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Subject: YMCA Taking Over Our Recreation Area!
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Author Messages
RandalR
(Tennessee)

Posts:98


12/23/2007 6:38 PM  
Has anyone ever had their HOA turn over their recreational assets (i.e. pool/tennis) to a third party to manage it for them?

If you have, how did it work and is it working out?

Did your entire neighborhood have to approve the lease/sale or just the Board?

We just caught our Board secretly negotiating with the YMCA and offering to lease (give?) them our recreation area in exchange for them taking over the management of our pool! Running the pool and keeping 6+ acres mowed has been a costly proposition and hassle through the years but within our resources and budget. The Board's plan was to spring it on the membership in attendance at the annual meeting in January and ask them for the authority to complete the negotiations and sign the lease. Essentially how ever many show up at the annual meeting constitutes a quorum and attendance is usually only 25 households out of 263 which makes it easy for them to slant the voting just by making sure enough of their friends show up. Being exposed has forced them to put out a preliminary statement about the proposal but there is nothing about what's actually being proposed. They also completely revised the Bylaws to allow them to sign leases for the neighborhood and control the nomination process for future Board members. Just to make the story even more interesting, an attorney that's on the Board is the one that approached the YMCA and now he supposedly is going to be the Y's attorney for the transaction. Talk about a conflict of interest!

If this isn't enough to wake up the community to the dangers of having a Board that holds their meetings in secret then all hope is lost and those of us that care should be finding better neighborhoods in which to live.

RobinL1
(Florida)

Posts:17


12/24/2007 3:08 AM  
After trying several private individuals for water aerobics, the exercise room, the aerobic, dance room, we went with the Y. I don't think we had to vote. The board had a committee compare rates from different indiv, or grps. They charge $40 a mo for either water aerobics, regular aerobics, could be pilates, or yoga, or stretching class, dance, etc. You go 3 times a week. Can buy a one day pass. There are also certain days a Y member sits in the exercise room to help with weight loss, toning, etcc.
Stay healthy and exercise, its worth every penny
RW1


Posts:0


12/24/2007 4:50 AM  
How does the BOD revise the bylaws in Tenn.? In FLA it takes membership votes.

Jadedone4
(Virginia)

Posts:495


12/24/2007 5:09 AM  
Unfamiliar with Tenn requirements, but "hiring" the YMCA would normally be a board decision; just like hiring landscaper, handyman, roofer, MC, or snow removal folks.

If the board is "giving" the YMCA the building/land (not what the original poster stated) then it SHOULD require the membership vote.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


12/24/2007 5:46 AM  

Well, the beautiful State of Tennessee has NO State laws and Statutes governing HOA's. I own a property there and have talked with the Attorney General and he said that basically, there are no laws on the books. There are some general real estate laws but none for HOA's. EEE GADS!!
PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347


12/24/2007 5:51 AM  
RandalR: Your post leaves some questions. Most importantly, if your official documents state that it is the Association's RESPONSIBILITY to maintain (pay for repair/maintenance) for the pool and other recreation assets (capital reserve items), then the Board cannot 'secretly give' anything to the YMCA in a lease or sale since it changes ownership from what the docs state.

Further, when an AMENDMENT is being considered for the official documents, and in this case it would be the DECLARATION citing the capital assets, the entire group of deed holders is sought for their vote on the proposal. The percentage for an amendment change to pass would be noted in the Declaration as well. Normally the amendment verbiage is sent in the mail with a ballot for voting to ensure ALL are made aware and given the opportunity to cast a vote.

..."They also completely revised the Bylaws to allow them to sign leases for the neighborhood and control the nomination process for future Board members."
The Board cannot change the intent of the Bylaws, again without membership vote/approval. The percentage of the membership vote to pass is stated in the Bylaws.

You need to review your documents to learn what is stated re amendments with
membership vote vs. what the Board can initiate without member vote. All the above is stated based on usual and common Declaration and Bylaw standards. However, your documents (and state docs) may state something different. When you learn the particulars you can then move forward with specific questions of them. Good Luck!








SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5202


12/24/2007 7:52 AM  
I see nothing unusual about hiring a management company to take over something like a pool. Sounds like a win-win situation!

But you said - "They also completely revised the Bylaws to allow them to sign leases for the neighborhood and control the nomination process for future Board members."

Who is the "they" and no one can do what you said without going thru due process (bylaw amendments procedure)
PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347


12/24/2007 10:43 AM  
Randal: You will have to be clearer on your issues for posters to zone in on what you are asking....basically, does your assn. have officially recorded documents and have you reviewed the declaration and bylaws particulars on what is necessary to legally make changes.
RandalR
(Tennessee)

Posts:98


12/24/2007 11:51 AM  
Donna is correct in that TN has no laws specifically governing HOA's. I accidentally left out an important fact that this is not just managing the existing pool/tennis facility, the YMCA is proposing to build a completely new facility on our land if they get the 30 year lease. Property values in our town for property like this continues to set new records every time a piece is sold. So the 6 acres they're looking at turning over could easily be worth a million dollars or more if rezoned to commercial.

The Board is telling the neighborhood nothing about what's been proposed. They're soliciting proxies asking for the authority to vote on issues that come up at the annual meeting and one issue that's going to magically come up is to ask for the authority to negotiate and close the deal with the YMCA.

The 20 year old Bylaws state that the Board can amend the Bylaws. This is something I've been fighting for the past several years especially when they started considering themselves as the sole authority on what is "best for our neighborhood". Though we have the means to easily solicit the input from the residents, they refuse to do so. They have already illegally passed a revised covenant to convert our neighborhood from a voluntary to mandatory association. They spent 18 months trying to collect 50.1% of the required signatures to do so. In that time they've revised the wording without making the original signers resign it. They made it one of those campaigns where, "we're going to vote, and keep voting until we get what we want!" Eighteen months, come on now! Talk about backwoods politics. Our only option is to pay an attorney out of our own pockets it have it challenged in court.

Our Board is tasked with maintaining the "common properties". I'm still reading all the revisions to the Bylaws they sent out two days ago but it's apparent that they've amended a number of the provisions to ensure they have more authority than ever.
RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164


12/24/2007 4:13 PM  
Randal,
I am hearing the board is going to sell/transfer/rent/lease/giveaway common property, or some such action by the BOD. Reason says when you bought into the Association you also bought a share of the common property. This property is not owned by the Board, but by the members and I would bet any sale documents state this somewhere, along with any other kind of registered document you have as a corporation. The Board can do a lot of things but they cannot partioned the common property, except for right off ways or utilities easements. You would need 100% of owners to agree to do this.

I just don't have much else to say about this little caper, but the common property is registered at the court house when the association was formed, and there should be a description of the Boundries of this land. If this is an HOA, each property will be deeded with a legal description, and the property not included in any of these deeds will be Real Property and run with the land, which in a sense means it will stay that way, and must be renewed every twenty five years or so. It has to be there somewhere.

However, to be fair to all, hear the Board out, don't waste time on whaat your state don't require, spend more time on what all your documents require, go to the meeting armed with salient talking points, record everything. If the Board is hell bent of doing this, let them know from the get go, they don't have your vote and never will. It may be important to tape the meeting, now is the time they will promise more than they can deliver, make sure you get what they promise. I would not allow them to vote on anything. No way can they do anything to the real property without a vote of all the owners, not just those present.
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