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Subject: Common roof, fire sprinkler repair
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GunelH
(New York)

Posts:7


09/10/2021 9:34 AM  
Hi dear community,
I need your thoughts and advice in my current situation.
Last August 2020 I bought a small 1 bedroom apartment. HOA fees increase every year. The building is not maintained well. All HOA do is cutting couple trees a year. So this month they emailed everyone that they will be having a meeting this month and vote for the loan in the amount of $1,641,290 to be paid by residents during 60 months.
This loan will cover:
1.Fire system pipe and sprinkler head replacements - $412,700,
2.Mitten will be handling the drywall and paint inside the units, carport areas and stairwells and the estimated cost is $4,000/unit x 154= $616,000
3.The roof work estimate (which will need to be updated due to rising cost of shingles) is $258,612.00.

its a lot of money, My monthly HOA fees are $260 for a small 1 bedroom apartment. there are 2-3 bedroom apartments which pay more. I dont understand why some of these expenses are not covered with the money we pay.

I just moved there and this is a complete shock for me and unnecessary extra expense during these unstable times.

Is there any advice I can get from here how to push back and make HOA to cover at least partial costs?

Thank you very much
AugustinD


Posts:1585


09/10/2021 9:46 AM  
Posted By GunelH on 09/10/2021 9:34 AM

Last August 2020 I bought a small 1 bedroom apartment. HOA fees increase every year. The building is not maintained well. All HOA do is cutting couple trees a year. So this month they emailed everyone that they will be having a meeting this month and vote for the loan in the amount of $1,641,290 to be paid by residents during 60 months.
...
its a lot of money, My monthly HOA fees are $260 for a small 1 bedroom apartment. there are 2-3 bedroom apartments which pay more. I dont understand why some of these expenses are not covered with the money we pay.
...
Is there any advice I can get from here how to push back and make HOA to cover at least partial costs?
GunelH, you say you would like the "HOA to cover at least partial costs." Do you understand what the HOA is? Your HOA is a nonprofit corporation. The HOA corporation's income is solely what the owners of the units pay each month or by special assessment. When you say you want the HOA to cover costs, in reality this is the same as wanting the owners (you and others) to cover costs.

The reason you and the other owners are being hit with much higher assessments (or possibly a special assessment) to pay the loan is because prior boards did not properly fund what is known as "reserves." Reserves are money that owners have paid over the years, via their monthly assessment, that is not spent on the normal, yearly operating expenses. Instead, the reserves are used to pay for infrastructure that normally lasts much longer than a year, like roofs and sprinklers.

I suspect the HOA is doing a lot more than just tree cutting. Also unfortunately owners in a condo or HOA have to pay for the costs of administration by a manager. These employee/contractor costs are often what one-fourth or so of your monthly assessment pays for. Is the HOA billed by the city for water bills, and part of your assessment therefore is paying for water? What about trash pickup?

To begin to understand your HOA expenses and budgeting, I think you need to request a review of the last several years of annual budgets and also documentation of reserve funding.
GunelH
(New York)

Posts:7


09/10/2021 9:54 AM  
Thank you for your response.
they sent me budgeting for 2019 when i just moved in and there the reserve budget was more than $100 000. before i moved in there were couple exterior repairs needed outside of my apartment. the request was submitted. but till today nothing was done. the pool was not clean during summer. I can assure you that Building maintenance is very low. sometimes i think all they do is to stalk airbnb in case someone lists their unit there and cut couple trees a year.

I just think that I was supposed to be informed of these big costs coming prior moving into that building.

what can be done to cut these outrageous costs?
AugustinD


Posts:1585


09/10/2021 10:10 AM  
-- If a HOA/COA owner is dissatisfied with budgeting and maintenance, then the quickest way to remedy this is to get together a group of people who feel as you do; find candidates among these folks for any board seats that are open at the next annual election; and then gather proxies or get out the vote so that you and people who feel as you do win election to these seats. Sometimes it takes a couple of years to cause real change in the make-up of the board.

-- You want to read the Bylaws carefully to cause the above change.

-- I would have to see the last several years of budgets to judge whether the costs of which you speak are outrageous. To me, what you are saying sounds more like the typical new condo owner who does not understand how COAs are financed; reserve funding; what expenses are; and so on.

-- Reserves of a mere $100,000 when roofs are nearing the end of life are inadequate. It sounds like prior boards planned poorly.

-- It is likely that the finances of the HOA were disclosed to you or available to you prior to purchase. However, most owners do not understand how to read these documents. This is on the buyer, not the HOA or the seller.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11417


09/10/2021 10:18 AM  
Gunel

As said earlier, the problem is the monthly dues were not high enough to create a Reserve large enough to cover the needed repairs. It is the old pay me now or pay me later. In one HOA I was in, we had a $35K per unit (4 per building townhomes) assessment payable over 5 years so $7K per year so about $600 per month.
GunelH
(New York)

Posts:7


09/10/2021 10:24 AM  
there are 154 units, mine is a small 1 bedroom with $260 monthly payment. others pay more than I do. I just think that the budget was managed poorly. this burden could be avoided.
MaxB4


Posts:1210


09/10/2021 10:24 AM  
An annual budget won't tell you the financial condition of the complex. It will only tell you how much revenue is being collected for that year only and how much is being expended on basic maintenance for the complex for the same year. It may or may not show dollars transferred into a reserve account.

In order to truly understand the financial condition of a HOA, you will need to look at the current annual budget, a current balance sheet, a current income/expense statement and a reserve summary. In addition, you'll need the end of fiscal year balance sheet as well as end of fiscal year income/expense statement.

A balance sheet will show how much money is in the operating accounts, separate reserve account(s), how much in delinquencies the HOA is carrying, how much is actually allocated to reserves, profit and loss for the year and profit and/or loss over the history of the HOA. Your management cost is going to be between $10-$15 per door, so it will only amount to less than 6% in your case.

I know New York is not n open meeting state, so it might be possible you are not being properly communicated to in regard to the financial health of your community. Almost $1.7M is a big carrot to swallow. The problem is how much financial information is required to be given to buyers in your state prior to you signing on the dotted is going to change state to state.

Me, while the market is hot, I would be unloading that turkey in a hurry.
MaxB4


Posts:1210


09/10/2021 10:48 AM  
Attached is a sample Reserve Summary showing the financial health of a reserve account.

Attachment: 1910481825571.pdf

DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:1670


09/10/2021 11:15 AM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 09/10/2021 10:24 AM
An annual budget won't tell you the financial condition of the complex. It will only tell you how much revenue is being collected for that year only and how much is being expended on basic maintenance for the complex for the same year. It may or may not show dollars transferred into a reserve account.

In order to truly understand the financial condition of a HOA, you will need to look at the current annual budget, a current balance sheet, a current income/expense statement and a reserve summary. In addition, you'll need the end of fiscal year balance sheet as well as end of fiscal year income/expense statement.

A balance sheet will show how much money is in the operating accounts, separate reserve account(s), how much in delinquencies the HOA is carrying, how much is actually allocated to reserves, profit and loss for the year and profit and/or loss over the history of the HOA. Your management cost is going to be between $10-$15 per door, so it will only amount to less than 6% in your case.

I know New York is not n open meeting state, so it might be possible you are not being properly communicated to in regard to the financial health of your community. Almost $1.7M is a big carrot to swallow. The problem is how much financial information is required to be given to buyers in your state prior to you signing on the dotted is going to change state to state.

Me, while the market is hot, I would be unloading that turkey in a hurry.


Max, thanks for this list. While I fully agree that the info you listed is what is needed to get a real picture of the association's financial state, unfortunately, most people (especially first time buyers) do not have the knowledge or experience to really comprehend what those docs are telling them, and apparently don't realize that they should get the docs in front of someone who can. Ideally the OP's buyer's agent would have some level of ability to do that, or at least have a resource available. I would expect that many agents are too focused on getting the sale to do anything that might throw up red flags.

Like the OP, they often see the Association as some stingy far away entity with deep pockets when really the association just the homeowners collectively.

I don't have any answers to the situation, but we see it here all of the time, and based on recent events, things will probably get worse. Maybe require a mandatory HOA 101 course before buying, but that would never be popular and would face fierce opposition from Realtor groups.


Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
AugustinD


Posts:1585


09/10/2021 12:07 PM  
Posted By DouglasK1 on 09/10/2021 11:15 AM
Ideally the OP's buyer's agent would have some level of ability to do that, or at least have a resource available. I would expect that many agents are too focused on getting the sale to do anything that might throw up red flags.
I wonder whether a real estate agent who makes statements that are beyond what is in the required disclosure could also be out of line.

Some facts about the state of condos in the United States:

-- A form of common-interest ownership has been around for at least a century. But by 1970, there were only about 10,000 condominium and homeowners associations in the U.S., according to the CAI.

-- In the mid-1970s, after federal tax reform permitted condominium mortgages to be deductible, the number of units began to proliferate.

-- The number of condominium units in the U.S. increased by 115 percent between 1980 and 1990, according to the Census Bureau.

-- Today, there are about 160,000 condominium buildings in the U.S.

-- Nationwide as of today, more than half of all condominium buildings have stood for at least three decades.

--Robert Nordlund is the CEO of Association Reserves, which advises condominium and homeowners associations on setting aside money for repairs. Of Nordlund's 30,000 clients, he estimates that 30 percent of properties are significantly behind in their reserve funding, meaning they hold 30 percent or less than the total funding they need for planned and unexpected future projects. Another 40 percent properties are only in "fair" condition, holding just 30 to 70 percent of needed funding.

-- Hence about 70% of condos and HOAs have reserves whose funding is fair to far behind what is needed.


References
https://www.inquirer.com/news/nation-world/condo-owners-financial-challenge-building-repairs-surfside-florida-safety-20210711.html

https://www.kiplinger.com/real-estate/603356/could-surfside-happen-to-you-what-concerned-condo-owners-should-do-now

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/01/us/condo-associations-surfside-collapse.html


Signs are that insurers may be the driving force to change the business-as-usual approach of condo boards underfunding reserves (and by a lot). Unfortunately given the age of many condos, this is still going to yield enormous, large special assessments or increases in the regular assessment.
DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:1670


09/10/2021 12:10 PM  
Posted By GunelH on 09/10/2021 10:24 AM
Is there any advice I can get from here how to push back and make HOA to cover at least partial costs?


As already mentioned, the "HOA" is just the owners of all of the units collectively. Typically all or almost all income comes from the owners. In a typical association most or all monthly assessments are spent either on operating costs during the year or contributions to reserves (which could be considered the association's "savings"). Reserve contributions should not be based on guessing, but on what the reserve study predicts will be required at various points in time. The situation you are in happens because your monthly dues are too low to provide sufficient reserve contributions, and probably have been for many years.

To understand where the money you are paying goes, as Augustine mentions you can review budgets as a starting point. This will show you how the board expected to spend the assessment income. The actual spending could vary a bit, but at least it should give you an idea what the larger spending items are. In my association at the end of the year we provided owners with budget vs. actual comparison so they could see how the money actually ended up being spent (including the amount of the reserve contribution).

Posted By GunelH on 09/10/2021 10:24 AM
there are 154 units, mine is a small 1 bedroom with $260 monthly payment. others pay more than I do. I just think that the budget was managed poorly. this burden could be avoided.


Spending (and saving) decisions are made by the board. If owners elect directors that promise to keep assessments as low as possible, this happens. It is not unusual for owners to push to "kick the can down the road" rather than pay the required assessments to provide for adequate reserve savings. For example, I've seen posts here referencing older owners who say things like "I'll be dead before this place needs a new roof, why should I pay for it?" Similar comments come from people who plan to sell before major repairs are expected.


Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
PatJ1
(North Carolina)

Posts:197


09/10/2021 12:15 PM  
2.Mitten will be handling the drywall and paint inside the units, carport areas and stairwells and the estimated cost is $4,000/unit x 154= $616,000

Why is the HOA dry walling and painting the inside of the units? These are usually owner responsibility.

Board members are volunteers. Many have no idea what they're doing. Educate them. Don't beat them up.
DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:1670


09/10/2021 12:37 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 09/10/2021 12:07 PM
Posted By DouglasK1 on 09/10/2021 11:15 AM
Ideally the OP's buyer's agent would have some level of ability to do that, or at least have a resource available. I would expect that many agents are too focused on getting the sale to do anything that might throw up red flags.
I wonder whether a real estate agent who makes statements that are beyond what is in the required disclosure could also be out of line.


I could see that possibly being true for the seller's agent. My understanding is that the buyer's agent is supposed to look after the best interest of the buyer. A couple of relevant quotes: " As a representative of a purchaser in a real estate transaction, a buyer’s agent has a legal obligation to protect the interests of the buyer and work to ensure they’re getting the best deal possible" and "They’ll then walk you through it, point out good features, and potential red flags such as maintenance issues."

I'm not sure if the OP is in NYC or elsewhere in NY, but if the former, there might have been some pressure to move quickly and not spend too much time delving into issues. I'm not as familiar with buying in NYC, but it has long been the case there where most rentals are snatched up in less than a day and if you're not prepared to sign and pay first month's rent, last month's rent, security deposit, and rental agent fee when you view the apartment you have little chance of landing one. I would not be surprised if the buying market is similar there.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
GunelH
(New York)

Posts:7


09/10/2021 12:55 PM  
Property is in Charlotte, NC. My agent rushed me that’s true and I wasn’t even I formed about any of these. I was a first time buyer and even asked my agent to let me know everything and give me advice. Now I’m facing this. I think agents just think about their commissions
AugustinD


Posts:1585


09/10/2021 12:58 PM  
Posted By DouglasK1 on 09/10/2021 12:37 PM

I could see that possibly being true for the seller's agent. My understanding is that the buyer's agent is supposed to look after the best interest of the buyer. A couple of relevant quotes: " As a representative of a purchaser in a real estate transaction, a buyer’s agent has a legal obligation to protect the interests of the buyer and work to ensure they’re getting the best deal possible" and "They’ll then walk you through it, point out good features, and potential red flags such as maintenance issues."
I hear you about protecting the interests of the buyer. I do not think it's a pipe dream to suggest that bona fide buyers' agents will start saying to buyers, who are looking at units in co-ops whose reserves are underfunded, "Look, I know you want this co-op. I know the price seems competitive with other co-ops. But here's the deal. I am paid, and I have a lawful fiduciary duty to look out for your interests. I have looked at the reserve funding. The reserve company last year said the reserves are 40% funded. This is appallingly low. I think it's clear that this co-op's ___ will need replacement in the next five years or so, and all owners will have to pay for it. If you buy this co-op unit, then I think it is likely you are looking at a significant special assessment in the next five years. I am not talking a few thousand dollars. I am talking more than $30,000, and possibly a lot more. If you google and read about older condos, you will see this is becoming common. The asking price does not reflect this. If you still want to buy this unit, I understand. But please go in with eyes wide open. Please consider offering a lot less than the asking price."


All I know about NYC housing these days is that prices took quite a dive as the pandemic raged through the city.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:2393


09/10/2021 1:47 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 09/10/2021 12:58 PM
Posted By DouglasK1 on 09/10/2021 12:37 PM

I could see that possibly being true for the seller's agent. My understanding is that the buyer's agent is supposed to look after the best interest of the buyer. A couple of relevant quotes: " As a representative of a purchaser in a real estate transaction, a buyer’s agent has a legal obligation to protect the interests of the buyer and work to ensure they’re getting the best deal possible" and "They’ll then walk you through it, point out good features, and potential red flags such as maintenance issues."
I hear you about protecting the interests of the buyer. I do not think it's a pipe dream to suggest that bona fide buyers' agents will start saying to buyers, who are looking at units in co-ops whose reserves are underfunded, "Look, I know you want this co-op. I know the price seems competitive with other co-ops. But here's the deal. I am paid, and I have a lawful fiduciary duty to look out for your interests. I have looked at the reserve funding. The reserve company last year said the reserves are 40% funded. This is appallingly low. I think it's clear that this co-op's ___ will need replacement in the next five years or so, and all owners will have to pay for it. If you buy this co-op unit, then I think it is likely you are looking at a significant special assessment in the next five years. I am not talking a few thousand dollars. I am talking more than $30,000, and possibly a lot more. If you google and read about older condos, you will see this is becoming common. The asking price does not reflect this. If you still want to buy this unit, I understand. But please go in with eyes wide open. Please consider offering a lot less than the asking price."


All I know about NYC housing these days is that prices took quite a dive as the pandemic raged through the city.



This discussion illustrates a point I made recently: the true cost of condo ownership and the risks associated with it are hidden, and I don't believe they are currently discoverable by outsiders. I'm not sure that I could do it, and I'm about as well informed as anybody about where the bodies can be hidden.

One thing to keep in mind is that realtors are sales people. I don't think they have a fiduciary duty to their customers at all - at least not in the sense that someone like a lawyer or financial advisor does. The kind of buyer's agent you're envisioning doesn't currently exist - although the Surfside collapse and other recent bad news may cause such a profession to come into being.

Of course adding this kind of person to the team will increase the cost of buying, so I take it as given that the folks who currently make money selling condos will be adamantly against it.

Another thing that can work against the kind of due diligence a buyer needs to do is a hot real estate market. In my area, if a likely property hits the MLS, you put in your offer asap, for over the asking price and waiving all contingencies - and even then you may be out of luck. It's nuts. It's also a recipe for getting taken to the cleaners financially.

My advice to any buyer is to stick to new or new-ish construction. Research possible communities well ahead of time, visit the properties to see what you can tell from the outside, check out sites like Zillow which can still have photos from old listings so that you can get some idea of what the interiors look like, read the CC&Rs (should be public info) to see if there are any deal breakers, and get ready to jump when a listing shows up in a community that's made it through the vetting process. And plan to move periodically. Don't fall in love with any condo - treat it as the business transaction that it is.







JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11417


09/10/2021 2:22 PM  
Cathy

While I have generally bought new, there still is the issue of a Reserve Study so Reserves are properly funded and this is where many associations get in trouble be they new or old. When our Declarant was getting ready to turn over our association to we owners, he freely warned the Advisory BOD (which was to be our BOD for the first year) that there was going to be a shortfall some 20 years down the road based on roof replacements and the first thing the BOD should look at is a dues increase. Well that BOD (myself included) got estimates and spreadsheet it out and arrived at the fact we would need a 20% dues increase. Well some of our owners went bat shit when we presented it and they put a coalition together to replace several BOD Members (including myself) who favored the dues increase.

It was a very tight elections. Decided by less then 10 votes but it worked. Two of us supporting the increase were not elected. Within 3 months two of the better BOD Members sold and were replaced by two against any dues increase. The BOD then ignored all warnings and kept the dues low. It took us two election cycles to get the anti-dues increase majority off the BOD and then we put in a 40% dues increase two years ago. From $50 to $70. We now have two Reserve Funds. One General and one Roofing with the 40% increase pledged to the Roofing Fund.

The present BOD (I am VP & Treasurer) have been discussing a small dues increase of 10% to 15% for 2022 as operating costs are rising and to strengthen the General Reserve Fund as we will have some fence replacing coming up which will nearly deplete the General Reserve Fund (presently at $100K).

It never stops..........LOL
GunelH
(New York)

Posts:7


09/10/2021 3:12 PM  
I was just going through the hoa documents I was provided by the sellers lawyer and noticed that special assessments and unaudited financial documents were left blank. Basically everything was hidden from me and my agent didn’t even bother letting me know.
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:1388


09/10/2021 3:47 PM  
Posted By GunelH on 09/10/2021 10:24 AM
there are 154 units, mine is a small 1 bedroom with $260 monthly payment. others pay more than I do. I just think that the budget was managed poorly. this burden could be avoided.





How healthy are your reserves? What percentage are you funded?
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:1388


09/10/2021 3:51 PM  
Posted By PatJ1 on 09/10/2021 12:15 PM
2.Mitten will be handling the drywall and paint inside the units, carport areas and stairwells and the estimated cost is $4,000/unit x 154= $616,000

Why is the HOA dry walling and painting the inside of the units? These are usually owner responsibility.




I guess because the OP mentioned that the Fire Sprinkler system is being updated or perhaps added. There you will need paint and drywall.
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:728


09/10/2021 3:54 PM  
Posted By GunelH on 09/10/2021 3:12 PM
I was just going through the hoa documents I was provided by the sellers lawyer and noticed that special assessments and unaudited financial documents were left blank. Basically everything was hidden from me and my agent didn’t even bother letting me know.




See what you said below. There was no assessment when you purchased the home. The only thing the seller could have possibly said is that there is a rumor of an upcoming assessment. I don't see an issue here. As a matter of fact you still don't know that there will be an assessment.

"Last August 2020 I bought a small 1 bedroom apartment. HOA fees increase every year. The building is not maintained well. All HOA do is cutting couple trees a year. So this month they emailed everyone that they will be having a meeting this month and vote for the loan in the amount of $1,641,290 to be paid by residents during 60 months."
GunelH
(New York)

Posts:7


09/10/2021 4:08 PM  
I wasn’t told about any assessment. In fact I went through the hoa meeting minutes for this year and nothing mentioned about roof change and fire system change or possible 1.6 million expense.
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:728


09/10/2021 4:23 PM  
Posted By GunelH on 09/10/2021 4:08 PM
I wasn’t told about any assessment. In fact I went through the hoa meeting minutes for this year and nothing mentioned about roof change and fire system change or possible 1.6 million expense.




That's because in August 2020 it didn't exist. It still doesn't until it's approved.
GunelH
(New York)

Posts:7


09/10/2021 5:05 PM  
But if you are hoa don’t you know that you will have huge expenses next year. 1.6 million didn’t come overnight. I looked at meeting minutes from June 2021, even then therr was nothing about it. And why there’s no bidding? This huge cost should be by bidding. Or am I wrong?
Why past owners just enjoyed low fees, sold and left and now we are left with this? Weren’t they supposed to have some kind of reserve for these?
MaxB4


Posts:1210


09/10/2021 7:59 PM  
Actually, these numbers didn't just pop up, they would have been identified in the reserve study. See if you can get a copy of the reserve study to see where the association stood financially the last five years.
AugustinD


Posts:1585


09/13/2021 1:54 PM  
Posted By CathyA3 on 09/10/2021 1:47 PM
This discussion illustrates a point I made recently: the true cost of condo ownership and the risks associated with it are hidden, and I don't believe they are currently discoverable by outsiders. I'm not sure that I could do it, and I'm about as well informed as anybody about where the bodies can be hidden.

[snip for brevity]

My advice to any buyer is to stick to new or new-ish construction. Research possible communities well ahead of time, visit the properties to see what you can tell from the outside, check out sites like Zillow which can still have photos from old listings so that you can get some idea of what the interiors look like, read the CC&Rs (should be public info) to see if there are any deal breakers, and get ready to jump when a listing shows up in a community that's made it through the vetting process. And plan to move periodically. Don't fall in love with any condo - treat it as the business transaction that it is.
The phraseology above about the 'hidden costs' of condo ownership got my attention a few days ago. So too did CathyA3's interesting counsel to move periodically. My goodness. CathyA3's remarks are so interesting that I think she should start a web site on condominium ownership. Maybe call it, "The Condominium Unit Buyer After Surfside." It could be a running series of anecdotes about these hidden costs. Just saying.

I used to think that one advantage of owning a condominium is that the costs of home maintenance resulted in a meaningful economy of scale. For example, when new roofs are needed, not just one roof would be replaced, but many would be replaced, and all around the same time. A contractor would surely discount his/her services. I found: Not really. Furthermore about one-third of my last condo's budget served to pay the employees (not contractors) and the employees' health insurance. This was not marketplace (Obamacare) insurance. It was higher end insurance. There was no incentive for the employees to stop smoking like chimneys. Employees' health insurance all by itself was around 5% of the budget.

CathyA3 has described other hidden costs elsewhere. Like the perils of jointly owning housing, one's likely biggest investment, with typically 50+ other owners. It is these owners from whom the board is made. These owners typically have little expertise in infrastructure, covenant law, financial math, insurance, employee costs, and more. Toss in: What single family home owner actually puts away money for a roof on a regular basis? Now the condo owner is expected to chip in every month to save for a roof, a roof that may be some years down the road. The naive condo owner, when hearing that there is $800,000 in the condo's savings account responds, "Huh? What for? I want my assessment reduced!" Also any condo is a gamble on whether or not there will be constant fighting and an un-neighborly community, including significant litigation. I hope I never again land in a condo.






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