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Subject: Board members trespassing
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DakotaS
(Missouri)

Posts:41


06/12/2021 3:50 PM  
So my wife and I are on the board of our HOA. However they want us off because we are actually following the cc&r they are the definition of rogue board members. Now they have been randomly when I'm not home snooping on my property. I have this all on camera. Today I called the sheriff and he said it is trespassing and to tell them if they do it again I'll press charges. When I told them what the sheriff told me to say they said it's not trespassing because being a board member allows them the right to do so. The restrictions say in emergencies they can as well as to check on a reported rules violation. But they were just randomly looking around and have done so 4 different times now. What's your thoughts on this?
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:1466


06/12/2021 4:01 PM  
Your Sheriff is wrong. Read your CC&R's There is some verbiage in the covenants that allow an easement for the HOA to come on your property for the purpose of inspections.


Now if you feel your HOA is being bothersome or bullying, you need to write a formal letter to your HOA and request that you be notified ahead of time and insist that you be present when they come out for routine inspections. Send your letter USPS certified mail with return receipt.

DakotaS
(Missouri)

Posts:41


06/12/2021 5:10 PM  
They have the right to come on in the event of an emergency or to check on a reported violation. They aren't doing either. They randomly come over and walk around my wrap around porch and snoop around. They have done this a few times in the last few weeks. It's definitely excessive at this point. They have a Po. Box they rarely check I could send a letter there other than that I'd have to send it to the chair person's house
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8729


06/12/2021 5:22 PM  
I'm confused, your last post said there'd been no election. So how did you two get on the Board???

Your documents are like ours even tho' we're condos. The Board has no access to our units without an emergency or to confirm suspected violations. Otherwise they must give 48 hours written notice and it needs to be a good reason like maintenance to protect other condos or the common areas.

What do you think you can do about this? I guess make a formal complaint to the police? But, then,what?

Do notify your Bd. prez in writing, return receipt requested that the trespassing must stop. But how will you accomplish anything with these other directors all opposed to you?

AugustinD


Posts:1920


06/12/2021 5:28 PM  
Posted By LetA on 06/12/2021 4:01 PM
Your Sheriff is wrong.
I wouldn't say that.
DakotaS
(Missouri)

Posts:41


06/12/2021 5:28 PM  
So when we joined we just went to a board meeting and they said sure you can come on. We didn't know at the time that wasnt how they're supposed to do it. Says it our restrictions they're supposed to only do elections at the annual meeting and the community is supposed to be present. We were added at a closed door meeting. After joining and going to the county and getting the actual restrictions and amendments we realize they're doing a ton of things wrong and they're breaking all sorts of rules. One of them was how they do elections you're supposed to be elected to a 3-year term but some of these people have been on for 20 plus years with no evidence of an election. My wife and I plan on resigning now that we know we weren't properly elected. That being said I sent them a message in a group text asking the two that keep doing so to please stop trespassing and I told them what the sheriff said. Their response was they could do what they want because the bylaws give them the right to do so. Our restrictions or as our community calls them bylaws do not mention a time frame given but do say they only can come on a homeowner's property in the event of an emergency or a reported rules violation. They take this to mean that they can just walk on anyone's property anytime they want and check for violations and like I said they've walked on my property a couple of times now unannounced and unwelcome.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8729


06/12/2021 7:26 PM  
From what you wrote, Dakota, they are trespassing.
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:1466


06/12/2021 7:34 PM  
Posted By DakotaS on 06/12/2021 5:28 PM
So when we joined we just went to a board meeting and they said sure you can come on. We didn't know at the time that wasnt how they're supposed to do it. Says it our restrictions they're supposed to only do elections at the annual meeting and the community is supposed to be present. We were added at a closed door meeting. After joining and going to the county and getting the actual restrictions and amendments we realize they're doing a ton of things wrong and they're breaking all sorts of rules. One of them was how they do elections you're supposed to be elected to a 3-year term but some of these people have been on for 20 plus years with no evidence of an election. My wife and I plan on resigning now that we know we weren't properly elected. That being said I sent them a message in a group text asking the two that keep doing so to please stop trespassing and I told them what the sheriff said. Their response was they could do what they want because the bylaws give them the right to do so. Our restrictions or as our community calls them bylaws do not mention a time frame given but do say they only can come on a homeowner's property in the event of an emergency or a reported rules violation. They take this to mean that they can just walk on anyone's property anytime they want and check for violations and like I said they've walked on my property a couple of times now unannounced and unwelcome.






Your second and third post are more clearer. Yes It appears they are trespassing, and some would interpret that as harassment and intimidation. Your third post eludes to you being appointed to a board vacancy, perfectly legal, legit and on the up and up.

Yes you can resign. How many board members do you have? and will your resignation leave a void at board members that require a quorum?
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:1466


06/12/2021 7:36 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 06/12/2021 7:26 PM
From what you wrote, Dakota, they are trespassing.





Sounds like they live in Stepford.
DakotaS
(Missouri)

Posts:41


06/12/2021 8:26 PM  
I voted in by the board members in a closed meeting where the community wasn't allowed. Our cc&r's state that isn't allowed. All meetings should be open to the community. Also it says if a board member resigns or dies ect they can appoint a person already on the board to do that members job until an annual meeting can be held to actually vote a new person in. So I take that to mean how they put us on wasn't on the up and up. They do not have elections none of them currently serving were voted in within the last 3 years like our cc&r's say it should be done. So I'm torn. I'm kind of thinking that they are an illegitimate board of trustees since they weren't elected properly. I could be wrong but seems to me if you were voted in properly then every single thing you do should be illegitimate as well.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8729


06/12/2021 9:45 PM  
This sounds like such a mess, Dakota, that you & your wife need to get several owners who share your concerns together to get the advice of a o contract or HOA lawyer.

It's almost impossible to fight this alone.
JasonE1
(North Carolina)

Posts:8


06/12/2021 11:01 PM  
Posted By LetA on 06/12/2021 4:01 PM
Your Sheriff is wrong. Read your CC&R's There is some verbiage in the covenants that allow an easement for the HOA to come on your property for the purpose of inspections.







That's a poor assumption. Some CC&Rs don't allow inspections via trespass. Mine don't, only what they can see from the street.
DakotaS
(Missouri)

Posts:41


06/13/2021 12:28 AM  
So I actually read read the entire cc&rs tonight it says absolutely nothing about inspections or coming on a home owners property ect. However they created a summary. The summary they send out has several things in it that go against the restrictions and amendments. Things that were never voted on ect. Just random added restrictions that do not appear to be legal. In that they have it in there that they can walk on any property and it's not trespassing. But this isn't in the amendments or the restrictions anywhere. The summary is literally 5 pages of stuff and about half of it is stuff that goes against the cc&r's. I'm not a legal scholar but I'd assume if it's not in the cc&r's and it isn't filed with the county that it is not enforceable. Am I off base?
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:1466


06/13/2021 7:59 AM  
Posted By DakotaS on 06/12/2021 8:26 PM
I voted in by the board members in a closed meeting where the community wasn't allowed. Our cc&r's state that isn't allowed. All meetings should be open to the community. Also it says if a board member resigns or dies ect they can appoint a person already on the board to do that members job until an annual meeting can be held to actually vote a new person in. So I take that to mean how they put us on wasn't on the up and up. They do not have elections none of them currently serving were voted in within the last 3 years like our cc&r's say it should be done. So I'm torn. I'm kind of thinking that they are an illegitimate board of trustees since they weren't elected properly. I could be wrong but seems to me if you were voted in properly then every single thing you do should be illegitimate as well.





Were nomination forms sent out to all the owners to nominate board of directors?? If no new nomination forms are received, the current board is automatically voted back in via acclimation. Again perfectly legal.

You mention closed door sessions, is that the executive portion of the meeting?? Executive sessions are for directors and PM only. Again perfectly legal.
DakotaS
(Missouri)

Posts:41


06/13/2021 8:32 AM  
No forms were sent out and not wasn't done at the private portion of a meeting. The cc&r's state a term is three years and we vote at the annual meeting and most votes by the community is who wins. Doesn't say anything about sending out a nomination form or any of that. Our community has never done that.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11665


06/13/2021 10:49 AM  
Dakota

Typically a BOD and the BOD alone can appoint people to fill BOD Vacancies thus you may have been properly appointed to the BOD. The question is the case of an appointment is how long is the appointment for? Until the next election or until the term you are filling ends?

If there is not a Quorum at the Annual Meting, no business can be done, including an election, and the existing BOD stays in place. This is quite common.

Typically a BOD/ARC does have the right to inspect property for violations. Usually done without entering on the property but entering the property, including inside your unit, might well be allowed by your docs.
AugustinD


Posts:1920


06/13/2021 11:13 AM  
Two prior threads are linked below. Are there signs that the OP is taking constructive steps, or even understands the suggestions being made? I am not sure.

https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/304271/view/topic/Default.aspx

https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/view/topic/postid/304787/forumid/1/tpage/1/Default.aspx
DakotaS
(Missouri)

Posts:41


06/13/2021 1:00 PM  
Nothing in our documents say that they can walk on anyone property or anything of the sort.
We do not have a board of directors. Our restrictions says the trustees can appoint a person from the current trustees to handle the member who is removed business until the next annual meeting at which time they are supposed to hold an election. There is nothing in the restrictions anywhere that talk about a quaru.
DakotaS
(Missouri)

Posts:41


06/13/2021 1:00 PM  
Quorum. Not a single word mentioned about that anywhere.
PatJ1
(North Carolina)

Posts:295


06/13/2021 3:15 PM  
Posted By DakotaS on 06/13/2021 1:00 PM
Quorum. Not a single word mentioned about that anywhere.




