Get 1 year of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Friday, December 03, 2021











HOATalk is a free service of Community123.com:

Easy to use website tools to help your board
Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.
Subject: Condo Maintenance Matrix
Prev Next
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Author Messages
JanineR
(Tennessee)

Posts:219


11/10/2021 9:22 AM  
Does anyone on this forum use a condo maintenance matrix or a responsibility matrix that they can share.

A document that shows if this happens then it is owners responsibility, if this happens then it is association responsibility, such as plumbing.

I know it won't match up with our property, or our governing documents, but it would be a great start if anyone has one.

PatJ1
(North Carolina)

Posts:290


11/10/2021 10:13 AM  
About 8 years ago we had our attorney review our CCR's and draft a memo that could be sent out to owner's claiming HOA responsibility. I think the memo cost us $1,500 for the attorney to supply. In the years since, it has been a valuable HOA tool and saved us much more than it cost. The HOA was paying for all interior damages at that time.

The memo included what the owner is responsible for. In our case pretty much walls in. It also explained the HOA's relationship to interior damages caused by HOA failures.

We are North Carolina, 40 year old, under $175,000, stacked condos, 2 high. If the roof suddenly leaks and causes interior damage to your unit, call your HO-6 insurance company and file a claim. HOA repairs the roof. If your upstairs neighbor's interior sink value blows and floods your unit, call your HO-6 insurance company and open a claim. If you don't have HO-6 insurance, you may foot a % of the bill up to the deductible per occurrence.

Our Master Policy deductible is $10,000 which has worked well for us. Only the HOA can open a claim by board vote. We work directly with owner's insurance adjuster's to determine if the HOA needs to open a Master Policy claim if damages exceed the $10,000 deductible. Since claims can cause insurance cancellations, the Board may vote to pay damages over $10,000 from our operating account.

It is very important that every board know how their Master Policy works and who is responsible for what. We have found this simple memo a tremendous asset with dealing interior damages.




Board members are volunteers. Many have no idea what they're doing. Educate them. Don't beat them up.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1594


11/10/2021 10:51 AM  
This is something your property manager should have.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1594


11/10/2021 11:07 AM  
If you do a Google search for "condo responsibility maintenance chart", you should find something that can be customized.
PatJ1
(North Carolina)

Posts:290


11/10/2021 11:22 AM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/10/2021 10:51 AM
This is something your property manager should have.




Our PM years ago had no idea and lead us in the wrong direction costing us over $20,000 in non HOA responsible repairs in 1 year. It was their lack of knowledge that lead us to our attorney.

We've had 9 PM's and we are educating them to how things work. Our current PM is also lacking.



Board members are volunteers. Many have no idea what they're doing. Educate them. Don't beat them up.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1594


11/10/2021 11:31 AM  
Posted By PatJ1 on 11/10/2021 11:22 AM
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/10/2021 10:51 AM
This is something your property manager should have.




Our PM years ago had no idea and lead us in the wrong direction costing us over $20,000 in non HOA responsible repairs in 1 year. It was their lack of knowledge that lead us to our attorney.

We've had 9 PM's and we are educating them to how things work. Our current PM is also lacking.





If an association I manage doesn't have one, I create one using a template I developed. This is one of the first things we do after taking on a new property.

Can't leave home without one.
JanineR
(Tennessee)

Posts:219


11/10/2021 12:06 PM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/10/2021 10:51 AM
This is something your property manager should have.





She does not, unfortunately. So we are starting from scratch.

And when asked if this is owner or association cost, the answer doesn't always match with the master deed.

Right now I think that the Association is both paying for things they shouldn't pay in some cases,
but also making owners pay for things, that is not the owners' responsibility and should be covered by the assessments that are budgeted for.

Ultimately a lawyer will have to check box which is COA responsibility and which is owner responsibility, but the first step is to create a list of possible issues that can happen, as best as we can, to start the process going, and then the lawyer to put them into the correct bucket of responsibility so it is clear.

A good example is a water leak that is being generated from an owner's unit, that the unit owner could not possibly be aware of standing within the walls of their unit.

We need to create a list of "what ifs" as best as we can. Hearing others condo board experiences helps this process.





------------------------
Master Deed Example below:
------------------------
"the following are common elements :

All pipes, ducts, electrical wiring' and conduits (except pipes, ducts, electrical wiring and conduits situated entirely within one Unit. and serving only such Unit);"


------------------------
Tennessee Condominium Act § 66-27-302
------------------------
Unit boundaries.
Except as provided by the declaration:
o (1) If walls, floors or ceilings are designated as boundaries of a unit, all lath, furring, wallboard, plasterboard, plaster, paneling, tiles, wallpaper, paint, finished flooring, and any other materials constituting any part of the finished surfaces of the walls, floor or ceilings are a part of the unit, and all other portions of the walls, floors, or ceilings are a part of the common elements;
o (2) If any chute, flue, duct, wire, conduit, bearing wall, bearing column, or any other fixture lies partially within and partially outside the designated boundaries of a unit, any portion of the chute, flue, duct, wire, conduit, bearing wall, bearing column, or other fixture serving only that unit is a limited common element allocated solely to that unit, and any portion of the chute, flue, duct, wire, conduit, bearing wall, bearing column, or other fixture serving more than one (1) unit or any portion of the common elements is a part of the common elements;
o (3) Subject to subdivision (2), all spaces, interior partitions, and other fixtures and improvements within the boundaries of a unit are a part of the unit; and
o (4) Any shutters, awnings, window boxes, doorsteps, stoops, porches, balconies, patios, and all exterior doors and windows or other fixtures designed to serve a single unit, but located outside the unit's boundaries, are limited common elements allocated exclusively to that unit.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1594


11/10/2021 12:37 PM  
I have such a list. Send me your governing docs and I will create a customize list specifically for your condo and charge you $1500-$2000 for it. That's what a lawyer will charge you, for the 3-4 hours to read your documents.

Sometimes, your insurance company can provide this as they are the ones covering or not covering issues that are found in your governing docs. I have done many of these and they are not that difficult to do.
JanineR
(Tennessee)

Posts:219


11/10/2021 1:32 PM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/10/2021 12:37 PM


Sometimes, your insurance company can provide this as they are the ones covering or not covering issues that are found in your governing docs.





That is an interesting point.
Adding in a third column of what insurance policy does it fall under.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1594


11/10/2021 1:49 PM  
No, the insurance company might be able to tell you who is responsible, HOA or Owner. Nothing to do about insurance coverage. The insurance company, at least the ones I have dealt with, will require a copy of the governing docs in order to write a policy. They are writing a policy based on what your docs require the association to pay for.

I am dealing with a exact same issue with a pin hole leak in pipe within a unit. It is owner responsibility to fix and they wanted the HOA insurance to cover. The deductible is $10K, so we will cover anything over $10K, if it was the HOA to fix.
JanineR
(Tennessee)

Posts:219


11/10/2021 1:56 PM  
Adding a new column nonetheless if it is covered by COA insurance or owner's insurance if there is a claim.

The insurance policy doesn't mean it is one hundred percent inline with our governing documents. But it is a good column to add.

For example, the insurance company for our association just paid out for hvacs for 50+- units,
even though on a responsibility schedule, if someone's hvac stops working in normal circumstance it is the owners responsibility to repair it, not the associations
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:4284


11/10/2021 4:02 PM  
If your property manager doesn't have one, you should be able to create one by reading your documents. Think of it as a table with three, maybe four columns. One says Association responsibility, another owner responsibility, a third might say both (if you have limited common areas). Our community recently published one, which looks a little like this:

Item Owner Responsibility Association Responsibility
Sewer and plumbing lines From the point the lines enter the unit From the point the lines leave the unit

You can also Google the topic and see what comes up. Excel may have some maintenance templates you can adapt - the ones I've seen are seasonal, e.g. inspect the furnace in the fall or drain an electric water heater every six months, but it can still work. In fact the seasonal ones may be really helpful for the HOA board to remember what should be done when, such as rake or mulch fallen leaves on or after October 31 or when all the trees have shed their leaves


JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11659


11/11/2021 11:00 AM  
I would put a disclaimer on any Matrix that the HOA is not responsible for any mistakes nor errors. You do not want to be assigning responsibility to the wrong party.
JanineR
(Tennessee)

Posts:219


11/12/2021 7:11 PM  
This is all good advice.
I think I'll make a start at what items to include, using the friendly tool of google.
Then include other directors to add what ever other scenarios we can possibly think of, we won't be ale to think of them all, but can give it a shot.

Then put it to the responsibility of the HOA attorney to check mark which bucket is falls into.
I can make an educated guess, based on our documents, but won't.

For example, our PM says that exterior doors are owner responsibility, but I question that. But instead of going down that road, I would rather just the attorney check mark the boxes first, and then we question them after if need be.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8720


11/12/2021 11:37 PM  
Our Board just approved a maintenance Matrix for our multi-story condos. It will be an Exhibit at the back of our restated CC&Rs that we hope to get approved by Owners early next year.

We already had everything spelled out in our current (original 20 y.o.) CC&Rs. We also has a matrix crafted by an insurance agent based on his reading of our CC&Rs. But the New Matrix will be much easier to read than our CC&Rs sections.

Our HOA attorney created it based on one his firm had done for a similar high rise with almost identical CC&Rs built by our developer. I'm unable to copy it. It's part of the oral very reasonable fee we're paying for the rewrite of our CC&Rs & Bylaws.

The left column is "Improvement" to its right are several columns "Clean"; "Maintain"; "Repair"; "Replace"; "Paint;" Resurface;" "Repave."

An A for Association or an O for Owner is in each column box.

Under the Improvement, "Exterior of doors on the exterior boundaries of the Residential Unit. There is an A for every column that applies, i.e, clean, maintain, repair, replace, paint. This is based solely on the verbiage in our CC&Rs.

The interior of those same doors are marked O for every category also based solely on our CC&Rs.

We have 15 items on the list.

Right, Janine, your HOA attorney must confirm your selections. Probably the trickiest ones are limited use common areas, if you have them.



JamesG
(Connecticut)

Posts:81


11/13/2021 11:57 AM  
Janine, I have read all of the responses to your post, but I did not see any examples of a repair matrix. So I am forwarding the one that we developed. This was prepared by the Board after reviewing our legal documents. We did not use an attorney. This matrix applies only to non-insured maintenance and repairs.

Our biggest problem in using the matrix is getting the property manager to follow it!

We are a condominium with multiple buildings of attached units.

Hope that this helps......Jim

Attachment: 11113572280971.pdf

CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:2588


11/13/2021 1:22 PM  
Be careful with insurance - it will depend on the type you carry. We have all-included insurance, which covers repairs to portions of the units *if there was an insurable event* such as a fire. For routine maintenance, those same portions are the owner's responsibility.
JanineR
(Tennessee)

Posts:219


11/18/2021 7:25 PM  
Posted By JamesG on 11/13/2021 11:57 AM
Janine, I have read all of the responses to your post, but I did not see any examples of a repair matrix. So I am forwarding the one that we developed. This was prepared by the Board after reviewing our legal documents. We did not use an attorney. This matrix applies only to non-insured maintenance and repairs.

Our biggest problem in using the matrix is getting the property manager to follow it!

We are a condominium with multiple buildings of attached units.

Hope that this helps......Jim




It does, thank you.

I used examples from google searches, but there were also items on your list that weren't on others.

I appreciate that you shared yours, because it helped.
JanineR
(Tennessee)

Posts:219


11/18/2021 8:09 PM  
Very good advice.
I found a couple of good disclaimers online on other condo maintenance matrix examples that provide wording.

Ultimately though we will put it in the hands of an attorney once we create the list of scenarios, so our hands are clean.

JanineR
(Tennessee)

Posts:219


11/18/2021 8:10 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 11/11/2021 11:00 AM
I would put a disclaimer on any Matrix that the HOA is not responsible for any mistakes nor errors. You do not want to be assigning responsibility to the wrong party.




to the above.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1594


11/18/2021 9:39 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 11/11/2021 11:00 AM
I would put a disclaimer on any Matrix that the HOA is not responsible for any mistakes nor errors. You do not want to be assigning responsibility to the wrong party.



So who is the right party and who determine that?
JanineR
(Tennessee)

Posts:219


11/19/2021 8:31 AM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/18/2021 9:39 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 11/11/2021 11:00 AM
I would put a disclaimer on any Matrix that the HOA is not responsible for any mistakes nor errors. You do not want to be assigning responsibility to the wrong party.



So who is the right party and who determine that?





The attorney is the right party to determine that.

Although the sample disclaimers that I've seen are long, ultimately

"These statements and the attached matrix serve only as guidelines, and if any items are in conflict with the recorded Master Deed and By-laws, then the recorded documents will prevail."
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Condo Maintenance Matrix



Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.







General Legal Notice:  The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com.  Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship.  Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.  HOATalk is not a licensed attorney, CPA, tax advisor, financial advisor or any other licensed professional.  HOATalk accepts ads from sponsors but does not verify sponsor qualifications nor endorse/guarantee any sponsor's product or service.
Legal Notice For Messages Posted by Sponsoring Attorneys: This message has been prepared by the sponsoring attorney for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send any sponsoring attorney confidential information unless you speak with the sponsoring attorney or an attorney from the sponsoring attorney’s firm and get authorization to send that information to them. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in the firm of the sponsoring attorney. Sponsoring attorneys that post messages here are licensed to practice law in a specific state or states as indicated in their message signature or sponsor’s profile page. (NOTE: A ‘sponsoring attorney’ is an attorney that is a HOATalk.com official sponsor and is identified as such in the posted message or on our sponsor page.)

Copyright HOA Talk.com, A Service of Community123 LLC ( Homeowners Association Discussions )   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement