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Subject: How to Get the Police to Issue Speeding Tickets in our Gated Community
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MichelleK8
(California)

Posts:1


05/25/2021 6:00 PM  
I live in a beautiful, gated community in Northern California, where I am an HOA board member. During the past 6 months, we have seen a severe uptick in the amount of speeding within our community, and I am wondering how to go about getting our police department into our community to possibly take a meeting our HOA board, and possibly discuss having a regular presence to help monitor and deter the speeders here, and issue tickets. I believe this would be of great benefit, and I've got the other board members on board with me as well. I know that the police do not patrol private roads and that is where I'm a little "foggy" with my knowledge in terms of how to go about getting the PD involved at our location.

If any of you fellow HOA-ers out there have had any experience, and hopefully a positive one at that, I'd be most grateful for any advice you may be able to provide.

Thanks!
AugustinD


Posts:1937


05/25/2021 6:31 PM  
This topic has come up here in the past. It's also discussed at a lot of hoa sites.

The police won't enforce a private community's covenant-imposed speed limits.

Private security guards might be able to enforce speed limits. Here's a bit on this: https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Enforcing-Vehicle-Codes . Your HOA would have to offer a hearing to anyone accused of speeding.

Speed bumps or similar might be the best solution.

Others will likely chime in with their specific experiences. Please check back.
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17856


05/25/2021 6:56 PM  
Go talk to the local police department.

Typically, the board needs to enter into a written agreement to allow the police to enter the property without cause to look at these issues.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1614


05/25/2021 8:41 PM  
From experience in California, it is the court system, not the police department that is the problem. Courts in the Golden State won't enforce violations on privately owned streets.
ND
(PA)

Posts:640


05/26/2021 4:56 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 05/25/2021 6:56 PM
Go talk to the local police department.

Typically, the board needs to enter into a written agreement to allow the police to enter the property without cause to look at these issues.



Agree . . . simply take your scenario and questions to your local police department. They will quickly let you know if they can assist, and if so, how to go about making it happen.
AugustinD


Posts:1937


05/26/2021 5:52 AM  
California courts might very well enforce a California HOA's covenants with regard to violations of traffic covenants. See https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Traffic-Violations
AugustinD


Posts:1937


05/26/2021 6:09 AM  
From a California attorney, as posted at https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/can-a-hoa-issue-a-speeding-ticket-on-one-of-their--489357 :

"In California, an HOA can issue speeding tickets and fine for speeding and/or reckless driving. HOAs have the authority to make and enforce rules for common area use. If the HOA receives information about speeding or other violations, the HOA should investigate and determine whether a violation occurred.

Before the HOA can impose penalties, the accused is entitled to "due process", which means notice and a hearing where the owner can offer his/her version of the events. Since homeowners are entitled to challenge information about the alleged violation, the HOA board cannot rely on anonymous reports."

-- Attorney [ redacted ], of the California bar, 30 reviews, five out of five stars


I do not see how police would have the authority to ticket someone for a violation of an HOA covenant. It's not what the taxpayer pays California police to do. In California traffic court, it's the defendant vs. the police. The judge, police and defendant are not going to have a debate about whether the HOA offered the required due process; whether the speed the HOA set was reasonable; and so on.
MarkS39
(Florida)

Posts:6


05/26/2021 6:47 AM  
We just went through this. Although not in CA, I met with the local county commissioner. His advice was to seek out traffic calming measures (speed bumps/humps etc) VS voting on and implementing an agreement between LE & neighborhood. All neighborhood speed limit signs along with all written/referenced speed limits (within by-laws etc) would need to be brought to State/County limits & placed in the written contract with local Sheriff or PD prior to their accepts. In other words, it is against the law for LE to enforce private community speed limits which for the most part are way less than county & state Road limits. Ours are 5-10mph in our community, minimum for residential per State law is 25 mph. Doesn’t make any sense. Good luck
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1614


