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Subject: Age old Question
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Author Messages
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:1466


05/21/2021 10:56 AM  

I hit the search function to read old post, combine that with Googling ESA's and keep hitting the service animal brick wall.
Are ESA's service animals in the same group as a bona fide trained service animal.

We can separate ADA between FHA and HUD, who has the higher governing authority between local health departments and FHA & HUD?

The age old question is Are emotional support animals allowed to be in the pool area of HOA pools?

Just recently one of our frequent flyers to causing trouble brought dogs into the pool area, then they literately threw one dog into the pool.

IMHO they just lost all credibility to claim these animals as ESA's when they threw one in the pool.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10590


05/21/2021 11:08 AM  
No dogs in the pool period. I can understand handicap assistance dogs but not the "ESA" ones. Most people whom have actual service dogs would never do that. Call the animal control and have them come out to evaluate the situation.

Former HOA President
AugustinD


Posts:1920


05/21/2021 11:12 AM  
-- Many sites point out that the reason that state and city health laws prohibit dogs in pools is for safety. For one, the fecal matter that dogs leave in pools would require the pool to be shut down and cleaned.

-- The Fair Housing Act requires only that HOAs/COAs offer // reasonable // accommodations of the disabled. It is not reasonable to permit a service dog in the pool water when doing so would threaten the health of others and require that the pool be shut down. FHA does appear to require that condos/HOAs allow service dogs on pool decks. On the third hand, requiring that the service dog be under the control of the owner is reasonable. If the disabled person goes into the pool water and the dog goes crazy, then IMO it is reasonable to require the disabled person to get the dog trained or to not bring the dog to the pool area.

-- A disabled owner who throws an ESA dog into the pool has broken the absolute rule on no animals in the pool water. He or she has put the safety of others at risk.

-- AFAIC: It's not about credibility of the ESA owner. It's about enforcing the rules. I advise getting away from judgement that has nothing to do with enforcing the rules (including rules that are slightly modified for a disabled person).

-- I think your Board should immediately establish and publicize the fine for an owner's dog getting into the pool (or being out of the owner's control so as to jeopardize safety). Then enforce it. Meanwhile, send the disabled owner a stern warning letter.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8729


05/21/2021 12:06 PM  
LetA, does your HOA have a rule that dogs must always be under the control of their owners and on leash in the common areas? If so, the Board must Direct your PM to call this owner to a hearing and potentially fine him.

BenA2
(Texas)

Posts:1108


05/21/2021 1:30 PM  
Emotional support animals (ESA) are not the same as Service Animals. They are different categories and governed by different laws.

The Federal Housing Administration (FHA) provides guarantees for mortgages and is not connected to service animals or ESAs.

People often confuse the FHA with the Fair Housing Act which is a federal law that guarantees equal protection in housing. The Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) is responsible for enforcing the Fair Housing Act and they create the rules for ESAs.

Every state has their own division of HUD. I suggest calling your state's office with questions because they seem to change the rules so often.
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:1466


05/21/2021 1:49 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 05/21/2021 12:06 PM
LetA, does your HOA have a rule that dogs must always be under the control of their owners and on leash in the common areas? If so, the Board must Direct your PM to call this owner to a hearing and potentially fine him.






Same household I referenced in my banking from amenities post. Update, they have been summoned to a hearing.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8729


05/21/2021 1:53 PM  
I see your "reply" to me, LetA, but you didn't answer my questions?????
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:1466


05/21/2021 2:08 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 05/21/2021 1:53 PM
I see your "reply" to me, LetA, but you didn't answer my questions?????




I just did lol
AugustinD


Posts:1920


05/21/2021 2:45 PM  
Posted By BenA2 on 05/21/2021 1:30 PM

The Federal Housing Administration (FHA) provides guarantees for mortgages and is not connected to service animals or ESAs.

People often confuse the FHA with the Fair Housing Act which is a federal law that guarantees equal protection in housing.
It is common for civil rights attorneys to use the acronym "FHA" in legal briefs and treatises concerning fair housing rights and the Fair Housing Act. E.g. see http://harvardlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/2050-2057_Online.pdf and https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/HUD11-F-052-FH-18.PDF


Every state has their own division of HUD. I suggest calling your state's office with questions because they seem to change the rules so often.
HUD organizes its offices by region, not state. Each region includes several states. The interested reader should see https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/11003X2X1ADMH.PDF . It's quite possible that a person calling HUD with questions may end up on the phone with a person from out of state.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


05/21/2021 3:59 PM  
Posted By BenA2 on 05/21/2021 1:30 PM


Every state has their own division of HUD. I suggest calling your state's office with questions because they seem to change the rules so often.



Ben

What you should have said was each state has its own local HUD office. Augie has a nasty habit of going out of his way to disprove people and their opinions.
AugustinD


Posts:1920


05/21/2021 4:13 PM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 05/21/2021 3:59 PM
What you should have said was each state has its own local HUD office.
You are putting out gross mis-information. Some states have several HUD field offices. It is entirely possible that in the months following an FHA complaint submission, the complainant will be working with HUD staff in three different states. Twit.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8729


05/21/2021 4:20 PM  
Sorry, I can't find replies to these, LetA:


1. Does your HOA have a rule that dogs must always be under the control of their owners and on leash in the common areas?

2. If so, did the Board direct your PM to call this owner to a hearing and potentially fine him?

MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


05/21/2021 4:21 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 05/21/2021 4:13 PM
Posted By MaxB4 on 05/21/2021 3:59 PM
What you should have said was each state has its own local HUD office.
You are putting out gross mis-information. Some states have several HUD field offices. It is entirely possible that in the months following an FHA complaint submission, the complainant will be working with HUD staff in three different states. Twit.



What mis-information?/????

Each state has a local office, some larger states have more than one. You went after Ben implying that someone might have to go through multiple states to get to one of their office, which is a LIE!
AugustinD


Posts:1920


05/21/2021 4:34 PM  
Posted By MaxB4 on 05/21/2021 4:21 PM
Each state has a local office, some larger states have more than one. You went after Ben implying that someone might have to go through multiple states to get to one of their office, which is a LIE!
-- It is fact that a complainant's initial complaint may go to an office outside her or his state and possibly be processed in its entirety outside of her or his state. You're the one who is lying.

-- It is accurate to say that every state has federal HUD offices. But this does not mean that an FHA complaint necessarily lands in the complainant's state's office.

-- The net has all the answers. Someone indicating that "FHA" cannot refer to the Fair Housing Act is someone not versed in fair housing law.
MaxB4
(California)

Posts:1601


05/21/2021 4:43 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 05/21/2021 4:34 PM
Posted By MaxB4 on 05/21/2021 4:21 PM
Each state has a local office, some larger states have more than one. You went after Ben implying that someone might have to go through multiple states to get to one of their office, which is a LIE!
-- It is fact that a complainant's initial complaint may go to an office outside her or his state and possibly be processed in its entirety outside of her or his state. You're the one who is lying.

-- It is accurate to say that every state has federal HUD offices. But this does not mean that an FHA complaint necessarily lands in the complainant's state's office.

-- The net has all the answers. Someone indicating that "FHA" cannot refer to the Fair Housing Act is someone not versed in fair housing law.



BLAH...BLAH BLAH BLAH
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:1466


05/22/2021 6:53 AM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 05/21/2021 4:20 PM
Sorry, I can't find replies to these, LetA:


1. Does your HOA have a rule that dogs must always be under the control of their owners and on leash in the common areas?

2. If so, did the Board direct your PM to call this owner to a hearing and potentially fine him?






Yes to both.
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