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Subject: HOA blocking speech between owners
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Author Messages
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11667


08/25/2021 8:55 AM  
Posted By NpS on 08/24/2021 9:04 PM
Brad
It still comes down to something you said early in this thread.
- You can't work with anyone who doesn't lives up to your standards (I'm paraphrasing here).
And for that attitude, you got bounced after 5 months.
- And in a more recent post, you seem mystified by how that bouncing actually happened, and you admit that you did nothing to save your seat.

And on and on it goes. You were right. You were right. You were right. They wronged you. They wronged you. They wronged you. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz







Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
BradT4
(Illinois)

Posts:32


08/27/2021 5:40 AM  
During the 5 months that I was on the board I was continually asking that we have a board meeting. Many of the worries I had about our association I did not want to put in writing as I thought our documents needed updating to comply with State law. This was my first time in a HOA and I had a lot to learn with no help.
There are very few board meetings and they are still doing them by phone conference call. I have a very hard time hearing what is being said. I also find that trying to communicate that way just does not work. People talk and I don't know who is talking. During the recent board meeting, the day before I got the violation letter, someone asked someone else if a letter should still be sent to an owner. I believe that was about sending me the letter.
I have met many owners and now have many as friends. Most of them are so disgruntled about how the board and the past property manager has treated them, they will not attend board meetings and refrain from having contact with the PM if they can avoid it.
We just got a new PM and the reports are that she is polite and responds to request much quicker, unlike the previous manager.

BradT4
(Illinois)

Posts:32


08/27/2021 6:14 AM  
Your paraphrasing my words is how so much of this got turned into something other than my first post.
I said that I would not be able to work with those that did not want the help I was providing.
I said nothing about them living up to my standards. So that is really changing my thought to your thought.

Was I mystified by how that bouncing actually happened? Yes, because of my research about that, I thought that they were not following IL law that says that HOA's have to comply to IL laws about that.


During my work for the HOA, I sent the board information along with documentation so they could see for themselves and not just take my word about things that were being done wrong. I guess that was too much, as the President himself said he was overwhelmed. In other words, he did not have the time to look at it or understand it. He was missing (absent) for much of that time as even our PM was sending email to him asking him to answer emails she had sent weeks ago.
I pleaded for board meetings to work out the many issues I had. Being the Treasurer and on the Landscape committee, looking at work orders and Architectural improvement forms, I was doing a lot of work and yes I was sending a lot of information.
Many other board members would vote to approve Architectural improvements that seemed to violate our documents. When I pointed that out, instead of talking about it so I could understand why it should be approved, it seemed I was irritating them. Besides for that, if 3 of the 5 directors voted yes to approve, it was approved anyway.
Not one board meeting happened during the 5 months I was on the board.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:2607


08/27/2021 9:10 AM  
Posted By BradT4 on 08/27/2021 6:14 AM
Your paraphrasing my words is how so much of this got turned into something other than my first post.
I said that I would not be able to work with those that did not want the help I was providing.
I said nothing about them living up to my standards. So that is really changing my thought to your thought.

Was I mystified by how that bouncing actually happened? Yes, because of my research about that, I thought that they were not following IL law that says that HOA's have to comply to IL laws about that.


During my work for the HOA, I sent the board information along with documentation so they could see for themselves and not just take my word about things that were being done wrong. I guess that was too much, as the President himself said he was overwhelmed. In other words, he did not have the time to look at it or understand it. He was missing (absent) for much of that time as even our PM was sending email to him asking him to answer emails she had sent weeks ago.
I pleaded for board meetings to work out the many issues I had. Being the Treasurer and on the Landscape committee, looking at work orders and Architectural improvement forms, I was doing a lot of work and yes I was sending a lot of information.
Many other board members would vote to approve Architectural improvements that seemed to violate our documents. When I pointed that out, instead of talking about it so I could understand why it should be approved, it seemed I was irritating them. Besides for that, if 3 of the 5 directors voted yes to approve, it was approved anyway.
Not one board meeting happened during the 5 months I was on the board.



I think I can see what happened here.

Nothing moves very fast in HOAs, and boards often have too much to do and not enough time to do it. I can see how the board president would have been overwhelmed and trying to give you a message.

Something one of my first bosses told me when I brought a problem to him: "Problems I've got. It's solutions I need. Go back and think about this, come up with three possible solutions, and your recommendation. Then we'll talk." Enlightenment occurred.

What you did was hit them with problems and info without any plan for organizing, prioritizing or tackling them. And yeah, that's genuinely annoying for a busy boss.

We had a new board member some years back, no experience with condo living and more importantly no business or management experience. She was like a roomba on steroids, tearing off in all directions, asking questions but never listening to the answers, hiring people without telling anyone, etc. I kept telling her to SLOW DOWN, to which she'd say "well, I didn't know" and she'd go tearing off on something else. She was incredibly disruptive, antagonized the rest of the board as well as the PM (and you really had to work at it to annoy the PM), antagonized some of our vendors and the owner of the management company, spread misinformation, disclosed confidential information... Not only did she not accomplish anything, she made it hard for the rest of us to accomplish anything while we cleaned up the trail of debris.

The bottom line, as for any problem in HOAs or COAs, is fix it, live with it, or move. To fix it you'll need enough allies to work with you to elect enough board members who see things your way. If that's not possible, you're stuck with trying for a legal solution. If fixing it is off the table, it's live with it or move. Only you will know which of these options best fits your circumstances.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11667


08/27/2021 3:00 PM  
Posted By CathyA3 on 08/27/2021 9:10 AM
Posted By BradT4 on 08/27/2021 6:14 AM
Your paraphrasing my words is how so much of this got turned into something other than my first post.
I said that I would not be able to work with those that did not want the help I was providing.
I said nothing about them living up to my standards. So that is really changing my thought to your thought.

Was I mystified by how that bouncing actually happened? Yes, because of my research about that, I thought that they were not following IL law that says that HOA's have to comply to IL laws about that.


During my work for the HOA, I sent the board information along with documentation so they could see for themselves and not just take my word about things that were being done wrong. I guess that was too much, as the President himself said he was overwhelmed. In other words, he did not have the time to look at it or understand it. He was missing (absent) for much of that time as even our PM was sending email to him asking him to answer emails she had sent weeks ago.
I pleaded for board meetings to work out the many issues I had. Being the Treasurer and on the Landscape committee, looking at work orders and Architectural improvement forms, I was doing a lot of work and yes I was sending a lot of information.
Many other board members would vote to approve Architectural improvements that seemed to violate our documents. When I pointed that out, instead of talking about it so I could understand why it should be approved, it seemed I was irritating them. Besides for that, if 3 of the 5 directors voted yes to approve, it was approved anyway.
Not one board meeting happened during the 5 months I was on the board.



I think I can see what happened here.

Nothing moves very fast in HOAs, and boards often have too much to do and not enough time to do it. I can see how the board president would have been overwhelmed and trying to give you a message.

Something one of my first bosses told me when I brought a problem to him: "Problems I've got. It's solutions I need. Go back and think about this, come up with three possible solutions, and your recommendation. Then we'll talk." Enlightenment occurred.

What you did was hit them with problems and info without any plan for organizing, prioritizing or tackling them. And yeah, that's genuinely annoying for a busy boss.

We had a new board member some years back, no experience with condo living and more importantly no business or management experience. She was like a roomba on steroids, tearing off in all directions, asking questions but never listening to the answers, hiring people without telling anyone, etc. I kept telling her to SLOW DOWN, to which she'd say "well, I didn't know" and she'd go tearing off on something else. She was incredibly disruptive, antagonized the rest of the board as well as the PM (and you really had to work at it to annoy the PM), antagonized some of our vendors and the owner of the management company, spread misinformation, disclosed confidential information... Not only did she not accomplish anything, she made it hard for the rest of us to accomplish anything while we cleaned up the trail of debris.

The bottom line, as for any problem in HOAs or COAs, is fix it, live with it, or move. To fix it you'll need enough allies to work with you to elect enough board members who see things your way. If that's not possible, you're stuck with trying for a legal solution. If fixing it is off the table, it's live with it or move. Only you will know which of these options best fits your circumstances.




Sound advice. It brings to mind the story of the little boy crying Wolf..Wolf.......

CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:2607


08/28/2021 5:07 AM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/27/2021 3:00 PM
Posted By CathyA3 on 08/27/2021 9:10 AM
Posted By BradT4 on 08/27/2021 6:14 AM
Your paraphrasing my words is how so much of this got turned into something other than my first post.
I said that I would not be able to work with those that did not want the help I was providing.
I said nothing about them living up to my standards. So that is really changing my thought to your thought.

Was I mystified by how that bouncing actually happened? Yes, because of my research about that, I thought that they were not following IL law that says that HOA's have to comply to IL laws about that.


During my work for the HOA, I sent the board information along with documentation so they could see for themselves and not just take my word about things that were being done wrong. I guess that was too much, as the President himself said he was overwhelmed. In other words, he did not have the time to look at it or understand it. He was missing (absent) for much of that time as even our PM was sending email to him asking him to answer emails she had sent weeks ago.
I pleaded for board meetings to work out the many issues I had. Being the Treasurer and on the Landscape committee, looking at work orders and Architectural improvement forms, I was doing a lot of work and yes I was sending a lot of information.
Many other board members would vote to approve Architectural improvements that seemed to violate our documents. When I pointed that out, instead of talking about it so I could understand why it should be approved, it seemed I was irritating them. Besides for that, if 3 of the 5 directors voted yes to approve, it was approved anyway.
Not one board meeting happened during the 5 months I was on the board.



I think I can see what happened here.

Nothing moves very fast in HOAs, and boards often have too much to do and not enough time to do it. I can see how the board president would have been overwhelmed and trying to give you a message.

Something one of my first bosses told me when I brought a problem to him: "Problems I've got. It's solutions I need. Go back and think about this, come up with three possible solutions, and your recommendation. Then we'll talk." Enlightenment occurred.

What you did was hit them with problems and info without any plan for organizing, prioritizing or tackling them. And yeah, that's genuinely annoying for a busy boss.

We had a new board member some years back, no experience with condo living and more importantly no business or management experience. She was like a roomba on steroids, tearing off in all directions, asking questions but never listening to the answers, hiring people without telling anyone, etc. I kept telling her to SLOW DOWN, to which she'd say "well, I didn't know" and she'd go tearing off on something else. She was incredibly disruptive, antagonized the rest of the board as well as the PM (and you really had to work at it to annoy the PM), antagonized some of our vendors and the owner of the management company, spread misinformation, disclosed confidential information... Not only did she not accomplish anything, she made it hard for the rest of us to accomplish anything while we cleaned up the trail of debris.

The bottom line, as for any problem in HOAs or COAs, is fix it, live with it, or move. To fix it you'll need enough allies to work with you to elect enough board members who see things your way. If that's not possible, you're stuck with trying for a legal solution. If fixing it is off the table, it's live with it or move. Only you will know which of these options best fits your circumstances.




Sound advice. It brings to mind the story of the little boy crying Wolf..Wolf.......




The thing is, I think Brad may be right about his take on things. It's not that he's wrong. It's that he got elected to a board that thinks it has a handle on how to do a tough job, and he tells them they're doing it all wrong. That sort of message is never well received.

So people in these situations need to come up with a plan for communicating their message and getting things turned around, and that can take a long time - cultivating allies, going through a few election cycles, and generally educating people. It's hard work - and many look at it and think that this wasn't what they'd signed up for when they bought in an HOA/COA.

I sympathize. I'm one of those who thinks that if I just show people "the facts", they'll go "oh yeah, you're right" and change course. It *never* works that way - but still I live in hope (and disappointment). :-)
AugustinD


Posts:1937


08/28/2021 8:01 AM  
Posted By CathyA3 on 08/28/2021 5:07 AM
The thing is, I think Brad may be right about his take on things. It's not that he's wrong. It's that he got elected to a board that thinks it has a handle on how to do a tough job, and he tells them they're doing it all wrong. That sort of message is never well received.

So people in these situations need to come up with a plan for communicating their message and getting things turned around, and that can take a long time - cultivating allies, going through a few election cycles, and generally educating people. It's hard work - and many look at it and think that this wasn't what they'd signed up for when they bought in an HOA/COA.

I sympathize. I'm one of those who thinks that if I just show people "the facts", they'll go "oh yeah, you're right" and change course. It *never* works that way - but still I live in hope (and disappointment). :-)
Respectfully, I do not think that you would post, as BradT4 did, that "I did not try to tell the workers what to do, only that what they did was not the right thing to do as I foresee winter with frozen puddles on the new asphalt, and there is still water sitting on the drive after rain," and then claim, "I have no desire and I know it would be wrong of me to try to tell someones workers how to do their job," and repeatedly assert he did not disrupt the workers.

With "reasoning" like this, and if I were on this board, then I would not be sure that I could trust BradT4 on any issue.

BradT4, how come you do not just own that you were talking to the workers; being critical; did interrupt them; and will not do it again?
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