Get 1 year of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Monday, October 18, 2021











HOATalk is a free service of Community123.com:

Easy to use website tools to help your board
Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.
Subject: Special Meeting-voting rights
Prev Next
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Page 2 of 2 << < 12
Author Messages
StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89


12/28/2010 4:23 PM  
Glent's response describing the parameters to conduct a special are well presented. Your by laws may differ somewhat but he is on target. One issue that is cloudy in my HOA is that we only 5% of the resident owners to request a special meeting and then 25% of the owner residents must be present for the meeting to be considered a quorum (official meeting) and then if an issue is put forth a majority in attendance must approve. Now, there are some exceptions to what can be voted on and approved at these special meetings requested by homeowners. I will pursue this but I believe a by law can't be changed at a special meeting but requires a general vote of all homeowners. Of course, the best approach is to get a copy of your by laws and be sure to read the references to exceptions, etc.
StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89


12/28/2010 4:46 PM  
NormanM1

You have a problem in your HOA that makes my problems, although real and costing residents unnecessary expenses each year, seem small. Please keep this site informed on events in Nevada or other sources of information to follow your situation: I find it interesting and involves all the elements of why HOA's are distained by many. States do differ in aspects of HOA governance but one thing I find common to all states is that enforcement of so called laws is difficult to impossible and at best very expensive to the homeowner. Thanks again
StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89


12/28/2010 4:50 PM  
Donna, most by laws indicate that Board members are not to be compensated, period. A lunch is ok or pot of flowers but ongoing compensation is generally stated to be not appropriate or allowed. So, in the case of allowing for waiver of HOA fees to a Board members, if this was voted on it simply may not be binding or legal. Now try to enforce or reverse the vote and you will see that what I've been preaching on the difference between what should be and what is can leave homeowners with the bill
StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89


12/28/2010 4:59 PM  
Can someone please give the web site for CAI? The last time I checked out something similar to this it was an advocacy web site for HOA attorneys. Also, I would like to know if anyone can suggest a legal firm that represents homeowners? I have found many HOA attorney web sites and when you read below their promotion they represent BOD's.
RanaG
(Nevada)

Posts:12


12/28/2010 5:11 PM  
http://www.caionline.org/Pages/Default.aspx

Stan you are 100% correct. They pretend to be a group that protects the interests of the homowners but they are run by the BOARDS attorney's. We have been told over and over again that the attorney we pay does NOT represent the homeowners at all, we pay them to represent the board, i.e. the association. The next largest part of their membership are realtors, maangment companies and CAMs. They have some homeowners, most often those hoodwinked by the board into believing that they are watch-dogs for the owners but, as I said in a prior post, show me one piece of legislation proposed by them that favors owners.
StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89


12/28/2010 5:42 PM  
RanaG,

Thanks for exhibiting your knowledge and reality of many of the associations who put up a front of being unbiased and even representing the interests of homeowners when at the same time they represent the HOA Boards.

I do put out the challenge to all to recommend a site other than this one that allows for open discussion of homeowner, Board, and other interested parties issues. Please keep posting your issues and observations and progress in improving your community.
SamJ2
(Nevada)

Posts:24


12/29/2010 4:29 AM  
Posted By RanaG on 12/28/2010 4:23 PM
Tim, that statute number is NRS 116.31175 #7 hope that helps. You can get to it by logging onto the www.Stateofnevada.gov



I love Google!

I found it here: http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-116.html#NRS116Sec31175

Click Here!

Sam Judie
SamJ2
(Nevada)

Posts:24


12/29/2010 4:40 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 12/28/2010 11:23 AM
Sam,

All an Association is provide the option. My Association has a website with a forum section. There are a whole 3 members registered on that forum. The website is advertised in every issue of our newsletter and referenced at all general membership meetings. The site includes minutes, governing documents and links to State/Federal documents.

I know for a fact, because I am currently administrator of the site, that we get more traffic from real estate agents and contractors wanting to provide services to us then traffic from our own Association.

The point I am trying to make is please don't think that the internet is going to be the answer to membership apathy. Typically, from my experience, membership involvement increases only when there is a controversial issue (usually with money involved) and quickly wanes once the issue is decided one way or the other.

A website is certainly a plus for any Association. However, I believe most people would still prefer watching something on you-tube then reading about what is happening within the Association.
However, an option should still be there.


BTW, our website is also how our Association is complying with VA law which says:

§ 55-510.2. Distribution of information by members.

The board of directors shall establish a reasonable, effective, and free method, appropriate to the size and nature of the association, for lot owners to communicate among themselves and with the board of directors regarding any matter concerning the association.


Tim





Tim.......I promise you...if your Community was to initiate my idea? Giving every single Home Owner 'Informational Voting Rights Using the Internet'? It would take less than one year for participation to shoot way up past just one or two home owners participating on that site! Especially if your HOA Dues are Raised $$$ and you hear some complaints for some disgruntled Home Owners afterward? And you tell them..........Well? Why didn't you vote on 'this issue' on our Website? We thought.............us Board Members did not get any input from you? So we assumed you did NOT mind us raising your Annual HOA Dues?

I can promise you participation will indeed INCREASE!


Sam Judie
SamJ2
(Nevada)

Posts:24


12/29/2010 5:01 AM  
Posted By DonnaS on 12/28/2010 11:42 AM

Sam,

From your post, you seem to feel that the Internet can solve many HOA problems with communicating to their members. Perhaps but....."30% of the United States do not have access to the internet at home. 40% do not have access to Broadband."
Source(s):
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10454133-94.html

Florida has State Statutes that the Internet may not replace direct mail connections as a replacement for notifications of meetings and communications unless the member signs off onto the electronic style of receiving notices.

Which means that altho most of us think that the Internet is the solution for associations to inform their membership, it is not a foolproof method of information transfer. It is a secondary tool to use.





Donna............it is by FAR the easiest! And best of all? It is FREE!
It would actually completely Eliminate the NEED to ever have an actual HOA Meeting where your physical presence is required! No more not hearing what is actually being said! No more being restricted to just two minutes for your response that may be poorly given? No more being restricted to giving input to your HOA Board to just a few poorly attended Meetings a year?

NO! Using the Internet..........you can actually participate in your HOA 24/7 365 days a year! You can read at your leisure ALL issues concerning your HOA! You can take your time....editing your response to an issue dozens of times before SUBMITTING IT!

Donna? Just like ALL of us are currently doing right here at HOATALK DOT COM!

Please? HOAs were 'invented' By Lawyers.......For LAWYERS! It is a $$$ CASH COW $$$ for HOA Management Companies, Collection Agencies and LAWYERS!

My Favorite Joke? 'What do you call one thousand Lawyers all chained together at the bottom of the ocean? ~ A GOOD START!

Please? Everyone? Using the INTERNET allowing ALL Home Owners "Informational Voting Rights'? 24/7 - 365 Days a Year - WILL REVOLUTIONIZE the entire HOA Industry! Making ALL HOAs more 'Home Owner-Friendly'!

And Donna? FREE USE of High Speed Computers is available to every American from their Local Library, Rec and Senior Centers! And FREE E-mail available to ALL using Yahoo Mail and Google Mail!

So Please? Let your notion of 'this' not being a viable option for ALL Americans please disappear?.........Sam


~


Sam Judie
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


12/29/2010 5:01 AM  
Posted By SamJ2 on 12/29/2010 4:40 AM


Tim.......I promise you...if your Community was to initiate my idea? Giving every single Home Owner 'Informational Voting Rights Using the Internet'? It would take less than one year for participation to shoot way up past just one or two home owners participating on that site!





Sam,

Our site has been up for 5 years. The forum for 3. We have had the major issues - changing of guidelines, increasing annual assessments by 20% to properly fund the reserves.

For the guidelines, Each change showed the existing and the proposed on its on topic in the forum. We sent out polls with self addressed stamped envelopes to return them in. We mentioned the website and that the Board wanted feedback in our newsletters. We delivered a printed copy of proposed guidelines with a letter to each member saying please provide feedback. We held a special membership meeting to specifically discus the guidelines. We open the floor for discussion at our annual meeting. This was discussed for over two years. The result:

Forums - zero feedback
Poll - 51% return
Special Meeting - 15% turnout

The biggest issue in the guidelines was to allow all homes to have decks vs. just some of the homes.



For our increase in Annual Assessments by 20%. This was also on the website. Directed proxies forms with self addressed return envelopes were sent out for the meetings (we needed two). Printed material was delivered to each homeowner. Printed material was available at each meeting. Newsletter editions stated info was available on the website. Newsletters mentioned feedback can be done on the forum, via e-mail, in writing. We embraced VA law about using technology and offered people to send directed proxies by e-mail.

Results:

53 lots first meeting (quorum not met - no vote)
55 lots second meeting (quorum met) Vote 50 yea 5 nay.



Bottom line. Websites are great. E-mail addresses for Board members fantastic. However, it doesn't change membership apathy. It only increases the methods members can participate if they wish. The old saying - you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.


Sam your ideas are great! I'm considering including some of them in our website.
However, I believe that your expected results should be adjusted.


Tim
RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164


12/29/2010 5:10 AM  
Sam,
Explain informational voting rights? Go you use them? How are the melded into the individual CC%R's? Are they binding? From your post, it seems you are suggesting to use them as some kind of a ploy to get the attention of the members. Announcing a dues increase for the purpose of getting attention seems counterproductive. Participation of the owners (it seems to me) has to be an ongoing strong effort of the director to monitor and icclude the members. I doubt it can be legislated. Some Boards do a good job, other fail miserably because of all kinds of reason. But behind it all is the dedication to educate and inform the ownership by the management. Includes the individual Board members, especially the president and any other management personnel including the lawyers. But bottom line, the owners carry the power. It is not demonstrated in many many associations, as evidenced by this thread, but, it works some places, and that can't be denied. It is also in a state of flux, good going bad, b ad getting better, some failing, some rising from the ashes, it's a tough challenge for the members, but it is their challenge, they signed the papers.

Is the above a solution? No...........just an observation.

Rome was not built in a day, etc, etc.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


12/29/2010 5:41 AM  
Posted By RanaG on 12/28/2010 4:23 PM
Tim, that statute number is NRS 116.31175 #7 hope that helps. You can get to it by logging onto the www.Stateofnevada.gov




Thanks Rana.

Interesting law. The link to the law is CHAPTER 116 - COMMON-INTEREST OWNERSHIP (UNIFORM ACT) Scroll down or click the link on the site to go to 116,31175


The specific section says:

7. If an official publication contains or will contain the views or opinions of the association, the executive board, a community manager or an officer, employee or agent of an association concerning an issue of official interest, the official publication must, upon request and without charge, provide equal space to opposing views and opinions of a unit’s owner, tenant or resident of the common-interest community.


