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Subject: Presidents' Attributes
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MichaelS56
(Minnesota)

Posts:300


08/27/2021 10:36 AM  
The President plays a very important role in how a Board operates and is viewed by the owners. What attributes make for good leadership as President?
AugustinD


Posts:1920


08/27/2021 10:42 AM  
Posted By MichaelS56 on 08/27/2021 10:36 AM
The President plays a very important role in how a Board operates and is viewed by the owners. What attributes make for good leadership as President?
-- Recognizing that her/his principal duty is to preside over meetings of the board. No bullying allowed. Tone is everything when presiding. Remember it's not the words one uses that is compelling to listeners. What registers with listeners mostly is the tone, including body language.

-- Requiring that any director or owner making an assertion cite the covenant, bylaw or rule and regulation that supports the assertion. I think the phrase that should come out of the President's mouth the most often is: "Show me where in the Declaration (or Bylaws, Rules or statute) it says that."
BarbaraT1
(Texas)

Posts:589


08/27/2021 11:10 AM  
Posted By MichaelS56 on 08/27/2021 10:36 AM
The President plays a very important role in how a Board operates and is viewed by the owners. What attributes make for good leadership as President?




Same as they are for any board member. Be decisive, be fair, be open to new ideas. Be willing to make hard decisions and stand by them. Know when discussion has become fruitless and to move things along. Patience, assumption of best intentions. Willingness to put aside ones own best interests and do what is in the best interests of the association.
HenryS6
(Arizona)

Posts:111


08/27/2021 11:34 AM  
I'm the President of my HOA. It's a really tough position in my opinion.

On one hand, people expect me to be fair, neutral, and considerate of all opinions that are presented before the board. Indeed, according to Roberts Rules of Order, the President does not vote except in a tie.

On the other hand, per most bylaws, the President is a voting member of the board of directors. It is normal for a voting member to campaign for a certain idea, or present proposals to the board. I don't forfeit my right to opinions just because I'm the president.

It's a very difficult position to be in.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:2599


08/27/2021 12:26 PM  
* Knowledge of the CC&Rs, bylaws, and relevant state/federal law

* Understanding the nature of your job

* Effective management skills, including a thick skin and the ability to control one's emotions

* Effective communication skills

* Pragmatism: understanding and operating within necessary limits whether you like them or not, and keeping your eye on the big picture

* Being able to take the long view while dealing with constraints that encourage short-term thinking (a big problem with HOAs and COAs, which tend to be underfunded)

As noted, it's a tough job.
BenA2
(Texas)

Posts:1108


08/27/2021 12:58 PM  
I think one of the most important attributes is being a good facilitator. The president's job is to run meetings not run the association (unless your governing documents state otherwise). As such, their job is to make sure the board operates smoothly rather than be decisive or controlling. Also, humility, enough to except that you are not the boss but just another director when it comes to decision making.
HenryS6
(Arizona)

Posts:111


08/27/2021 1:08 PM  
Posted By BenA2 on 08/27/2021 12:58 PM
I think one of the most important attributes is being a good facilitator. The president's job is to run meetings not run the association (unless your governing documents state otherwise). As such, their job is to make sure the board operates smoothly rather than be decisive or controlling. Also, humility, enough to except that you are not the boss but just another director when it comes to decision making.




I'm torn on this.

The bylaws state that my role as an officer who holds the title of President is to preside over the meetings. I am, per the bylaws, not the CEO of the HOA. I'm just a director who presides over meetings.

However, everyone I run into thinks that I am the CEO. This includes homeowners, other board members, and the property manager. Thus, everything comes to my area, and then I disburse things out from there. This is akin to the CEO role of a small company. Or maybe the operations manager of a small company.

I can't really explain to all of these people that I'm not the CEO and just a director who presides over meetings, so I end up taking this role on.

Thus, today I received 19 e-mails regarding HOA stuff. That's probably double to triple what any other director receives.

So no, I'm not "the boss". I'm just another director. Except everyone else thinks I'm "the boss".

It's a tough position.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


08/27/2021 1:11 PM  
I pulled the section relating to my old Bylaws and then did a search for "duties of a president in a corporation. So, they just preside over meeting?

Section 7.6 President. The President shall be the chief executive officer of the Association, and subject to the control of the Board, shall have general supervision, direction and control of the business and officers of the Association. He shall preside at all meetings of the Members and at all meetings of the Board. He shall be ex officio a Member of all standing committees, including the Executive Committee, if any, and shall have the general powers and duties of management usually vested in the office of president of a corporation, and shall have such other powers and duties as may be prescribed by the Board or by the Bylaws. The president shall sign all leases, mortgages, deeds and other written instruments and shall co-sign all checks and promissory notes of the Association.

