS
(Georgia)

Posts:412


04/15/2007 3:06 PM  
Will 'cats on leashes' make it to four pages???
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


04/16/2007 1:13 PM  
Do cats have four paws and run around on leashes???

Former HOA President
JulieS
(Georgia)

Posts:412


04/17/2007 4:27 PM  
Why yes, I believe so...even on leashes!
TracyT
(Maryland)

Posts:228


04/17/2007 8:28 PM  
Me too. Apparently an old 'cat' can be taught new a trick :-)
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


04/18/2007 4:27 AM  
I want four pages! How about you???

Former HOA President
DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:664


04/18/2007 6:45 AM  
If it does go to four pages, wouldn't it be better if the content was actually related to the subject?

With the arrival of Spring, loose cats seem to be becoming a problem in our neighborhood again. I have some bunch grass in my garden that some cats seem to find comfortable and have turned into a bed, and consequently killed the grass. A neighbor is highly allergic to cats, and the cats seem to know it and enjoy tormenting him. They are often found laying on his patio furniture, leaving behind hair, dander, and "other deposits", making it practically impossible for him to be out on his own patio. And it's no fun having two cats get into a yowling match under your bedroom window at 2:00AM as has happened twice in the last week.

Unfortunately the City animal control dept. can't really help us when it comes to cats. I guess because of the way the city ordinance is written, they can only deal with loose dogs, not cats. Our CC&Rs do address cats, but we would have to identify the owner first, and even then there isn't much that we can do (at least until we decide if we can assess fines - but that's another thread).

One thing that Animal Control did suggest when I called was to put out live traps to catch the cats, then take a photo of the cat and post it on a website. I can get some inexpensive "collars" that I can write the URL for the website on, put the collar on the cat and let it go again. Along with the photo would be text explaining the problems that loose cats are causing and letting the owners know that if the cat is trapped again, it will be taken to the County Animal Shelter. Hopefully the owners will take the hint and control their cat.

If I do take this route though I'll be posting it on my personal website and not the HOA website. It would probably be better if this was being done as a homeowner, not a board member.
JulieS
(Georgia)

Posts:412


04/18/2007 4:09 PM  
I noticed yesterday that there is a new cat hanging around my yard. He seems to think my bird feeders are there for him to catch his dinner. I find this rather aggrivating. Never seen this cat before so don't know who it belongs to.

A year ago, a cat followed me up the street and he has been here ever since. He was someone's cat as it is fixed, thankfully, so there are no new kitties to find homes for. This one sleeps in my garage and I have made a litter box for it which he prefers. Hopefully in early May, he will be going to a new home. And maybe the ferral cat will stop coming by also for free handouts.

I have four cats and they are perfectly content in staying indoors, or in my screened porch. I am happy with this situation also.

People just need to be educated about cats and become responsible pet owners.

Now maybe four pages....then we will beat the dog thread.
JulieS
(Georgia)

Posts:412


04/18/2007 4:09 PM  
They must be making the pages longer....
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


04/19/2007 4:23 AM  
MEOW!!! Cats rule!!! We got 4 pages!!! Now what about exotic animals.... Monkey's anyone???

Former HOA President
JanM
(Texas)

Posts:142


04/19/2007 7:08 AM  
I have a ferret that I tried to leash train but they don't make the collars small enough. I also tried a harness and tried to adjust it to fit snugger but ferrets seem to have an uncanny way of squeezing in and out of very small places. Plus their legs are too short to help hold the harness in place.
TracyT
(Maryland)

Posts:228


04/19/2007 12:44 PM  
How about 'wild life'. Now that domestic animals are under control lets get those bunnies, foxes, deer, snakes and mice etc. to stay on their own property (um or at least off ours). :-)
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


04/20/2007 4:02 PM  
Oh my gosh! I almost posted the same thing about my Ferret!!! That is soo wild!!! By the way, I did finally get a leash on my ferret. It's not easy. It's a rope type of leash with a clasp. If you wrap it just right and are able to get it under the armpits gently enough, it does work. The harness I bought was a joke!
By the way, I now walk my ferret in a backpack bag with a mesh screen. You can buy them at the pet store ($30). I wear mine on my front with the screen pointing outward for her (Measley Weasle) to see out of. She loves it!
You have to see me walking down the road with 2 dogs and a ferret around my belly!!!

Former HOA President
JanM
(Texas)

Posts:142


04/21/2007 8:10 AM  
Can you imagine ferrets running loose? Talk about destructive little diggers! Flowerbeds would be extinct! I have had to replace all my live plants with fake ones in the house.
JulieS
(Georgia)

Posts:412


04/21/2007 6:36 PM  
Cats rule!
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