This shows that my previous expectations were not completely applicable. If one wanted to nitpick the law it could have a lot of issues:

1. Per the law only the opinions/views are open to this law, not a statement of fact.

Example: The bylaws say xyz therefore the measure failed/passed - this statement would not be applicable to that section.

Example: The board proposes changing the color scheme to have yellow houses only - this statement would be in a gray area. The statement itself is a statement of fact not an opinion on why the color scheme should be changed.

Example: The board proposes changing the color scheme to have yellow houses only because they believe it will be best for the community - this statement is definatly an opinion and "equal space" must be provided.

Note the words equal space in the law. The last example I gave would require, under the law. to allow anyone with an opposing view to have 22 words or an equal space that it took to print those 22 words (perhaps 1/2 -1 column inch in a newsletter).

Clearly not the intent of the law, but that is the language of the law. Therefore, if a Board is careful and only reports facts, then they would never have to provide space in those publications.


Again, thank you for the specifics.

Tim

In the las
SamJ2
(Nevada)

Posts:24


12/29/2010 5:45 AM  
Robert R and Tim B.....

Initially? Giving all Home Owners "Informational Voting Rights" would NOT be done 'legally' ....in the sense that this new Procedure would be explained in your HOA's CC&Rs..........

I fully believe that when the idea of HOAs was first invented by Lawyers .....lets see....Google says: Click Here.........they knew enough even way back then (the 60's) to NOT let the Home Owners themselves hold any real power? They (the Lawyers) knew even then the great amounts $$ of money it would generate for themselves!

NO.......Now? You would have to do whatever it says in your particular CC&Rs to make such a major change. In our Community at RiverLanding? We can actually dissolve the Corporation that is our HOA with a Yes vote of just 66% of the Home Owners! Click Here Then we could just Donate our Pool and RV Storage Lot to Charity! And we would no longer have ANY HOA DUES WHATSOEVER! The City of Henderson already has great Ordinances against parking RV and Boats on just a dirt yard, etc.

So? In your particular Community? You may have to actually Dissolve the Corporation that is your HOA then form a new Corporation that would allow for the Home Owners to actually have "Informational Voting Rights" using the Internet 24/7 365 days a year! Hmmmmm? Jonathan Friedrich's Lawyer "Robert Sullivan" may be able to better explain this? I will send him an e-mail this morning with link to this Forum and hopefully get his input Click here?

With enough people behind this? Virtually anything is possible! That is the idea behind my Boss: Jonathan Friedrich's Website: The HOA Advocate

We are ALL working hard to change Nevada's NRS116 Laws to make them more Home-Owner Friendly!

And with the proliferation of the internet? What we do here in Nevada? Could very quickly spread throughout The Country!

Please? How very easy and FREE it would be to let every Home Owner in the Country to: "HAVE A SAY IN THEIR HOA"!

.......Sam

Sam Judie
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


12/29/2010 5:51 AM  
Sam.

You said to Donna: Donna............it is by FAR the easiest! And best of all? It is FREE!
It would actually completely Eliminate the NEED to ever have an actual HOA Meeting where your physical presence is required! No more not hearing what is actually being said! No more being restricted to just two minutes for your response that may be poorly given? No more being restricted to giving input to your HOA Board to just a few poorly attended Meetings a year?


The internet is not Free. There are costs associated to the Association in paying for the hosting service and registering a domain name (yearly costs). This is the minimal that is needed if you have volunteers to design, maintain and police the site. Yes, police the site.

As a volunteer administrating my Associations web site, I have spent 20+ hours a month keeping spam off of the site. Yes there are services that will do that for you, however that also costs money.


The end user must either own a computer and pay for internet service or go to a library (or other location) where the cost for the computer and internet service is being paid by others. Even to access the "free" e-mail from various providers, there is still the cost of the computer and internet service.

IT IS NOT FREE - Either you are paying for it directly (by purchasing the equipment/service) or indirectly through taxes and Association assessments.

Tim



SamJ2
(Nevada)

Posts:24


12/29/2010 6:24 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 12/29/2010 5:51 AM
Sam.

You said to Donna: Donna............it is by FAR the easiest! And best of all? It is FREE!
It would actually completely Eliminate the NEED to ever have an actual HOA Meeting where your physical presence is required! No more not hearing what is actually being said! No more being restricted to just two minutes for your response that may be poorly given? No more being restricted to giving input to your HOA Board to just a few poorly attended Meetings a year?


The internet is not Free. There are costs associated to the Association in paying for the hosting service and registering a domain name (yearly costs). This is the minimal that is needed if you have volunteers to design, maintain and police the site. Yes, police the site.

As a volunteer administrating my Associations web site, I have spent 20+ hours a month keeping spam off of the site. Yes there are services that will do that for you, however that also costs money.


The end user must either own a computer and pay for internet service or go to a library (or other location) where the cost for the computer and internet service is being paid by others. Even to access the "free" e-mail from various providers, there is still the cost of the computer and internet service.

IT IS NOT FREE - Either you are paying for it directly (by purchasing the equipment/service) or indirectly through taxes and Association assessments.

Tim








TIM? I have over 200 (Crude) Websites World-Wide using Home Stead

and my yearly cost for all 200 of them is $600 ......that works out to just $3 per site per year! My yearly Domain Name cost is just $7.49 - $9.99 per domain using GoDaddy Dot Com

A new Computer at Walmart is just $400 or a refurbished one from a Computer Repair Shop is less than $200

Tim? E-mail is FREE! In my little Community? Postage Costs are mammoth compared to internet costs!