There are three tiers of power in a corporation:

the shareholders are the owners of the company;
the directors run the company and are responsible for the its overall management;
and the officers handle the day-to-day matters of the company as well as carry out the directors’ decisions and policies.
The appointing of officers is done by the Board of Directors of the company. The most notable officer titles are President, Vice President, Secretary and Treasurer. However, if required, the board can appoint other officers, such as a Chief Executive Officer (CEO), Chief Financial Officer (CFO), Chief Technology Officer (CTO), managers or any other title the board wishes to create.

Let’s first discuss what it takes to be the President of a company. The person who is President of a company is in the highest position within an organization and, in some cases, takes on the title of Chief Executive Officer as well. The President/CEO is often (but not always) the founder and owner of the business.

In addition, he or she:

creates, communicates and implements the organization’s vision, mission and overall direction.
hires, fires and manages all employees of the company.
leads, guides, directs and evaluates all other officers, managers and employees, and ensures they are carrying out the daily operations of the company.
meets regularly with other officers or managers of the company to make sure that the decisions the organization needs to make are prescient and strategic.
confirms that all officers and managers are conveying the company’s philosophies and guidelines to their own teams so that all employees understand the expectations of the company.
oversees all the financials aspects of the company and maintains awareness of both external and internal opportunities for expansion, customers, markets, new industry developments and standards.
KellyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:1806


08/27/2021 2:15 PM  
Henry,

In many ways you're a "CEO" but you're more akin to the leading voice for a group of leaders. As such, you have more responsibility than the other board members but you and your board colleagues are equally accountable for HOA operational outcomes. There's an understated difference there.

AugustinD


Posts:1920


08/27/2021 2:59 PM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 08/27/2021 1:11 PM
There are three tiers of power in a corporation:

the shareholders are the owners of the company;
the directors run the company and are responsible for the its overall management;
and the officers handle the day-to-day matters of the company as well as carry out the directors’ decisions and policies.
The appointing of officers is done by the Board of Directors of the company. The most notable officer titles are President, Vice President, Secretary and Treasurer. However, if required, the board can appoint other officers, such as a Chief Executive Officer (CEO), Chief Financial Officer (CFO), Chief Technology Officer (CTO), managers or any other title the board wishes to create.

[snip other stuff lifted verbatim from I believe a publication by Michael Bell, an adviser to those entities that wish to incorporate. See https://www.delawareinc.com/blog/what-is-the-role-of-a-president-of-a-corporation/]
This is generic stuff about corporations, both for profit, not for profit, and nonprofit, not just HOA corporations. For a HOA/COA corporation, and practically speaking, the article omits the first tier of power for day-to-day operations and more: The COA/HOA manager.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11665


08/27/2021 3:01 PM  
Not thinking being President makes them the one in charge.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


08/27/2021 3:07 PM  
The article didn't omit anything, as it was referring to Corporations in general, as the Bylaws pointed out.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


08/27/2021 3:11 PM  
As my example shows, the president, or any officer for that matter, has as much power given to them, or as much power, if not challenged by others on the Board.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10590


08/27/2021 4:01 PM  
For me it's taking "ownership" of the position. That means someone who isn't begrudgingly taking on the job. It's not a 9 - 5 type of job. You have to accept the fact the second you walk out your door or take a HOA call, you are the President. Understand your position and stay in your lane or atleast use turn signals when merging over...

It is a fine line. I found it best just to make it part of my lifestyle. Some people say it is a "thankless" job. My attitude was it was a "Thank FULL" job. Thankful I was elected and was trusted enough to be in that position. I think having an attitude of doing a "thankless" job translates through out.

Every HOA is different and any person in it. Just have to have someone who wants to do the job. Otherwise your getting people in office who don't want to be there or for their own agendas.

Former HOA President
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8729


08/27/2021 4:38 PM  
Our Bylaws give Boards the right to delegate many powers to a PM. Ours also have a couple of places in the president's duets that say something like "subject to the control of the Board."

The prez still signs (but doesn't approve) contracts, but s/he does not director the day-to-day activities of our HOA and may not direct staff per our contract with our MC.

Syndicated columnist, Kelly Richardson, an HOA attorney, has a fine article from his HOA Homefront column called something like "The President is Not El Jefe." The president serves at the pleasure of the Board. Board govern HOAs. Boards are the deciders.

We often see her board that pet their prez to abuse their power and dominate and dictate. This directors need to remember that they are still liable for nay error a bully-type president make.

More on th p[ostive attribute--at least form my view, tomorrow.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


08/27/2021 5:11 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/27/2021 4:38 PM
Our Bylaws give Boards the right to delegate many powers to a PM. Ours also have a couple of places in the president's duets that say something like "subject to the control of the Board."