05/26/2021 7:32 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 05/26/2021 5:52 AM
California courts might very well enforce a California HOA's covenants with regard to violations of traffic covenants. See https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Traffic-Violations



Actually our association at the time tried to work with LAPD with enforcing traffic laws along a private street used by all local residents, not just those of the HOA. On June 25, 2014 two kids were killed on that road, one decapitated, while driving 90 MPH and blowing through stop signs. Our legal counsel even tried to get the courts to change their minds of policing enforcing traffic laws. So we took the advice of LAPD and put up traffic calming measures and the following year a bicyclist was injured when they failed to stop at a stop sign and hit a speed hump. Associatiion was hit with a 20 million lawsuit.

Legal counsel was the same firm as Augie's citation. Gotta give you the Google Wiz Kid Award.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1614


05/26/2021 7:32 AM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 05/26/2021 7:32 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 05/26/2021 5:52 AM
California courts might very well enforce a California HOA's covenants with regard to violations of traffic covenants. See https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Traffic-Violations



Actually our association at the time tried to work with LAPD with enforcing traffic laws along a private street used by all local residents, not just those of the HOA. On June 25, 2014 two kids were killed on that road, one decapitated, while driving 90 MPH and blowing through stop signs. Our legal counsel even tried to get the courts to change their minds of policing enforcing traffic laws. So we took the advice of LAPD and put up traffic calming measures and the following year a bicyclist was injured when they failed to stop at a stop sign and hit a speed hump. Associatiion was hit with a 20 million lawsuit.

Legal counsel was the same firm as Augie's citation. Gotta give you the Google Wiz Kid Award.



Here is a link to the accident, https://www.dailynews.com/2014/06/25/2-killed-2-injured-in-sylmar-pickup-truck-rollover-accident/

I happen to be in the picture also.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1614


05/26/2021 7:57 AM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 05/26/2021 7:32 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 05/26/2021 5:52 AM
California courts might very well enforce a California HOA's covenants with regard to violations of traffic covenants. See https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Traffic-Violations



Actually our association at the time tried to work with LAPD with enforcing traffic laws along a private street used by all local residents, not just those of the HOA. On June 25, 2014 two kids were killed on that road, one decapitated, while driving 90 MPH and blowing through stop signs. Our legal counsel even tried to get the courts to change their minds of policing enforcing traffic laws. So we took the advice of LAPD and put up traffic calming measures and the following year a bicyclist was injured when they failed to stop at a stop sign and hit a speed hump. Associatiion was hit with a 20 million lawsuit.

Legal counsel was the same firm as Augie's citation. Gotta give you the Google Wiz Kid Award.



Correction: date was Tuesday night, June 24, 2014.
AugustinD


Posts:1937


05/26/2021 8:07 AM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 05/26/2021 7:32 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 05/26/2021 5:52 AM
California courts might very well enforce a California HOA's covenants with regard to violations of traffic covenants. See https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Traffic-Violations



Actually our association at the time tried to work with LAPD with enforcing traffic laws along a private street used by all local residents, not just those of the HOA. On June 25, 2014 two kids were killed on that road, one decapitated, while driving 90 MPH and blowing through stop signs. Our legal counsel even tried to get the courts to change their minds of policing enforcing traffic laws. So we took the advice of LAPD and put up traffic calming measures and the following year a bicyclist was injured when they failed to stop at a stop sign and hit a speed hump. Associatiion was hit with a 20 million lawsuit.
-- If anything, what you posted supports my contention that the police do not want to be involved in speed enforcement on private roads.

-- I do see some sites talking about the possibility of an agreement with police to either be a presence in HOAs with private roads or possibly do some enforcement.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1614


05/26/2021 8:12 AM  
Cops had agreed to enforce traffic violations there, it was the courts that threw the tickets. This was a screw up by the City of Los Angeles. They should never have allowed this to be a private street, as it wasn't what the developer wanted either.

It just showed the ineptness of city government.
AugustinD


Posts:1937


05/26/2021 8:25 AM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 05/26/2021 8:12 AM
Cops had agreed to enforce traffic violations there, it was the courts that threw the tickets.
Again, this supports my contention that the police do not have the authority to enforce a HOA's covenants. But California courts might very well support a California HOA's civil court claim that an HOA/COA member violated a covenant (or rule based on the covenant) regarding speed limits.

With regard to safety concerns, I agree the first concern is safety. Maybe municipalities are screwing up by not enforcing speed limits set by a HOA/COA's covenants/rules. Maybe HOAs are screwing up. Maybe there is no perfect solution, and lawsuits arise because the HOA has insurance and of course the victims' attorneys will go after the deep pockets of an insurer. It's often the price of doing business.

At the same time: This forum has much discussion of HOAs that know of an obvious safety problem on common areas; do nothing about it; and end up paying a lot of money or seeing their insurer pay a lot of money, with an increase in premiums.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1614


05/26/2021 8:29 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 05/26/2021 8:25 AM
Posted By MaxB4 on 05/26/2021 8:12 AM
Cops had agreed to enforce traffic violations there, it was the courts that threw the tickets.[/quote But California courts might very well support a California HOA's civil court claim that an HOA/COA member violated a covenant (or rule based on the covenant) regarding speed limits.





That makes a lot of sense. I feel safer having Mickey Mouse write a ticket then local law enforcement.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11667


05/26/2021 9:25 AM  
I seem to recall a case where an off duty police officer was stopped in an HOA by the associations private traffic control for speeding. The police officer arrested the private traffic control person and charged him with impersonating a police officer. Anyone recall this?
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1614


05/26/2021 9:44 AM  
If you are wearing the uniform of a PRIVATE security company, how does that now translate into impersonating a police officer?
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:1469


05/26/2021 11:07 AM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 05/26/2021 9:44 AM
If you are wearing the uniform of a PRIVATE security company, how does that now translate into impersonating a police officer?





Either the cop had a bug up their nose or the person they arrested did not have the proper credentials to work as a security officer.
MichaelS56
(Minnesota)

Posts:306


05/27/2021 10:34 AM  
What role does the Board or the Management company play in the enforcement of the speeding violations? It is my understanding that the Board is to enforce the Association rules.
PaulL12
(California)

Posts:79


06/06/2021 6:36 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 05/26/2021 6:09 AM
From a California attorney, as posted at https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/can-a-hoa-issue-a-speeding-ticket-on-one-of-their--489357 :

"In California, an HOA can issue speeding tickets and fine for speeding and/or reckless driving. HOAs have the authority to make and enforce rules for common area use. If the HOA receives information about speeding or other violations, the HOA should investigate and determine whether a violation occurred.

Before the HOA can impose penalties, the accused is entitled to "due process", which means notice and a hearing where the owner can offer his/her version of the events. Since homeowners are entitled to challenge information about the alleged violation, the HOA board cannot rely on anonymous reports."

-- Attorney [ redacted ], of the California bar, 30 reviews, five out of five stars


I do not see how police would have the authority to ticket someone for a violation of an HOA covenant. It's not what the taxpayer pays California police to do. In California traffic court, it's the defendant vs. the police. The judge, police and defendant are not going to have a debate about whether the HOA offered the required due process; whether the speed the HOA set was reasonable; and so on.



Augustin - If a homeowner is entitled to due process for a speeding ticket or fine, then wouldn't they be entitled to any detrimental action taken against them for a parking violation?
PaulL12
(California)

Posts:79


06/06/2021 6:39 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 05/26/2021 6:09 AM
From a California attorney, as posted at https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/can-a-hoa-issue-a-speeding-ticket-on-one-of-their--489357 :

"In California, an HOA can issue speeding tickets and fine for speeding and/or reckless driving. HOAs have the authority to make and enforce rules for common area use. If the HOA receives information about speeding or other violations, the HOA should investigate and determine whether a violation occurred.

Before the HOA can impose penalties, the accused is entitled to "due process", which means notice and a hearing where the owner can offer his/her version of the events. Since homeowners are entitled to challenge information about the alleged violation, the HOA board cannot rely on anonymous reports."

-- Attorney [ redacted ], of the California bar, 30 reviews, five out of five stars


I do not see how police would have the authority to ticket someone for a violation of an HOA covenant. It's not what the taxpayer pays California police to do. In California traffic court, it's the defendant vs. the police. The judge, police and defendant are not going to have a debate about whether the HOA offered the required due process; whether the speed the HOA set was reasonable; and so on.



Augustin - Sorry. Did not proof read and HOA talk doesn't permit edits after user submits :-(

If a homeowner is entitled to due process and a hearing for a speeding ticket or fine, then wouldn't they be entitled to due process and a hearing for any detrimental action taken against them for a parking violation?
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1614


06/06/2021 6:51 PM  
Posted By PaulL12 on 06/06/2021 6:39 PM
Posted By AugustinD on 05/26/2021 6:09 AM
From a California attorney, as posted at https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/can-a-hoa-issue-a-speeding-ticket-on-one-of-their--489357 :

"In California, an HOA can issue speeding tickets and fine for speeding and/or reckless driving. HOAs have the authority to make and enforce rules for common area use. If the HOA receives information about speeding or other violations, the HOA should investigate and determine whether a violation occurred.

Before the HOA can impose penalties, the accused is entitled to "due process", which means notice and a hearing where the owner can offer his/her version of the events. Since homeowners are entitled to challenge information about the alleged violation, the HOA board cannot rely on anonymous reports."

-- Attorney [ redacted ], of the California bar, 30 reviews, five out of five stars


I do not see how police would have the authority to ticket someone for a violation of an HOA covenant. It's not what the taxpayer pays California police to do. In California traffic court, it's the defendant vs. the police. The judge, police and defendant are not going to have a debate about whether the HOA offered the required due process; whether the speed the HOA set was reasonable; and so on.



Augustin - Sorry. Did not proof read and HOA talk doesn't permit edits after user submits :-(

If a homeowner is entitled to due process and a hearing for a speeding ticket or fine, then wouldn't they be entitled to due process and a hearing for any detrimental action taken against them for a parking violation?



IF, and that is a big IF, a police officer wrote a ticket to someone within a HOA, then due process would be in front of a Superior Court judge if they so choose. The HOA, in that casewould have no jurisdiction or authority, unless possibility if the HOA had some type of working agreement with the police force in question.
AugustinD


Posts:1937


06/06/2021 10:04 PM  
Posted By PaulL12 on 06/06/2021 6:39 PM
If a homeowner is entitled to due process and a hearing for a speeding ticket or fine, then wouldn't they be entitled to due process and a hearing for any detrimental action taken against them for a parking violation?
I always liked Janet Reno's line, "I don't do hypotheticals." Please elaborate on whatever real-life situation is happening involving a parking violation. Who, what, where (especially which state), when, why, how, please, quote the relevant covenants et cetera, to the best of your ability.
PaulL12
(California)

Posts:79


06/06/2021 11:14 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 06/06/2021 10:04 PM
Posted By PaulL12 on 06/06/2021 6:39 PM
If a homeowner is entitled to due process and a hearing for a speeding ticket or fine, then wouldn't they be entitled to due process and a hearing for any detrimental action taken against them for a parking violation?
I always liked Janet Reno's line, "I don't do hypotheticals." Please elaborate on whatever real-life situation is happening involving a parking violation. Who, what, where (especially which state), when, why, how, please, quote the relevant covenants et cetera, to the best of your ability.



Fair enough. I had a guest of my tenant park their vehicle in the visitor parking and had them display the required visitor tag. The security company proceeded to vandalize their vehicle by placing a paper based "violation" sticker on their vehicle which required a detail shop to remove. Neither myself, my tenant (who the owner of the vehicle was a guest of) or the vehicle owner was given any due process or the opportunity for a hearing before detrimental action was taken against the vehicle owner.
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:1469


06/07/2021 6:43 AM  
Posted By PaulL12 on 06/06/2021 11:14 PM
Posted By AugustinD on 06/06/2021 10:04 PM
Posted By PaulL12 on 06/06/2021 6:39 PM
If a homeowner is entitled to due process and a hearing for a speeding ticket or fine, then wouldn't they be entitled to due process and a hearing for any detrimental action taken against them for a parking violation?
I always liked Janet Reno's line, "I don't do hypotheticals." Please elaborate on whatever real-life situation is happening involving a parking violation. Who, what, where (especially which state), when, why, how, please, quote the relevant covenants et cetera, to the best of your ability.



Fair enough. I had a guest of my tenant park their vehicle in the visitor parking and had them display the required visitor tag. The security company proceeded to vandalize their vehicle by placing a paper based "violation" sticker on their vehicle which required a detail shop to remove. Neither myself, my tenant (who the owner of the vehicle was a guest of) or the vehicle owner was given any due process or the opportunity for a hearing before detrimental action was taken against the vehicle owner.






As far as I understand it, the homeowner can request a hearing. I don't know if that will change the fact that someone did indeed violate the parking rules. At my job, I write between 3-12 parking citations at one very posh property alone. The parking citation my company uses is an app based log recorder where we take 3 pictures. One of the rear plate, side view including the house where the car is parked and a picture of the sheet of paper with the courtesy letter advising the parking rules to the community.

I find it laughable when people make statement that security vandalized a car by putting a paper sticker. Was it a piece of paper or a sticker. Was it security that placed the sticker on the window? where I live and the properties I patrol, the towing companies are the ones that place the stickers on cars. Yes, some of those stickers need a little elbow grease and some goof off to remove the remnants of the sticker. My advice is to not park illegally and you won't get cited.
AugustinD


Posts:1937


06/07/2021 7:06 AM  
Posted By PaulL12 on 06/06/2021 11:14 PM
I had a guest of my tenant park their vehicle in the visitor parking and had them display the required visitor tag. The security company proceeded to vandalize their vehicle by placing a paper based "violation" sticker on their vehicle which required a detail shop to remove. Neither myself, my tenant (who the owner of the vehicle was a guest of) or the vehicle owner was given any due process or the opportunity for a hearing before detrimental action was taken against the vehicle owner.
-- How much did you or the vehicle owner pay to repair the damage?

-- I have referred you to the California statute-required IDR process in November, 2020, per https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/293746/view/topic/Default.aspx . I consider the IDR process to be your due process. I referred you to the web site that explains how to proceed. Said instructions include ultimately going to court. This is all I have, when it comes to due process.

-- I think you want me to say that the COA/HOA cannot tow the vehicle without first doing xyz. I'd say it depends on what the governing documents say, from covenants to reasonable rules and regulations. Either way, you still get due process through IDR and so on.

-- I think you have brought this up a few times now in different threads. I get it: It's bugging you a great deal. Lots would feel similarly. I know I would before I understood COAs/HOAs better. With an entity with more money and power than one has, one has to weigh whether to get a thick skin or whether to pursue IDR and the subsequent statute steps. Most people only learn the latter through the experience of giving up a meaningful part of one's life.

-- When it comes to disputes with a COA/HOA, "winnable" is a loaded term. You could "prevail" with a ruling from the Board or maybe ultimately a judge in your favor. But possibly at considerable cost, from inviting retaliation from an entity much more powerful than you to having to go through a year or more of court proceedings, with a judge who is almost guaranteed to be unhappy with all sides here.
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