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Subject: Reasonable Accommodation Pool - Anxiety
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JakeW1
(Florida)

Posts:36


06/18/2021 8:21 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 06/18/2021 8:03 AM
First the forum has this:
Posted By JakeW1 on 06/16/2021 4:20 PM
The covenant language says "pools must be constructed in the rear of the lot", and the ACC group has always interpreted this to mean 'not going beyond the rear plane of the home'.
Second the forum has this:
Posted By JakeW1 on 06/16/2021 5:14 PM
The ACC always rules that 'side pools' are not allowed in the community, they interpret the covenant language to require any pool to stay behind the 'rear plane' of the homes.
Above, the first alleged interpretation by the ACC does not make sense to me. The second alleged interpretation does.

Third the forum has this:
Posted By JakeW1 on 06/17/2021 6:41 AM
this ACC group is concerned about us having a screen visible and other members thinking they can submit for 'side pools' because of my application.
Fourth the forum has this:
Posted By JakeW1 on 06/17/2021 6:51 AM
the covenants say 'pools must be constructed in the rear of the lot', the ACC group only interprets that to mean 'behind the rear plane of the home'. There are no exceptions and they cite some section about 'general conformity to the community' aka 'this is how we have always done it so we will continue to do so'.
It appears the OP has so far located exactly one home with a side pool. Here's one of his statements to this effect:
Posted By JakeW1 on 06/18/2021 5:51 AM
I have found a home in my community with a side pool and no real privacy fence (no screen enclosure either), literally a stone throw away, but they probably got it approved years before this ACC group was on the committee.
AugustinD observations:

-- The covenant allows only pools in the rear of the lot. The ACC has said this means side pools are not allowed. This ACC interpretation of the covenants makes sense. The first post by the OP seems to have a post-o pertainining to the ACC's interpretation. This post-o (as I call it) left me puzzling for quite awhile.

-- The ACC has said it is seeking, among other things, conformity in the appearance of the HOA. I think the courts generally support this as a valid criterion, especially if the governing documents (including the HOA's master plan) talk about conformity.

-- The OP seeks a pool whose area, looking down at the lot, covers a great deal of the area on the side of the house. The proposed pool extends forward of the rear plane of the building (building meaning house), in violation of the covenants.

-- I gather the 30 x 15 foot pool the OP wants either will not fit into the rear of the OP's lot, or the fit is cumbersome especially taking into account other requirements for pool design. I think this point needs clarification before the OP talks to the two law firms.

-- The reasonable accommodations the OP wants is to put the pool largely on the side of the house and to have screens around the pool set a certain way.

-- Is selective enforcement going on when one other home has a side pool, approved or not approved, long ago? I think the ACC denying the OP's (largely) side pool, all while one other lot may be in violation of the prohibition on side pools, is probably not a type of selective enforcement that the OP can use with success in his battle.

-- If I were on the ACC, I would need more persuasion about why a pool cannot go in the rear of this lot. Diagrams would be key.

-- I do advise the OP to use diagrams in the meeting with the attorneys. I think he should try to present his position and the ACC's position more like I have presented it above. Why? Because the attorneys need the facts here to decide how they will advise the OP.

-- I think slogging through the presentation above has led to a lot of misunderstandings. At this writing, I think the OP's version of the "facts" is kind of slanted in his favor. If the attorneys have to spend time figuring out what may be slanted and what is not slanted, this is that much more money out of the OP's pocket.

1.5 cents




Hi - thanks for the input.

-Technically my request is not in 'violation' of the covenants, it only goes against the ACC 'interpretation' currently, as someone previously pointed out that ACC interpretations can change on a whim based on who is on the committee at the time. The covenants do not say a pool cannot pass the rear plane of the house anywhere, 'rear lot' is not defined anywhere legally or documented anywhere, I have even asked for the POA attorney to provide a document stating their position and they don't have one.

-I am amending my application to remove the 'screen enclosure' which the ACC group seems to have the most angst about now, per the last communication I received from the POA.

-I have provided several clear diagrams and surveys of my lot to the ACC and POA that clearly make it evident you cannot fit a pool behind the house itself due to setback requirements.

