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Subject: Suing the HOA board
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Author Messages
JonD1


Posts:0


01/13/2013 8:42 PM  
Posted By MikeR15 on 01/13/2013 5:07 PM
My father served in Korea (187th Airborne RCT), was badly wounded and highly decorated fulfilling his oath to preseve and defend the Constitution...

If these cowardly Quislings think I will surrender these protections becaused I was suckered into buying a piece of land somewhere in the US of A...

Well I have one hand on my baseball bat...and the other writing a legal brief...

I am willing to use either to honor my father and everyone else like him...




I guess dear old Dad never told you he thought to much of you. Still trying to please him and make him proud huh???

Honoring your Father by filing suit against an HOA and that really makes sense. Was Daddy in Korea because some HOA was issusing fines?

You Mike have gone off the deep end. Now after claiming this crusade of yours was for life and liberty you believe "HONORS" your Father.

People served their country, put on uniforms, traveled overseas willing to give their lives. Many came back injured some never came back. I had two friends who served in Korea one was a POW till he escaped.

IMO your suggestion that somehow your lawsuit is in any way simlar to the sacrifices some people made is a disgrace.

You Mike are not some sort of war hero. Never were, never will be. And I would double check that "bat" you are clutching in your hand my guess with all your excitement you might be pulling something else. LMAO

All show, mouth and little else.

JonD1


Posts:0


01/13/2013 9:09 PM  
Posted By MikeR15 on 01/13/2013 5:46 PM
And to the putz who writes....Mike, Mike Mike...EAT @#%$!

Go move to Cuba or the Soviet Union and write Stalin,Stalin Stalin....and see how long it takes before you are lined up in some ditch before the NKVD...

HOAs and their private governance are a pathetic joke to every American who fought and died to preserve our Constitutional Democracy.





Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike just trying to make sure I have your attention.

Your case has not been settled. The court has not rendered a decision.
But you come to this site and now you post one after another in support or response to yourself. Little early for the victory parade Mike.

I know being the anti-HOA superhero can require restraint because its important for people hear ( even those that don't really care) just how well you did and all of the 10 or 11 who support you can pat you on the head. My big boy Mike......................

But let go of your "bat" for awhile and come back to Earth.

I will reserve judgment until the fat lady sings. This much I do know. Will your suit change the face of HOAs across America? Pipedream.

Will it change laws in Ma.? Who knows. Certainly not you.

Will you be awarded the assets of the Board members inclduing their homes? I doubt that.

Will this make you a hero? No.
Will this prove you are a real man? NO
Will it serve to make you equal to those who fought for this country? NO
Will this make you feel good about yourself? NO

After all is said and done the image in the mirror you see each day will be the same.

MIKE MIKE MIKE I have followed this crazy path you have taken us on. The quotes from Churchhill as if they pertained to HOAs. The flag waving simpleminded phrasings you repeat over and over again to yourself as if they could convince anyone else but you.

The MILLIONS you see following you when "almost" a dozen show up in reality. The warped connection to some freedom fight when in fact filing a lawsuit comes no where near serving in time of war.

You are on a fantasy mission in a fantasy world. Truth is my guess you are a sad figure with an unhappy life trying to prove your own selfworth.
Trying to fill what you see as Dad's BIG shoes with your little feet.

Those shoes more than likely don't fit and never will.

You come to this site, bragging and preaching to people who would rather not listen. Sure sign of mental dysfuction. Attempting to gain the support of people who have come to see you for what you are.

Speaking for myself. That would be a clown. Like in the circus. Not some hero, not some patriot, not some historical figure who fought the good fight. Just a loud mouth, simpleminded, ignorant clown.













SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3615


01/13/2013 9:31 PM  

You are on a fantasy mission in a fantasy world......... Sure sign of mental dysfuction.


With all the news lately, Sandyhook, Batman movie shooting, etc... its best not to make fun of people with mental illness. Its just another illness. You wouldn't make fun of people with cancer would you?
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


01/14/2013 1:09 AM  
The case is under advisement and this is some kind of win? Seriously ALL cases go under advisement after they are filed even the ones without any merit. It just means they recognize the paperwork you filed nothing more. It's like "thanks we will take it under advicement and get back with you". It's not close to a victory. Just what has to happen so the other side has a chance to respond. Respond they will.

Mike your now just even responding to your own posts...Your desparate for attention. I feel sorry for you. You have no grip on reality anymore. No one can help you anymore. You are going to find out all the damage you intend to inflict on others will just come back onto you. Like my aunt told me...Never point your finger at somebody because there are 4 fingers pointed back at you...

Former HOA President
KevinK7
(Florida)

Posts:1343


01/14/2013 5:30 AM  
Posted By MikeR15 on 01/13/2013 4:53 PM
Well yea, you missed the Virginia Supremem court ruling in Gilman...fines are a governmental power and can not be delegated to private entities..

And the Rhode Island Supreme Court in Foley...where they ruled that the act enabling condos to fine...an unconstitutional delegation of police and judicial power..

And hopefully in Mass...the same damn thing...only I go further...I ask the court to recognize the whole "banana republic" aspect of HOAs.




The problem with all that stuff is that you are in Massachusetts and the courts may or may not decide to look at those cases from Rhode Island or Virginia. Also, the court may say that since you have decided to enter into a covenant restricted development, the issue with them altering the ballots may not be viewed as a state issue but as a corporate issue - a breach of contract between you and the corporation. I can only see it becoming a broader issue if the way the laws were written unfairly burden the population, but good luck with that because as you have stated before, the lobbyists have their control over the legislature (and believe it or not they have also infiltrated the judicial branch - http://pvtgov.wordpress.com/2009/08/09/az-cai-lawyers-appointed-as-judge-pro-tems/).

Basically, you are making a huge gamble and having faith in the court system can be very dangerous. You may not be familiar with my posts but I have dealt with a rogue HOA before. To sum it up they were another subdivision's HOA that decided to rewrite neighboring C&Rs and force non-members into their association and pay "mandatory maintenance assessments" as well as other things. When a homeowner took them to court the HOA used a lot of tactics to delay the process and the first judge ruled in favor of the HOA. The judge essentially took the word of the HOA at face value. The HOA's argument hinged on a broad interpretation of some corporate law and seemed to apply condo-associates statutes and case law for their situation. The judge wasn't having any of it.The homeowner proceeded and eventually the second judge had a greater understanding of the situation and a more in depth look at the matter. The point is despite how much evidence there was against the HOA (improperly notarized documents, extremely incriminating board minutes, the law), a judge still wound up ruling in their favor.

That is why unless you have enough money to fight this thing (and remember the HOA can levy funds from the membership to fight you), things may not look as good as you think.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


01/14/2013 5:51 AM  
Posted By MikeR15 on 01/13/2013 12:39 PM
Hey! My case was just taken under advisement...no oral argument necessary!




Under advisement without oral arguments, in my opinion, should be a concern. A judge takes places a case "under advisement" prior to issuing a ruling. It may indicate that there was enough documentation in the initial paperwork that the issue is clear cut. It might also mean that the judge needs to do research or it could mean that the judge simply didn't want to hear any bickering and deemed it to be more expedient to determine the case without oral arguments.

Regardless of the reasoning behind it, the court not hearing oral arguments means that neither side can be sure that the court understood their side or the documentation provided. They can only hope for the best and typically the best in a court case is 50/50.

From a Mass. Law forum:

Often times judges have such a high case volume that some times if they either need more time to research the question of law, or need more time to thoroughly look at all of the documents and supporting evidence(this could be a complicated case and most times Judges get a case and may need more time to review a specific file). There are many other reasons however, you do have the right to check into the case or have your attorney check into the case. I do not believe this is being done deliberately. Sometimes judges are visiting Judges and are only at a certain court one or more days a week or month.
MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


01/14/2013 6:05 AM  
Yes, much of what the court does is a mystery.

It is just a matter or waiting and seeing at this point.

MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


01/14/2013 6:14 AM  
Kevin,

I am doing this all myself, and have spent only a fraction of the money compared to having a lawyer do it.

The cases regarding HOA fines were both State Supreme Court cases. These are more than acceptable authority to cite if your state has no comparable cases.

One of the judges in my case just reversed a case here....where the HOA foreclosed and sold a residents house to collect fines....FOR FEEDING THE BIRDS....OFF the property of the HOA! (Warren Claranton condomium vs. Jose Cotto)

Hopefully this court is ready to just strip these assinine HOAs of this power completely...but we will see.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


01/14/2013 6:33 AM  
How many bet here that when Mike loses he will stop posting? Or he will post he's starting a new court quest with a different angle because of one of the judges statements he feels was in his favor? Anyone? Anyone?

Someone also needs to learn how the governement works and stop using other states as references...It doesn't matter what one state decides over another. Each state is a individual entity. So laws in Virginia aren't laws in Massechusetts. They aren't going to be the law of the land either. Just a basic government 101 course lesson there...

Court isn't all that complicated if you know what your doing. It is pretty simple and straightforward for those of us who understand it. Those who don't end up losing and cutting off their nose for doing it. If you go to court and it's becoming complicated, then you have done something wrong.

Former HOA President
JonD1


Posts:0


01/14/2013 7:13 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/14/2013 6:33 AM
How many bet here that when Mike loses he will stop posting? Or he will post he's starting a new court quest with a different angle because of one of the judges statements he feels was in his favor? Anyone? Anyone?

Someone also needs to learn how the governement works and stop using other states as references...It doesn't matter what one state decides over another. Each state is a individual entity. So laws in Virginia aren't laws in Massechusetts. They aren't going to be the law of the land either. Just a basic government 101 course lesson there...

Court isn't all that complicated if you know what your doing. It is pretty simple and straightforward for those of us who understand it. Those who don't end up losing and cutting off their nose for doing it. If you go to court and it's becoming complicated, then you have done something wrong.





I am not sure what Mike will do IF he loses outright and completly. If so IMO he is in way to deep, pride and the need to prove himself might not allow him to give up the fight. No doubt like always someone will be to blame for any loss he suffers because he is always in the right. IN his mind at least.

I just love how he now brags about saving $$$$ by doing it all himself.
Never mind his first suit in which he used a lawyer oaid that lawyer who he claims he is stil friendly with $40,000 his buddy took every penny and then withdrew from the case and in the end Mike lost.

Now Mike is winging it on his own because 1) he doesn't want to throw good money in after bad 2) after his lawyer withdrew no one else will take the case. Either way representing yourself in court with only the knowledge provided in a $250 mail order law degree like Mike got is a road to failure.

Google "Mike Reardon suing your HOA" and read the articles and more importantly the comments ( delusional rantings) Mike makes. Most times he is speaking to himself alone as if the masses have gathered to hear his words of wisdom. He has created quite a record of HOA hatred for himself. Setting aside the fact he says he owns 2 such properties!



JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


01/14/2013 3:35 PM  
Me thinks Mike needs an adjustment in his meds.....
JonD1


Posts:0


01/14/2013 5:27 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 01/14/2013 3:35 PM
Me thinks Mike needs an adjustment in his meds.....





YES!!! Either take double the amount or 1/2 the amount and see how that changes your view of the world......................
MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


01/14/2013 8:11 PM  
Well folks, if anyone has come to this site to research whether or not to sue your HOA..

I couldn't give you a better example of why (AND WHO) you should slam with a lawsuit.

Your board of directos of your HOA is always comprised of unqualified, amatuer volunteer morons who will not hesitate to personally attack you..when you dare to suggest that they are...well...idiots.

