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Wednesday, October 27, 2021











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Subject: My fence update
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Author Messages
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10534


10/11/2021 4:18 PM  
Thought would give you an update to my nightmare fence situation... Recap - Moved in and ordered a shadow box stained fence. Contractor was 10 weeks out. Filled out HOA forms for fence approval. Was given approval. Fences are to go 3 feet from the property line. I requested mine 6 feet due to a deep swell that fills up in my back yard. (Did not want my dogs to play in it). Neighbor moved in and put up a fence next day. Did not tell me anything just put one in. NOT Shadow boxed as thought they had to be.

Contacted the PM to ask did they have permission and if so do I now need to change my fence? The response was "none of my business if neighbor was approved. Plus it did not matter if my fence matched. Oh and by the way you have to change YOUR fence now to meet the 3 foot requirement.". Yes, I was extremely peeved. I can't put my shadow box up next to other fence. That would be kind of stupid. Plus has to be stained. Can't get to the other side now can we?

So called fence contractor out again and modified plan. No longer going to be shadow boxed to match neighbor. Plus extended it to over the swell. Well as you guessed it. The neighbor next door goes "Hey you putting up a fences?" 3 weeks later. I said yes waiting on contractor. Next day you guessed it... They put up a fence! Seriously no clue they are even in a HOA...

Now the good news is I only have to do front/back sides. So I decided going to go back to the shadow box. I like the sunsets and don't want to block the view as much. Had to resubmit the plans AGAIN to the PM/HOA Developer for approval.

Here is where the PM is just on my last nerves now. Gave me a form to fill out for "attaching" to my neighbor's fences. That I now have to have them sign off giving me permission to do so. Uhm... What fences? See they were never approved by the HOA to install the fences. (FACT known). So why now after having permission to install a complete fence I now have to ask my neighbors to attach? That is BS.

Plus the PM tells me that I have to modify the plan again to show that not putting up the other side now. I responded just mark it off the sheet and note it for crying out loud. Plus No I am NOT "attaching" my fence as guess what? They do NOT exist paperwork wise. So why am I asking permission from neighbors whom did not ask to put up a fence in the first place? I am also extending my front of my fence so not really "attaching" to theirs.

So what do you think? Should I be requesting an "attachment" to my neighbors fences or for just front/back? I see no reason to ask for attaching if they never asked to have one installed. Plus if they are forced to take theirs down they need to ask me to attach...

Former HOA President
MaxB4


Posts:1394


10/11/2021 4:29 PM  
How would you have handled this while you were president?
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17785


10/11/2021 4:51 PM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 10/11/2021 4:29 PM
How would you have handled this while you were president?




Good question.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10534


10/11/2021 5:00 PM  
That is the frustrating part. Hence why extra peeved off. If I was President, at the first sign someone was building a fence I would have stopped them. Told them the rules and how to apply for permission. Not saying would deny them building a fence. Just have them fill out the paperwork and make sure it was in compliance. The point is that I would have a paper trail of approval. Plus if someone asked to attach to their fence I could pull up their information for the neighbors to agree upon.

Hence why this PM find extremely useless and clueless. #1 was given permission to build my WHOLE fence. On record. So when my neighbor put his fence up, then that should have set up red flags for the PM to come out to investigate. Should it not? My contacting them to say "hey do I need to fill out the attachment form instead now?" should have responded with "What fence?" or "Yes we gave them permission before/after you".

Instead I was told it was NONE of my business if they had HOA approval or not. Plus I was NOT the one to give permission to the owner if they wanted to build a fence or not. AGAIN reminding them that I was NOT asking to give permission to the owner to build a fence. Reminding them that was the HOA's job... Plus I think I had a right to know if my neighbors are approved for a fence so know if I am attaching or building from scratch.

So if I was President, there would be a paper trail confirmed. Plus submitted for approval by the rest of the board or ACC. Then the person could build their fence all day long and twice on Sunday. As long as it was approved, conformed, and both neighbors agreed.

Former HOA President
MaxB4


Posts:1394


10/11/2021 5:13 PM  
And you're still under developer control?
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10534


10/11/2021 5:21 PM  
Yes. Phase 2. Phase 3 just starting. Most likely last phase if not a 4th. It's confusing as my builder doesn't own the HOA. It's the other builder that does. They hired this PM. Know of another HOA that used them and fired them. They seemed to have the same issues with the person over the HOA account. Funny thing is I signed up for the HOA's unofficial owner's page, the 1st thing it states? "X is not affiliated with this site nor has access to it". Why would that be posted if others did not have similar issues with this PM?

I did end up going to the owner of the PM company over this. Who was pretty reasonable. So it was to be a full go-ahead for my fence. Even offering to work with my contractor. Now this PM representative is playing these games... Keeps telling me to apply over and over again... Knowing full well if the developer found out fences are going up without HOA approval or knowledge it should be fully on the PM.

Former HOA President
LoriM15
(Florida)

Posts:36


10/11/2021 6:14 PM  
When my community was built 20 years ago, the developer negotiated fences with some homeowners as part of the purchase of their new home. Most of these fences never had HOA approval and many of them were built in easements. That was against the rules even before turnover.

Don't be so sure the developer doesn't know about the fence issue.
BobD4
(up north)

Posts:944


10/11/2021 6:53 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/11/2021 4:18 PM


Neighbor moved in and put up a fence next day.. . . Now the good news is I only have to do front/back sides. Plus No I am NOT "attaching" my fence as guess what ? I am also extending my front of my fence so not really "attaching" to theirs. . . . Should I be requesting an "attachment" to my neighbors fences or for just front/back ? . . . .Plus if they are forced to take theirs down they need to ask me to attach...




For the sidelines, looks like your own fence preferences have been dealt totally out of this cardgame. ( Other backyards getting similar scenarios ? )

Given the timeline to start confining & protecting your own dogs, I think you are absolutely correct with approval to erect your own choice at front & rear. And that's : without any physical attachment whatsoever to the sideline laterals.

IF the covenants allow you to do a "private fence" totally on your own private property - as opposed to a genuine boundary line fence / mutual consent scenario - perhaps you could offset from the sidelines by inches. And then plant something sufficient to fill the gaps . . . .
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10534


10/11/2021 7:28 PM  
Fences are NOT part of the build process. It isn't an option. There are other options but fencing isn't one of them. Plus we were sent a document when our dues were due detailing the process. Not sure when they got their dues payment notices. I told the one neighbor about HOA's and he claims never got the documents. I know got a copy at closing. Builder provides them. Plus on the Property Management's website. My neighbors never went through the HOA for permission to install their fences. There was no way.

Here is the confusing part. Somewhere I read that fences had to be shadow boxed and stained "tobacco" color. That is why when I applied for my fence this is what I ordered. Now can't find it where I read it. It's not in the CC&R's. However, think it's in another document of the builders handed out. Which I pointed out to the PM this was a requirement. So far as I can tell they don't seem to be following that guidance.

Almost ready to take this to the builder directly. I don't even believe that PM representative is even submitting approval to them. If so, then they aren't caring a bit about them.

Former HOA President
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:2475


10/12/2021 6:18 AM  
It would be worth it to ask the builder for help. Usually they want to have satisfied customers who will tell friends and family about their good experiences (especially if the builder is still working in the community).

If what you looked at was part of the marketing materials, the builder ought to be able to get another copy for you. Also look to see if he has a website - the builder I work for has a Customer Care department that helps people with post-closing questions.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10534


10/12/2021 7:54 AM  
Thanks Cathy. Have an appointmenment for a repair in my house coming up. Will ask that person. Have a 1 year warranty for things. I do believe you are right where I got that information about fence requirements. It was in their documents. Otherwise how would I know needed to be stained a certain color? The PM does not seem to know this. Which suspect is why fences are being approved wrong.

Former HOA President
MaxB4


Posts:1394


10/12/2021 8:17 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/12/2021 7:54 AM
Thanks Cathy. Have an appointmenment for a repair in my house coming up. Will ask that person. Have a 1 year warranty for things. I do believe you are right where I got that information about fence requirements. It was in their documents. Otherwise how would I know needed to be stained a certain color? The PM does not seem to know this. Which suspect is why fences are being approved wrong.



A one year year warranty? I have always had ten year warranties.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10534


10/12/2021 9:23 AM  
1 year builder warranty. Other components may be longer. This is for builder defects. Appliances and other things longer.

New builds now a days is get what you get. Have to select builder carefully.

Former HOA President
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10534


10/12/2021 4:28 PM  
Update again. Went another round again. They want me to get permissions to connect to my neighbors fences. Again I refuse to do that. Instead told them I am just installing front and back only. It's not even going to line up with their fences. It's going to be a different style. Plus go further up. Also mentioned that the backs of the two neighbors fences are off 3 feet. 1 on back property line. The other the required 3 foot set back. (Again their fences never applied for to be installed).

So here is my line of thinking. IF I had my fence approved on paper, then would my neighbors be required to fill out a form to connect to my fence whether or not it was built? The PM tells me because my fence was not "built" yet the neighbors did not need to submit a form requesting to connect to my fence. Instead I am now required to connect to their fence.

Now my brain thinks that if you get approval to build something whether or not it is physically built, the other owners still have to respect that. It's like I've applied for "imaginary lines" of which the neighbors needed to respect. Meaning they should have waited till my fence went up or made other arrangements of compromise.

Overall I think the PM didn't do their job correctly. Plus Do I not have the right to know if my neighbors applied for a fence? I am not even sure they are even giving these forms to the Developer at this point. Otherwise, would they not have caught this?

Former HOA President
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10534


10/12/2021 9:09 PM  
Moving this post up to the current. Just in case this is the one making Mr. Rolland Mad...

Former HOA President
MaxB4


Posts:1394


10/12/2021 9:22 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/12/2021 9:09 PM
Moving this post up to the current. Just in case this is the one making Mr. Rolland Mad...



It is not him, someone imitating him.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10534


10/12/2021 9:31 PM  
Either way it's a RollandE1 that is showing as the response. The website Admins can work it out. Seen it happen before. Someone's account was banned for a reason. If it's a fake account then it will be worked out. Until then will just have to keep an eye on the newer posts and move them up.

Former HOA President
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