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Subject: How do I get get out of the HOA? Can it be Easy??
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JohnM28
(Maryland)

Posts:2


06/29/2008 9:25 PM  
I want to get out of my HOA! Never liked them but I ended up in a neighborhood with one. Last couple years wasn't bad until we got a new neighbor. This guy drives around, weekly, looking for violations of any kind.

Under the Articles of Incorporation, there a section about De-Annexation. This is what it says:

3.3 DEANNEXATION.

(a) Provided there are Class A members, the Declarant may deannex any property (excluding, however, any Common Area conveyed to the Association by the Declarant) from the Property for the period of seven (7) years from the date of the recordation of this Declaration. Such deannexed property shall no longer be subject to the covenants and restrictions of this Declaration except for any easement, rights, reservations, exemptions, power or privileges reserved to the Declarant pursuant to this Declaration which burden the deannexed property for the benefit of any property which is subject to the Declaration. Such deannexation shall be made by recording a supplementary declaration among the Land Records of the County, withdrawing the effect of the covenants and restrictions of this Declaration from the deannexed property. Such deannexed property may be utilized by the Delarant, or any successor, assignee or transferee thereof, for any lawful purpose or use.

(b) So Long as any Lot is encumbered by a deed of trust or mortage which is guaranteed by the Federal Housing Administration and/or veterans Administration, as the case may be, no deannexation shall be made pursuant to this Section, or otherwise, except following a determination by the Federal Housing Administration and/or veterans Administration, that the deannexation is not contrary to a general plan for the development of the Property previously approved by the Federal Housing administration and/or Veterans Administration, or, if no such general plan was approved by the Federal Housing Administration and/or Veterans Administration, except following the prior written approval of the Federal Housing Administration and or Veterans-Administration.

====
Based on the Deannexation section, it seems, if you can get the county to sign off, you can just remove yourself from the HOA by adding a supplement.

What has me confused is the 1st sentence where it says "Provided there are Class A members, the Declarant may deannex any property." It's confusing because I can't figure out who a Declarant is.

From the Class of Membership section, it says Class B members are Declarants. The info seems to go in circles...

It says:

(a) The Association shall have (2) class of voting memberships.
(i) Class A: Except for the Declarant, whos shall initally be a Class B member, the Class A members shall be all Record owners holding title to one (1) or more Lots; provided, however, that any Mortgagee or any other person or entity who holds such interest solely as securty for performance of an obligation shall not be a Class A member solely on account of such interest. Each Class A member shall be entitled to one (1) vote per Lot, for each Lot owned by it, in all proceedings in which action shall be taken by member of the Association.

(ii) Class B. The Class B member shall be the Declarant. The Class B members shall be entitled to three (3) votes per Lot for each Lot owned by it. in all proceedings in which actions shall be taken by members of the Association.

There's more stuff under the Class B, but it basically says if there's more then one person that's owns the property, they get one vote as an entity. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but that's the way it reads to me...

===========

Back to the task at hand... Based on what I've posted... How hard will it be to get myself removed from the HOA? If I can't remove myself, how would I go about figuring out when the 7 years comes along for auto renewal so I can try then to kill the HOA?

I really can't tell when this thing started because there are multiple dates in it, but I can tell you that a Notary signed off on it on 7/31/2001.

BTW, has anyone successfully gotten out of an HOA without having the complete HOA killed?

Thanks!!
BrianB
(California)

Posts:2820


06/29/2008 9:40 PM  
The only way out of your HOA is to post a sign in your front yard with the words "for sale" in large letters. Wait for someone to make you an offer for your property. Sell to them. Move out.

other than that, you bought into the HOA when you bought property with a restricted deed, and you cannot change that. THe portions of the rules you quote allow the declarant (ie, the original owner/developer of the lots) to remove some lots from HOA control for a couple years, with certain restrictions. that's it. there's nothing you can do except sell.
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


06/29/2008 9:53 PM  
The Declarant is the original developer who put the Declarations in place to begin with. In my lay opinion what this is saying is that as long as the original Declarant is involved he/she may remove any property except common areas. So if you can get the original Declarant to remove your property by filing a new Declaration on it by July 31, 2008 you can maybe get out provided you do not have a FHA or VA loan in which case you would need their approval first.

But I wouldn't hold my breath, even if they were somehow willing to do this for you, they would probably ask for a boatload of money to make it worth their while. Plus this section may be null and void if the Declarant has already turned all of his interest in the community over to the homeowners. You would probably have an easier time just abiding by the CC&R's you agreed to when you bought; then you wouldn't have to worry about your neighbor turning you in.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JohnM28
(Maryland)

Posts:2


06/29/2008 11:56 PM  
Brian,

I wish I could move, but since there's 7 other homes in my neighborhood for sale, I doubt I'll be able to sell and just move. Plus, I can't seem to save a penny with the way gas prices keep going up; although moving would save me a fortune due to gas prices and I'd love to have more land.

To be honest, I would have never bought here except I was kind of stuck. I was renting before and my landlord was selling the place. I didn't want to buy it because I wanted a single family home, not a townhome. It was '04 and the housing market was HOT! I didn't have enough money to buy what I wanted and when I found something, it would sell before I could even make a bid. Because of this, where I am now was the best compromise. I ended up in the middle of no where, on an acre, in a new development.

Everything was fine until these new people moved in.... People kept to themselves and everything was done in good taste. Now these new folks are trying to get on the BOD (Husband). So far, he hasn't been able to get elected, but his wife made it on the Architectural board (appointment). She's gotten a bit out of control because the CCR just says things have to look good and it's up to their opinion. Basically, they're trying to set standards based on their tastes.

ok... I guess I should get off the soap box, but in my opinion, HOA's are just an evil, someone invented because they are on a power trip. In my old neighborhood, where I was renting, their CCR had a provision for the color of a garden hose. My neighbor got turned in for having one of those redish colored hoses. No one cared except for one old man who drove around looking for violations. Kinda like this guy in my neighborhood. HOA's are good for the maintenance of common areas, but to many people on power trips use them to put their will over their neighbors.

Me... I just want out of the HOA right now because I would like to keep my boat here. It's only 19ft and I can hide it behind my shed, but I know this guy will be looking... When he makes his weekly run, he drives down the side streets so he can look into the backyards. I would have never known about it, but my next door neighbor pointed out what he was doing. I told him he was thinking to much, but he (next door) told me that he speaks with him, at times, on the train to work and told me how they guy complained about most everyone in the neighborhood.

BTW, the neighbors call this guy the Naked Ironing Dude. He's house is at an intersection (people see him when they're heading to the intersection) and my neighbors tell me he has his blinds open, in the early morning, and he stand next to the window ironing naked...



GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


06/30/2008 12:18 AM  
John so if I'm reading you right; you're hiding something on your property (the boat or the shed) that you signed a legally binding contract not to do. And now because someone is trying to enforce the CC&R's they're the bad guy and HOA's are evil? Wouldn't it be simpler to get the required number of homeowner's together and amend the CC&R's to allow them than living in dread of being caught?

Do some HOA's go overboard in enforcing the Covenants? Absolutely I even remember a news article from last year where a BOD rented a helicopter to see onto someone's property because they couldn't tell from the road if they were in violation but this is not the norm so don't paint all Associations with the same brush. The fact is IMO that most "bad" BOD's/Associations happen because too many members are all too willing to sit on their collective asses and let other's do for them until they do something that affects them.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


06/30/2008 4:48 AM  
Step 1. CONFIRM the CCR's are actually registered against your property. Don't assume they are.

Step 2. If the CCR's are registered against your property then you can try what Glen suggested to get the CCR's changed. Probably easier to accomplish if many others have boats too (and if the CCR's currently restrict them). More times than not I've read this is difficult just to get enough votes.

Step 3. If you can't do #2, then get rid of the boat.

Step 4. If you can't do #3, then sell and move or be prepared for fines, legal costs which if you don't pay, could end up with you moving anyway when your house get sold out from under you.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


06/30/2008 4:55 AM  

DJ,

You forgot Step#4--- Try complying with what you agreed to when you bought into the HOA. Seems the easiest to my. This guy seem to be a non conformist.
DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


06/30/2008 5:49 AM  
Donna, not always the case but this time I'm ONE step ahead of you.
Step 3 was "If you can't do #2, then get rid of the boat."

heh heh.
BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:2640


06/30/2008 6:54 AM  
John:

HOA's are not evil, sometimes the people running them are evil. They serve a purpose and when you have the right people in charge they are wonderful things. If you get the wrong people in charge they aren't. My philosophy, read before you sign, and then follow what you signed.