The prez still signs (but doesn't approve) contracts, but s/he does not director the day-to-day activities of our HOA and may not direct staff per our contract with our MC.

Syndicated columnist, Kelly Richardson, an HOA attorney, has a fine article from his HOA Homefront column called something like "The President is Not El Jefe." The president serves at the pleasure of the Board. Board govern HOAs. Boards are the deciders.

We often see her board that pet their prez to abuse their power and dominate and dictate. This directors need to remember that they are still liable for nay error a bully-type president make.

More on th p[ostive attribute--at least form my view, tomorrow.



Please re-read what you just said, because it made no sense at all.

Subject to the control of the Board, but what if there is NO control? Have any idea how many three pperson board there are out there, just in California? A lot, and all a president needs in that situation is one ally, just one.
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17852


08/27/2021 5:21 PM  
This is some of what I wrote in our officer manual for the President (I made binders for each officer position, explaining the position and provided examples on how to complete the tasks of the position).


The Association President is an Officer of the Association. Officers are individuals appointed by the Board of Directors and serve at the pleasure of the Board. The individual appointed to the Office of President was also elected as a Director by the membership. Therefore, the individual is actually serving in two positions with different responsibilities.

Directors are elected by the membership and make the decisions that allow the Association to function. Examples of these decisions would be who to award contracts to, establishing the amount of annual assessments, enforce the covenants, etc. Officers implement the decisions of the Board and perform the day to day tasks of running the Association. As President there are specific tasks and duties you will be responsible for.

The president should have the ability to delegate authority, be firm but impartial, have a working knowledge of parliamentary procedure, and good common sense. It is important that he/she keeps an open line of communication to residents and is aware of their problems and concerns. The president is perceived as the official representative of the association and must clarify when he/she is speaking for the association and when he/she is speaking as an individual member.


Be the “face” and voice for the Association

As stated earlier, the President is perceived as the official representative of the association and must clarify when he/she is speaking for the association and when he/she is speaking as an individual member.

The President should not make decisions when speaking with residents, as decisions are made by the Board. The best response to most requests typically is: I’ll place the issue on the agenda and the Board will discuss it at the next meeting.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


08/27/2021 9:17 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/27/2021 4:38 PM
a Syndicated columnist, Kelly Richardson, an HOA attorney, has a fine article frm his HOA Homefront column called something like "The President is Not El Jefe." The president serves at the pleasure of the Board. Board govern HOAs. Boards are the deciders.


Did you actually read the article and then put it into the content of what Corporation Code 7210 actually says?

The board of the HOA I lived in turned all decision making over to the President Dictator. The Board was nothing but a rubber stamp and the MC went along. There is a reason why my wife and I wouldn't live in a HOA again.
BenA2
(Texas)

Posts:1108


08/28/2021 7:19 AM  
Posted By HenryS6 on 08/27/2021 1:08 PM
Posted By BenA2 on 08/27/2021 12:58 PM
I think one of the most important attributes is being a good facilitator. The president's job is to run meetings not run the association (unless your governing documents state otherwise). As such, their job is to make sure the board operates smoothly rather than be decisive or controlling. Also, humility, enough to except that you are not the boss but just another director when it comes to decision making.




I'm torn on this.

The bylaws state that my role as an officer who holds the title of President is to preside over the meetings. I am, per the bylaws, not the CEO of the HOA. I'm just a director who presides over meetings.

However, everyone I run into thinks that I am the CEO. This includes homeowners, other board members, and the property manager. Thus, everything comes to my area, and then I disburse things out from there. This is akin to the CEO role of a small company. Or maybe the operations manager of a small company.

I can't really explain to all of these people that I'm not the CEO and just a director who presides over meetings, so I end up taking this role on.

Thus, today I received 19 e-mails regarding HOA stuff. That's probably double to triple what any other director receives.

So no, I'm not "the boss". I'm just another director. Except everyone else thinks I'm "the boss".

It's a tough position.



You are right, most people do not understand it and I have the same problem but I believe I have an obligation to explain to people that I am not the CEO. It rarely takes a long explanation. Usually I just tell people that I will bring it up at the next meeting because it is a decision the board has to consider.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes someone just wants a yes or no on a trivial matter and it is more practical to just to give them an answer. For example, someone wants to replace a broken light fixture. If there is money in the budget for repairs and maintenance then I would just say yes, but they didn't need my permission in the first place because the board already approved it when they approved the budget.
HenryS6
(Arizona)

Posts:111


08/28/2021 8:38 AM  
Posted By BenA2 on 08/28/2021 7:19 AM
Posted By HenryS6 on 08/27/2021 1:08 PM
Posted By BenA2 on 08/27/2021 12:58 PM
I think one of the most important attributes is being a good facilitator. The president's job is to run meetings not run the association (unless your governing documents state otherwise). As such, their job is to make sure the board operates smoothly rather than be decisive or controlling. Also, humility, enough to except that you are not the boss but just another director when it comes to decision making.




I'm torn on this.

The bylaws state that my role as an officer who holds the title of President is to preside over the meetings. I am, per the bylaws, not the CEO of the HOA. I'm just a director who presides over meetings.

However, everyone I run into thinks that I am the CEO. This includes homeowners, other board members, and the property manager. Thus, everything comes to my area, and then I disburse things out from there. This is akin to the CEO role of a small company. Or maybe the operations manager of a small company.

I can't really explain to all of these people that I'm not the CEO and just a director who presides over meetings, so I end up taking this role on.

Thus, today I received 19 e-mails regarding HOA stuff. That's probably double to triple what any other director receives.

So no, I'm not "the boss". I'm just another director. Except everyone else thinks I'm "the boss".

It's a tough position.



You are right, most people do not understand it and I have the same problem but I believe I have an obligation to explain to people that I am not the CEO. It rarely takes a long explanation. Usually I just tell people that I will bring it up at the next meeting because it is a decision the board has to consider.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes someone just wants a yes or no on a trivial matter and it is more practical to just to give them an answer. For example, someone wants to replace a broken light fixture. If there is money in the budget for repairs and maintenance then I would just say yes, but they didn't need my permission in the first place because the board already approved it when they approved the budget.




You're talking visible things like being the decision maker. I'm referring to much more mundane things.

For example, the PM decided to ask me to coordinate with the reserve study firm to provide copies of receipts, etc, and answer questions about the reserve study since I'm the president and most active board member. As president, I don't have a role in coordinating the reserve study, but as CEO I would. I could pass the buck to another person, but I happen to know the answers to the questions so might as well take the time to work with the reserve company to update the study.

It's mundane but still an example of how people come to me because I'm the president even though my role is just to preside over meetings.
AugustinD


Posts:1920


08/28/2021 9:06 AM  
Posted By HenryS6 on 08/28/2021 8:38 AM

You're talking visible things like being the decision maker. I'm referring to much more mundane things.

For example, the PM decided to ask me to coordinate with the reserve study firm to provide copies of receipts, etc, and answer questions about the reserve study since I'm the president and most active board member. As president, I don't have a role in coordinating the reserve study, but as CEO I would.
When the term "CEO" appears in HOA/COA bylaws,the bylaws qualify this with phrases like, "subject to control by the board."

The assumptions on which a reserve study rests have a huge effect on calculating what the regular assessment is and whether a special assessment or loan is needed. For these reasons, and for the archives, I believe a president/CEO should receive board approval to coordinate with reserve companies, setting remaining lifetimes of infrastructure and estimated costs to replace.

I could pass the buck to another person, but I happen to know the answers to the questions so might as well take the time to work with the reserve company to update the study.
I understand that the apathy of many directors far too often translates to the president making decisions without authority of the board and taking on heaps of responsibility. Furthermore, under such circumstances where the other directors are silent for long enough, arguably the President has authority by acquiescence of the board. That is, a pattern of conduct in violation of the Bylaws and Articles of Incorporation may amount to a de facto amendment to the bylaws and articles of incorporation.

Then again, state HOA/COA statutes say time and again that the Board calls the shots.

It's mundane but still an example of how people come to me because I'm the president even though my role is just to preside over meetings.
I believe your role is what the Bylaws say your role is.

With the exception of presiding at meetings and signing legal docs (contract et cetera) in the name of the HOA, I have yet to see HOA/COA Bylaws that say a President may act without board authority.

On the other hand, the reality is that but for very hands-on presidents who are likely exceeding their legal authority, things that need to get done would not get done. In these instances, the actual responsibility a President undertakes is enormous. After a few years, and is often reported here, burn-out is likely.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:2599


08/28/2021 9:06 AM  
I don't think we're going to get away from people thinking that the board president calls the shots.

They equate that position with other presidents of other organizations or CEOs who do have that authority. Kids even talk about growing up to be President because they think that person is powerful. You'll never dislodge that kind of long-term, fixed idea - so you just keep on with the "board has to make the decision" message.

It doesn't help that another widespread notion is the board president as dictator, unfortunately supported by the ones who behave that way.
HenryS6
(Arizona)

Posts:111


08/28/2021 9:16 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 08/28/2021 9:06 AM


The assumptions on which a reserve study rests have a huge effect on calculating what the regular assessment is and whether a special assessment or loan is needed. For these reasons, and for the archives, I believe a president/CEO should receive board approval to coordinate with reserve companies, setting remaining lifetimes of infrastructure and estimated costs to replace.




I think you are overestimating my "power" when working with reserves companies. I don't set the lifetime of infrastructure or estimate costs to replace. All I do is provide copies of receipts for the reserve items that we have replaced last year and this year, and any cost estimates for things that we are considering replacing in the future. Also I provide a statement on what reserves we pulled out since the last study and what the reason was for.

While the decision to go have a reserve study done is a board decision, we don't spend our board meeting time working out mundane things like voting on the focal for every task that needs to be done. We wouldn't accomplish anything if that is how we operated.

Hence, most people see me as the CEO of the organization.
AugustinD


Posts:1920


08/28/2021 9:36 AM  
Posted By HenryS6 on 08/28/2021 9:16 AM
I think you are overestimating my "power" when working with reserves companies. I don't set the lifetime of infrastructure or estimate costs to replace.
For the archives, on the topic of reserve studies: A board liaison absolutely should review what estimates of lifetime and costs to replace the reserve study company has made. The expertise of reserve study professionals is essential. They typically do some on-site inspections but often do not know the actual condition of the COA/HOA's infrastructure that well. The professionals, do tend to use canned formulas that do deserve tweaking, with said tweaking having a profound effect on the bottom line computation of what the regular assessment et cetera should be.

All I do is provide copies of receipts for the reserve items that we have replaced last year and this year,
Fine. Not that you need my puny input posted anonymously to an internet forum. I know you are working hard, harder than I am willing these days. If I were an owner at your COA/HOA, unless I was willing to be on the board, I would not be criticizing.
and any cost estimates for things that we are considering replacing in the future.
See above.
Also I provide a statement on what reserves we pulled out since the last study and what the reason was for.
Fine.
​[snippage]​Hence, most people see me as the CEO of the organization.
Sure. The Arizona Nonprofit Corporation Statute under section 10-3140 even backs this up:

“President” means that officer designated as the president in the articles of
incorporation or bylaws or, if not so designated, that officer authorized in the
articles of incorporation, bylaws or otherwise to perform the functions of the
chief executive officer, irrespective of the name by which designated.


Of course, the statute does not give the duties of the CEO. One then either has to go to the Bylaws for elaboration or revert to the duties of the President in both statutes and the Bylaws.

I am sure you are doing a great job, and for no compensation*. Don't let my comments from the cheap seats count for anything.



*No compensation for directors is a sore point for me. I think directors should be paid like City Councilors are paid. Not a lot. But enough to make it at least a little bit gratifying.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11665


08/28/2021 10:00 AM  
Posted By CathyA3 on 08/28/2021 9:06 AM
I don't think we're going to get away from people thinking that the board president calls the shots.

They equate that position with other presidents of other organizations or CEOs who do have that authority. Kids even talk about growing up to be President because they think that person is powerful. You'll never dislodge that kind of long-term, fixed idea - so you just keep on with the "board has to make the decision" message.

It doesn't help that another widespread notion is the board president as dictator, unfortunately supported by the ones who behave that way.



I agree.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


08/28/2021 10:56 AM  
A HOA board is made up of as little as three individuals, with officers like President, Vice President, Secretary and Treasurer. With three people, two have multiple officer positions. What if two don't do anything but show up to a meeting. Should the two have any say in what goes on in the community? I don't think folks on this forum realize how widespread this is.

Now, let's take a Board of five with a management company. The day to day operation is handled by the MC, with all the day to day duties of the officers turned over as well. Does the Secretary still do the minutes, maintain the records of the Association, prepare the membership list for ownwers, etc. How about the treasurer? Do they receive the assessments from homeowners, do they do the banking, prepare monthly financial statements, send statements out? Maybe they sit on a Finance Committee, but that is rare, very rare.

The one person who doesn't give up their duties with a management company on board is the President. I've managed 150 associations over 13 years and not many ever want the responsibility of being the leader, the majority will take any other position knowing full well all they have to do is show up to a board meeting once in a while.

In regards to reserves studies, I don't know how one can be an authority when one has never created one. I handle 50 each year. Boards have never been involved in how the studies are maintained. The reserve companies work through the management companies to provide the financial documents to handle updating the study. How many boards do you think, first, have read such a report, second, know what a reserve study really is, and third, how a reserve study is really used?
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17852


08/28/2021 11:11 AM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 08/28/2021 10:56 AM

What if two don't do anything but show up to a meeting. Should the two have any say in what goes on in the community? I don't think folks on this forum realize how widespread this is.




Actually, I think that most of those on this site do realize this.


Posted By MaxB4 on 08/28/2021 10:56 AM


Now, let's take a Board of five with a management company. The day to day operation is handled by the MC, with all the day to day duties of the officers turned over as well. Does the Secretary still do the minutes, maintain the records of the Association, prepare the membership list for ownwers, etc. How about the treasurer? Do they receive the assessments from homeowners, do they do the banking, prepare monthly financial statements, send statements out? Maybe they sit on a Finance Committee, but that is rare, very rare.




Unfortunately, many Assocaitions that have this situation also think that the turned over the responsibilities as well. They don't bother to do the checks and balances on the MC.


Posted By MaxB4 on 08/28/2021 10:56 AM

In regards to reserves studies, I don't know how one can be an authority when one has never created one. I handle 50 each year. Boards have never been involved in how the studies are maintained. The reserve companies work through the management companies to provide the financial documents to handle updating the study. How many boards do you think, first, have read such a report, second, know what a reserve study really is, and third, how a reserve study is really used?





More then there used to be.

AugustinD


Posts:1920


08/28/2021 11:29 AM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 08/28/2021 10:56 AM
Boards have never been involved in how the studies are maintained. The reserve companies work through the management companies to provide the financial documents to handle updating the study. How many boards do you think, first, have read such a report, second, know what a reserve study really is, and third, how a reserve study is really used?
Close to zero. Hence the disaster of Champlain Towers South and many other condominiums stuck with Special Assessments amounting to $30,000 or more per unit in the last twenty years or so. I am firm in my position that either statutes need to change, or insurance companies need to crack down: Boards can either roll up their sleeves and learn about reserve studies, or the law or insurers can require that Boards accept at face value what hired, reserve study professionals produce and require compliance with the study's recommendations. You should support this too. If you do not, stop the hijacking; start a new thread; and cough up some solutions that may help prevent another Champlain Towers South.

MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


08/28/2021 12:11 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 08/28/2021 11:29 AM
Posted By MaxB4 on 08/28/2021 10:56 AM
Boards have never been involved in how the studies are maintained. The reserve companies work through the management companies to provide the financial documents to handle updating the study. How many boards do you think, first, have read such a report, second, know what a reserve study really is, and third, how a reserve study is really used?
Close to zero. Hence the disaster of Champlain Towers South and many other condominiums stuck with Special Assessments amounting to $30,000 or more per unit in the last twenty years or so. I am firm in my position that either statutes need to change, or insurance companies need to crack down: Boards can either roll up their sleeves and learn about reserve studies, or the law or insurers can require that Boards accept at face value what hired, reserve study professionals produce and require compliance with the study's recommendations. You should support this too. If you do not, stop the hijacking; start a new thread; and cough up some solutions that may help prevent another Champlain Towers South.




You're in Florida, you folks need to deal with your messes down there. California ain't perfect, far from it, but there are a lot of legislation that comes out affecting HOA's. Associations get some, homeowners get some.Insurance companies ain't going to do anything, they will just ass on their costs to everyone else. Currently, Florida is more concerned about denying there every was a pandemic, taking people's voting rights away, than fixing the Surfside diaster.

My solutions. Well, working with a Educational Committee with CAI, I was part of a team teaching Board Members all aspects of HOA's. Based on the Committee's research, it was the most extensive program of any offered in the country, all for free. What have you done lately?
AugustinD


Posts:1920


08/28/2021 12:20 PM  
I am not in Florida.

End of hijacking.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


08/28/2021 12:23 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 08/28/2021 12:20 PM
I am not in Florida.

End of hijacking.



I am not hijacking anything, calling you out, I am, because everyone else is afraid of you.
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:794


08/28/2021 1:48 PM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 08/28/2021 12:23 PM
Posted By AugustinD on 08/28/2021 12:20 PM
I am not in Florida.

End of hijacking.



I am not hijacking anything, calling you out, I am, because everyone else is afraid of you.




Auggie, please don't hurt me! Max, you are too funny!!!
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


08/28/2021 1:59 PM  
Posted By JohnT38 on 08/28/2021 1:48 PM
Posted By MaxB4 on 08/28/2021 12:23 PM
Posted By AugustinD on 08/28/2021 12:20 PM
I am not in Florida.

End of hijacking.



I am not hijacking anything, calling you out, I am, because everyone else is afraid of you.




Auggie, please don't hurt me! Max, you are too funny!!!



Time for your senior nap?
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8729


08/28/2021 5:23 PM  
The more I see today from Max, the more I realize what gawdawful accounts he has:; Candidates lie on their candidate statement. Boards know virtually nothing about their reserves. Most directors are basically deadwood and on & on. (Sure that there often is one piece of deadwood on our Board, but never most.) Max's opinion of his clients (and his sophomoric remarks here--which he thinks are "zingers") tells me that he simply is unable to get "good" accounts.

None of his experiences are true in my HOA and, so far as I know, some neighboring HOAs. In our 3 reserve studies, we have about 120 components. I know most of them. Other newer directors know a lot about them. We all know our % funded. We have an onsite study done every three years as recommended by our reserve firm, a major actor actor in the field of reserves. And offsites done all other years. The certified analyst gets his info from the PM and from the building engineer. On this 3rd year, which is this year, he also met with the Board and walked part of the premises with some of us. We directors know that our % funded will drop for '22 since the analyst is adding components not previously in our main study. We will discuss, deliberate and debate all of this in an open meeting soon and prepare the '22 budget. We will accept most, but perhaps not all of the analyst's recommendations

Our treasurer is required to chair our Finance Committee. There always is at least one other director on it. Whether, with a PM, the secretary takes notes, the treasurer actually writes financial reports, etc., depends entirely on the HOA's contract with the MC. Ours is for full service, so our officers do not do those things. As a Board we concentrate on policy, planning for the future, seeking cost savings, coming up (at the moment) with ways to retain our security officers, interviewing 5 engineering firms early next week to see if we're getting the best service for the best price. We also are in the process of beginning to rehab our 300+ balconies after a year of inspections by our architect. Tuesday, at an open meetings, we probably will accept some pricing on rehabbing our two lobbies and our 44 residential hallways. We need to see numerous owners' opinions & remarks and opinions on them, which directors received today. We rewrote Election Rules and our Bylaws last year and are almost finished with our 100+ page CC&Rs restatement.

The above isn't to pat our Board on the back but to show that there probably afire plenty of boards that are full of hard-working, honest, resourceful and knowledgeable volunteers. This Forum is to be a "positive" place for community leaders to share ideas and learn. Slamming directors does not help anyone achieve that goal.

Maybe tomorrow, I'll finally get to "attributes" of a good president, imo. That is, if I'm not too scared of Augie.
AugustinD


Posts:1920


08/28/2021 5:36 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/28/2021 5:23 PM
We have an onsite study done every three years as recommended by our reserve firm, a major actor actor in the field of reserves. And offsites done all other years.
I am not sure I understand. Are you saying, roughly, that in the years the "offsite" is done, your reserve firm takes, for one, some input from your condo/CID and checks the numbers in the most recent onsite study to see if the firm recommends any major changes to budgeting (and especially assessments)?
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


08/28/2021 6:52 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/28/2021 5:23 PM
The more I see today from Max, the more I realize what gawdawful accounts he has:; Candidates lie on their candidate statement. Boards know virtually nothing about their reserves. Most directors are basically deadwood and on & on. (Sure that there often is one piece of deadwood on our Board, but never most.) Max's opinion of his clients (and his sophomoric remarks here--which he thinks are "zingers") tells me that he simply is unable to get "good" accounts.

None of his experiences are true in my HOA and, so far as I know, some neighboring HOAs. In our 3 reserve studies, we have about 120 components. I know most of them. Other newer directors know a lot about them. We all know our % funded. We have an onsite study done every three years as recommended by our reserve firm, a major actor actor in the field of reserves. And offsites done all other years. The certified analyst gets his info from the PM and from the building engineer. On this 3rd year, which is this year, he also met with the Board and walked part of the premises with some of us. We directors know that our % funded will drop for '22 since the analyst is adding components not previously in our main study. We will discuss, deliberate and debate all of this in an open meeting soon and prepare the '22 budget. We will accept most, but perhaps not all of the analyst's recommendations

Our treasurer is required to chair our Finance Committee. There always is at least one other director on it. Whether, with a PM, the secretary takes notes, the treasurer actually writes financial reports, etc., depends entirely on the HOA's contract with the MC. Ours is for full service, so our officers do not do those things. As a Board we concentrate on policy, planning for the future, seeking cost savings, coming up (at the moment) with ways to retain our security officers, interviewing 5 engineering firms early next week to see if we're getting the best service for the best price. We also are in the process of beginning to rehab our 300+ balconies after a year of inspections by our architect. Tuesday, at an open meetings, we probably will accept some pricing on rehabbing our two lobbies and our 44 residential hallways. We need to see numerous owners' opinions & remarks and opinions on them, which directors received today. We rewrote Election Rules and our Bylaws last year and are almost finished with our 100+ page CC&Rs restatement.

The above isn't to pat our Board on the back but to show that there probably afire plenty of boards that are full of hard-working, honest, resourceful and knowledgeable volunteers. This Forum is to be a "positive" place for community leaders to share ideas and learn. Slamming directors does not help anyone achieve that goal.

Maybe tomorrow, I'll finally get to "attributes" of a good president, imo. That is, if I'm not too scared of Augie.



Please point out exactly where I said any candidate LIED on their candidate statements. There is a different in being authentic or geninue an actually lying. Hell, I even gave you candidate statements from people running for governor in YOUR state as a comparsion to what we receive.

Exactly what are you referring to with in regards to " not able to get good accounts"? What is a good account in your eyes. All mine can opay their bills, including mine (that's a must), have low receivables, relatively good reserves, get their annual disclosures on time, all have updated reserve studies, all have annual financial reviews, all have web portals with current association information including minutes and financials. Please explain what your definition of a "good" account so maybe I can change my marketing strategies to get your type of account.

I'm semi-retired and my daughter runs the day to day operation. I started this company late in life, and after leaving Countrywide. I turned down a GM job with your management company 10 years ago, because of turnover rates, I would only do it as an employee of the associatuon, not the MC. So, no I don't manage high rises and I don't have any association where dues are $1200.00 a month.

Onsite reserve studies are not a recommendation by your major actor actor in the field of reserves, they are a requirement of Civil Code. Now the statue does say doing a diligent visual inspection, but most of us take that as a onsite inspection.

There are almost 400,000, if not more, HOA's in the United States. You gave your side of your HOA and I gave my side of mine, plus accounts I have dealt with in 13 years. Rather than saying there are good Boards, I'll say there are good individuals volunteering their time helping their neighbors out. While you state this forum mission, providing a positve place to share, who comes here, people who have problems with their HOA. How many have come here and state that HOA's are the greatest thing since apple pie. Whar dio some here offer as help, you have no case, hire a attorney or you're not qualified to be a board members because you have no idea how to read your governing documemnts and state statues.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8729


08/28/2021 9:40 PM  
To Augustin: The years that he doesn't come onsite he consults via phone and email with our PM to get updates on any changes or repairs/replacements to our components during the year. The engineer gives him any updates on the conditions of our many mechanical & plumbing components. The analyst also may have new information on, say, whether there have been changes in our local area re: how long certain components may be expected to last--their RUL. These are just a few examples of the offsite years. He charges less, of course, for those years.

He always recommends we be fully funded so estimates what that would cost for the next year for each of the three studies. But at our request, he supplies us with other scenarios for different % funded scenarios. He makes no budget recommendation per se.

But I might have misunderstood your question. Please don't yell at me ; )

KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8729


08/29/2021 2:17 PM  
For some reason, we are not submitting much about our opinions of attributes of a (good) assn. president. Instead the emphasis has been on "duties" or roles. Max even went so far as to write about duties of the prez of a "company," like opportunities for "expansion." Max's citation, which he refuses to correctly cite and pretends, instead, that he wrote it himself, doesn't even fit HOAs.

I just totaled how many different presidents I've served with since 2007 when first elected to our board (took a year off in '19.) We have had eight that includes the year I served when no one else would even though I didn't want to due to travel abroad for 88 days of that period. Luckily we had an excellent VP who did very well.

Our two ablest presidents served 2008-2010 and 2020 - present. They shared being male and have advanced degrees in Public Administration and in Organizational Development. So each had some background in being trained for leadership. One had been a high school English teacher and then administrator for LA City Schools for several years. The other was career U.S. Air Force and then corporate big shot in an IT firm.

Their strengths at meetings are as calm, welcoming, reassuring presiders. They always are polite to the other directors, our PM and, most importantly to owners in attendance at our open meetings. They know how to keep meetings moving. They played no favorites among directors. They both sought, along with their particular fellow directors, transparency & openness. They each show excellent body language--relaxed, interested, friendly.* They both communicated at meetings and in their monthly President's Message in our newsletter with very good verbal & writing skills and a knack for easy-going positive communication.

They treat the PMs respectfully and appreciated their knowledge especially about our complicated budgets and plumbing & mechanical systems, in which neither had much interest or strength. But they, with the rest of the Board, made sure we had a strong treasurer and Finance Committee. Another aside is that neither were very knowledgeable about our governing docs, but the latter has learned CA Civil Code fairly well. He also, which is new here has formed relationships with several other nearby high rise board members to share ideas, etc.

* As noted by Augustin. To me, and maybe only me, Zoom meetings have made it much dicier to "read" non-verbal behavior. I had no idea how much I reply on this until Zoom.

Believe me, I've also experienced the bullies, the ignorant in all ways, the negative attitudes, the dishonest (vs. authentic), the secrecy-obsessed due to actual fear of Owners. but that's not the subject here.
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