They only thing they will ever understand is a stiff bill to be paid to you and your attorney.

So YES...sue these QUISLING turncoat neighbors IN COURT...

And I promise that VERY SOON...the courts are going to recognize what a terrible joke on property owning Americans these organizations are.

MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


01/14/2013 8:30 PM  
Still don't get it and never will...

Former HOA President
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


01/15/2013 12:18 AM  
Mighty Mike, a legend in his own mind.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
LarryB13
(Arizona)

Posts:4099


01/15/2013 12:57 AM  
Posted By MikeR15 on 01/14/2013 8:11 PM
Well folks, if anyone has come to this site to research whether or not to sue your HOA..

I couldn't give you a better example of why (AND WHO) you should slam with a lawsuit.

Your board of directos of your HOA is always comprised of unqualified, amatuer volunteer morons who will not hesitate to personally attack you..when you dare to suggest that they are...well...idiots.




Amen!

Posted By MikeR15 on 01/14/2013 8:11 PM
They only thing they will ever understand is a stiff bill to be paid to you and your attorney.





In most states the directors are pretty much immune from any personal liability, so no matter what the tab comes to, the insurance and the owners, but not the directors, foot the bill. Losing a lawsuit teaches them nothing.

There has been a bill introduced several times in the Arizona legislature to make the directors personally liable for all expenses if the HOA loses a lawsuit. A great idea but it dies in committee each time it is introduced.
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


01/15/2013 1:22 AM  
Ah yes, the poor incompetent uneducated volunteer HOA directors who for the most part keep their HOA's chugging along quite nicely. As opposed to the "competent" educated professional directors that destroyed the economy all while getting richer. Yeah that's exactly what HOA's need.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


01/15/2013 3:03 AM  
Posted By LarryB13 on 01/15/2013 12:57 AM

There has been a bill introduced several times in the Arizona legislature to make the directors personally liable for all expenses if the HOA loses a lawsuit. A great idea but it dies in committee each time it is introduced.




I can certainly see it dying in committee. I'm more concerned that it was introduced.

If such a bill is passed, how many members would be willing to "volunteer" to serve on the board? I know that I wouldn't.

MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


01/15/2013 5:45 AM  
That would be a terrific bill.

The only folks that wouldn't "volunteer"....would be the sociopaths who can smell when someone was "on to them" a mile away.

And our courts are FINALLY starting to be "on to them".
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


01/15/2013 6:14 AM  
For anyone who may be interested, here are links to those AZ bills that died in committee:

AZ HB2455 would have held the directors directly personably liable for member attorney fees

AZ SB1240 would have awarded triple damages against HOA for selective enforcement actions

AZ HB2731 would have held directors personally liable for lawsuits not made in good faith
JonD1


Posts:0


01/15/2013 8:15 AM  
Posted By MikeR15 on 01/14/2013 8:11 PM
Well folks, if anyone has come to this site to research whether or not to sue your HOA..

I couldn't give you a better example of why (AND WHO) you should slam with a lawsuit.

Your board of directos of your HOA is always comprised of unqualified, amatuer volunteer morons who will not hesitate to personally attack you..when you dare to suggest that they are...well...idiots.

They only thing they will ever understand is a stiff bill to be paid to you and your attorney.

So YES...sue these QUISLING turncoat neighbors IN COURT...

And I promise that VERY SOON...the courts are going to recognize what a terrible joke on property owning Americans these organizations are.






Mike Mike Mike do the HOAs you see in your dreams got you down today???

Nightmares no doubt......

So where to begin.......you never came to this site to "research whether or not to sue you HOA" as you now claim today. You all ready sued them once and lost. Now your second suit has already been filed so what might a know-it-all like you research from a bunch of idiots like us???

You have your high school degree and a mail order degree in law for which you paid $250 that in your mind makes you an expert.

Now all the fancy quotes and 25 cent words might impress people of low IQ bu in the real world rational thought and logic to your beliefs comes in much more handy.

To be clear you are NOT some patriot, you are not waging a war for freedom, the Constitution or the American way. In my opinion you are litle more than comic relief. Like the nutty uncle every family has who just never acts or sems quite right.

You came to this site to pound on your sunken chest, do battle, and foam at the mouth. The flyer on the op of the main page of this site " a positive place for volunteers and HOA Board members to share ideas and thoughts etc. etc. etc......" you certainly don't volunteer your time to benefit your community and positive well I am sure than is not a word most people would use to describe you.

I really do enjoy though all the macho, tough guy, wanna be bad ass phrases you like to throw in though slam, bang, pow, slap down sort of like those old Bat Man and Robin shows. But it does tend to show your failed and pathetic to prove yourself and the importance of your actions. Mike despite what you migh like to ell yourself what you have done matters very little and it only really matters to you. Win, lose, or draw everyone's life will go on and your fantasy will fall way short of making you some super hero.

"Your board of directos of your HOA is always comprised of unqualified, amatuer volunteer morons who will not hesitate to personally attack you..when you dare to suggest that they are...well...idiots."

What simpleminded outside reality fantasy are you living now? Limited folks like yourself always deal in absolutes. ALWAYS as if in the entire US there is not one qualified HOA Board member. Just to hard to think anyhing migh be differen than YOU believe.

Just to double check you got through high school? And you bought online a law course for $250. That makes YOU qualified for what??? To judge people you have never known?

Quisling Quisling Quisling Quisling Quisling tha must be little Mike's word for the year. Look everyone Mike has a new word and just can't get through he day withou finding many opportunities to use it.

I have a word. Just for today.

Clown Clown Clown Clown.... And it fits you Mike much better than Quisling might apply to HOA Board members.... Just sayin'

Earth to Mike, Earth to Mike are you out there?????????????




MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


01/15/2013 9:02 AM  
JonD1, did you miss the fact they are taking the case under advisement under no ORAL argument? That means that Mike can not spit out in front of a judge his attitude or rights as an American citizen? Seems his whole case is going to be based on FACTS and WRITTEN facts at that. Meaning that his HOA documents are going to be the deciding factor in if he wins or loses this case and NOT his oral presentations.

This means the judge is going to have to read the existing HOA documents of which Mr. Mike has never defined or read/quoted in any of his posts. I don't even think he quoted any of them in his case he has submitted except for maybe an diatribe of his emotional feelings on the entire matter. Hence why the judge is NOT taking any oral arguments under consideration. The judge is going for the written facts.

So Mike's desire of presenting his whole case and exposing his HOA opinion to the whole world through court is not to be. The judge won't hear it and does NOT have to. The whole case is now being judged based on actual existing laws and rules for the state of which Mike resides. So all of his gruff and bluff is for not.

I feel really sorry for Mike and just know he's never going to be really happy in life. He's always going to be a victim or know a victim. He victimizes himself in the end but unfortunately it's not without hurting innoncent people around him. Can you sue your HOA? Sure you can all day long till sunday. That's the facts. Should you do it and will hurt everyone including yourself to do it? It sure will. You just have to recognize the fact that you are truly suing yourself and your neighbors and willing to take that risk/pain/damage if you want to pursue. That is all in the end.

Former HOA President
JonD1


Posts:0


01/15/2013 9:25 AM  
I would LOVE to read the paperwork Mike submitted I am sure it would be good for a laugh. But he would NEVER make it available because he knows it doesn't hold water.

Mike thinks he fools people with his limited vocabulary and more limted thought process. When in fact his quotes and repetitive nature shows a limited closed mind at work.

Mike sees himself as some great thinker who with a mail order legal course can now equal the abilities of people with law degrees. Mike sees himself as superior when his dysfunction does in fact keep him near the botom of the barrel in the ability to think things through.

Yes it is quite possible Mike will NEVER get to make his speech in court. The one he has planned to deliver in his dreams at night. The Constition, the Civil Rights Movement, those who have served our nation in times of war hey all have nothing on Mighty Mike the HOA HERO!

I just have to wonder what he will do with the costume, tights and all, he had planned to wear in court slapping down HOAs around the world. While holding his "MAGIC" BAT in his hand!

The 5 minutes of fame MIKE has made for himself are just about over.
Ten years, $40,000 and countless hours down the drain for what????
Is MIKE geting revenge? Will he destroy anyone or anything? Only in his mind.

Will he keeping foaming at the mouth. My guess, YES because in the end that's all he has.................

Sitting in a chair in the corner of some small room with some small mind doing the "institution rock" and he can be heard muttering the words "QUISLINGSS, QUISLINGS, QUISLINGS, DON'T YOU SEE THEM..........no MIke only you..........



TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


01/15/2013 10:43 AM  
Ignoring the "this for that" name calling that has gone on, lets take a quick review:

Mike, by his own admission, came to this site to alert "others who might visit this post of a movement to strip most of the power from HOA boards." I do believe that, based on simple internet searches, there is a perception that COA/HOA Boards have more authority (power) than most members realize. This is typically fostered by the media sensationalizing those issues that make all of us cringe. Unfortunately, misery loves company and bad news sells better than good news. Therefore, this perception isn't likely to go away anytime soon.

Mike, from his perception and experiences has stated that "There are no Open Meeting Laws, Election Laws or chain of custody of ballot laws that apply." For Mikes State, Mass., he is stating a fact. Unfortunately, Mike appears to have concluded that this fact applies to all States. That conclusion is simply wrong. As we know, State laws vary and HOA/COA governing documents within a State vary. However, this is Mike's perception based on his perspective and it's difficult for many to view things from different perspectives. Again, Mike's statement is true for Mass. and that fact should be taken into account.

Mike's final straw appears, based on his posts, to be a valid complaint. His Board approved that a non-vote would be considered in favor of an amendment to his governing documents allowing his Association to fine violators. I do believe that everyone on this site concurs that a non-vote is not to be considered a yea vote. Depending on the language used in the proposal, it may have the affect of supporting or opposing the proposal but it should not be counted as a yea or a nay. Therefore, Mike does have a valid issue with his Association.

Unfortunately, Mike generalizes all Associations and all Board members into his experiences. This is certainly not an uncommon thing for people to do as our own experiences do influence our perspective of the issues. This generalization of considering all Board members jerks, just because the majority of his board appears to be jerks, causes most of us (myself included) to go on the defensive (another thing that isn't uncommon). When this happens it's difficult to hear the issues because personalities are now being louder than the actual issue.

Going back to the issue, Mike has indicated that he prefers not to participate within his Association: "I will NEVER attend one of these rigged meetings. Virtually every homeowner I know who was made aware of this in my community wants NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with this disgraceful organization or the . . . to actually record the fraudulent manipulation of their ballots in their own minutes. We will not show up and dignify this corrupt process, or submit to even being in the same room with these folks."

Since Mike will not participate in the process, he only has one recourse to address his issue - the court system.

From my perspective from serving on my Board and based on info contained in Mike's posts, all of this could have been avoided. Even with the Board incorrectly considering non-votes as a yea vote, imagine what would have occurred if the membership who didn't respond actually participated and cast a nay vote. The proposal to fine would have failed and Mike wouldn't be costing himself and his association time, energy and money in fighting the issue.

Mike, I've said this before - I do wish you luck. Based on what facts you have provided, I believe you have a good chance at winning. However, if you crowded the facts by allowing your emotions and generalized perspective into your written arguments, you may have cost yourself the case. As I said before, it's not uncommon for individuals (or judges) to go on the defensive and lose sight of the facts.

Hopefully, win or lose, you and your neighbors will actually start to participate in the running of your Association. If you chose to continue to not participate then the affect of your decision is to allow those who you disagree with to continue to make the decisions that affect your life.








MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


01/15/2013 5:58 PM  
Jeezz! You really don't get it!

Homeowners will NEVER want to "participate" in these HOA things.

The entire premise....that some neighbors will be elevated in power over others...is reprehensible to normal homeowners

Certainly they will pay their dues...but anything beyond that...they just want to be left alone!
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


01/15/2013 10:07 PM  
Posted By MikeR15 on 01/15/2013 5:58 PM
Certainly they will pay their dues...but anything beyond that...they just want to be left alone!



Mike I don't know how much of what you posted is true but for the sake of argument let's say it's all true. If so this is exactly why any of the things you allege could happen.

Listen, don't you realize if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. 󞩩 C. Mcfadden Serial xxvi.]


All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. [Edmund Burke]

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


01/16/2013 2:58 AM  
Posted By MikeR15 on 01/15/2013 5:58 PM
Jeezz! You really don't get it!

Homeowners will NEVER want to "participate" in these HOA things.




Actually Mike, I do get it and I think you do to.

For various reasons you have chosen not to participate in the running of your Association.

This choice results in allowing those who will participate to have the authority to make decisions that affect your life.

When you don't agree with the decisions that were made, you complain and (since you have the means) bring legal action against those who chose to participate.

Had you made a different choice and chose to participate, you may have prevented those decisions from being made.



Posted By MikeR15 on 01/15/2013 5:58 PM
Certainly they will pay their dues...but anything beyond that...they just want to be left alone!




This choice, which I agree is rampant within most Associations, is called apathy.




Mike, since I believe that your statement of wanting to be left alone is truly the crux of most membership apathy, let me ask you a simple question:
The deed restrictions typically require the Association to maintain common areas and provide specific services, what is your solution for complying with those provisions?


MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


01/16/2013 4:07 AM  
I personally prefer a HOA in many ways but not all. My HOA provided me lawncare so I didn't have to mow. Garbage dumptsters for garbage pickup 2 times a week. Access to a pool in the summer. I could rent out a clubhouse for parties cheaply. Sometimes receive repairs or maintenance. A way to make sure others who didn't pay their fair share to be collected against. All of which if I choose just to be a member and NOT participate on my board cost us just $50 a month. I CHOOSE to be a board member so that I could make sure those things continued to get done. Otherwise if no one participated there would have been NONE of those items at all. A HOA doesn't run itself with no one at the wheel. I choose a wheel position.

Now in my non-HOA home...My lawncare costs me $40 every 2 weeks! My garbage pickup is once a week for $13 in a small trash can. I have no pool or clubhouse. All the maintenance has to be done by me and paid out of my pocket. I now spend about $100 a month versus $50. Plus there's if I don't do the work or pay the bills no one else is going to do it for me...

It is much cheaper to spread the expenses across the board equally amongst ALL the owners than paying everything out of your own pocket. Just because the board of a HOA spends the money or controls it, just means they do so on my behalf since I may choose NOT to participate and allow them to do their job. They do have a job to do. That is run the HOA on the part of the general membership who don't want to do anything but pay their bills. That my dear is the whole power trip your board is on. The one that is for you and your neighbors own good so they don't have to do a thing except send in their dues money. Got it yet? By your own words too... This is what you want done...

Former HOA President
KevinK7
(Florida)

Posts:1343


01/16/2013 4:56 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 01/16/2013 2:58 AM
Posted By MikeR15 on 01/15/2013 5:58 PM
Jeezz! You really don't get it!

Homeowners will NEVER want to "participate" in these HOA things.


For various reasons you have chosen not to participate in the running of your Association.





I will say that considering some of the complaints arise from a non-vote being considered a yea, I would say that his non-participation was an action. When my home was in the HOA I used to receive proxy votes in the mail for this or that. If I didn't return it, it was considered a vote against the measure. I utilized this option whenever possible because I didn't have to waste my time mailing something back and I was rarely able to attend the meetings.

MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


01/16/2013 5:34 AM  
Exactly...after my HOA board recoreded themselves manipulating the ballot...that was it.

I don't waste my time at their meetings, and throw their ballots whatever in the trash.

We pay our bill and expect them to leave us alone.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


01/16/2013 5:45 AM  
Posted By MikeR15 on 01/16/2013 5:34 AM
I don't waste my time at their meetings, and throw their ballots whatever in the trash.

We pay our bill and expect them to leave us alone.





Mike,

I'll ask my question again. I believe that your statement of wanting to be left alone is truly the crux of most membership apathy, let me ask you a simple question:

The deed restrictions typically require the Association to maintain common areas and provide specific services, what is your solution for complying with those provisions?
MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


01/16/2013 5:48 AM  
AND I am attacking their "power".

I am sure the court will take away their ability to fine...whether they apply this broadly throughout the state...who knows...

They are unilaterally changing the governing documents...because they can....and that is a Contract 101 NO NO. We will see what the courts do about that.

I tried going to meetings early on to get this done. In fact before you go to court you had BETTER be able to show that you have exhuasted other remedys.

But the meetings were very much like this thread....some fairly unpleasent people took the lead and started in with personal insults, combined with a complete ignorance of the law ect...while the other board members sat back and let them...hoping I would go away I guess.

So court was the only real alternative in these situations.

I am convinced that the only real solution to these HOAs which are becoming more out of control every day...is to strip most of the power from them.

Delegate it to where it belongs...Rules and changes to documents...the homeowners

Penaltys....to the courts.

Let the board play "executive" all it wants, as long as the homeowners have complete access to every bit of information there is, and complete oversight to what they do.

Who knows...folks might even be motivated to get involved then.





MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


01/16/2013 5:55 AM  
What is so hard about providing those things?

We pay our dues...pay the venders to cut the grass with the money...simple.

Why do you think that boards should be going around like the Stasi harrassing and persecuting their neighbors?

Where did that nonsense come from?
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


01/16/2013 6:02 AM  
That nonsense came from members like you...You get out of a HOA what you put in it. From your postings I see they are giving out what your putting in it.

Former HOA President
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


01/16/2013 6:16 AM  
Mike,

Let me get this straight, you want "Penaltys....to the courts." I'm interpreting that as you would prefer that the Association bring legal action against all alleged violators rather than trying to resolve the infractions internally. Would this be a correct interpretation?


As for the other things you desire, transparency in the operating of the Association and amendments to the governing documents voted on by the membership, I agree with those things. In fact, when my Board wasn't doing those things I participated in the process and was elected to the board. Now we are transparent to the membership. Our website provides minutes of the meetings, copies of all governing documents, links to applicable State laws, a forum for members to discuss issues, future dates of meetings, invitation for any member to attend any meeting and contact information for all Board members and committee chairs.
I truly believe that had I not rallied like minded members together (which wasn't easy and took 3 years) the Board would still be operating behind closed doors.

Perhaps you can take the time to gather your neighbors and become part of the process to initiate the things you desire to have in your Association. If not you, who?

MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


01/16/2013 7:50 AM  
Correct...any Penaltys should be determined by impartial tribunals. This is not library fines for over-due books we are talking about.

These "fines" go to our property. NO ONE but the courts should have the power to impose them!

As far as "messiah boards" coming in to save the day...give me a break. Just limit the boards power so that we can rest assured they don't go off the reservation...like they so often do.

Pretty simple isn't it?

LauraR5
(Tennessee)

Posts:220


01/16/2013 8:46 AM  
First of all, when you are successful for overthrowing all of the HOAs in the world, will you come put my siding back on after a tornado and mow my lawn? Thanks!

Next, I want to just toss something out there. You really should get involved with the process in your own community because you might learn how it actually works. Or, just pay your money and quit your griping.

I don't know about most of the folks here, but my HOA board didn't set any of the fines in our community. It's all in our documents, which were drawn up by the builder. Because there have to be rules before anyone moves into the community; otherwise people wouldn't know what they were signing up for.

Do we enforce the rules? Yeah, we do. Although we're not the hard @#ses you make us out to be. First and foremost, these people are our neighbors and we treat them just like we would want to be treated. However, our insurance policy doesn't allow for kids to set up a basketball hoop in the cul-de-sac and you can't just leave your trash wherever you want. Honestly most of the rules that we enforce that people moan and grown about our city laws that they tell us we have to enforce, like no gas grills. And, trust me, when that law changed here, we worked with our attorneys to find a way that we could still allow people to have grills without breaking any laws.

If you have the attitude that your big, bad, incompetent HOA is out to get you, then everything they do is going to seem big, bad, incompetent and out to get you. At some point, folks need to look at the big picture and decide if they are truly part of the problem or part of the solution.

Tonight, when I am out in the cold and rain inspecting my neighbors' porch railings to determine which ones we will replace at no cost to them, I will think about what an incompetent jerk I am trying to just make money off these innocent people with my bogus fines.

Get a grip. It's not all about you. People shouldn't live in a COMMUNITY if they have no concept of how community works.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


01/16/2013 9:18 AM  
Posted By MikeR15 on 01/16/2013 7:50 AM
Correct...any Penaltys should be determined by impartial tribunals. This is not library fines for over-due books we are talking about.




Well I can say I do understand your position. That position can become expensive as legal fees for enforcement issues may require additional assessments.

I prefer our Associations method for enforcement:

Informal Notice
Formal Notice
Hearing before the Committee
Hearing before the Board

The Board may institute fines if necessary.

If none of the above works, then legal action.



MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


01/16/2013 9:51 AM  
To call going before the organization making the accusation a "hearing"...(which is also the same organization that made the rule or reg. in the first place)

Is an Orwellian distortion of that word, and of the concept of "due process"

What it IS... is an almost laughable "banana republic" system of justice.

In my lawsuit I actually use the phrase "banana republic"...I hope the court uses it in their decision.

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


01/16/2013 10:03 AM  
Well I guess we will have to just agree to disagree.
JonD1


Posts:0


01/16/2013 11:38 AM  
http://sandiegofreepress.org/2013/01/payback-hundreds-of-homeowners-associations-threaten-banks-with-foreclosure/

So here is an article about HOAs attemping to collect unpiad dues and charges from banks tha hold foreclosed properties.

Most people would see this as a positive for the HOA and the property owners.

Then follow down to the comments section and read Mike's words of HOA wisdom. He sees this as an opportunity for the banks to damage the HOAs.

Yeah, when the HOA goes after banks for unpiad CCs Mike decides this is a bad move. My opinion I don't want Mike deciding anything.
MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


01/16/2013 8:14 PM  
Yes Tim we do.

And it is a little bit frightening that you don't understand that NO ONE in the community would EVER be eligible to sit on a jury to HEAR any dispute in the same community in American jurisprudence.

Look up the word IMPARTIAL...it might help you to understand what is wrong here..

So....do folks who live in HOAs not live in America?
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


01/17/2013 3:10 AM  
Posted By MikeR15 on 01/16/2013 8:14 PM

Look up the word IMPARTIAL...it might help you to understand what is wrong here..




Impartial treating or affecting all equally; not partial or biased.

Bias an inclination of temperament or outlook; especially : a personal and sometimes unreasoned judgment : prejudice

Prejudice preconceived judgment or opinion.



Lets be honest. Everyone has some form of bias or prejudice based on cultural differences and life experiences. Therefore, it's impossible to truly have true impartiality in any situation as individuals tend base their perspective filtered by those differences and experiences. The best one can hope for is that an individual is mature enough to recognize their own prejudices and bias and have the ability to set them aside and form an opinion based on the facts as they are presented. This is what our justice system is based on and, based on your legal action, a system you're willing to place your faith in it.


Many States require an HOA to hold a hearing prior to instituting fines. Therefore, in order to comply with State laws, hearing must be held. Hopefully, those who are willing and have chosen to participate in the process will elect individuals (from those willing to serve) who will be mature enough to be as impartial as they can be when the hold a hearing (or sit on the judicial bench). If people chose not to participate in the election process and/or chose not to volunteer to be a candidate to serve on their HOA/COA Board or a committee, then it is certainly their option. Unfortunately, this lack of participation limits the choices available to the membership and thus, limits the "jury pool" for a hearing (heck, it works that way in our own judicial system when individuals are called for jury duty).


Mike,

You have my sympathy. I'm sorry that your life experiences don't allow you to set aside your own bias and prejudices toward Associations. Based on discussions within this forum and links provided to other forums where you posted, you appear to allow that bias and prejudice to taint your opinion of anyone who is willing to serve on any Association.

Heck, your citation of your Board's minutes indicate that at least one individual tried to do the right thing by questioning how non-votes were to be counted and that individual had enough character to vote against the proposal. Unfortunately, it appears that your perception, filtered by your own life experiences, considers this individual as the enemy even though they appear to agree with your position on the issue of how votes/non-votes should be counted.

Hopefully you are not so set in your ways that if you are ever called upon to serve on a jury considering Associations that you will be able to be impartial or at least recuse yourself from being part of the jury.

Again, you have my sympathy.
MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


01/17/2013 6:29 AM  


The phoney "Due Process" that is being passed off in HOAs, especially in regard to fines that effect American's property...I can't imagine it would survive any attack on it in court.

Fortunately my HOA board was honorable (or stupid) enough to record in their minutes what was ACTUALLY going on...

So lets see what the courts say!


TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


01/17/2013 6:34 AM  
Mike,

Again, you have my sympathy.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


01/17/2013 7:39 AM  
Tim...Mike has my sympathies as well...You really did try and I applaud your efforts. However, this is Mike's world and we have been decided that we live in it as power obsessed HOA board members with agendas to destroy the country we live in. We do it by enforcing the rules of a contract or being responsible for making sure the people get what they pay for regardless of their activity level in their HOA. However, we are not supposed to do it by levying any kind of punishment monetarily, legal, or otherwise against any member. They can of course do it against us to teach us a lesson of messing with people such like Mike other "victims" of HOA's.

Okay, taking my tongue out of cheek now...The lesson learned here is that taking your HOA board to court no matter what the reason right or wrong is something NOT to take lightly or without lots of money. Damage is done to ALL parties involved. Consider the outcome and damage before going forward with a lawsuit. I saw this posted on a site: "Taste your words before you spit them out"...No better words could be spoken in this situation...

Former HOA President
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


01/17/2013 9:22 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 01/17/2013 6:34 AM
Mike,

Again, you have my sympathy.



Tim the ones I feel sorry for are his family and friends (if any). We can choose to read his diatribes or not. And while I personally get a chuckle at how well he can ignore facts in pursuit of his white whale, dismantling the power of all Hoa's. Now imagine being trapped at the dinner table with him as he rants about "banana republics" with no way to click to a different posting.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JonD1


Posts:0


01/17/2013 11:40 AM  
Posted By JonD1 on 01/16/2013 11:38 AM
http://sandiegofreepress.org/2013/01/payback-hundreds-of-homeowners-associations-threaten-banks-with-foreclosure/

So here is an article about HOAs attemping to collect unpiad dues and charges from banks tha hold foreclosed properties.

Most people would see this as a positive for the HOA and the property owners.

Then follow down to the comments section and read Mike's words of HOA wisdom. He sees this as an opportunity for the banks to damage the HOAs.

Yeah, when the HOA goes after banks for unpiad CCs Mike decides this is a bad move. My opinion I don't want Mike deciding anything.




Decided to add Mike's words of wisdom when an HOA atempts to protect the owners by seeking payment of dues on properties owned by banks. Clearly shows the mental limitations Mike is laboring under. And of course more of the "macho man" fake aggression that is supposed to make him on par with service veterans. Scary lile world Mike has built for himslef. But no doubt the HOA's fault!!!!


Mike Reardon January 3, 2013 at 3:46 am
"Finally…Lets hope the Banks give a giant bitch slap to these repugnant HOAs.

Strip them of their power to hurt homeowners, make them go back to mowing the grass and paying the bills.

Create laws that provide criminal consequences to the epidemic stealing and embezzelment that is going on in HOAs, and the ignoring of laws that should protect homeowners from their insane capricious conduct.

HOAs need to die a violent death, I hope the banks use their power to do it."

JonD1


Posts:0


01/17/2013 11:53 AM  
Posted By GlenL on 01/17/2013 9:22 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 01/17/2013 6:34 AM
Mike,

Again, you have my sympathy.



Tim the ones I feel sorry for are his family and friends (if any). We can choose to read his diatribes or not. And while I personally get a chuckle at how well he can ignore facts in pursuit of his white whale, dismantling the power of all Hoa's. Now imagine being trapped at the dinner table with him as he rants about "banana republics" with no way to click to a different posting.





Yes Glen must be quite a trip when down in Florida visiting Dad and staying in your OTHER HOA you know the one Mike bought because he could not find a house down in Florida that was not in an HOA. NONE!

And when sitting in his second HOA home laughing to himself about the fools his fellow neighbors are because Mike and only Mike sees the flaw in their property ownership system. Yes Mike is the only one that gets it or is it Mike is the only one dedicating their lives to fiaghing a battle no one else even understands?

His Father is fighing his war throwing crumbled paperwork in the faces of others in Florida and junior is holding off the enemy forces up in Ma.
What a way to live your lives.........

Wonder what the family really thinks of Mighty Mike and his crusade. And when it is all over and the dust has settled and thousands of HOAs fail to fall into the sea and millions find the ability to live their lives without all he trauma Mike can't ignore what will Mike do then?

How will he prove he is right? How will he cement his place in world history? How can he let the Constitution go unprotected? Just who or what will he smack down next? Where can he use his influence for right and good next???? I have no clue...

Mike can't begin to understand that he IS the problem no one else.
Fight on Mike Fight on.................

MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


01/17/2013 12:45 PM  
Shoot! I can't even go to the post office without hearing about what a bunch of #$%holes everyones HOA board members are!

The folks I know are THRILLED that I am administering a very large beat down to my HOA.

My wife smiles and gives me the eye when folks try to get me to talk about what a tin pot, banana republic these laughable organizations are. I just say... lets see what the courts do..

Everyone hates them...except of course for the Quisling neighbors who are selling out their neighbors to express their sad quest for power...power they never had from elementary school to the present day...

Until of course they discovered that in HOAs... ONLY sad sacks like themselves even want to lord over, persecute and harrass their neighbors...

I believe if Osama Bin Ladin had any brains whatsoever....he just would have bought a tract of land....established an HOA...

And sat back and laughed as Americans stripped from fellow Americans their Constitutional rights like tail tied cats thrown over a tree branch...

It really is THAT sad...and THAT disgusting!

JonD1


Posts:0


01/17/2013 1:26 PM  
Yes I go to the Post Office all the time and everyone is bad mouthing HOAs! My guess MIKE just might lead the band. Think any other topic of conversation is possible with folks like Mike???

Paranoia about HOAs and hearing voices supporting you, not good at all.

Yes, all HOA residents agree with Mike because he says so. Now when he tried to push through Mike's law "about a dozen" of those MILLIONS botheres to show up. Makes sense right??? Well to Mike it does.

And when the court rules what then??????



RobertR16
(South Carolina)

Posts:2


01/17/2013 3:48 PM  
I used to post a lot here several years ago, used RobertR1. Every once in a while I get discussions from this site because old postings were picked up on. Such is the case here and I have to say this whole thread has morphed into a unproductive waste of
time and nothing constructive is produced. Certainly there are postings a plenty that
provide enough informaton for analysis and conclusion. Our friend Mike has a mind set
that is not going to be influenced by any posting here, and probably anywhere else.
No point in picking up sides and start throwing rocks. This does not mean Mike is without merit and many of us old timers can reflect back on Mike and get our own picture at a different time. I have no idea if Mike is serious, or right, wrong, or in
between, nor does it matter. The subjects unearthed during this thread are serious and warrant thought and considerations. However, this forum is not judge and jury and
simply gives opinions. Some here I remember, Jon, Tim, Glen and Melissa come to mmind.
These people and others I am sure are a wonderful resource to the HOA complexities.
Many have given opinions on this thread, all posts are valuable. But you can't beat a dead dog and this discussion died a while back.

I hope this does not appear judgemental or simplistic and comes across as not grasping the problems. It's not, and as this case may come before the court, let it happen; and hope all this tirade does not result in gladden winners and sadden losers. Just not
that worthy at this point in the time line. IMHO......nothing more.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


01/17/2013 3:58 PM  
Posted By RobertR16 on 01/17/2013 3:48 PM
I have to say this whole thread has morphed into a unproductive waste of time and nothing constructive is produced...

The subjects unearthed during this thread are serious and warrant thought and considerations. However, this forum is not judge and jury and simply gives opinions...

But you can't beat a dead dog and this discussion died a while back.




Amen !
MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


01/17/2013 4:21 PM  

HOAs are the most significant threat to a homeowners interest in his/her property...bar none.

I encourage ANY homeowner who is repulsed by these over-reaching and obdurate pathetic private governances...

to SUE YOUR HOA BOARD....for daring to threaten not only the most valuable asset you own, but the most important PLACE in your life....YOUR HOME.

State by state our courts are beginning to recognize what a joke on American property ownership these pathetic little third world tyrannys have become, and how they have no place in American's lives.



JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


01/17/2013 5:33 PM  
Posted By TimB4 on 01/17/2013 3:58 PM
Posted By RobertR16 on 01/17/2013 3:48 PM
I have to say this whole thread has morphed into a unproductive waste of time and nothing constructive is produced...

The subjects unearthed during this thread are serious and warrant thought and considerations. However, this forum is not judge and jury and simply gives opinions...

But you can't beat a dead dog and this discussion died a while back.




Amen !




I agreed. This discussion has died.
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


01/18/2013 1:22 AM  
RobertR how the heck are you? I've missed your posts, we didn't always see eye to eye but I appreciated your perspective along with that of MicheleD, MaryA and DonnaS.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
RobertR16
(South Carolina)

Posts:2


01/18/2013 4:06 AM  
Thanks for asking Glen,
I'm doing well for 82, wife passed away after long illnes, had a few health issues,
trying to sell condo and move to Houston with new bride. Life is good considering the alternative. Lots of water under the bridge. Conclusion: I have been blessed and working on trying to acknowledge my Godly favors. Work in progress.
MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


01/18/2013 5:31 PM  
Folks...

Sue your HOA board when they violate the law, ignore their governing documents, or act like the psychopaths that seem to be so often drawn to these positions of power (and the complete lack of oversight on their powers).

The courts are begining to realize what a dysfunctional thing these HOAs are...

Go for it! Punish these repugnant places for intefering with your enjoyment of your home!
ThomasD2
(California)

Posts:208


01/25/2013 7:01 PM  
Posted By SusanW1 on 12/12/2008 5:53 AM
Charles - one thing at a time!

Your letter is TOO long and is difficult to figure out just WHAT the main point is.

YES - send the letter and site the fine for non-compliance on their part ---

but make it ONE short paragraph request for the documents you want.






Amen!!
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


01/25/2013 8:36 PM  
A week and no ranting from Mike. Away or medication adjustment?
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