In North Carolina, Board members are elected by a membership quorum at the annual meeting. If a vacancy occurs during the year, the Board can appoint a Board member by a vote of a Board quorum.

Board members are volunteers. Many have no idea what they're doing. Educate them. Don't beat them up.
AugustinD


Posts:1920


06/13/2021 3:38 PM  
Posted By DakotaS on 06/13/2021 1:00 PM
Quorum. Not a single word mentioned about that anywhere.
For the archives, because the signs are strong the OP is not serious about getting answers: The Missouri Nonprofit Corporation Act addresses quorum. See:

https://law.justia.com/codes/missouri/2019/title-xxiii/chapter-355/section-355-401/

https://law.justia.com/codes/missouri/2019/title-xxiii/chapter-355/section-355-281/
BenA2
(Texas)

Posts:1108


06/13/2021 4:02 PM  
Posted By LetA on 06/12/2021 4:01 PM
Your Sheriff is wrong. Read your CC&R's There is some verbiage in the covenants that allow an easement for the HOA to come on your property for the purpose of inspections.


Now if you feel your HOA is being bothersome or bullying, you need to write a formal letter to your HOA and request that you be notified ahead of time and insist that you be present when they come out for routine inspections. Send your letter USPS certified mail with return receipt.




I would not be so quick to assume that any verbiage in the CC&Rs (if it exists) supersedes state law. I assume the argument would be that the CC&Rs constitute permission to enter the property but I'm quite certain not all state courts would agree.
SheilaJ1


Posts:0


10/09/2021 6:18 AM  
Please post the CC&R’s about violations and inspections.

I see no trespassing here. Sheriff is right because op can’t prove they’re not doing inspections. But to be certain please post some of the CC&R’s wording.
SheilaJ1


Posts:0


10/09/2021 6:19 AM  
Sorry old thread, not sure how it got to the top, ignore.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:2599


10/09/2021 6:59 AM  
I noticed that a whole bunch of old threads got activated for some reason - as far as I know, just reading them shouldn't do that.
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17852


10/09/2021 8:50 AM  
Posted By DakotaS on 06/12/2021 3:50 PM

What's your thoughts on this?




We had a similar situation. In that situation, a member of a committee entered the enclosed rear yard to do an inspection. The member complained to the board, the board sought legal advice.

The legal advice was simple and straight forward. Do not enter the property without a court order except for emergencies or face the possibility of trespassing charges. They advised us to do any and all inspections from common area.


My advice to you, tell the board that unless they want to test that theory in a court of law to stay off of your property or you will file trespassing charges.
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17852


10/09/2021 8:51 AM  
Yep, I should have checked the date.

Old thread reactivated by some poster.
As Max indicated on another thread, it appears that that posters post was removed.
SheilaJ1


Posts:0


10/09/2021 9:39 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 10/09/2021 8:50 AM
Posted By DakotaS on 06/12/2021 3:50 PM

What's your thoughts on this?




We had a similar situation. In that situation, a member of a committee entered the enclosed rear yard to do an inspection. The member complained to the board, the board sought legal advice.

The legal advice was simple and straight forward. Do not enter the property without a court order except for emergencies or face the possibility of trespassing charges. They advised us to do any and all inspections from common area.


My advice to you, tell the board that unless they want to test that theory in a court of law to stay off of your property or you will file trespassing charges.


This is not quite correct, individuals don’t file trespassing charges, the state and county do that. If the Posters facts are correct and the police was called and the police didn’t charge the board members then no law was broken. Sorry your legal advice was wrong unless the CC&R’s specifically mention board members or ARC members cannot go into owner property which most don’t.

Please stop.
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17852


10/09/2021 5:03 PM  
Shelia,

Individuals file (some might simply say make) a complaint with the police.
The police investigate and take what action they feel is appropriate.

The legal advice was correct for my Association.

The fact that the legal advice may be incorrect for your association I certainly won't contest.

I was unaware that you had a copy of the OPs governing documents to make the determination that the advice I shared was or was not correct for their association.

My personal advice to the OP (which seems to be the issue you have) appears to be in line with the advice the police shared with the OP.

As far as I am aware, in any trespassing issue, warnings are to be given before police take action. Warnings can be signage, verbal or written.


Another example, in my association, we hold meetings in a directors home. If someone becomes unruly and continues to be unruly after warnings, the board suspends the meeting and the owner of the property asks the individual to leave. If they refuse, the owner of the property contacts the police concerning a trespasser. This process is what our local police advised us to follow.






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