And again? It NEED NOT be for 100% of the Home Owners! I don't care if it was just a dozen home owners using the Internet for their HOA? That is a dozen more than before the use of the internet!

And in regards to allowing ALL Home Owners "Informational Voting Rights"?

On any given issue uploaded to the Community Website? A Question like?

Should we close our very old, crumbling, expensive, always-vandalized Pool and convert it to a Community Park? Click Here!
The Home Owners...........either just 3 or 4 or even 100s ......can cast their "Informational Vote" .........and there NEVER NEED BE A MAJORITY to occur to enact the change!

The Vote can be: 4 YES - 3 NO ..... YES WINS! ..... or 500 YES - 499 NO ........again? "YES" WINS!

And TIM? There would be absolutely NO COST if your Community was just to open a Free FACE BOOK PAGE ....

Sam Judie
SamJ2
(Nevada)

Posts:24


12/29/2010 6:47 AM  
Tim?

Again? Compared to just Postage Costs? To mail out Newsletters and Invoices to a Community?

If you were to use the Internet for FREE? You could e-mail out Newsletters every single week of the year! TOTALLY FREE !

The Internet is already in place for everyone in the Country! FOR FREE! Just walk to your Library to save Gas Money.....use the FREE Computer that is being paid for by Tax Payers whether you ever use it or not?

SO? Join your Community! Help your Community! Embrace Your Community! ..........USE THE FREE INTERNET! TODAY!

CLICK HERE! to open a totally FREE Face Book Page! Over 500 Million Users Now! Can they ALL be wrong?

Sam Judie
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


12/29/2010 6:58 AM  

Sam,

I have to tell you that you are dead wrong. 30% of Americans do not have Internet NOR DO THEY WANT IT!!!!

"And Donna? FREE USE of High Speed Computers is available to every American from their Local Library, Rec and Senior Centers! And FREE E-mail available to ALL using Yahoo Mail and Google Mail!

So Please? Let your notion of 'this' not being a viable option for ALL Americans please disappear?.........Sam

You cannot mandate that they have it or use it so again I say, State law says that they may not be forced to use the internet. You can argue on the virtues of the internet use for a HOA but it will never happen.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


12/29/2010 7:06 AM  
Sam,

Your missing my point, while at the same time - supporting it.

Equipment costs money. Granted, prices are getting lower, but some cost is still there. I never said the costs were massive, I said that there are costs involved.

Deciding if the cost is too much would entirely depend on the unique specifics of an individual or family's financial status.

The point being - IT IS NOT FREE


I agree that postage is far, far more expensive then e-mail or webistes. However, our Association - and other Associations - must comply with various State laws which may or may not allow the discontinuance of printing and/or mailing.

Lets move on from that topic because I believe that the best you and I will be able to do is agree to disagree on it.



You also mentioned informational voting -

From what you described, am I correct in the understanding that you are proposing the community vote on each and every issue an Association faces?
Please clarify that for me.



You also mentioned the ability of the membership to abolish the Associations.

I believe that you will find this to be the an option for any Association that is incorporated. Therefore, it is not unique.

However, what I don't believe you understand is that abolishing the corporation does not necessarily abolish the covenants. Typically, the covenants are bound to and run with the land. By abolishing a corporation, you only transfer the enforcement requirement onto each and every homeowner. Therefore, if a neighbor chose to, they could file legal action against a neighbor to enforce the covenants that everybody agreed to live by.



Tim
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


12/29/2010 7:21 AM  
Sam,


You stated: "Please? How very easy and FREE it would be to let every Home Owner in the Country to: "HAVE A SAY IN THEIR HOA"! "



Don't members have a say now? Can't a member contact their board through meetings, telephone, mail, e-mail, in person?

Lets use my Association as an actual discussion point for what you are proposing.
My Association offers the following ways members can participate and they are free or inexpensive:

Open Board meetings - anyone may attend
Meetings are announced on our website and in our newsletter
Contact a Board member by e-mail -
E-mail addresses are posted on our website, in our newsletter and on mailings
Contact a Board member by telephone -
Telephone numbers are published in our newsletter
Contact a Board member by U.S. Mail -
Mailing address is on every mailing, in our newsletter, and on our website
Contact a Board member in person - we all live in the community
Although specific addresses are not published in our documents - they can be
gotten and/or just stop one of us in the street.
General Membership Meetings - Open to all
Meetings are announced on our website, in mailings, in our newsletter and
on entrance signs.
Using Website - We have an open forum section
Forums are mentioned in newsletters, clicked from our website, and can be
googled, binged, yahoo - any search engine.
Instituted directed vs. general proxies -
This way the members who can not attend a general meeting can direct the board how to cast a
vote for them (vs. just giving the board an opportunity to vote how the board wants). Proxies
are accepted via mail, in person and by e-mail. Additionally, on issues we believe are a
hot topic for the community we do mailings with self addressed stamped return envelopes.


I would love to have 100% participation in everything by the membership. To date, the max we have gotten was 45%. That is with a resident membership (those living in the home affected by these decisions) of 80%. Matter of fact, we are getting a 90% participation of non-resident members.

Please explain, specifically, how your proposal is different from what we are doing and will overcome membership apathy.

I'm asking this because I would love to implement anything that would increase membership participation and, that I suspect that I am missing something in your posts as it appears my Association is doing more then what you are saying should be done.