-I have received conflicting information from the first ACC meeting, to the second, and now for how I am amending my application to remove the enclosure. The handling of my 'reasonable accommodation' has been reduced to "Sue us".

-I doubt I will get anything done with selective enforcement; they have a clause that allows the ACC the freedom to approve or deny anything at their discretion even if they made a different decision in the past.

-In speaking with 2 attorneys so far, I am hoping to find one with more expertise in the FHA/HOA/ACC area. If I can't get approval for my project with no screen enclosure now.

AugustinD


Posts:1920


06/18/2021 8:46 AM  
Posted By JakeW1 on 06/18/2021 8:21 AM
-Technically my request is not in 'violation' of the covenants, it only goes against the ACC 'interpretation'
JakeW1, thank you for your patience. I disagree with your claim above. You said the covenants require pools to be "constructed in the rear of the lot." My take is that what you want is largely on one side of the lot, and this one side of the lot is not the rear of the lot. I think it's important to see what kind of "read" others have on the covenant. The more varying the "read" is from one person to the next, the more this will cost you should this ever, in the extreme, land in court.
currently, as someone previously pointed out that ACC interpretations can change on a whim based on who is on the committee at the time.
I do not see any evidence that the ACC's interpretation has changed. At most, I see some speculation that the ACC's interpretation has changed.
The covenants do not say a pool cannot pass the rear plane of the house anywhere, 'rear lot' is not defined anywhere legally or documented anywhere,
Are you aware that the first rule of judicial interpretation is to look for the "plain meaning" of a word or phrase? If the "plain meaning" is not clear, and the meaning is ambiguous (per court standards, which I admit are vague), then on this issue (concerning the meaning of "rear of the lot"), your attorneys will say ambiguity means the court has to err on the side of the HOA member and free enjoyment of property.

In my opinion, you may be unconsciously biased in your own favor. To me, "rear of the lot" means "rear of the lot." It is not ambiguous.

I believe an attorney's job is partly to try to forecast what a court would say. I think a competent attorney here would say, "Well... " Meaning that your argument is far from any kind of slam dunk. It will likely be expensive to make before a judge, as the HOA's attorney argues against your (or your attorney's) interpretation.
-I am amending my application to remove the 'screen enclosure' which the ACC group seems to have the most angst about now, per the last communication I received from the POA.

-I have provided several clear diagrams and surveys of my lot to the ACC and POA that clearly make it evident you cannot fit a pool behind the house itself due to setback requirements.
Got it.

[snip stuff I do not find relevant at the moment]
-I doubt I will get anything done with selective enforcement; they have a clause that allows the ACC the freedom to approve or deny anything at their discretion even if they made a different decision in the past.
The courts have been clear that clauses like this are far from bulletproof. Bottom line: Where a HOA or ACC has discretionary powers, they must be "reasonable." What "reasonable" is depends.

On the other hand and in this instance, I have doubts you have much of a selective enforcement argument.
-In speaking with 2 attorneys so far, I am hoping to find one with more expertise in the FHA/HOA/ACC area. If I can't get approval for my project with no screen enclosure now.
Understood. I have found that attorneys with Fair Housing experience are rare indeed. More and more one finds firms with a national presence that cross state lines to do fair housing lawsuits -- if there is enough money in it for them.

Then again, some attorneys will do anything for a buck.

At least you have two law firms that will sit down and discuss this with you so you can kick around some ideas and maybe more.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


06/18/2021 8:56 AM  
I would say that if the pool was constructed in the back portion of a house which is behind a fence t hat would be consider in the rear of the lot. Most intelligent people would deem the front yard and side yard in the front portion of the house, and anything behind a fence the backyard.
JakeW1
(Florida)

Posts:36


06/18/2021 9:02 AM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 06/18/2021 8:56 AM
I would say that if the pool was constructed in the back portion of a house which is behind a fence t hat would be consider in the rear of the lot. Most intelligent people would deem the front yard and side yard in the front portion of the house, and anything behind a fence the backyard.




This is the logic I have assumed myself, and technically my proposal starts below the rear plane of my home (half of the pool), and about 15-20 feet is extending beyond the 'rear plane'. So on a survey, the location of this pool would be in the 'rear corner of the lot' per my 'biased opinion perhaps' but extending partially upwards beyond the plane of the home. No where near how far up the other home already has across the road from me in my same community - but I digress.

The mid point of my home is still yet another 20-30 feet above where the pool would stop. That is where the fence would start and go over to my property line to come down and cover the yard and pool from sight.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


06/18/2021 9:06 AM  
Posted By JakeW1 on 06/18/2021 9:02 AM
Posted By MaxB4 on 06/18/2021 8:56 AM
I would say that if the pool was constructed in the back portion of a house which is behind a fence t hat would be consider in the rear of the lot. Most intelligent people would deem the front yard and side yard in the front portion of the house, and anything behind a fence the backyard.




This is the logic I have assumed myself, and technically my proposal starts below the rear plane of my home (half of the pool), and about 15-20 feet is extending beyond the 'rear plane'. So on a survey, the location of this pool would be in the 'rear corner of the lot' per my 'biased opinion perhaps' but extending partially upwards beyond the plane of the home. No where near how far up the other home already has across the road from me in my same community - but I digress.

The mid point of my home is still yet another 20-30 feet above where the pool would stop. That is where the fence would start and go over to my property line to come down and cover the yard and pool from sight.



My pool is in the rear and side of the rear yard and thank whoever I don't live in an HOA.
BillH10
(Texas)

Posts:783


06/18/2021 9:09 AM  
Max, not necessarily.

In the Association in which we reside, the front of the lot is any portion of the property forward of the front gate or fence, which may be no closer than 6" to the forward plane of the portion of the residence which abuts the fence or gate. In simple terms, it is any portion of the property which may be viewed from the street, regardless of the forward plane(s) of the residential structure.

Every other location on the property 'behind' the previously described fence or gate is deemed the 'rear' of the property regardless of location which therefore includes 'side' yards.
JakeW1
(Florida)

Posts:36


06/18/2021 9:10 AM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 06/18/2021 9:06 AM
Posted By JakeW1 on 06/18/2021 9:02 AM
Posted By MaxB4 on 06/18/2021 8:56 AM
I would say that if the pool was constructed in the back portion of a house which is behind a fence t hat would be consider in the rear of the lot. Most intelligent people would deem the front yard and side yard in the front portion of the house, and anything behind a fence the backyard.




This is the logic I have assumed myself, and technically my proposal starts below the rear plane of my home (half of the pool), and about 15-20 feet is extending beyond the 'rear plane'. So on a survey, the location of this pool would be in the 'rear corner of the lot' per my 'biased opinion perhaps' but extending partially upwards beyond the plane of the home. No where near how far up the other home already has across the road from me in my same community - but I digress.

The mid point of my home is still yet another 20-30 feet above where the pool would stop. That is where the fence would start and go over to my property line to come down and cover the yard and pool from sight.



My pool is in the rear and side of the rear yard and thank whoever I don't live in an HOA.




Yeah - Unfortunately finding land in this county comes at a cost beyond just the high housing prices, HOA/ACC groups with covenant management and overlords that take it a little too far (in my opinion).

What is ironic to me is the original point of my post was about reasonable accommodation because of a disability and that seems to have been swept under the rug in my situation, unless I want to press it legally which will cost me obviously. That is perhaps their strategy and hope.
JakeW1
(Florida)

Posts:36


06/18/2021 9:11 AM  
Posted By BillH10 on 06/18/2021 9:09 AM
Max, not necessarily.

In the Association in which we reside, the front of the lot is any portion of the property forward of the front gate or fence, which may be no closer than 6" to the forward plane of the portion of the residence which abuts the fence or gate. In simple terms, it is any portion of the property which may be viewed from the street, regardless of the forward plane(s) of the residential structure.

Every other location on the property 'behind' the previously described fence or gate is deemed the 'rear' of the property regardless of location which therefore includes 'side' yards.




So this interpretation would support my proposal, as I would have the pool completely hidden from view with a 6 foot privacy fence. Sadly this is not how my area is setup!
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


06/18/2021 9:33 AM  
Posted By BillH10 on 06/18/2021 9:09 AM
Max, not necessarily.

In the Association in which we reside, the front of the lot is any portion of the property forward of the front gate or fence, which may be no closer than 6" to the forward plane of the portion of the residence which abuts the fence or gate. In simple terms, it is any portion of the property which may be viewed from the street, regardless of the forward plane(s) of the residential structure.

Every other location on the property 'behind' the previously described fence or gate is deemed the 'rear' of the property regardless of location which therefore includes 'side' yards.



So if the side yard is screen from public view by a 6 foot fence, would your association deem it to be in the "rear" of the house?
JakeW1
(Florida)

Posts:36


06/18/2021 9:47 AM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 06/18/2021 9:33 AM
Posted By BillH10 on 06/18/2021 9:09 AM
Max, not necessarily.

In the Association in which we reside, the front of the lot is any portion of the property forward of the front gate or fence, which may be no closer than 6" to the forward plane of the portion of the residence which abuts the fence or gate. In simple terms, it is any portion of the property which may be viewed from the street, regardless of the forward plane(s) of the residential structure.

Every other location on the property 'behind' the previously described fence or gate is deemed the 'rear' of the property regardless of location which therefore includes 'side' yards.



So if the side yard is screen from public view by a 6 foot fence, would your association deem it to be in the "rear" of the house?




Nope. They define 'rear of the lot' to mean anything constructed like a pool has to stay behind that 'rear plane of the home'. Regardless if I have a 6 foot privacy fence hiding my entire yard on that side. That is the current interpretation, not sure when it 'started' because I've located a home with a side pool up significantly along their house without a privacy fence that blocks view from the road.

Such is the way it goes with these associations apparently, luck of the draw on who you get making decisions.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


06/18/2021 9:50 AM  
I decided to stay out of HOA's from now on. Too many inmates running the asylums.
BillH10
(Texas)

Posts:783


06/18/2021 10:02 AM  
Max, yes

That which is in front or forward of the gate or fence is the front of the property. A gate could be located on the rear plane of the structure leaving the 'side' yard exposed to public view from the street. The association deems that visible portion to be the front of the property to which the landscaping standards and requirements apply.

As an aside, since our association is required to provide front yard landscaping services (mow, edge, blow, fertilize, mulch, pre and post emergent) those portions of the property forward of gates and fences are deemed 'front yard' in the context of the landscaping maintenance contract, including the exposed 'side yards' on corner lots which had chosen not to enclose the 'side' yard.
JakeW1
(Florida)

Posts:36


06/18/2021 10:03 AM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 06/18/2021 9:50 AM
I decided to stay out of HOA's from now on. Too many inmates running the asylums.




Another interesting thing about my ACC committee, 1 member just started on it 3 months ago, 1 member started during covid, and the other (most vocal and rude) has been on it for at least 2 years I believe.

There is no way they have ruled consistently on projects since this entire community was developed 15-20 years ago, hence why this neighbor of mine has a pool that is 'not up to their current standards'. New projects get to deal with their interpretations of the covenants and guidelines.

AugustinD


Posts:1920


06/18/2021 10:10 AM  
Posted By JakeW1 on 06/18/2021 9:10 AM
What is ironic to me is the original point of my post was about reasonable accommodation because of a disability and that seems to have been swept under the rug in my situation, unless I want to press it legally which will cost me obviously. That is perhaps their strategy and hope.
If I were on this HOA's ACC or Board, then at this point, I would not have rejected the reasonable accommodation argument. But I am not sure I would accept it, either. Some of my thoughts would be as follows:

-- Is conformity a valid legal reason to reject an ACC application? I am going to assume that the HOA's master plan does speak of the desirability of conformity and so in general, enforcement of the covenants regarding ACC standards.

-- What is the source of this dispute?
1. The applicant (JakeW1) wants a standard size pool.
2. The applicant can only fit a standard size pool using the side of his lot.
3. The covenants do not allow pools on the sides.

-- Before the applicant (JakeW1) bought his home, did he know that it would not accommodate a standard size pool in the rear of the lot? By public notice standards, yes.

-- The net says pools can certainly be installed that are, say, 10 feet x 20 feet. Do pool designers say that a smaller size pool could reasonably fit into the rear of the applicant's lot? This question needs to be answered.

-- Does not having a standard size pool discriminate on the basis of disability? Nationwide, if others have a smaller-than-standard-15x30'-pool, and a smaller pool would fit in the rear of the applicant's lot, then I have doubts the HOA is obliged to provide the "accommodation" the applicant requests.

-- If the ACC/Board approved the side pool, they arguably would be doing so not because of the disability, but because the applicant simply desires a larger pool.

-- When the applicant sells the home, is there a problem with a pool on the side approved because the prior owner had a disability, while the new owner has no disability? Maybe, as far as conformity goes.

-- Is too much time going into this decision-making? If I were on the HOA ACC or HOA Board, I think not.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


06/18/2021 10:27 AM  
So, exactly, what defines the rear of a house?
JakeW1
(Florida)

Posts:36


06/18/2021 10:30 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 06/18/2021 10:10 AM
Posted By JakeW1 on 06/18/2021 9:10 AM
What is ironic to me is the original point of my post was about reasonable accommodation because of a disability and that seems to have been swept under the rug in my situation, unless I want to press it legally which will cost me obviously. That is perhaps their strategy and hope.
If I were on this HOA's ACC or Board, then at this point, I would not have rejected the reasonable accommodation argument. But I am not sure I would accept it, either. Some of my thoughts would be as follows:

-- Is conformity a valid legal reason to reject an ACC application? I am going to assume that the HOA's master plan does speak of the desirability of conformity and so in general, enforcement of the covenants regarding ACC standards.

-- What is the source of this dispute?
1. The applicant (JakeW1) wants a standard size pool.
2. The applicant can only fit a standard size pool using the side of his lot.
3. The covenants do not allow pools on the sides.

-- Before the applicant (JakeW1) bought his home, did he know that it would not accommodate a standard size pool in the rear of the lot? By public notice standards, yes.

-- The net says pools can certainly be installed that are, say, 10 feet x 20 feet. Do pool designers say that a smaller size pool could reasonably fit into the rear of the applicant's lot? This question needs to be answered.

-- Does not having a standard size pool discriminate on the basis of disability? Nationwide, if others have a smaller-than-standard-15x30'-pool, and a smaller pool would fit in the rear of the applicant's lot, then I have doubts the HOA is obliged to provide the "accommodation" the applicant requests.

-- If the ACC/Board approved the side pool, they arguably would be doing so not because of the disability, but because the applicant simply desires a larger pool.

-- When the applicant sells the home, is there a problem with a pool on the side approved because the prior owner had a disability, while the new owner has no disability? Maybe, as far as conformity goes.

-- Is too much time going into this decision-making? If I were on the HOA ACC or HOA Board, I think not.





3. The covenants do not allow pools on the sides. (This is not a black and white statement. Rear of the lot is open to interpretation and the ACC is defining it this way CURRENTLY. They may not have always interpreted the language in this manner)

-- The net says pools can certainly be installed that are, say, 10 feet x 20 feet. Do pool designers say that a smaller size pool could reasonably fit into the rear of the applicant's lot? This question needs to be answered. (No, we could not reasonably fit this pool behind the rear plane of our home, I've tried to do this with the setbacks and survey and the pool would not fit a family of 5 people, unless all we are allowed to have is somewhere to stand in water)

-- Does not having a standard size pool discriminate on the basis of disability? Nationwide, if others have a smaller-than-standard-15x30'-pool, and a smaller pool would fit in the rear of the applicant's lot, then I have doubts the HOA is obliged to provide the "accommodation" the applicant requests.
(Why are we looking nationwide? I live in Florida in a specific area with a specific demographic that should be considered, what is standard here is not standard elsewhere - the question is what I am requesting 'reasonable', and to me, I don't see evidence that it is 'unreasonable' especially considering others already have it in my same street corners)

-- If the ACC/Board approved the side pool, they arguably would be doing so not because of the disability, but because the applicant simply desires a larger pool.
(This is their choice. They can make it clear that I am only approved based on accommodation. However, why are other homes having the same layout? Do they also have accommodations?)

-- Before the applicant (JakeW1) bought his home, did he know that it would not accommodate a standard size pool in the rear of the lot? By public notice standards, yes.
(This is definitely not true, how would I know that the ACC interprets the 'rear of the lot' the way they do? Real estate agents and pool companies had already provided estimates for this property in the past, leading us to believe this was possible, not to mention driving the neighborhood you could have located a side pool. Convenant language is not CLEAR in this area and ACC interpretation is not documented.)


AugustinD


Posts:1920


06/18/2021 10:44 AM  
Posted By JakeW1 on 06/18/2021 10:30 AM

3. The covenants do not allow pools on the sides. (This is not a black and white statement. Rear of the lot is open to interpretation and the ACC is defining it this way CURRENTLY. They may not have always interpreted the language in this manner)
So you've written. I am presenting my take, as a hypothetical HOA ACC member or HOA Director.
-- The net says pools can certainly be installed that are, say, 10 feet x 20 feet. Do pool designers say that a smaller size pool could reasonably fit into the rear of the applicant's lot? This question needs to be answered. (No, we could not reasonably fit this pool behind the rear plane of our home, I've tried to do this with the setbacks and survey and the pool would not fit a family of 5 people, unless all we are allowed to have is somewhere to stand in water)
I cannot parse the above. Try this: What is the largest size pool that a pool design and construction company could reasonably install that is behind the rear vertical plane of the building (meaning the house)?

I appreciate that you think that your definition of "in the rear of the lot" is the one a judge would accept. I am not persuaded.

My point is to get you thinking about how big a battle this might be.

I concede that I may not have all the facts pertaining to pool design, your backyard, et cetera. Plus it's hard to predict how a trial court judge would rule on the facts of a case. One judge may decide one way; another, another way. They have enormous discretion on the facts. Appeals courts by law have to defer to what the trial court judge rules are the facts.
JakeW1
(Florida)

Posts:36


06/18/2021 11:58 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 06/18/2021 10:44 AM
Posted By JakeW1 on 06/18/2021 10:30 AM

3. The covenants do not allow pools on the sides. (This is not a black and white statement. Rear of the lot is open to interpretation and the ACC is defining it this way CURRENTLY. They may not have always interpreted the language in this manner)
So you've written. I am presenting my take, as a hypothetical HOA ACC member or HOA Director.
-- The net says pools can certainly be installed that are, say, 10 feet x 20 feet. Do pool designers say that a smaller size pool could reasonably fit into the rear of the applicant's lot? This question needs to be answered. (No, we could not reasonably fit this pool behind the rear plane of our home, I've tried to do this with the setbacks and survey and the pool would not fit a family of 5 people, unless all we are allowed to have is somewhere to stand in water)
I cannot parse the above. Try this: What is the largest size pool that a pool design and construction company could reasonably install that is behind the rear vertical plane of the building (meaning the house)?

I appreciate that you think that your definition of "in the rear of the lot" is the one a judge would accept. I am not persuaded.

My point is to get you thinking about how big a battle this might be.

I concede that I may not have all the facts pertaining to pool design, your backyard, et cetera. Plus it's hard to predict how a trial court judge would rule on the facts of a case. One judge may decide one way; another, another way. They have enormous discretion on the facts. Appeals courts by law have to defer to what the trial court judge rules are the facts.




What is the largest size pool that a pool design and construction company could reasonably install that is behind the rear vertical plane of the building (meaning the house)?
Based on our lot and setback restrictions, construction restrictions, at best I can put a blow up pool from Amazon. Building anything within that small of a window of space would be illogical, you're looking more at a line of water than one person can try to do a lap in, than a pool.
JakeW1
(Florida)

Posts:36


06/18/2021 12:00 PM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 06/18/2021 10:27 AM
So, exactly, what defines the rear of a house?




Rear of a house is different than rear of the lot and rear plane of the house. Each have a different opinion I assume.
AugustinD


Posts:1920


06/18/2021 12:13 PM  
Posted By JakeW1 on 06/18/2021 11:58 AM
Based on our lot and setback restrictions, construction restrictions, at best I can put a blow up pool from Amazon. Building anything within that small of a window of space would be illogical, you're looking more at a line of water than one person can try to do a lap in, than a pool.
If the evidence you presented to the ACC supports the above, then I would vote to approve the pool (installed largely on the side of the home) as a "reasonable accommodation" to a disability. I would argue that (1) your rights as a disabled person to enjoy a home in the same way a non-disabled person does are important under the FHA et cetera; and (2) your proposed side pool (with the neighbor's side pool) does yield a lack-of-conformity that is somewhat detrimental to the overall looks of the HOA, and goes against the HOA Master Plan, but I opine that the need to accommodate a disabled person here trumps this lack of conformity.

If an owner in your HOA suddenly became wheelchair bound, then I would vote to approve a ramp, despite the lack of conformity. Granted I would require removal of the ramp upon sale of the home.

Hopefully the ACC's decision-making is now focused only on resolving differences concerning screens.

Like much of the U. S., it is very hot where I am. Florida of course has always boiled in the summer. Good luck with the pool.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


06/18/2021 12:14 PM  
Posted By JakeW1 on 06/18/2021 12:00 PM
Posted By MaxB4 on 06/18/2021 10:27 AM
So, exactly, what defines the rear of a house?




Rear of a house is different than rear of the lot and rear plane of the house. Each have a different opinion I assume.



Actually I do know what the rear of a lot means. Not sure others here know, and for sure, your Board doesn't.
JakeW1
(Florida)

Posts:36


06/18/2021 12:19 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 06/18/2021 12:13 PM
Posted By JakeW1 on 06/18/2021 11:58 AM
Based on our lot and setback restrictions, construction restrictions, at best I can put a blow up pool from Amazon. Building anything within that small of a window of space would be illogical, you're looking more at a line of water than one person can try to do a lap in, than a pool.
If the evidence you presented to the ACC supports the above, then I would vote to approve the pool (installed largely on the side of the home) as a "reasonable accommodation" to a disability. I would argue that (1) your rights as a disabled person to enjoy a home in the same way a non-disabled person does are important under the FHA et cetera; and (2) your proposed side pool (with the neighbor's side pool) does yield a lack-of-conformity that is somewhat detrimental to the overall looks of the HOA, and goes against the HOA Master Plan, but I opine that the need to accommodate a disabled person here trumps this lack of conformity.

If an owner in your HOA suddenly became wheelchair bound, then I would vote to approve a ramp, despite the lack of conformity. Granted I would require removal of the ramp upon sale of the home.

Hopefully the ACC's decision-making is now focused only on resolving differences concerning screens.

Like much of the U. S., it is very hot where I am. Florida of course has always boiled in the summer. Good luck with the pool.




I appreciate your comments and challenge questions. Great things to consider as I try to navigate these muddy waters. Hopefully this can be resolved with the ACC without requiring full legal action towards FHA and attorneys.
JakeW1
(Florida)

Posts:36


06/18/2021 12:20 PM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 06/18/2021 12:14 PM
Posted By JakeW1 on 06/18/2021 12:00 PM
Posted By MaxB4 on 06/18/2021 10:27 AM
So, exactly, what defines the rear of a house?




Rear of a house is different than rear of the lot and rear plane of the house. Each have a different opinion I assume.



Actually I do know what the rear of a lot means. Not sure others here know, and for sure, your Board doesn't.




Well they have certainly taken a specific interpretation and are sticking to it as long as they can and allowing themselves wiggle room for when people bring up exceptions.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11665


06/18/2021 12:59 PM  
Jake

BOD's and ACC's change so my advice at this time is work with them to at least get permission for a pool. The rest (screening, etc.) can be worked on/added at a later time.

Also the ACC reports to the BOD so the BOD is the final say. Be nice to the BOD.
JakeW1
(Florida)

Posts:36


06/18/2021 1:30 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/18/2021 12:59 PM
Jake

BOD's and ACC's change so my advice at this time is work with them to at least get permission for a pool. The rest (screening, etc.) can be worked on/added at a later time.

Also the ACC reports to the BOD so the BOD is the final say. Be nice to the BOD.




Agreed. I am trying to submit without the screen (supposedly they may approve it that way), we'll see in a few weeks if that holds true. I really hope some folks on the ACC decide to move on soon
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Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Reasonable Accommodation Pool - Anxiety



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