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Subject: disabled & feeling harrassed by HOA
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Author Messages
JakeS
(South Carolina)

Posts:24


02/16/2008 1:34 PM  
Bill
Thank you from all those who are disabled for standing and fighting. I am thrilled you won. Did the HOA pay your attorney fees as well as their own?

You are sooo right there is very little compassion for the disabled until you are one. Way to go Bill keep fighting. All the best to you and to all disabled file an FHA claim and a claim with HUD because HUD watches over FHA so if FHA doesn't accomodate then go HUD.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


02/16/2008 2:13 PM  

Jake,
We are certainly glad that Bill got resolution in his problem with his HOA and that he is finally happy. Unfortunately, Bill got very accusitory in his comments, stating that some of us, especially myself have no compassion for the handicapped. He is very wrong on that one. Once anyone goes down that line of thought, then the willingness of myself and perhaps others, cease to want to go the extra mile and help when this attitude rears it's ugly head. The personal attacks are and never should be allowed. I for one will report this to the monitor immediately. This seems to be a problem with non Board, committee and P.M members, which Bill was.
JakeS
(South Carolina)

Posts:24


02/16/2008 3:03 PM  

As President of a HOA and an active member in CAI I have to be completely honest with you sometimes we as board members are haughty and disrespectful of others situations. I have several people in our development that are disabled and I was raised by a Mother who is disabled. As an HOA president I need to be mindful that diversity exists and always will. As our population ages HOA's will and should make accomodations for disabled people. We can not expect people to move from the neighborhood just because they got sick and they are not following rules to the letter of the law and our interpretation thereof. What is more important Rules or People? I think your answer would be people. I saw some of his anger which is something I hope you let roll off your back.

As for Bill he was extemely frustrated. Getting up each day and overcoming an illness every minute of the day makes people a bit angry sometimes.

Have a blessed day.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


02/16/2008 3:06 PM  

Jake,
Yes, you have just about stated my personal feelings to the letter. Thank you, Donna
AnnaD2
(Florida)

Posts:949


02/16/2008 3:12 PM  
I, for one, could not have said it better than Donna. This post turned sort of ugly. Donna, I hope you follow through with what you wrote about reporting it to the monitor. This is the MOST helpful website out there and you'll also find the most compassionate people on this site. GOOD Boards work very, VERY hard to be accomodating in ALL situations. But sorry----the rules and the laws come first. People have a choice---buy into a HOA or condo association or NOT. Once they do, then the responsibility lies with them. If they're unable to abide by the docs and rules THEY have options............
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


02/16/2008 3:23 PM  

Anna and everyone.

There has been 1 instance that I reported to the monitor and I am happy to know that the monitor DOES pay attention and felt that indeed the poster was to be removed as it was becoming less that civil towards our regular posters. So we all say, "thank you HOATALK monitor. We do appreciate your diligence."
JakeS
(South Carolina)

Posts:24


02/16/2008 3:34 PM  
I am glad this website wants and encourages honest opinions even when we do not always agree. Awareness on issues is important to our society.

BillL3
(Texas)

Posts:28


04/10/2009 11:04 AM  
Ok, for everyone that followed this along for the few months it was going on in the HOA Talk forum....It is STILL on going and has been to court 3 times and been dismissed by 3 judges. The HOA has refiled in a higher court now and is set to go to trial again on June 1, 2009. WARNING to anyone ever taking on a HOA...You better have a pocket very deep to fight with them because they only want money and that is the bottom line....not broke yet and still fighting in Texas. Hey Miss Donna, you sold that swampland yet???
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


04/10/2009 5:16 PM  

I was not going to respond to this ongoing singular attack against me but there comes a point when enough is enough. HOATALK asked Bill to play nice and he just does not seem to be able to let go. This is reflected in his 3 times to court with his HOA and now there will be another court date. He thinks it is fun to go after Donna from the swamplands. Boy, I do feel badly for his HOA and all who have to deal with this guy. Below are his "afterthoughts" on each of his posts.

12/05/2007 6:50 PM
Soooo, miss Donna in Florida...may the sun shine very brightly on you!!

12/05/2007 8:20 PM Quote Reply
Hey miss Donna in the Florida sunshine...I would hope you are never subjected to a life threatening disease or a stroke as myself was that might leave you disabled and needing some form of special transportation....this coach does make it possible for me to continue to do my job that I have done for 11 years. You are nothing but a HATER like the others that run this HOA here in texas.......Have a GREAT DAY!! LOSER.....

12/06/2007 7:15 AM Quote Reply
Posted By BillL3 on 12/05/2007 5:20 PM
Hey miss Donna in the Florida sunshine...I would hope you are never subjected to a life threatening disease or a stroke as myself was that might leave you disabled and needing some form of special transportation....this coach does make it possible for me to continue to do my job that I have done for 11 years. You are nothing but a HATER like the others that run this HOA here in texas.......Have a GREAT DAY!! LOSER.....