Tim
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


12/29/2010 7:25 AM  
Reposted to make it easier to read:?

Sam,


You stated: "Please? How very easy and FREE it would be to let every Home Owner in the Country to: "HAVE A SAY IN THEIR HOA"! "



Don't members have a say now? Can't a member contact their board through meetings, telephone, mail, e-mail, in person?

Lets use my Association as an actual discussion point for what you are proposing.
My Association offers the following ways members can participate and they are free or inexpensive:

Open Board meetings - anyone may attend
Meetings are announced on our website and in our newsletter

Contact a Board member by e-mail -
E-mail addresses are posted on our website, in our newsletter and on mailings

Contact a Board member by telephone -
Telephone numbers are published in our newsletter

Contact a Board member by U.S. Mail -
Mailing address is on every mailing, in our newsletter, and on our website

Contact a Board member in person - we all live in the community
Although specific addresses are not published in our documents - they can be
gotten and/or just stop one of us in the street.

General Membership Meetings - Open to all
Meetings are announced on our website, in mailings, in our newsletter and
on entrance signs.

Using Website - We have an open forum section
Forums are mentioned in newsletters, clicked from our website, and can be
googled, binged, yahoo - any search engine.

Instituted directed vs. general proxies -
This way the members who can not attend a general meeting can direct the board how to cast a
vote for them (vs. just giving the board an opportunity to vote how the board wants). Proxies
are accepted via mail, in person and by e-mail. Additionally, on issues we believe are a
hot topic for the community we do mailings with self addressed stamped return envelopes.


I would love to have 100% participation in everything by the membership. To date, the max we have gotten was 45%. That is with a resident membership (those living in the home affected by these decisions) of 80%. Matter of fact, we are getting a 90% participation of non-resident members.

Please explain, specifically, how your proposal is different from what we are doing and will overcome membership apathy.

I'm asking this because I would love to implement anything that would increase membership participation and, that I suspect that I am missing something in your posts as it appears my Association is doing more then what you are saying should be done.


Tim
NormanM1
(Nevada)

Posts:8


12/29/2010 7:47 AM  
I have been keeping up with the current comments here on the Topic of “Special Meeting-voting rights”. While it has been both interesting and informative, we hear in Nevada have bigger fish to fry.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to get the attention of our State representatives regarding suspicions of fraudulent interactions between a homeowner association and the management company that is a hired contractor?

Case in point – Nevada law says that a “full” reserve study MUST be done every five years (at a minimum). The association had gone over SIX years and still did not have a valid reserve study in place. Then a strange thing happened (documented). The MANAGEMENT company filed a form with the State of Nevada, and claimed that a reserve study was “Current” but in fact it had been rejected by a unanimous vote of the Board members (also documented). Because this all took place more than one year ago, and the State will not accept a complaint that is over that imposed time limit, the Association gets to “skirt around the law”, and the Management company also gets to “slide on by” because of the time limits imposed.

It’s all great fun (and profit) for the lawyers of course, but it’s not very funny when it involves our money. Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions where to look for advise on this website?

NoeW
(Alaska)

Posts:25


12/29/2010 7:56 AM  
CAUTION: Thread Diversion ahead! ;)

"Does anyone have any ideas on how to get the attention of our State representatives regarding suspicions of fraudulent interactions between a homeowner association and the management company that is a hired contractor?"

Yes, contact the state agency responsible for regulating Business and Professional licensing.

However, suspicion is not going to cut it. They don't have an army of investigators so you'll need proof.

Your best bet is to take this proof to the membership and replce those responsible.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


12/29/2010 7:57 AM  
I've moved Norman's post to a new topic as this thread is getting very hard to follow.


http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/105030/view/topic/Default.aspx
NoeW
(Alaska)

Posts:25


12/29/2010 8:10 AM  
I'd suggest that happened on or about the 23rd, Dec.

Back to the thread subject:

The internet and all associated tools are just that. A tool.

Some are better able to implement this tool into their community's "toolbox" for any number of reasons than others.

What works for Sam may not work for Bob, Carol, Ted, or Alice.

If you don't see any benefit/opportunity to implement this into your community so be it.

I see no reason for the "third degree" line of "specific reason" questions to try and justify why it's different or works (better) for some and not others.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


12/29/2010 8:25 AM  
Noa,

My presentation might be better. However, I'm not trying to give a third degree interrogation to prove any point. I'm asking for specifics because Sam seems genuinely excited over this idea and I am either not seeing it the way it is being explained.

My interpretation from Sam's posting is that what he is proposing isn't any different then what my HOA is currently doing. My interpretation from Sam's posting also leads me to believe that I am missing something. Therefore, I asked for specifics so I can try to understand what I am missing.

Sam even posted that he would have a friend of his, who might be able to explain it better, look into posting info on this site.


I am asking specifics because I am trying to understand and learn.

Tim
RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164


12/29/2010 8:32 AM  
Sam,


You stated: "Please? How very easy and FREE it would be to let every Home Owner in the Country to: "HAVE A SAY IN THEIR HOA"! "



Don't members have a say now? Can't a member contact their board through meetings, telephone, mail, e-mail, in person?