Sorry to hear you are having issues, but Brian is right, the only way out is to sell. Your options without selling are to find a home for your boat or to leave it there and wait for a letter which is only a matter of time.
JeanneK3
(Maryland)

Posts:562


06/30/2008 8:05 AM  
If you do not want (or can't) sell, it is time for you and your like-minded neighbors to run for the Board. You can even start an action to remove the existing Board. Your by-laws tell you how to do that. However, from what you have said it appears the major problem is someone on the architectural committee. This committee just advises the Board and the Board does not have to listen. Maybe you and your friends need to attend a Board meeting and express your concerns there. Since you are in Maryland check out www.marylandhomeownersassociation.info for more strategies.
MaryA1


Posts:0


06/30/2008 10:06 AM  
John,

The declarant is the developer and according to the article you posted, only he can deannex a property from the HOA. The article also states: "So Long as any Lot is encumbered by a deed of trust or mortage which is guaranteed by the Federal Housing Administration and/or veterans Administration. . ." the FHA and/or VA must approve the deannexation. Note it says "any lot" not just "your lot". Bottom line: forget about your property being deannexed. This clause was only put into the articles of inc. for the benefit of the developer!

IMO, it might be better to resign yourself to the fact that you are obligated to abide by the CCR restrictions you agreed to by virtue of purchasing your property. Just be happy you don't live next door to the Naked Ironing Guy! I must say my morning tea almost went up my nose when I read that. LOL

Seriously, if you can get enough of your neighbors to agree with you, a change in the CCR restrictions might be suggested to the BOD. Amending the CCRs usually requires a rather large % of votes so it would be imperative to get as many members to agree to your proposed changes as possible. There's power in numbers!

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


06/30/2008 12:09 PM  
I agree with Glen 100%. If you "had" to buy into an HOA, then you "have" to follow the rules.

Opting out is rarely on the table.

Never ceases to amaze me when people complain that CC&Rs ARE being enforced. . . .

As long as they keep "the other guy" in line, they're okay, or at lease tolerable. Once they affect you, oh, boy, now they are evil.

You know, there are all sorts of U-Store-It companies that allow you to (for a fee) store your boats and RVs - - -

If you can't fit it in your garage, and you don't want to get rid of the boat, then bite the bullet and store it offsite. Hundreds, if not thousands, of boat owners to the exact same thing.
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


06/30/2008 1:22 PM  
Posted By JeanneK3 on 06/30/2008 8:05 AM
If you do not want (or can't) sell, it is time for you and your like-minded neighbors to run for the Board. You can even start an action to remove the existing Board. Your by-laws tell you how to do that. However, from what you have said it appears the major problem is someone on the architectural committee. This committee just advises the Board and the Board does not have to listen. Maybe you and your friends need to attend a Board meeting and express your concerns there. Since you are in Maryland check out www.marylandhomeownersassociation.info for more strategies.



Jeanne with all due respect how would getting on the Board or removing a BOD that is apparently doing their job cure his problem? Being on the BOD doesn't give you special dispensation to break the rules. Instead you're under even more scrutiny from all kinds of people waiting for you to screw up to prove you're not being fair to them, kind of like the OP. Now I'm all for people volunteering and being actively involved in their Associations but not as an excuse to violate or circumvent the rules.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:2640


07/01/2008 6:03 AM  
Posted By GlenL on 06/30/2008 1:22 PM
Posted By JeanneK3 on 06/30/2008 8:05 AM
If you do not want (or can't) sell, it is time for you and your like-minded neighbors to run for the Board. You can even start an action to remove the existing Board. Your by-laws tell you how to do that. However, from what you have said it appears the major problem is someone on the architectural committee. This committee just advises the Board and the Board does not have to listen. Maybe you and your friends need to attend a Board meeting and express your concerns there. Since you are in Maryland check out www.marylandhomeownersassociation.info for more strategies.



Jeanne with all due respect how would getting on the Board or removing a BOD that is apparently doing their job cure his problem? Being on the BOD doesn't give you special dispensation to break the rules. Instead you're under even more scrutiny from all kinds of people waiting for you to screw up to prove you're not being fair to them, kind of like the OP. Now I'm all for people volunteering and being actively involved in their Associations but not as an excuse to violate or circumvent the rules.




It would allow him to give preferencial treatment to his property and that of his friends which would make him the target of his neighbors and put him legally liable for selective enforcement.
SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5202


07/02/2008 11:15 AM  
You said . . "She's gotten a bit out of control because the CCR just says things have to look good and it's up to their opinion. Basically, they're trying to set standards based on their tastes."

This is an unbelievable statement!! Please explain

She is either trying to enforce the current, valid, CCRs or not, she can't "set up" her own CCRs, according to her taste or her opinion.


BrianB
(California)

Posts:2820


07/02/2008 12:13 PM  
Posted By SusanW1 on 07/02/2008 11:15 AM
You said . . "She's gotten a bit out of control because the CCR just says things have to look good and it's up to their opinion. Basically, they're trying to set standards based on their tastes."

This is an unbelievable statement!! Please explain

She is either trying to enforce the current, valid, CCRs or not, she can't "set up" her own CCRs, according to her taste or her opinion.






i can help explain this a bit Susan... one of MFHO rules was that yards "must be maintained to current community standards". what the OP is saying is that his president/board member is determing that standard by herself, and perhaps "raising it" a bit higher.

In our case, for example, we considered the community standard to be bare lots with no weeds, because that's all everyone had. after a year, almost everyone had gravel or lawns in place, and we considered that to be the community standard, and the one guy still running with bare ground, no landscaping was given notice he needed to come "up" to the community standard. Looks like this board member is trying to raise the standard through application of her own standards of what beauty, reasonableness, cleanliness, etc. is, because the CC&R's don't define these things very tightly.

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5202


07/03/2008 6:19 AM  
The CCRs and/or bylaws are the "bones" of the rules. The Board needs to "flesh out" the definition of the terms. No one person has the power to do that.

"Up to Community Standards" is too ambiguous. Encourage your board to define these terms.
KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1665


07/04/2008 5:59 PM  
One of the advantages of professional management company (at least in theory). At a minimum you have a third party who should enforce equally. The board should be able to set the level at which the company attempts to maintain.
JesseB
(North Carolina)

Posts:6


07/16/2008 11:20 AM  
Brian B hits the nail on the head
BrianB
(California)

Posts:2820


07/16/2008 6:00 PM  
whoo hoooo.. that was the best ten cents i ever spent for that compliment!
ArnoldP1
(Tennessee)

Posts:4


11/06/2010 8:09 AM  
Class B goes away after 7 to 10 years from the time the developer filed the *CCR'S and tied the lots to the commons area. I think this is when turnover starts by the developer.Also 70% of lots are sold whichever comes up first. We are no in the process to get the encumbered commons area turned over. It is a mess when a scrupulous developer is involved. Lawyers love this. (Tennessee HOA)

*Conditions covenants and restrictions
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


11/06/2010 9:44 AM  
It is a mess when a scrupulous developer is involved. Lawyers love this. (Tennessee HOA)


It's an even bigger mess when an unscrupulous developer is involved.



Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
ArnoldP1
(Tennessee)

Posts:4


11/06/2010 10:55 AM  
NO! is the short answer, but you can give them a hard time. Go to the meetings, you have rights don't let them trample on them.

In our ccr.s we have a way out. 20 yrs from the date the restrictions was tied to the property or filed at the court house, You have to get 2/3 rds of a quorem to sign a document and file it about a week before 20 yrs expire or it goes 10 more years, this is in the covenants and it may be Tenn state law also.

Another way out is to file a grievance that is not taken up by the board and file charges to the state. It could dissolve the association.
The assoc could have the charter pulled for breaking the covenants.

I am not a lawyer but I have dealt with union's for a lot of years and these are similar. Check your state laws or county laws where you live.

You have the ccr's, chsrter and by-laws study them and ask questions here and any one that has dealt with HOA's.

HOA's can be a big plus if it is run properly and fair.
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