BillL3: Please review our posting rules, specifically "Post any relevant topic you like, but please keep it clean, helpful, positive and friendly." Your comments to DonnaS are out of line and break our rules. Please stick to the facts and avoid name calling.

Thank You,
HOATalk.com

12/06/2007 2:36 PM I will win this suit in court in January when we go and NO I am not interested in any Florida swampland....

01/16/2008 11:19 AM Quote Reply
OK, I am back. On December 4, 2007 written that I would win this case, AND I DID. In Closing I am VERY glad that the Judge in my case was not a judge from "The Florida Sunshine" or a friend of Miss Donna's...BillL

04/10/2009 2:04 PM Quote Reply
Ok,. Hey Miss Donna, you sold that swampland yet???

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


04/10/2009 9:12 PM  
I'm confused Donna.

"This is reflected in his 3 times to court with his HOA and now there will be another court date. He thinks it is fun to go after Donna from the swamplands. Boy, I do feel badly for his HOA and all who have to deal with this guy. Below are his "afterthoughts" on each of his posts."

Bill was Po'd, didn't agree with you, nor you him but how is his lack of willingness to play nice with you reflected in his 3 times to court?

We all know the resources of a HOA are hard to match despite the most legitimate of HO battles. He'd probably rather not spend the money or have the fight for the sake OF the fight on this issue.
DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


04/10/2009 9:13 PM  
PS if it was dismissed 3X it doesn't sound like he is picking the fight does it?
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


04/10/2009 9:47 PM  
Well, assuming it was the HOA's side that was dismissed 3xs, and not his counter-suit.

He doesn't have a great track record of either telling the whole story or telling it accurately, either.

Just sayin'
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


04/10/2009 9:49 PM  
And he might be a happier person if he didn't hold grudges and drag them out ad nauseum.

It is pretty nasty to keep taking shots at her every time he posts.
DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


04/11/2009 7:31 AM  
Posted By MicheleD on 04/10/2009 9:47 PM
Well, assuming it was the HOA's side that was dismissed 3xs, and not his counter-suit.

He doesn't have a great track record of either telling the whole story or telling it accurately, either.

Just sayin'





"....It is STILL on going and has been to court 3 times and been dismissed by 3 judges."

1. If the judge is ruling for him and dismissing 'something' 3X it isn't the HO that is dragging this out, and it is the HOA refiling.

2. I agree the digs against Florida swampland shouldn't continue. There is some very nice swampland and I understand they throw in Pythons for free. I read about the Python problem the other day.
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


04/11/2009 8:58 AM  
Posted By DJ1 on 04/11/2009 7:31 AM
Posted By MicheleD on 04/10/2009 9:47 PM
Well, assuming it was the HOA's side that was dismissed 3xs, and not his counter-suit.

He doesn't have a great track record of either telling the whole story or telling it accurately, either.

Just sayin'





"....It is STILL on going and has been to court 3 times and been dismissed by 3 judges."

1. If the judge is ruling for him and dismissing 'something' 3X it isn't the HO that is dragging this out, and it is the HOA refiling.







DJ, that is my point exactly. We only have HIS version of the "dismissals." We have no idea, really, what has been dismissed OR WHY the suit(s) were dismissed.

And given his track record with "truth" and/or accuracy (and/or withholding pertinent details), I'm not so inclined to take his posts at face value.

I'm not arguing it one way or the other, I just take his "version" of things with a grain of salt.

That's all I'm sayin'.

MaryA1


Posts:0


04/11/2009 9:05 AM  
As evidenced by the title he put on this thread "disabled & feeling harrassed by HOA" I wonder if Bill isn't using his disability to hopefully get his way. I read the first part of the thread and couldn't see where this was a "disability" issue. In fact, Bill violated the CCRs by putting in the gate w/o permission. This just goes to show that some people will spend any amount of money to prove they're right -- even when they're wrong! I know of a case here in AZ where the HOA member sued her BOD, spending approx $one million in the process, over a board election issue. She lost and almost lost her home (and several others she owned in the same HOA) to foreclosure in the process.
RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164


04/11/2009 9:06 AM  
Michele,
Have to agree with you Michele. I don't think your comments were unclear and not because I agree with them.

Certainly Dj comments are worthy and I think you spoke to that as well.
RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164


04/11/2009 9:19 AM  
Mary,
When you hear and read of some of this stuff, it seems clear that no one wins. They seem to escalate on how much misunderstanding there is between the two parties. Each to blame at some critical point in the sage, one party will do something stupid and the whole thing falls apart and your friendly Lawyers step in. I don't imagine there is few cases that lawyers don't shake hands and put things behind them at the end of these kind of cases. Whereas the HOA and the HO will never shake hands and put it behind them.
DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


04/11/2009 4:23 PM  
Posted By MaryA1 on 04/11/2009 9:05 AM
As evidenced by the title he put on this thread "disabled & feeling harrassed by HOA" I wonder if Bill isn't using his disability to hopefully get his way. I read the first part of the thread and couldn't see where this was a "disability" issue. In fact, Bill violated the CCRs by putting in the gate w/o permission. This just goes to show that some people will spend any amount of money to prove they're right -- even when they're wrong! I know of a case here in AZ where the HOA member sued her BOD, spending approx $one million in the process, over a board election issue. She lost and almost lost her home (and several others she owned in the same HOA) to foreclosure in the process.




Mary, we can all wonder about this or that since like any other post here, it is only one side/version upon which we all make our comments.

Saying that, it makes me wonder when you say,

"In fact, Bill violated the CCRs by putting in the gate w/o permission. This just goes to show that some people will spend any amount of money to prove they're right -- even when they're wrong!"

I don't think that is a fair assessment. Just because there is a CCR saying something, doesn't mean it is correct or that when a HO breaks the CCR it somehow means they were in the wrong. That is too black and white.

CCR's have to be 'adjusted' to recognize disabilities, new energy efficiency requirements, the era when they were written etc.

Was putting in the gate wrong? If its purpose is cosmetic, yes, if its purpose assists a disabled person function better, no, regardless of whether there is a CCR.

We read time and time again of examples where there is a CCR that prohibits construction of a wheelchair ramp, or a guy who couldn't bring a shopping buggy up the elevator so he parked it in the garage, or something else where they 'violated a CCR' but that in no way means the CRR is 'right' and they were 'wrong'. If these people "spend any amount of money to prove they're right" it doesn't mean "they're wrong!"

Hope that makes sense.
DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


04/11/2009 4:27 PM  
Robert,

I couldn't help but laugh when you said this,

"I don't imagine there is few cases that lawyers don't shake hands and put things behind them at the end of these kind of cases. Whereas the HOA and the HO will never shake hands and put it behind them."

The reason why is simple,

The lawyers BOTH walk away with their pockets full of money....one or both of the HO, HOA walk away with their pockets much lighter.
RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164


04/11/2009 4:38 PM  
Mary,
I just didn't want to say what I was thinking.
JohnB7
(South Carolina)

Posts:176


04/11/2009 5:19 PM  
1. Many people who purchase into a HOA have no idea that they are waiving many constitutional and/or property rights.

2. As per the ADA no notification or permission is necessary for 'reasonable accomodations'. (reasonable as defined by the general population, most of which are NOT HOA members)

3. HOAs are wonderful when they work well, but many are operated by well intentioned but totally inept volunteers (such as myself).

Federal, State, and Local Laws and regulations TRUMP OUR PUNY CC&Rs.

4. Lawyer shopping to get the desired opinion is often used along with the 'deep pockets' of the HOA in order to prevail over trivia.
If the documents had been written well in the first place AND PROPERLY DISTRIBUTED TO POTENTIAL BUYERS (were there no For Sale signs posted)we would have far far far fewer problems.

opinion: the man will be dead soon, give him the benefit of the doubt
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


04/11/2009 5:43 PM  
Nope. I may be dead tomorrow, too, but that doesn't give me leeway to break rules or laws or regulations, etc.

Besides, I don't think the fence issue is the big one.

This is part of the pattern the OP has of not telling the whole truth, or only releasing information that he thinks is in his favor.

The issue, from what I recall, and I don't feel like going back and re-reading, but just for the sake of clarity, the issue I recall is the parking of the RV.

He wants to park/store it in his driveway because he and his wife drive it a lot, especially during (fishing?) season . . . some seasonal thing he does.

He is trying to claim that his disability necessitates parking/storing it in his driveway.

So on the one hand, Mary was correct, but it wasn't just over the fencing issue.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164


04/11/2009 6:07 PM  
John,
Can I suggest we stay in the ballpark and you give some consideration to what you say. I am crusted enough I take no offense to your remark, "The man will be dead soon, give him the benefit of the doubt. I care for my disabled and partially bedbound wife in our condo. I find folks are very accommodating and offer her all the help they can. I don't think this site deserves to be quoted with your kind of remark. Unless you know something I don't, you nor anyone else else knows when your death will arrive. But if you are privy to this information, I sure hope you don't post it here. Life is confusing enough without someone predicting your death accurately or even close.

I understand we all have opinions, but I am sure you would not want to hear some of mine.

Cut some slack John.
The rest of your post has a lot of good things to say about it.
JohnB7
(South Carolina)

Posts:176


04/11/2009 8:21 PM  
RobertR1;

I retract: "opinion: xxx xxx xxxx xx xxxx xxxx, give him the benefit of the doubt".

Your opinions are always welcome.

Thank you for steering me back onto the path ... sometimes I am rather abrasive.

John B.
JohnB7
(South Carolina)

Posts:176


04/11/2009 8:30 PM  
MicheleD,

Evidently the courts disagree with you.
Perhaps you would prefer a large GenPac to be installed in his backyard.
Evidently the "RV" has been equipped for his disability and is used (perhaps not as often as YOU would like) for his work related fishing activities. Other identical driveways HAVE been allowed to remain in his developement.

As per Federal Law .... if in doubt the ADA wins out.

I have been 'warned' by RobertR1 not to voice the rest of my opinion .....

John B.
JohnB7
(South Carolina)

Posts:176


04/11/2009 8:30 PM  
MicheleD,

Evidently the courts disagree with you.
Perhaps you would prefer a large GenPac to be installed in his backyard.
Evidently the "RV" has been equipped for his disability and is used (perhaps not as often as YOU would like) for his work related fishing activities. Other identical driveways HAVE been allowed to remain in his developement.

As per Federal Law .... if in doubt the ADA wins out.

I have been 'warned' by RobertR1 not to voice the rest of my opinion .....

John B.
DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


04/11/2009 8:50 PM  
I have a large (13kw) genpac in my sideyard permanently fixed to the side of my house and you are right, a mobile one is better. Bill's won't always be runnning at the house, mine will. (whenever there is a power outage). Course my neighbours don't mind the noise cause when the power is out they run plugs from my outside (GFI protected) outlets to their sump pumps etc.
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


04/11/2009 9:49 PM  
Posted By JohnB7 on 04/11/2009 8:30 PM
MicheleD,

Evidently the courts disagree with you.
Perhaps you would prefer a large GenPac to be installed in his backyard.
Evidently the "RV" has been equipped for his disability and is used (perhaps not as often as YOU would like) for his work related fishing activities. Other identical driveways HAVE been allowed to remain in his developement.

As per Federal Law .... if in doubt the ADA wins out.

I have been 'warned' by RobertR1 not to voice the rest of my opinion .....

John B.




John -- apples and oranges and you know it.

We don't know what the courts agreed to yet, and, surprise surprise, claims like his don't always win. As DJ pointed out, if his need is for the GenPac for his disability, he can accomplish that without violating the restrictions, he can get a permanent one installed.

Regardless, I never gave a position one way or the other, but was simply explaining that the apparent violation (according to the HOA) WAS ALSO the parked RV, in addition to whatever fence/driveway construction thingie was brought up.




RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164


04/11/2009 9:57 PM  
John,
Thank you for your response.
I am really not blowing smoke when I say I think your response was well presented and thoughtful. We really can use help on the site (always), I and several others feel some folks might be slipping through the cracks, so to eak. Also we have some smart minds posting here and like all thinkers welcome new opinions and the knowledge to be shared.
MaryA1


Posts:0


04/12/2009 8:03 AM  
DJ,

I don't recall Bill saying anything about wanting the gate because of his disability. But he did say he'd been parking his RV on the street and when he received the violation letter he decided he should be parking it behind the wall, ergo the need for a gate. It was my impression he wants to keep his RV at his residence instead of paying to have it stored, which is what others with RVs do. There was never any mention of this action being a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act; at least I didn't read it anywhere in this thread. He also did not say this is the only vehicle he owns, meaning it must be used for all his travels (to the grocery store, the doctors office, etc., etc.)
DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


04/12/2009 8:21 AM  
MaryA1,

BillL3 said "The 70 ft concrete driveway and electric gate in the wrought iron fence was also disapproved by the HOA 3 different times, BUT the judge because I cannot get out and open a gate to gain access to my property also made the HOA approve my gate & driveway."

This is why I understood the gate was justified due to the disability.

Further he was keeping the RV on-site because it provided him with certain services (generator) that were not otherwise available without additional expenditure ie.installing one at home.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


04/12/2009 8:37 AM  
Michele,

It might be incorrect to say,

"As DJ pointed out, if his need is for the GenPac for his disability, he can accomplish that without violating the restrictions, he can get a permanent one installed."

Installing a home based genpac is likely also a violation of some of the other common CCRs (although we don't know all of his CCR's)

In my case, it would violate several right away, and that isn't including the ones that would require prior approval before installation assuming he could get the ARC to even approve, ie. 1. Nuisance due to the noise (when running) 2. No machinery/equipment allowed unless related to maintenance/repair of home etc.

The RV provides more than one service (genpac) so forcing him to incur additional expense to install a permanent genpac at home wouldn't eliminate his need for a second one.

It isn't an either/or, home vs rv based genpac, it would then be a home vs home AND rv based genpac/concentrator/wheelchair transport etc since he needs it on the road too.
MaryA1


Posts:0


04/12/2009 8:39 AM  
Posted By DJ1 on 04/12/2009 8:21 AM
MaryA1,

BillL3 said "The 70 ft concrete driveway and electric gate in the wrought iron fence was also disapproved by the HOA 3 different times, BUT the judge because I cannot get out and open a gate to gain access to my property also made the HOA approve my gate & driveway."

This is why I understood the gate was justified due to the disability.

Further he was keeping the RV on-site because it provided him with certain services (generator) that were not otherwise available without additional expenditure ie.installing one at home.





DJ,

Interesting, he says the judge made the HOA approve his gate and driveway because "I cannot get out and open a gate to gain access to my property". This doesn't make sense to me. The HOA must approve the gate because he can't open a gate???? I think we're missing alot!
RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164


04/12/2009 9:13 AM  
Could we agree that indeed, there is a lot we don't know, and a lot we are missing, because we don't know all. It also seems clear that these things are all interconnected. Personally, they are all in the proper place (before a judge), who will judge.

In retrospect, it may have been better for the Regime to invite Bill to an arbitration table before things got out of hand (is there a lesson there?) As far as Bill is concerned, he apparently is getting what he wanted also, and again we don't know enough to know if justice will be done. Our lesson, might be to quickly advise any questions, that have to do with taking sides between the handicaped and the associations, that we advise the matter be turned over to the legislation covering handicap accessability. Obviously, our Federal Givernment thinks it is special enough, they created laws to cover handicaped folks.
DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


04/12/2009 9:20 AM  
Mary there is ALOT that is interesting,

Wrought iron fence approved in 2003 but now HOA complains about 17 year old window ac/shed because they can be seen throught the wrought iron fence.

He has a corner lot which permits access from either road yet his driveway request is denied...yet 16 others with corner lots have em. Yup, a gravel or dirt road on his lot would be FAR more harmonious with the neighbourhood.

A gate on a fence kind of makes sense to me since it completes the ability to enclose a property, otherwise the fence is just cosmetic. An electric gate makes even more sense if one has mobility issues.

How can one not feel like they are being targeted (for whatever reason) when they are experiencing these things at it seems to have started in 2007 and he's lived there at least 17 years.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


04/12/2009 11:32 AM  
DJ, I have no intention of "debating" this man's alleged "requirement" for a Disability-enabled RV to be parked in his driveway. There is no way on this green earth we could ever get enough accurate and truthful information from him to base any legitimate discussion.

My point was that this poster has a habit of presenting misleading and down-right contradictory comments, and he also has a penchant for carrying grudges, as indicated by his consistent and uncalled-for swipes and snipes at Donna.


The fact of the matter is also that we have no idea if or not permanent generators are allowed in the HOA in question.

Ours doesn't disallow them, and neither do several neighboring HOAs that I've queried (yes, I did ask).

But all of them, and mine, do not allow for an RV to be parked in the driveway.

Again, we have no idea if a judge or court has "allowed" his RV scam, because that's what it is, regardless. All we know is what he dribbled out to us, and, based on his prior posts, I believe ANYTHING he says about as much as I believe in a Flying Spaghetti Monster.

My take? He does not want to be inconvenienced to park or store it off-site. But my take and $2.39 will get you a glass of iced tea. (Shocking how much iced tea goes for these days!)

There. I took a position.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


04/12/2009 12:06 PM  

Thank You MIchelle,

I think that the real bottom line or defense argument coming from the O.P is his disability and that to me is not what his HOA has been fighting with him about. Everyone wants to accomodate disabled people and that is what we all well should. This is an argument between his HOA and his not willing to try to bend some to work within the covenants and what he wants.

PLEASE!!! do not accuse me of not being sympathetic. I cared for my disabled, dimensia riddled Mother in my home for 9 years without having any time away from it. I know a disabled persons pain.

If everyone would go back to post number 1, it tells his story and how this was going to be his way or no way.

If we read the ADA, no where does it say that they get priority treatment in so many respects. It says that we are to make accomodations, not create priorities. And then there is abuse--a whole nother subject. How many hundreds of thousands of handicapped vehicle tags get abused everywhere? The O.P wants his motorhome along side his home when everyone else has to park theirs in a designated area. The generator story? Does Texas lose power regularily? Sorry but I smell something and I continue to call it like I see it.
MaryA1


Posts:0


04/12/2009 4:04 PM  
I agree with Donna's assessment of Bill. I get the distinct impression he is hiding behind his disability in order to get his way. It surely would be nice if we could somehow get the real story. You know there are 3 sides to every story, yours, mine and truth. So far we've only heard one side!
JohnB7
(South Carolina)

Posts:176


04/12/2009 5:07 PM  
Suppose, just for the sake of argument, that he IS hiding behind his disability.

----Tough Luck----

The ADA trumps all CC&Rs and REQUIRES any doubts to be decided in favor of the disabled person.

If he were not part of a HOA would the vehicle be reasonable given his needs?

AS PER FEDERAL LAW ..... CASE CLOSED

(the law was specifically written to protect people like him from people like us)


Happy Easter to all, and
Peace On Eath To All Men Of Good Will
BillL3
(Texas)

Posts:28


04/12/2009 5:09 PM  
OK....I guess I will just sit back here and let all of these old women kick on me, cos if I say anything about them, I get my a__ eat on by the HOA Talk folks...BUT it is ok for these old women to call me a liar and cant tell the same thing twice and not tell the truth from the start....WELL, I can tell you all that I have told the truth of all that has been stated from me. As soon as this is finally over (hopfully on June 1) I will make all of this very public so that anyone in my situation can obtain my attorney and whoop the crooked, rule bending, money hungry HOA's of America. BTW...the 3X that this has been dismissed has been in my favor, not the HOA's BUT they have taken it to a higher court each time and can only go one more after this step if they choose too and that will be to the supreme court....They are wasting the home owners dues money fighting this case that they are going to lose in the end...All of you that have stated that you were done with this thread....Be done or be a liar!.....
BillL3
(Texas)

Posts:28


04/12/2009 5:13 PM  
THANK YOU JOHN FOR HAVING SOME COMPASSION!!! HAPPY EASTER TO ALL OF YOU TOO!!!
DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


04/12/2009 6:19 PM  
Michele, he already indicated the RV was providing more than one function. Not just the generator so power outages are just one aspect of the need.
JohnB7
(South Carolina)

Posts:176


04/12/2009 6:44 PM  
BillL3,

No need for name calling ... don't play the name game.

If you have given us the correct info you will win the case.

Remember:

To catch a fly use honey, not vinegar.

I am a 5 year veteran of HOA membership and when I first became aware of what I had agreed to by purchasing into a HOA I was appalled.

The constitution guarrantees me the right to waive my constitutional rights, which I actually did by purchasing the property. It stinks, but, when dealt lemons ... make lemonade.

To win at any 'game' one must learn the rules better than one's opponent(s) ... most HOA BODs don't have a clue as to their responsibility under their state's Not-For-Profit Corporation laws .... not to mention their general mis-understanding of the documents and all applicable federal, state, and local laws.

Let the best attorney (not necessarilly the best case) win.

Who knows, if they are TRULY harrassing you, you may even get punitive damages .... which you will help pay for with the community assessment............................

WHY CAN"T EVERYONE GET ALONG AND PLAY NICE??!!
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


04/12/2009 7:03 PM  
Posted By DJ1 on 04/12/2009 6:19 PM
Michele, he already indicated the RV was providing more than one function. Not just the generator so power outages are just one aspect of the need.





So what?

Again: scam.
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


04/12/2009 7:19 PM  
Posted By JohnB7 on 04/12/2009 5:07 PM
Suppose, just for the sake of argument, that he IS hiding behind his disability.

----Tough Luck----

The ADA trumps all CC&Rs and REQUIRES any doubts to be decided in favor of the disabled person.




The first part is okay (minus the "tough luck"-will address that later), everything after the "and" doesn't even make sense.
Posted By JohnB7 on 04/12/2009 5:07 PM
If he were not part of a HOA would the vehicle be reasonable given his needs?



Again, doesn't apply. What he does with an RV when there are no restrictions is his business. But when there's restrictions involved, just saying, "look at me! I have a disability!" does not necessarily award him a perpetual "get out of jail free" card.

Like I said before, I'm not getting into a tit-for-tat or a debate on his RV and his "alleged" need for it due to his disability. I don't believe it and taunting me with comments like "tough luck" not only won't change my opinion, they actually make me chuckle because it's so childish!

Posted By JohnB7 on 04/12/2009 5:07 PM

AS PER FEDERAL LAW ..... CASE CLOSED



Not really, right? Because apparently the "case" is still going on...

Posted By JohnB7 on 04/12/2009 5:07 PM
(the law was specifically written to protect people like him from people like us)

Happy Easter to all, and
Peace On Eath To All Men Of Good Will





And many times people "like him" take advantage of people "like us" to get around the rules.

It works both ways. Really. The law also protects people like us from being scammed and taken advantage of by people like him. There is no rubber stamp. I know of plenty of people with disabilities who discovered they can't have carte blanch because of them.

Is he actually doing that? I dunno. It feels like it to me.

And, again, since we can only ever hear his side of it, which we already know is deeply covered in fertilizer, we will forever have to agree to disagree about 1) what is actually going on in his HOA and 2) what the final resolution actually turns out to be.

Sort of a "forever" fairy tale! Cool!

At any rate, we don't have to believe him because he's disabled. Disabled people are capable of spin, too.

But we can and should expect him to stop harassing OTHER people, like Donna (since he allegedly is so "aware" of how it feels to be "harassed").
AnneH2
(Florida)

Posts:82


04/12/2009 9:00 PM  
I think that Bill's handicap is his personality and it preceeded his physical issues. I feel for his wife and those in his HOA. He had me on his side with his first post, but I'm over him and think the moderators should caution him again about his personal attacks.

I've referred folks to this site, but several have mentioned posters such as Bill as their reason for losing interest in this forum. They stay for the news clips.

The posters that he has attacked are some of the most knowledgable and helpful on the site, IMO. And the fact that he hasn't commented on the poster (male) who stated that Bill wouldn't be alive for long makes me think he has issues with women.

Do the moderators ever put members on a time out?
RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164


04/12/2009 9:36 PM  
The direct answer to your last question is , "yes", but the folks that do this are a mystery voice as far as responses to posters are concerned. The regular here pride our selves on avoiding nastiness and name calling. We have gotten very vocal a time or two. As far as "time outs" are concerned, the regular posters need that more than the ranters.
My grandmother used to say of golks she could not please, "Mrs so and so, you are a caution." We do get a few cautions now and them.

A message to the people that are turned off by some who post here. If you can find a better Blog, please find one and let us know, we all might jump ship...........just kidding, but.....maybe not.
JohnB7
(South Carolina)

Posts:176


04/13/2009 4:47 AM  

"If he were not part of a HOA would the vehicle be reasonable given his needs?


Again, doesn't apply. What he does with an RV when there are no restrictions is his business. But when there's restrictions involved, just saying, "look at me! I have a disability!" does not necessarily award him a perpetual "get out of jail free" card."


It DOES APPLY !!!!!

A reasonable accomodation has nothing to do with HOA or CC&Rs.

If it is reasonable to get a vehicle with a generator, a bed, a wheelchair ramp, a xxx, etc. in order to accomodate a disability then the HOA would be UNREASONABLE to disallow the parking thereof.

ps. -how it feels to you- has no bearing on the issue
anyone can sue anuone anytime - sometimes the judge will award damages for frivoulous suits
if the HOA had been consistently enforcing it's CC&Rs this problem would not have occured - why are we/you now selecting a disabled person for driveway enforcement - 'aesthetics' after such a period of time
RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164


04/13/2009 5:01 AM  
You all are on a slippery sloop and if you don't get this behind you, it will become nasty and name calling. You can feel the hostility building. Go answer some other posts.

If you can't do that, then best to take it off line. No one is condemming Handicap People. Why would they do that, it has never happened on this site that I know of.

With this forum it is common to mis-understand each other we do it all the time........and no subject is off limits.
GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)

Posts:975


04/13/2009 5:02 AM  
Posted By JohnB7 on 04/13/2009 4:47 AM

"If he were not part of a HOA would the vehicle be reasonable given his needs?


Again, doesn't apply. What he does with an RV when there are no restrictions is his business. But when there's restrictions involved, just saying, "look at me! I have a disability!" does not necessarily award him a perpetual "get out of jail free" card."


It DOES APPLY !!!!!

A reasonable accomodation has nothing to do with HOA or CC&Rs.

If it is reasonable to get a vehicle with a generator, a bed, a wheelchair ramp, a xxx, etc. in order to accomodate a disability then the HOA would be UNREASONABLE to disallow the parking thereof.

ps. -how it feels to you- has no bearing on the issue
anyone can sue anuone anytime - sometimes the judge will award damages for frivoulous suits
if the HOA had been consistently enforcing it's CC&Rs this problem would not have occured - why are we/you now selecting a disabled person for driveway enforcement - 'aesthetics' after such a period of time
Thank you, John for saying what needed to be said.


DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


04/13/2009 6:01 AM  
Michele, I think the timeline is important here when you say 'scam'.

He's lived there for a least 17 years. It wasn't until 2007, AFTER his stroke, that he purchased the RV ... was the need created which the RV provides that helps to minimize the physical impacts of the disability.

Another type of vehicle couldn't provide the same services, nor could a home based generator would solve those limitations in and of itself.

You suggested the frequency of power outages as a reason to question the need for the generator, and then when I suggest a reasonable reason why, you say so what, scam? Then why put it out there if you aren't willing to listen to others peoples ideas?
JohnB7
(South Carolina)

Posts:176


04/13/2009 6:02 AM  
RobertR1,

Most sloops are slippery in the rain

I am not upset and will not get out of hand, but, as HOA members, volunteers, BODs, we must realize that people do have rights granted by Federal, State, and Local Laws and regulations which TRUMP the CC&Rs.

Can some people stretch these rights? Sure.
Can some BODs be 'Fascist' and/or non-compliant? Sure.

The courts generally do a good job of sorting things out.

Don't worry ............. be happy
DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


04/13/2009 6:22 AM  
AnneH

Aren't you and some others doing the same thing as Bill?

You say, "I think that Bill's handicap is his personality and it preceeded his physical issues."

I'm not trying to point fingers cause in the heat of the moment I do it too (I try not to) BUT,

Having dealt with stroke affected persons it IS a known symptom to have personality changes. It doesn't make Bill's comments about ol lady's, swampland, donna etc right but it equally doesn't make it right to continually say scam, etc. Let's assume you are right for a moment, then I would question why the first mention of any complaints by the HOA occurred AFTER his stroke (no Michele that doesn't mean he is necessarily USING his disability to get his way...kind of chicken and egg thing, it could equally means that a need was created by the stroke and the solution was what he did)

No one HAS to respond to any post or thread so there is a little bit of back and forth going on by BOTH sides imo. (again I'm trying to be sincere and not hurt anyones feelings).

We can't dismiss the mindset when a person posts. He posted a synopsis of a problem, if it isn't complete it DOESN'T mean he is hiding anything, it just means he may not have explained all aspects because he is focusing on certain parts/concerns. How does a person who feels they are being harassed, who comes here and posts, and then gets a response that makes him feel he is now being attacked here, going to feel? (I'm not saying he WAS, but that he feels he was)

We should all step back and decide if we are so outraged by his 'attacks', why would we respond in kind to further aggravate his perception he was being attacked, thus perpetuating this back and forth, instead of complaining to HOA talk? Respond to the RV/Driveway/gate issue or don't respond and complain to HOAtalk. Ya can't complain about Bill if you're doing the same thing and I think calling him a scammer etc serves no purpose but to do that.

We all make suggestions to a problem but none of us have all the facts even with the most well intentioned poster posting a question but don't turn that around to imply someone is trying to mislead or scam. The goal is to help, someone comes here for help, if you side for or against them based on the facts, but it later turns out you were wrong in the advice because the person loses, it isn't you who suffers, it is they, because they mislead. Right?

Just my rambling thoughts not intended to insult anyone.
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


04/13/2009 6:57 AM  
No insult received.

But again, DJ, I refuse to "argue" any point regarding this individual since I've already come to the conclusion that nothing he says is reliable.

You want to discuss a timeline and some assertions about his "needed" RV that I simply don't buy into.

We might as well be arguing, or, excuse me, discussing, whether the wind is blowing outside right now.

Were we in the same location at the same time (ie, on the same page), it would be a legitimate discussion.

Since I can only argue what is going on outside my window and you only regarding what is outside yours, then we can never come to consensus. We would both be correct, considering our respective positions to each other's window.

In MY opinion, based on what I perceive, he is running a scam and his original intent in coming to his forum was to drum up support for his position.

And please don't presume that others here have not had intimate working experience with and knowledge of stroke victims, let alone individuals with other disabilities that have affected one's quality of life.

I will never be convinced, based on my experiences with and knowledge of individuals with strokes and other disabilities that a recreational RV, outfitted to make the individual's use of the RV easier due to one's disability, is also imperative for that same role while parked in the driveway of that person's permanent home.

It's gonna take a lot more than a hypothetical back-and-forth on a web forum to change that position.

And, again, his demeanor and his own "faulty" reporting have contributed to that position.

John, by the way, that particular post with the smiley faces is dead on.



EllenS1
(Florida)

Posts:1148


04/13/2009 7:29 AM  
Posted By BillL3 on 04/12/2009 5:09 PM
OK....I guess I will just sit back here and let all of these old women kick on me, cos if I say anything about them, I get my a__ eat on by the HOA Talk folks...BUT it is ok for these old women to call me a liar and cant tell the same thing twice and not tell the truth from the start....WELL, I can tell you all that I have told the truth of all that has been stated from me. As soon as this is finally over (hopfully on June 1) I will make all of this very public so that anyone in my situation can obtain my attorney and whoop the crooked, rule bending, money hungry HOA's of America. BTW...the 3X that this has been dismissed has been in my favor, not the HOA's BUT they have taken it to a higher court each time and can only go one more after this step if they choose too and that will be to the supreme court....They are wasting the home owners dues money fighting this case that they are going to lose in the end...All of you that have stated that you were done with this thread....Be done or be a liar!.....





If this is in the courts and may be over by June why was it even necessary to post with your problem?
DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:798


04/13/2009 10:12 AM  
Ellen, he first posted it in 2007, it has gone to another level (appeal) set for June 2009
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


04/13/2009 10:19 AM  

DJ,

Yes this has gone on it seems like forever. From day 1, if anyone had read the disclaimer from our host, we know that this is a post that should have been avoided because of it already being in the legal system and his first statement saying that the lawyer says that "I will win" I avoided it until my gutt got all in a knot because of the nature of how it was posted. Sorry to say that we are now on pg 4 and still arguing about nothing. The bottom line is that this really has nothing to do about disability but the inability of the poster and his HOA not working together to find a compromise.
JohnB7
(South Carolina)

Posts:176


04/13/2009 11:20 AM  
We are not DISCUSSING nothing.

Why should a disabled person have to compromise?

Why does the HOA in question keep appealing when it loses in court?

Why does the typical HOA act like it has unlimited power when in reality because of contract law, state (not for profit) corporate law, federal-state-local law, code requirement law, and common law re: land use it has extremely LIMITED power?

Could it be because they can (improperly?) use the money collected from many to fight the one ..... even after they have lost in court many times?

Would this issue even arise if the disabled person in question was an attorney?

This sounds like a PITA resident is being singled out.

No CC&Rs will prevent him from being a PITA .... nor should they.

The Federal ADA exists .... it should be a criminal matter for a person of authority (elected or not) to disobey (willfully or not) .... however, we have the civil courts.

We all need to get lives and dump our computers.

JohnB7
(South Carolina)

Posts:176


04/13/2009 11:45 AM  
From ADA Title III:

"....reasonable modifications to policies, practices, and procedures..."

From Merriam-Webster:

Reasonable: being in accordance with reason ; not extreme or excessive


I am sure the HOA's BOD found a 'lawyer' willing to opine on their behalf ..... he gets paid no matter the outcome and then moves on to the next all-day lollipop.
Lawyers REALLY make money by appealing previous decisions!

The 'good faith' defense (against D&O), while legal, really stinks after multiple court dismissals. Can the BOD not read?

Perhaps Bill should really read the documents and sue the BOD to perform ALL their duties!
If the typical H/O knew what the BOD was actually supposed to do ......................
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