Lets use my Association as an actual discussion point for what you are proposing.
My Association offers the following ways members can participate and they are free or inexpensive:

Open Board meetings - anyone may attend
Meetings are announced on our website and in our newsletter
Contact a Board member by e-mail -
E-mail addresses are posted on our website, in our newsletter and on mailings
Contact a Board member by telephone -
Telephone numbers are published in our newsletter
Contact a Board member by U.S. Mail -
Mailing , etc
***************************************************
Tim, I would concur completely with this post with only minor differences, most HOA's are governed (both good and bad) under your stated conditions. As you know, it seems that the solution to better management is education of the individual homeowners. A Board mandate in my opinion. It is a long hard difficult never ending process but given the attention it deserves and given a competent team and some interested homeowners, trust and confidence can be instilled. Has my association reached that level? Is is better than it was five years ago..........a success in this game and it will be just as hard to keep it on track as it was to get it on track. However a 7000 member association is a different animal and harder decisions must be made, heads will roll and dissent will raise it's ugly head and enemies will be made. Is there any choice? Big or small associations. change must come from within and time has to be considered. It will take months to turn a small association around, it will take years to turn a large association around, I doubt the courts will be enforcing anything, they may render decisions about narrow differences, but they are not going to right the ship in the long run.
StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89


12/29/2010 8:56 AM  
Why is it that when ideas to empower and get residents involved, as in using an HOA web site, some get so upset and critical. Of course a web site for community informational and admin tasks will not solve all problems and no one indicated it would but it can provide a means to access otherwise non-participating residents: that is good. The idea of a public forum or bulletin board for residents if used with restraint and courtesy can be effective especially to those who in the past tried to state their issues at a Board meeting only to be bullied/ignored by the Board or cut off from discussion after their 2-5 minutes of allowed time. The web site is not a lazy person's tool but "today's" tool and can be a very democratic, productive, effective, and cost cutting measure for all HOA's. Let's not fight ideas for inclusion but applaud them,
NoeW
(Alaska)

Posts:25


12/29/2010 9:01 AM  
OK, I'll admit it.

What is the crux of this discussion?

Shift voting form the BOD to the members? or Having a means to contact the BOD to express memberships desires.
RanaG
(Nevada)

Posts:12


12/29/2010 9:03 AM  
RobertR and those of you that give all the normal ways to contact the Board of Directors; you are 100% correct. BUT, and here is the big BUT, I am sure that many other HOAs have the same issue that we have in our HOA in Henderson, NV. our membership is 7,000 plus homes and we too can contact our board of 7 directors via these ways but the response is silence. We can go to meetings and speak for our 2 minutes at the podium, ask questions, the response is silence. I will quote one former director and this quote follows with each Board, "we may have to listen to them speak but we don't have to do what they say". When meeting up with a director by chance, the exchange will be polite but nothing will come of it because once it is taken back to the other 6, the resident concerns then fall on deaf ears.

We, the residents that have spoken out have been labeled "malconts" Many have written on community blogs telling us to move if we don't like the way things are run. The usual response would be fix things at the next election. Well, great idea. Each time we have candidates willing to step up the only way to get an honest message out and past the Board censorship machine is to spend a tidy sum. I tried, $3,000 later I fell short several hundred votes. A retired California Senator tried and was desemated with vile publicity on the blog by the husband of a board member. I can only speak about my community of course, but the death grip this group has here is unbelievable and in my opinion can only be broken by a major overhaul in HOA law. More and more I read about "bully boards" and now Jonathan Friedrich has posted his HOA Hall Of Shame at www.hoa123.com which was picked up by our local new station. It will blow your minds what some of these boards will do to control. Tim, you sound like a nice a logical guy, your community is lucky to have you.
StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89


12/29/2010 9:08 AM  
How we look for reasons why something won't work when we are unfamiliar with it such as using the HOA web site for tasks previously completed via traditional means. There are problem finders and problem solvers. I like the idea of test driving any community outreach and that goes for conducting some/most HOA meetings and business and votes via the web or in a combination with activity conducted physically at the Board meeting.

Web sites cost nearly nothing, and in some cases nothing, with the help of volunteers and community sponsors. If anyone wants to argue costs of the web site, well the cost savings from using the web site to complete previous paper based tasks will more than pay for the site costs.

StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89


12/29/2010 9:13 AM  
Please keep in mind with the Internet use, we are not talking about all Americans, all American neighborhoods, all social-economic categories, but we are talking about residents in an HOA and if you live in an HOA and the geographic area doesn't have Internet services then you might be living in an HOA in Siberia. Also, when in an HOA with Internet service, the transition plan to the Internet/web site should include servicing those without access in their home such as a general use pc/wireless access in the clubhouse or product a minimal amount of paper based services. Let's not look at the exception but the rule and address exceptions as they come along
NoeW
(Alaska)

Posts:25


12/29/2010 9:13 AM  
What does postage cost to 7000 members?

$0.44 x 7000= $3080 OUCH!
RanaG
(Nevada)

Posts:12


12/29/2010 9:22 AM  
Ah Stan how I wish you could talk to our Communications Committee, right NormanM. They took charge of our web site and it's message board. Now the web site has been redesigned and it quite good but the message board has been taken down because they didn't like the fact that we were having un-censored discussion. The saddest part is that many people in the community used that message board to simply exchange information such as; "who is a good dog groomer", where can I get my glasses repaired" etc. I run a forum for the community and created a special section for posting of these things now but since it is "private" and not owned by the association they will not allow me to purchase advertising in OUR community magazine to let the 7,000 HOMES KNOW THAT MY SITE IS THERE. I do have many readers and it is there as a community service but my posters are free to say what they wish and many are not complimentary to the board. Suffice to say, the board would love the site to vanish.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


12/29/2010 9:22 AM  
This thread is all over the place.

I would propose that it be sorted out into their own topics Since I am interested in the statements Sam made, I will be starting a new topic thread for that.


It can be found here:

http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/105047/view/topic/Default.aspx


TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


12/29/2010 9:47 AM  
Rana,

If NV doesn't have a law similar to Virginia's, you might want to propose to your State representative to support a bill to create that requirement. I also believe it would fall into line with your current laws we previously discussed about having opposing views.

The VA law I am talking about states:


55-510.2. Distribution of information by members.

The board of directors shall establish a reasonable, effective, and free method, appropriate to the size and nature of the association, for lot owners to communicate among themselves and with the board of directors regarding any matter concerning the association.

(2001, c. 715.)


Tim
RanaG
(Nevada)

Posts:12


12/29/2010 10:00 AM  
Great idea Tim, thank you. I will be in Carson City to speak to anyone who will hear me at the opening of the session 2011 and will try that adding "unimpeaded/uncensored". The biggest problem we have is censorship. I wish I knew what the Board is so afraid of. I have said so often that open communications can solve so many issues without rancor yet the last three Boards we have had just refuse, under the direction of THIER attorney that we pay for, to have open conversation. They just don't seem to understand that when you keep slamming a door in someone's face all you do is make them very, very angry. It will never solve a problem. Sitting down and talking over the issue WILL solve the problem if done so calmly and with kindness and rationale.
StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89


12/29/2010 3:54 PM  
Ok, a reality check to those who offered a list of how HOA's are open and democratic:

Open Board meetings - anyone may attend,
Board members can shut off comments and bully less than agressive residents, your issues sidestepped and putoff
Meetings are announced on our website and in our newsletter
Yes we know when the meetings occur, it is what happens at the meetings
Contact a Board member by e-mail -
You can write all the emails and letters you wish but whether you get a response is a different story and the norm,
of course a tactic of a dysfunctional Board member is to say they never received it
E-mail addresses are posted on our website, in our newsletter and on mailings
ditto to prior comment
Contact a Board member by telephone -
ditto to prior comment and try to get a straight answer to a question, and getting a return call, huh
Telephone numbers are published in our newsletter
ditto
Contact a Board member by U.S. Mail -
ditto and if these means of contacting and getting responses works so well why do so many complain
about non-available Board members
Mailing address is on every mailing, in our newsletter, and on our website
Ditto
Contact a Board member in person - we all live in the community
The whole question is not even as much contact but someone to listen and not just hear
Although specific addresses are not published in our documents - they can be
Repeat
General Membership Meetings - Open to all, getting repetitive
Meetings are announced on our website, in mailings, in our newsletter and
on entrance signs. said this before
Using Website - We have an open forum section
This is a great tool for residents but ours is censored and as mentioned on this site I am not alone
I applaud this tool and have seen it work for the residents
Forums are mentioned in newsletters, clicked from our website, and can be
googled, binged, yahoo - any search engine. repeated, same as above
Instituted directed vs. general proxies - This way the members who can not attend a general meeting can direct the board how to cast a vote for them (vs. just giving the board an opportunity to vote how the board wants). Proxies
are accepted via mail, in person and by e-mail. Additionally, on issues we believe are a
hot topic for the community we do mailings with self addressed stamped return envelopes.
Could be a good manner to gain resident involvement but is complex and may require a change in the by laws
which is a different topic




StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89


12/29/2010 3:57 PM  
In Colorado, the guidelines encourage use of multiple media for disseminating information and that includes the Internet/web site, the term notification and how to complete is a very flexible issue, our HOA does provide notification of meetings, for example, on a sign by the gate, on the web, and in the newsletter
StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89


12/29/2010 4:04 PM  
Just a quick comment to our Nevada victims,

I've tried to get changes to our State of Colorado HOA laws/bills and basically forget about it: the real estate industry and developers will not put anything into law that involves enforcement and penalities.

Question, your Nevada so called law, does it state what happens to a Board if they don't comply with a specific requirement? Does it say how to file a complaint that will be pursued and by who: normally you can file an informational complaint and their it ends unless you fund a Court action.

Again, if you are Colorado your your by-laws, State laws/bills are empty and mostly unenforceable unless you have the financial means to put together a great case with lawyers and can sustain the loss.
StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89


12/29/2010 4:24 PM  
RanaG,

Your comments are based on reality and experience and some offer a glowing report on what every HOA Board is suppose to be and it is to communicate and act like your comments are false because the ideal world doesn't match reality. There is a reason HOA's get a bad name: they layout all this democratic, feel-good, accountability environment but when people move in they find abusive and sometimes corrupt Boards and then find out their by laws and State laws are empty.

These ugly people who tell those who want accountability to "love it or leave it", just move out if you will, are the problem and don't believe differently. I find most activist not goof balls simply arguing about the color of fence so try to brush off the hate. I've been through it and it is not nice but in the end facts work in discussions but maybe not in getting change.

The key to change in an HOA is resident involvement and education and then they can make a decision and term limits that will rid your Board of at least the current arrogance and open up an opportunity for somebody new.

Rana the personality of most long serving Board members is that of a bully, someone who finds their identify via the Board, and someone who places self importance upon themself. I would not say "all" Board members are like this but there sure is no shortage of this type and especially in Boards with no term limits. This personality that makin es the person think no one can replace them is what makes dealing with Boards so difficult.

So hang in there, don't move, and work the system patiently and don't give too much of a chance of changing the opinion of the enabling residents but new residents are the hope as well as those long term knowledgeable and unhappy residents.
StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89


12/29/2010 4:30 PM  
Here is the comment that is missing, several mailing to a 7000 home community will be about $2800 postage plus paper costs, do that twice and you are near $6,000. So for all those stary eyed folks who say that is a great solution, well not everyone can just throw that money around.

The reality, your HOA can send out two mailings or more to support their position and refute yours and the cost: the homeowners pay the cost and do you really think they care about how much of other's folks money they spend.

You lose homeowner in the mailing war and can't win
RanaG
(Nevada)

Posts:12


12/29/2010 4:35 PM  
We were not asking for a special mailing for our opinion, we requested permission to place our opinion to what (let us say) the President said in May in the June edition of the monthly magazine. In past years, during the election cycle, candidates were given 2 minutes to give a speech on air. It is no longer allowed in case they state "an opinion" just in case someone then wants to give their point of view. Keep in mind we own the station, it is on our property and airs nothing other than our own programming. Control-contol-control
StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89


12/29/2010 4:39 PM  
We also, and I hope I was clear, have a web site but forget about an open discussion forum: the Board controls and that is that. We developed our own web site and we threatened with a law suit via the HOA lawyer: the basis for the law suit was empty but we ended up taking it down as the HOA would have spent our HOA dues to sue us.

We now have two web sites we use to vent frustrations and are careful not to mention our dysfuntional HOA by name.
www.dysfunctinalhoa.com and http://denver.yourhub.com/HighlandsRanch/Stories?userid=85311

I try not to post web sites in my postings but this may give you an ideas of the type of things we do that can't be posted on our web site. Yes, this whole thing of censorship works well for Boards. I must say I've seen HOA web sites that are not politically used to promote the Board and allow open discussion in a chat room type of area, the reason these HOA's allow this is the personality of the Board members who are not insecure and open to criticism and problemm resolution.

StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89


12/29/2010 4:45 PM  
Rand,

another form of cesorship my HOA uses is to preclude any panel discussion on issues when we hold a meet the candidates meeting, we had this planned last year and when everyone showed up they sent in the Board and said that no Q&A would be conducted in a panel setting, which was planned, with candidates, people were pissed to say the least, and this ended by residents having a cup of coffee and nothing got done, so this year they post in the newsletter that they will not have any panel disucussions and only a coffe and donuts meeting for people to visit with each other, they therefore dodge any open debate and questioning of candidates and issues, how sad
RanaG
(Nevada)

Posts:12


12/30/2010 10:13 AM  
Stan, after reading your latest post please let me start your new year out with a hearty laugh. All of you living in HOA hell, this is for you too. Visit www.HOA1234.com and take a look at Jonathan Friedrich's HOA Hall of Shame. There is one president of an HOA that made the local news from Jonathan's latest segment who, when new people want to run for the board so they can replace him, find some obscure reason to fine them so that they will no longer be a "member in good standing". When he was interviewed by the local news the reporter asked if he was aware that he too had a pending fine from the real estate division of $5,000. He ...get ready... stuck his tongue out at the reporter and said, that is different, they don't know what they are talking about, I do. It all went down hill from there but it is very funny to watch..SAD BUT TRUE AND DAMN FUNNY. His residents have been trying to oust him for ages and cannot and he is the ONLY BOARD MEMBER.
StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89


12/30/2010 3:27 PM  
Thanks for reference to a web site I think I can relate to. Let me refer a similar comment I received this week from a member of our Board after we audited the HOA and found disbursements with no invoices, disbursements greater in amount that cost of goods/services, income turned over to a private party who claimed to be doing some work for the past 8 years but there are no receipts and the work claimed was miles apart from the funds receives, accounting entries with lines drawn from on journal entry to the other (by our Treasurer with a doctorate in accounting), and free ad space given to a private party (all others pay) with no good explanation other than, get this and they are proud of it, "this is the way we conduct business, we trust each other and why anyone would challenge that trust is simply a trouble maker". I then asked them if they pay their TV cable bill, credit cards, or electric bill without an invoice or pay more than the amount due out of the kindness of their heart, they said "hell no, why would we do that", these people have no clue when operating in their tower of power and using other's (residents) money in such a reckless manner.

thanks again and keep posting your findings and fun stories
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Page 2 of 2 << < 12
Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Special Meeting-voting rights



Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.







General Legal Notice:  The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com.  Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship.  Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.  HOATalk is not a licensed attorney, CPA, tax advisor, financial advisor or any other licensed professional.  HOATalk accepts ads from sponsors but does not verify sponsor qualifications nor endorse/guarantee any sponsor's product or service.
Legal Notice For Messages Posted by Sponsoring Attorneys: This message has been prepared by the sponsoring attorney for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send any sponsoring attorney confidential information unless you speak with the sponsoring attorney or an attorney from the sponsoring attorney’s firm and get authorization to send that information to them. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in the firm of the sponsoring attorney. Sponsoring attorneys that post messages here are licensed to practice law in a specific state or states as indicated in their message signature or sponsor’s profile page. (NOTE: A ‘sponsoring attorney’ is an attorney that is a HOATalk.com official sponsor and is identified as such in the posted message or on our sponsor page.)

Copyright HOA Talk.com, A Service of Community123 LLC ( Homeowners Association Discussions )   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement