Get 1 year of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Friday, December 03, 2021











HOATalk is a free service of Community123.com:

Easy to use website tools to help your board
Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.
Subject: Annual Member Meeting - Pictures shown of Member
Prev Next
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Author Messages
HaleyH
(Illinois)

Posts:60


11/15/2021 9:58 AM  
I would like your opinions how to handle this situation we had at our annual member meeting:
A committee member (not a Board Member) presented pictures of another member who was allowing their dog to walk on the common area against the rules. We were using a projector for presenting HOA finacials, etc. and when it was his turn to present expense of a service we are considering - he used his time to show the member. He was called out of order, etc. but the damage was done. It caused a delay and we were unable to address all topics. So a new meeting will need to be scheduled. How would you handle this?
HenryS6
(Arizona)

Posts:111


11/15/2021 10:38 AM  
Not knowing more about the specific committee member and/or situation, I would probably have the board vote to have her removed from the committee. Misusing his / her bully pulpit in that fashion is not professional or appropriate and that person should not be given more time to misuse meeting time.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1594


11/15/2021 11:01 AM  
Really??? A picture of a member walking their dog on common area.
MichaelH34
(North Carolina)

Posts:64


11/15/2021 11:09 AM  
Sounds like more information is needed.

"walking" a dog in a common area is against the rules? Or is letting the dog defecate in a common area against the rules? Or leaving poop behind?

"his turn to present expense of a service we are considering"

Was the photo germane to the service being considered or was it off-topic?

If the photo was germane I wouldn't go so far as committee removal but would make sure that in future that presentations are approved beforehand and that everyone knows that showing a homeowner committing an infraction at a public meeting is a big no-no.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:2588


11/15/2021 11:28 AM  
I agree with Henry. The annual meeting is not the appropriate place to address violations, with or without supporting evidence.

Committee members generally serve at the pleasure of the board and can be removed with or without cause. This particular committee member displayed poor judgement as well as lack of understanding of proper procedures, which is reason enough to remove him if a reason is needed.
HaleyH
(Illinois)

Posts:60


11/15/2021 11:38 AM  
Sorry -- explanation was lean. The common area refers to our landscaping which borders our community -- dogs are not allowed there in case they relieve themselves there --there is no reason to go there.
The committe member was to present the cost of doing a service. He used part of that time to also show a member committing an infraction of the rules. It was off topic.... no matter what I wouldn't think highlighting a member via pictures at a meeting is acceptable.
MichaelH34
(North Carolina)

Posts:64


11/15/2021 11:45 AM  
HaleyH, based on your reply I'd have to join the "burn them!" camp. That was not the place to bring up an infraction.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:4284


11/15/2021 12:46 PM  
The committee member was out of line - it's good that he was called out of order, but I think he should also be compelled to apologize to the homeowner. If he was close enough to snap a photo, he could have walked over to the homeowner and politely reminded him of the rules.

Tell this committee member this is his first and final warning. He might not be a board member, but as a community volunteer to an advisory committee, he's held to a higher standard (many board members started as committee members, after all). If he has a complaint about a neighbor, he should be man enough to talk to the homeowner, or at least use whatever channels you have available to lodge a complaint. Tell him if he behaves like this again, he'll be removed from the committee.

Now, all of that said - this dog walker still broke the rule and he or she should also be reminded of that via a stern warning letter.



MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1594


11/15/2021 1:22 PM  
Posted By SheliaH on 11/15/2021 12:46 PM
Now, all of that said - this dog walker still broke the rule and he or she should also be reminded of that via a stern warning letter.



This is further evidence of why I made the right decision not to live in a HOA again.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:4284


11/15/2021 1:26 PM  
Ok, so how would YOU address this????? Or do you mind your yard being used as the neighborhood doggie toilet?

I don't believe in rules for the sake of having rules, but I also know I like a nice-looking front yard. It may be the community's common area, but does anyone want dogshit mounds everywhere?
HaleyH
(Illinois)

Posts:60


11/15/2021 1:31 PM  
Hi Sheila,
We have trees, shrubs, plantings invested in the common area. Dogs relievng themselves may harm our landscaping. Owners have access to their own front yards and, backyards (which they own). Also we are small community and they can quickly walk off the HOA property (one block) for their dogs to relieve themselves.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:4284


11/15/2021 1:34 PM  
Exactly! Max, are you listening!
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11659


11/15/2021 1:48 PM  
Posted By CathyA3 on 11/15/2021 11:28 AM
I agree with Henry. The annual meeting is not the appropriate place to address violations, with or without supporting evidence.

Committee members generally serve at the pleasure of the board and can be removed with or without cause. This particular committee member displayed poor judgement as well as lack of understanding of proper procedures, which is reason enough to remove him if a reason is needed.



I agree. Off with his head.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11659


11/15/2021 1:49 PM  
Posted By CathyA3 on 11/15/2021 11:28 AM
I agree with Henry. The annual meeting is not the appropriate place to address violations, with or without supporting evidence.

Committee members generally serve at the pleasure of the board and can be removed with or without cause. This particular committee member displayed poor judgement as well as lack of understanding of proper procedures, which is reason enough to remove him if a reason is needed.



I agree. Off with his head.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8720


11/15/2021 2:29 PM  
I assume you're on the Board, Haley? I agree with most others. Severely censure this committee member or remove him from the committee with a board motion, vote, etc.
BillD16
(Texas)

Posts:73


11/15/2021 3:12 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 11/15/2021 1:49 PM
Posted By CathyA3 on 11/15/2021 11:28 AM
I agree with Henry. The annual meeting is not the appropriate place to address violations, with or without supporting evidence.

Committee members generally serve at the pleasure of the board and can be removed with or without cause. This particular committee member displayed poor judgement as well as lack of understanding of proper procedures, which is reason enough to remove him if a reason is needed.



I agree. Off with his head.




I've noticed that actual meeting time is a valuable thing. I mean: there's a cost to getting everyone together at one time to go over an agenda. It's expensive. So I'd consider this incident like any expensive 'mistake' that a person might make: I might well lean towards "off with their head" although I'd try to consider things like youth, inexperience, and the general quality of their contribution. If it was a one-time aberration, maybe a stern warning is appropriate.

Just MHO,

Bill
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1594


11/15/2021 5:28 PM  
Posted By SheliaH on 11/15/2021 1:26 PM
Ok, so how would YOU address this????? Or do you mind your yard being used as the neighborhood doggie toilet?

I don't believe in rules for the sake of having rules, but I also know I like a nice-looking front yard. It may be the community's common area, but does anyone want dogshit mounds everywhere?



I have never managed a HOA that had such a rule. I would walk my dogs throughout our community every night. Yes, we had a front yard and a back yard that they go poop. My walking the dogs was exercise for both me and the dogs, and now a HOA says you can't let your animals walk on the HOA's grass because IT MIGHT take a pee. If my dogs ever pooped somewhere, I had something to pick it up with.

They you guys want to throw someone off a committee, censure them, hell why not castrate the person. Holy crap, what's the world come too. CHILL!
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8720


11/15/2021 5:53 PM  
Look, Max, the committee member clearly wanted a lot of bad things to happen to the dog owner. And he did his best to shame the dog owner. The comm. member ignored the agenda & trashed the annual meeting with his rogue behavior.

I can see BillD's point tryin to excuse the Comm member as ignorant of meeting protocol and conduct. Seems possible. Given the comm member's nasty behavior. As I wrote above, at the very least discipline him.

Our property too has a lot of landscaping: flower beds, planters with bushes in them. Dogs are certainly not allowed in those areas.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1594


11/15/2021 6:32 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 11/15/2021 5:53 PM
Look, Max, the committee member clearly wanted a lot of bad things to happen to the dog owner. And he did his best to shame the dog owner. The comm. member ignored the agenda & trashed the annual meeting with his rogue behavior.

I can see BillD's point tryin to excuse the Comm member as ignorant of meeting protocol and conduct. Seems possible. Given the comm member's nasty behavior. As I wrote above, at the very least discipline him.

Our property too has a lot of landscaping: flower beds, planters with bushes in them. Dogs are certainly not allowed in those areas.



You're going to get your panties in a bunch because a dog simply walked on the grass?
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8720


11/16/2021 8:47 AM  
I wanted folks to know that Haley's HOA isn't the only one that doesn't permit dogs on common area landscaping.

The Comm. member's disgusting conduct is Haley's subject.
HaleyH
(Illinois)

Posts:60


11/16/2021 12:39 PM  
Hi -- calling the area the 'common area' is what our HOA calls it -- but let me be clearer -- it is our landscaping that borders our community. Trees, shrubs, plantings are in our 'common area' and it is mulched no grass...so consider it a very large flower bed of a variety of plantings. That cannot be used by members to have their dogs poop. The member that is doing that is in the wrong, but the committee member using the annual meeting to embarrass her is way out of line. I am a Board member -- I couldn't believe a 70 year old man would do this. I wanted to get input if you all felt the same as I did... most do. Thanks. (I need to be clearer when I post topics -- )
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11659


11/16/2021 12:50 PM  
Posted By HaleyH on 11/16/2021 12:39 PM
Hi -- calling the area the 'common area' is what our HOA calls it -- but let me be clearer -- it is our landscaping that borders our community. Trees, shrubs, plantings are in our 'common area' and it is mulched no grass...so consider it a very large flower bed of a variety of plantings. That cannot be used by members to have their dogs poop. The member that is doing that is in the wrong, but the committee member using the annual meeting to embarrass her is way out of line. I am a Board member -- I couldn't believe a 70 year old man would do this. I wanted to get input if you all felt the same as I did... most do. Thanks. (I need to be clearer when I post topics -- )



Haley

No need to explain/justify your Rules & Regulations as they are yours and all agreed to them so they are what they are no matter what anyone else thinks.

It was improper for the Committee Member to publicly show/accuse another member. The Committee Member should be censured or removed.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1594


11/16/2021 1:11 PM  
A PM uploads finanicals onto a HOA web portal which has a delinquency list. A owner shows up to the Annual meeting with this list which contains the name of a Board member who is delinquent and calls them out for it. Is that alright?
MichaelH34
(North Carolina)

Posts:64


11/16/2021 1:14 PM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/16/2021 1:11 PM
A PM uploads finanicals onto a HOA web portal which has a delinquency list. A owner shows up to the Annual meeting with this list which contains the name of a Board member who is delinquent and calls them out for it. Is that alright?




What do the privacy laws or relevant HOA statutes in that hypothetical state say?
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8720


11/16/2021 1:29 PM  
Why are you changing the subject, Max? Is it because after your many years of property management, you're embarrassed that you just learned that not all HOAs have turf/grass? That some have only planters? We have 5,600 sf of them.

OR Is it because you think that it's OK for your hypothetical Owner to disrupt the annual meeting in this case? OR is it because you post delinquency lists on your customers' portals for all Owners to view?
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1594


11/16/2021 1:31 PM  
Posted By MichaelH34 on 11/16/2021 1:14 PM
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/16/2021 1:11 PM
A PM uploads finanicals onto a HOA web portal which has a delinquency list. A owner shows up to the Annual meeting with this list which contains the name of a Board member who is delinquent and calls them out for it. Is that alright?




What do the privacy laws or relevant HOA statutes in that hypothetical state say?



Let's say there is none.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1594


11/16/2021 1:33 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 11/16/2021 1:29 PM
Why are you changing the subject, Max? Is it because after your many years of property management, you're embarrassed that you just learned that not all HOAs have turf/grass? That some have only planters? We have 5,600 sf of them.

OR Is it because you think that it's OK for your hypothetical Owner to disrupt the annual meeting in this case? OR is it because you post delinquency lists on your customers' portals for all Owners to view?



Are we starting with the personal attacks again?
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1594


11/16/2021 1:45 PM  
No one here knows what the committee member was actually doing. Let's say they were on the Landscape Committee and were showing a proposal for a Poop Station where owners could pickup up a bag to pickup after their pets and a place to dispose of the poop. A picture happens to show a resident (maybe his wife) with their dog taking a dump. Sorry, pets have a habit of doing that, and responsible residents pickup after their pets.

The conversation from the OP started with can't be on common area, to grass or front yards to flower beds. If you're going to be that restrictive, why not just ban all animals.
MichaelH34
(North Carolina)

Posts:64


11/16/2021 1:47 PM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/16/2021 1:45 PM
No one here knows what the committee member was actually doing. Let's say they were on the Landscape Committee and were showing a proposal for a Poop Station where owners could pickup up a bag to pickup after their pets and a place to dispose of the poop. A picture happens to show a resident (maybe his wife) with their dog taking a dump. Sorry, pets have a habit of doing that, and responsible residents pickup after their pets.

The conversation from the OP started with can't be on common area, to grass or front yards to flower beds. If you're going to be that restrictive, why not just ban all animals.




Max, you haven't even attempted to get up to date with the OP's responses before throwing this out there. The answers are right ^^^ up ^^^ there ^^^
MichaelH34
(North Carolina)

Posts:64


11/16/2021 1:49 PM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/16/2021 1:31 PM
Posted By MichaelH34 on 11/16/2021 1:14 PM
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/16/2021 1:11 PM
A PM uploads finanicals onto a HOA web portal which has a delinquency list. A owner shows up to the Annual meeting with this list which contains the name of a Board member who is delinquent and calls them out for it. Is that alright?


What do the privacy laws or relevant HOA statutes in that hypothetical state say?



Let's say there is none.




Then my position for my HOA would be that the PM was in the wrong for putting that list in a public place. The financials don't need to be so specific that they list *who* is delinquent only that X members are delinquent.

I would say that the HOA has another problem in that they apparently have a board member that thinks they're above what's required of the other homeowners.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1594


11/16/2021 1:52 PM  
I have read every single post in this thread. So please READ the first post on this thread and tell me what it says, and then tell me where I have mis-read something.
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:793


11/16/2021 2:34 PM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/16/2021 1:52 PM
I have read every single post in this thread. So please READ the first post on this thread and tell me what it says, and then tell me where I have mis-read something.




The key issue raised in the original post is a committee member sidetracked the entire meeting because of an agenda item that was not planned for. The end result is another meeting now has to be scheduled because of this.

Somehow the thread got hijacked about dogs pissing and crapping in common areas. My original thought on the original post is that the Board failed to get the meeting back on track and allowed the crowd to run wild over what the committee member showed. All of these other issues should have been handled by the Board in another meeting after the annual meeting.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1594


11/16/2021 2:41 PM  
Posted By JohnT38 on 11/16/2021 2:34 PM
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/16/2021 1:52 PM
I have read every single post in this thread. So please READ the first post on this thread and tell me what it says, and then tell me where I have mis-read something.




The key issue raised in the original post is a committee member sidetracked the entire meeting because of an agenda item that was not planned for. The end result is another meeting now has to be scheduled because of this.

Somehow the thread got hijacked about dogs pissing and crapping in common areas. My original thought on the original post is that the Board failed to get the meeting back on track and allowed the crowd to run wild over what the committee member showed. All of these other issues should have been handled by the Board in another meeting after the annual meeting.



The question is, when it was his turn to present expense of a service we are considering what was he actually presenting? I gave one scenario where a picture could be used if the committee was presenting a proposal to add poop station(s). Maybe the picture was of the OP, who knows.

But, how in the hell does a meeting get that sidetracked because of one picture. You would be suprised at what a 70 year old man can really do.
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:793


11/16/2021 2:50 PM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/16/2021 2:41 PM
Posted By JohnT38 on 11/16/2021 2:34 PM
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/16/2021 1:52 PM
I have read every single post in this thread. So please READ the first post on this thread and tell me what it says, and then tell me where I have mis-read something.




The key issue raised in the original post is a committee member sidetracked the entire meeting because of an agenda item that was not planned for. The end result is another meeting now has to be scheduled because of this.

Somehow the thread got hijacked about dogs pissing and crapping in common areas. My original thought on the original post is that the Board failed to get the meeting back on track and allowed the crowd to run wild over what the committee member showed. All of these other issues should have been handled by the Board in another meeting after the annual meeting.



The question is, when it was his turn to present expense of a service we are considering what was he actually presenting? I gave one scenario where a picture could be used if the committee was presenting a proposal to add poop station(s). Maybe the picture was of the OP, who knows.

But, how in the hell does a meeting get that sidetracked because of one picture. You would be suprised at what a 70 year old man can really do.




I agree with "But, how in the hell does a meeting get that sidetracked because of one picture." and that was the point I was also raising. This was an annual meeting and unless the OP can shed light otherwise, someone did a poor job running this meeting and that is in my humble opinion the main issue.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11659


11/16/2021 3:35 PM  
JohnT

Good question about how did their meeting get so side tracked it required another meeting. Someone/people in charge, did not take charge.
HaleyH
(Illinois)

Posts:60


11/17/2021 9:51 AM  
Thank you all for your comments - though the original topic "showing picture of member at annual meeting" did take a few side routes / off the purpose of my original post.
I see that this group has members that demonstrate some aggression in their responses, which I'm not understanding.
You do not follow the adage there is no such thing as a stupid question?


HaleyH
(Illinois)

Posts:60


11/17/2021 9:51 AM  
Thank you all for your comments - though the original topic "showing picture of member at annual meeting" did take a few side routes / off the purpose of my original post.
I see that this group has members that demonstrate some aggression in their responses, which I'm not understanding.
You do not follow the adage there is no such thing as a stupid question?


JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11659


11/17/2021 11:43 AM  
Haley

Most posts do take side tracks as some just want to be a PIA.
HaleyH
(Illinois)

Posts:60


11/17/2021 2:46 PM  
Very funny -and so I am forewarned! LOL!
HenryS7
(Arizona)

Posts:73


11/17/2021 4:29 PM  
Posted By HaleyH on 11/17/2021 9:51 AM
Thank you all for your comments - though the original topic "showing picture of member at annual meeting" did take a few side routes / off the purpose of my original post.
I see that this group has members that demonstrate some aggression in their responses, which I'm not understanding.
You do not follow the adage there is no such thing as a stupid question?






The aggressions in this group tend to be two or three members that don't like each other and endlessly argue with each other. I believe those members posted in this thread. Sometimes people think that the aggressions are directed toward the OP, but they are not. They are just directed at each other.
BillD16
(Texas)

Posts:73


11/18/2021 5:56 AM  
Posted By HaleyH on 11/17/2021 9:51 AM

I see that this group has members that demonstrate some aggression in their responses, which I'm not understanding.




I’ve noticed this. I speculate that there may be some kind of self-selection mechanism, ie, that people who are active in HOA matters and motivated to read and contribute here may tend to be more aggressive than average.

That said, the members here are willing to share their considerable knowledge and experience, and (speaking for myself) I find them to be an outstanding resource.

Bill
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11659


11/18/2021 9:37 AM  
Posted By HenryS7 on 11/17/2021 4:29 PM
Posted By HaleyH on 11/17/2021 9:51 AM
Thank you all for your comments - though the original topic "showing picture of member at annual meeting" did take a few side routes / off the purpose of my original post.
I see that this group has members that demonstrate some aggression in their responses, which I'm not understanding.
You do not follow the adage there is no such thing as a stupid question?






The aggressions in this group tend to be two or three members that don't like each other and endlessly argue with each other. I believe those members posted in this thread. Sometimes people think that the aggressions are directed toward the OP, but they are not. They are just directed at each other.



If one hangs around and read the post, they will soon learn who those that do not like each other (one poster seems to like no one) and argue back and forth. Take them with a grain of salt.
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Annual Member Meeting - Pictures shown of Member



Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.







General Legal Notice:  The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com.  Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship.  Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.  HOATalk is not a licensed attorney, CPA, tax advisor, financial advisor or any other licensed professional.  HOATalk accepts ads from sponsors but does not verify sponsor qualifications nor endorse/guarantee any sponsor's product or service.
Legal Notice For Messages Posted by Sponsoring Attorneys: This message has been prepared by the sponsoring attorney for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send any sponsoring attorney confidential information unless you speak with the sponsoring attorney or an attorney from the sponsoring attorney’s firm and get authorization to send that information to them. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in the firm of the sponsoring attorney. Sponsoring attorneys that post messages here are licensed to practice law in a specific state or states as indicated in their message signature or sponsor’s profile page. (NOTE: A ‘sponsoring attorney’ is an attorney that is a HOATalk.com official sponsor and is identified as such in the posted message or on our sponsor page.)

Copyright HOA Talk.com, A Service of Community123 LLC ( Homeowners Association Discussions )   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement