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Subject: HOA sued for false imprisonment of owners
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Author Messages
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:366


01/01/2021 5:18 AM  
I side with the HOA in wanting to stop the spread of Covid-19, but isn't it common knowledge that you can't share someone's private health information?

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/south-florida-condo-accused-of-detaining-couple-over-covid-19/2353196/

I'd think that this lawsuit would be one that would be settled prior to trial, unless the HOA board is just vindictive or the plaintiffs are asking for too much in damages.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9862


01/01/2021 5:54 AM  
Okay if your trying to take the "victims" side in this article then you can bend it to their side of things. However, I also see the HOA's side as well. Which isn't necessarily right or wrong in this situation.

I do not see where they were being held hostage. The common areas are shared by EVERYONE and restrictions sometimes apply access. We've closed our pool before because people had gotten infections. There was an improper chemical balance causing people to have gotten eye infections if wearing contacts. Were we wrong to close off the pool till that got fixed?

Plus their information was NOT released by disclosing their condition. It was released because when you file a lawsuit it is public. You can not necessarily hide whom you are filing a complaint against in some legal documents initially. That is sometimes something the court has to decide to keep the information private. So they were NOT releasing their health information as much as they released public lawsuit information. It just so happen they are the ones whom were positive.

When all this started at work, I was exposed to a positive case. Was not allowed to know whom the person was. I was allowed to know the area they sat in. Which they did send everyone home. No longer allowed to come into work without permission. Not unlike what the couple in the story is experiencing.

I believe the HOA has a right to protect their common area or Public. Plus these people should not have been going into these areas under quarantine. Heck we are not allowed to return to work if we don't show 2 negative tests and quarantined for 10 - 14 days. So I don't necessarily see the couple winning their lawsuit except by public opinion.

Former HOA President
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:452


01/01/2021 6:41 AM  
Vindictive? Give me break! This couple knowingly wandered outside into common areas including the pool and fitness room knowing they were positive for COVID. I hope the HOA doesn't back down and nails them to the cross. If anything these morons were the ones being vindictive.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3601


01/01/2021 7:42 AM  
Meh.

Just another ambulance chaser yapping off.

And, another pair of nutter me-first Americans.
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:366


01/01/2021 8:00 AM  
Posted By JohnT38 on 01/01/2021 6:41 AM
Vindictive? Give me break! This couple knowingly wandered outside into common areas including the pool and fitness room knowing they were positive for COVID. I hope the HOA doesn't back down and nails them to the cross. If anything these morons were the ones being vindictive.




I'm generally pulling for the HOA here as I've be livid if neighbors with Covid-19 roamed freely in my building, but the lawyer says that the HOA disclosed their health information. If that's maybe a HIPAA violation, then they have grounds to complain. Anyone can want to "do the right thing", but the law needs to be followed in doing so.
AugustinD


Posts:4828


01/01/2021 8:07 AM  
Posted By ChrisE8 on 01/01/2021 8:00 AM
I'm generally pulling for the HOA here as I've be livid if neighbors with Covid-19 roamed freely in my building, but the lawyer says that the HOA disclosed their health information. If that's maybe a HIPAA violation, then they have grounds to complain. Anyone can want to "do the right thing", but the law needs to be followed in doing so.
I think the law during a pandemic tends to be different than the law pre-pandemic.

It seems to me the HOA put itself in a damned-if-you-do and damned-if-you-don't situation. Though understandably. Not disclosing risked people's exposure to Covid. Disclosing has yielded the lawsuit.

I agree this is about ambulance chasers. I think there may be a settlement. Subsequently I hope the the Iscowitz's feel the social isolation of many.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:10366


01/01/2021 9:47 AM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 01/01/2021 7:42 AM
Meh.

Just another ambulance chaser yapping off.

And, another pair of nutter me-first Americans.



I agree.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:1484


01/01/2021 10:07 AM  
Posted By ChrisE8 on 01/01/2021 5:18 AM
I side with the HOA in wanting to stop the spread of Covid-19, but isn't it common knowledge that you can't share someone's private health information?

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/south-florida-condo-accused-of-detaining-couple-over-covid-19/2353196/
...




HIPAA applies to health care providers and insurers, and there *may* be laws about what an employer can disclose. But HIPAA doesn't govern HOAs.

That said, as a board member I would not disclose any private info unless the law requires such disclosure.

Along with others, I'm fed up with self-absorbed and entitled jerks who believe their whims justify endangering everyone around them. Perhaps they will find themselves on the receiving end of a lawsuit...
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:366


01/01/2021 10:24 AM  
Posted By CathyA3 on 01/01/2021 10:07 AM
Posted By ChrisE8 on 01/01/2021 5:18 AM
I side with the HOA in wanting to stop the spread of Covid-19, but isn't it common knowledge that you can't share someone's private health information?

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/south-florida-condo-accused-of-detaining-couple-over-covid-19/2353196/
...




HIPAA applies to health care providers and insurers, and there *may* be laws about what an employer can disclose. But HIPAA doesn't govern HOAs.

That said, as a board member I would not disclose any private info unless the law requires such disclosure.

Along with others, I'm fed up with self-absorbed and entitled jerks who believe their whims justify endangering everyone around them. Perhaps they will find themselves on the receiving end of a lawsuit...




You're right about HIPAA.

The two owners were sued by the HOA. Probably they got ticked off and filed this lawsuit in response.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9862


01/01/2021 10:43 AM  
The HOA did NOT reveal their names per HIPAA. Here is the rub. When you file a lawsuit the parties names are NOT private. So when the lawsuit was filed by EITHER party, the names would be on that form. The nature of the lawsuit itself then released their own status of having Covid-19.

So they released the information themselves by responding to the lawsuit or the HOA revealed it by nature of filing a complaint/lawsuit. Which then makes it void.

If it was my HOA I would NOT back down nor settle. I'd make it a rule for the entire HOA you can't use common areas until testing negative 2 times or have quarantined the new 10 days. Plus you need to wear a mask. Simple as that.

Former HOA President
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:366


01/01/2021 10:58 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/01/2021 10:43 AM
The HOA did NOT reveal their names per HIPAA. Here is the rub. When you file a lawsuit the parties names are NOT private. So when the lawsuit was filed by EITHER party, the names would be on that form. The nature of the lawsuit itself then released their own status of having Covid-19.

So they released the information themselves by responding to the lawsuit or the HOA revealed it by nature of filing a complaint/lawsuit. Which then makes it void.

If it was my HOA I would NOT back down nor settle. I'd make it a rule for the entire HOA you can't use common areas until testing negative 2 times or have quarantined the new 10 days. Plus you need to wear a mask. Simple as that.




Correct, although the couple claims that the HOA released their private medical information in order to block them from access around the building.

I've seen some articles stating that HOAs should not identify residents who have coronavirus. That's apparently what happened, although I don't know if the HOA let other residents know--perhaps it just told the property manager.
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:366


01/01/2021 10:59 AM  
Also, this lawsuit ought to be settled. The owners are suing for $30k+, and it'll cost well more than that to litigate this.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9862


01/01/2021 11:08 AM  
The HOA IS your neighbors! So your basically telling the HOA your health status your already telling your neighbors...

Former HOA President
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:10366


01/01/2021 12:20 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 01/01/2021 9:47 AM
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 01/01/2021 7:42 AM
Meh.

Just another ambulance chaser yapping off.

And, another pair of nutter me-first Americans.



I agree.




I agreed and still do but upon further thought, I think the Association overstepped their boundaries. The Association is not the Covid police. I could go along with shutting down the common areas (like gyms, pools, etc) to everyone but not selectively banning people as it appears they did to this couple due to the fact they knew the couple had Covid.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:4242


01/01/2021 12:51 PM  
Something doesn't seem right with that story. Quotes attributed to the couples' lawyer suggest his English isn't that good. A lot of he-said she-said seems to be going on. The condo association may very well be liable for some of the things they've done, but some of the claims seem odd. For instance, I'm not aware of any action that may be brought for "invasion of privacy". There would be more specific language and references to the statutes there. Either the story is leaving out a lot of details or their attorney is a dingbat.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7758


01/01/2021 12:52 PM  
Say, JohnC, our CC&Rs allow us to withhold common area privileges when Owners break our rules. We're also able to disable fobs to such areas. Maybe the HOA in the case described can as well.

Not sure what Chris means by, "... I don't know if the HOA let other residents know--perhaps it just told the property manager," regarding release of the residents names.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:10366


01/01/2021 12:59 PM  
I understand and agree with amenities being withheld for fines or late dues but I think the Association overstepped its bounds in this case.
AugustinD


Posts:4828


01/01/2021 1:24 PM  
Posted By GenoS on 01/01/2021 12:51 PM
For instance, I'm not aware of any action that may be brought for "invasion of privacy".
One second there. In the United States, courts have established a tort known as "invasion of privacy." The net has plenty of discussion of this tort. See for example https://www.stimmel-law.com/en/articles/legal-right-privacy.

Of course, competing interests arise often with this tort. E.g. Does an entity have an obligation to disclose "private information" when not doing so may harm others?

Suppose John Doe is infected with AIDs. Doe's ex-wife Jane knows this. Jane tells John Doe's boyfriend, Rafe, that John is infected. Rafe did not know this before. Has Jane committed the tort of invasion of privacy? Perhaps. Does Jane have an affirmative defense that can prevail? Maybe so. Can John Doe show damages? And so on.
AugustinD


Posts:4828


01/01/2021 1:31 PM  
Here's the part of the article that bothers me some:

"The lawsuit claims the association threatened to have them 'removed from the building and/or arrested' if they left their condo without permission."

If true, then I think the HOA overstepped its legal bounds with this threat.

I am wondering if this is a senior community, where folks were much more vulnerable to severe sickness and death.
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:366


01/01/2021 1:34 PM  
The court filings are available at https://www.mypalmbeachclerk.com/records/court-records; click on "Search Court Records" and "Guest" and then type in Iscowitz as a party.

So the HOA sued the owners first, with a 6-page complaint, and identified them in the complaint as having Covid-19 even though the HOA had assured them repeatedly that nothing woudl be disclosed.

Then the owners responded with their own lawsuit.

I glanced through it. While I would not want a neighbor out and about in my condo building if the person had Covid-19, I can sure see why the these owners are mad and filed a lawsuit.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:1484


01/01/2021 1:49 PM  
This may not be entirely related, but one of the topics our attorneys addressed during training was a COA's obligations toward a homeowner who is behaving in an unsafe manner and to the neighbors who may be put at risk. This was well before covid, of course, and the example they used was an elderly person who was living alone and who would do things like forget to turn off the stove or leave water running.

The bottom line we got was that the association does have obligations in cases like these and can't just ignore the situation, but it's a really gray area without any hard or fast rules. And things are even less clear nowadays, since most of the CC&Rs and association rules were written without considering the effects of a pandemic.
AugustinD


Posts:4828


01/01/2021 2:25 PM  
I skimmed the complaint quickly. For the armchair attorneys among us, pretty cool that this part of Florida puts all the filings online for public access. It's strange to me that the initial, court-filed complaint attached the governing documents of the HOA. The complaint without exhibits is only about 27 pages long. The rest of the 194 pages is the Declaration yada filed as an exhibit. What the complaint alleges is troubling. The HOA and its management seemed inappropriately rabid? By all appearances, the reason the HOA wanted to know if anyone was infected was in fact to enable the HOA in applying restrictions far beyond what the law allowed?

At this point, and like ChrisE8, I can see why the Owners are mad. I am backpedalling from this:
Posted By AugustinD on 01/01/2021 8:07 AM

It seems to me the HOA put itself in a damned-if-you-do and damned-if-you-don't situation. Though understandably. Not disclosing risked people's exposure to Covid. Disclosing has yielded the lawsuit.
The Iscowitzes are claiming their damages are $30k, for physical and mental suffering, discomfort, inconvenience, loss of time, loss of income, injury to reputation, and expenses incurred as a result of imprisonment.

I am not persuaded that the harm, as measurable in dollars, is that great.

But in the words of Butch Cassidy, "It's the fall [the attorney's fees] that will kill you." I think the HOA's conduct was over the top, and its insurer should start with an offer of $10k and go from there.

I am not seeing the Iscowitzes winning an award of attorney's fees here. Whence the American rule, re attorney's fees, is serving its purpose: Deterring people to pursue litigation without all that much damage to the bitter end, when the attorneys win more money than any party.

ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:366


01/01/2021 2:35 PM  
Correct, they won't get attorney's fees.

I Googled the owners. They're likely very wealthy.

This is another situation where I'd ask the HOA, "what were you thinking"--you file a lawsuit that relates to medical matters against a wealthy, educated person who has some medical knowledge and you think that the person will just yield? Doesn't work that way.

However, I'd still be irked if anyone in my building went around with Covid-19. More than irked- I'd be really mad.
AugustinD


Posts:4828


01/01/2021 3:00 PM  
Posted By ChrisE8 on 01/01/2021 2:35 PM
However, I'd still be irked if anyone in my building went around with Covid-19. More than irked- I'd be really mad.
-- These days, I think I would only be mad if (1) they were breaking the law in doing so; and then only if (2) it was a law that the police were enforcing.

-- Among peers, I might apply peer pressure to someone not practicing CDC guidance.

-- It seems to me that, during one's in-person grocery shopping, one is passing many people, masked, who have Covid. I feel it's on me to take appropriate precautions.

-- This pandemic often feels like a bit of a Lord of the Flies. Are people turning more inward, unwilling to lift a finger to help their fellow women and men, on account of not wanting to be the next victim of Covid? Are many folks working at jobs where they are at high risk, on account of just wanting to be able to feed their families?

-- I continue to think often of those New Yorkers who lived next to or walked daily by temporary refrigerated trailers, holding the bodies of Covid victims. Same for El Paso and North Dakota cities. I guess we'll all live with our feelings of helplessness and horror. There's nothing else to do.

-- Donate blood.
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:1069


01/01/2021 6:35 PM  
I can see the Association turning off the fobs for access to the pool and gym, but not entry doors, elevators or areas that keep them confined or keep them from entering or exiting their unit. THAT is a BIG no no.
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:434


01/01/2021 7:27 PM  
I see a number of issues here. First, the story was published as of 12/31/2020, on an incident that happened in July with no follow-up. What is the current status today? Disclosing one's health information, is a NO-NO.

As I understand, rules and regulations can not be more restrictive than the CCRs and/or state and local laws. The state and the its governor has never taken this pandemic serious from day one, and still don't. I say sue the HOA for all it's worth and then some.

I heard vaccinations for this "China" virus in Florida are on a first come basis. I saw pictures of seniors in wheelchairs staying or sitting in line over night. That is OUTRAGIOUS!

The American people are going to have to realize that unless this virus dies on its own, we are in for a world of hurt for a long, long time. So far, we have vaccinated 2 million Americans in two weeks. At that rate it will take 11.54 years to vaccinate 85% of the U.S. population. If we vaccinate 1 million per week, we are looking at the first week of March 2022, and that is if everyone volunteers to be vaccinated and we have 600 million doses to vaccinate with.

We can only hope that the strains out of the UK, which is on American soil is not as bad as they say it is.
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:366


01/02/2021 5:01 AM  
Based on the court filings, the owners' lawsuit against the HOA is in progress.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9862


01/02/2021 5:55 AM  
JohnC77 a few clarifications. The new strain of virus is not worst than the current virus. The difference is that it is more CONTAGIOUS than the current strain. Meaning you can shed the virus at a faster rate of which you can infect more people and quicker. Currently the virus was twice as infectious as the flu. The new strain is maybe 3 - 4 times. Which means a faster rate of spread.

The old people on a first come/first serve basis is because they are in the 1st group allowed to be vaccinated besides first line workers. So amongst that group as many don't always live in nursing homes but have independent lives how would you prioritize? The flu shots and other vaccines are done same way till they run out.

Would be surprised if the owners suing the HOA win. I see little to no proof they let anyone know they were positive. What let the cat out of the bag was the filing of the lawsuit by the HOA or themselves. The court didn't have a chance to rule to keep that information confidential.

Former HOA President
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:434


01/02/2021 8:36 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/02/2021 5:55 AM
how would you prioritize?


Many people in this country don't know they have some form of "underlining health condition", until kt is too late. So I'm going to go ut on a limb and say that IF the virus can now spread twice as fast and is more contagious, it is worse that the original.

I watched the news this morning. As I mentioned, Florida is doing vaccinations on a first come first served basis. But the process is not the same from one county to another. In one, it was by appointment only, then first come, then back to appointment only. Registration sites are down phone lines have crashed. So far a disaster. Remember, the first shot means nothing without the second.

So, what;s a solution. First, invoke the DPA (Defense Production Act), get 600 million doses ready. Handle nursing homes first. Then use the pollings used in the last presidential election and set them upas vaccination stations. Two weeks 21 days apart and you can handle the required number of Americans vaccinated to get back to normal.

We have 350 million people. We need 85% or 300 million to be vaccinated. We handle at least 60 million people voting on election day. 5 days x 60 million each day. Two separate weeks and 600 million doses are dispensed.

I know this is probably off topic, but I really don't think whether or not someone put trash can behind their fence and out f sight is really that important right now.

AugustinD


Posts:4828


01/02/2021 9:11 AM  
From the court filings:

July 15, 2020
The condo's attorney sends the Iscowitzes a letter stating among other things that the Iscowitzes should not enter the common areas and they should not leave their unit except for medical purposes. The attorney's letter further stated the consequences of disobeying these instructions: The condo would seek the couple's arrest. Augie's editorial comment: Uh boy. More on this letter below.

July 17, 2020
Condo files lawsuit. The Condo seeks injunctive relief against the Iscowitzes, pursuant to FS 718.303 (1), to get the Iscowitzes to comply with the governing documents and statute and specifically, the condo's order not to use the common areas while infected with Covid. The Association enacted emergency rules pursuant to FS 718.1265(1) (g). The condo's emergency rules require all to comply with CDC guidelines. One rule is that owners must not use the common areas. The Association says Mr. Iscowitz informed the association he would use the pool, even while infected with Covid. The Association says Iscowitz's actions have burdened it with sanitizing common areas. I do not see signs that the condo ordered people to stay in their units. The condo did recommend people stay in their units. It appears the lawsuit was all about the common areas.

July 27, 2020
The condo withdrew its lawsuit, on account of the CDC's revised statement on isolation.

December 16, 2020
The Iscowitzes file a lawsuit. With regard to imprisonment, the Iscowitz's lawsuit claims that, on July 15, 2020, the condo attorney sent the Iscowitzes a letter. The complaint filed with the court quotes the condo attorney's letter verbatim. See above. With regard to the Iscowitz's claim of imprisonment, I think the condo attorney's letter, presumably approved by the Board, is a serious legal problem for the condo. If today were July 15, 2020 and I just heard of the attorney's letter, I think I would say the same thing: This letter is a mistake.
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:366


01/02/2021 9:15 AM  
I think that we should have homeowners' association boards and property managers in charge of vaccinations in the US.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9862


01/02/2021 9:16 AM  
It should be noted that only a few places can support refrigeration. So a vaccination station can't be set up if can't store the product. It is why the major pharmacy's can't distribute it. Plus the added fact that some people have allergic reactions that you now have to stay 15 minutes after the shot for observation. They have to have life saving equipment on hand and those know how to use it on hand.

It's not as easy as you think. Plus the first come/first serve is put in place after they have already done the people at the hospitals giving the shots or first responders who need to be on hand for the shots. A friend of mine is an EMT and got the shot first. Now they are doing homes and independent elderly.

If you look up the chart of distribution by the CDC you will see they are doing it by catagory. Just on 1A currently. Next 1b, 1c and then 2, 3, and 4.

Former HOA President
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:434


01/02/2021 9:56 AM  
I guarantee you that Florida has not finished the first part of the protocol. Furthermore, I don't think is even following CDC protocols at all.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9862


01/02/2021 11:49 AM  
You don't think they are but how do you know for sure? The "Operation Warp Speed" is designed to deliver the vaccines to the States. They choose the military to do it as they know logistics. It is NOT a military operation but using their best guidance. Whether or not the states follow the recommendations is on that state. It is the same reason why every state is handling the covid crisis differently. Otherwise, the government would have us ALL wearing masks and other measures.

Former HOA President
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:434


01/02/2021 12:20 PM  
Actually, based on news reports, Florida seems to be winging it. Even though it is not part if the CDC protocol they are vaccinated spouses of front line workers.

You should check, because the military is not doing the distribution, but rather commercial airlines, UPS, Fed Ex. Maybe at 12:01 PM on January 20, 2021 someone will actually take this seriously.
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:366


01/02/2021 12:23 PM  
Homeowners' association boards would do a better job with handling Covid-19, and vaccinations, than many authorities have to date.
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:434


01/02/2021 12:26 PM  
Posted By ChrisE8 on 01/02/2021 12:23 PM
Homeowners' association boards would do a better job with handling Covid-19, and vaccinations, than many authorities have to date.



That's meant as a joke, right?
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:366


01/02/2021 12:31 PM  
Posted By JohnC77 on 01/02/2021 12:26 PM
Posted By ChrisE8 on 01/02/2021 12:23 PM
Homeowners' association boards would do a better job with handling Covid-19, and vaccinations, than many authorities have to date.



That's meant as a joke, right?




Given governmental authorities' responses in the US so far (claiming that the coronavirus issue is a "hoax", refusing face masks, denigrating Covid-19 victims as people who'd die anyway, etc.), I'm not sure if it's a joke or perhaps true, sadly.
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:434


01/02/2021 12:38 PM  
I am all for a quarantining of certain states that think this is a big fat hoax. Kinda how they do in sci fi movies.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:4242


01/02/2021 1:45 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 01/01/2021 2:25 PM
The Iscowitzes are claiming their damages are $30k,

for physical and mental suffering [nope],

discomfort [nope],

inconvenience [nope],

loss of time [nope],

loss of income [maybe],

injury to reputation {nope},

and expenses incurred as a result of imprisonment {nope].

...

I am not seeing the Iscowitzes winning an award of attorney's fees here.

Agreed. Just my non-lawyerly opinion, of course, but I have an easier time imagining they end up paying the condo association's legal fees to mount a defense. Not that the codo association is squeaky clean on all this. I hope for the good of all involved, except maybe the attorneys, they just settle this before the big bucks start to run up on the meter.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:4242


01/02/2021 1:57 PM  
Posted By JohnC77 on 01/01/2021 7:27 PM
I heard vaccinations for this "China" virus in Florida are on a first come basis. I saw pictures of seniors in wheelchairs staying or sitting in line over night. That is OUTRAGIOUS!

And then a brawl nearly broke out when the morning came and new people came and attempted to cut in front of the line. In my county, the nightly news out of West Palm has reported there's a "vaccination clinic" that's going to be open on Saturday. The news has been reporting this for three days, and each day's report ends with the warning that available slots have been filled for days (you need an appointment). The real news is the fact that vaccine distribution is chaotic, at best, in Florida right now. But the news never seems to be critical of that.

Some counties have now added a new category into their "emergency alert" systems (normally for hurricane alerts, Amber alerts, etc.) The new category is "vaccine available". Call the single phone line they've set up for several million people and hope someone answers. If you get the answering machine, leave your info and someone will get back to you. In a pig's eye.
BobD4
(up north)

Posts:919


01/02/2021 3:22 PM  
Besides wishing everyone Happy New Year, let me respectfully leave a couple of stats and a quick two cents on the issue of associations daring to try to gate-keep public health on an owner-by-owner basis during a pandemic.

Covid 19 Deaths at Dec 31/20

USA 346 K deaths ! !
FLA 22 K deaths !
Canada ( population 37 M - less than California’s 39.8 M ) 15. 6 K deaths ( 13 K in Ont & Que combined )

2 Yes I get that associations or condo corporations usually may be statutory owners or "deemed" premises occupiers. And can separately have express statutory or covenanted duties to manage safely etc.

But respectfully it's a huge & oppressive over-reach to try - on the basis of public health - ( to try ) to gate-keep the amenities owner by owner. So it's not too surprising that trying that stunt instead of shutting down close-contact amenities, got them sued.

AND respectfully just think also about the typical non-medical skillsets who would eventually be giving an all-clear from the management office.

3 Incidentally "false imprisonment" without somehow totally confining movement ( from the unit ) maybe might have been easier applied as something like oppression. Or violation of property & civil rights . . . .

Again Happy New Year to all. Hope the covid-19 tragedy ends safely for us all everywhere.
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:366


01/02/2021 3:32 PM  
Posted By GenoS on 01/02/2021 1:45 PM
Posted By AugustinD on 01/01/2021 2:25 PM
The Iscowitzes are claiming their damages are $30k,

for physical and mental suffering [nope],

discomfort [nope],

inconvenience [nope],

loss of time [nope],

loss of income [maybe],

injury to reputation {nope},

and expenses incurred as a result of imprisonment {nope].

...

I am not seeing the Iscowitzes winning an award of attorney's fees here.

Agreed. Just my non-lawyerly opinion, of course, but I have an easier time imagining they end up paying the condo association's legal fees to mount a defense. Not that the codo association is squeaky clean on all this. I hope for the good of all involved, except maybe the attorneys, they just settle this before the big bucks start to run up on the meter.




I think that everybody involved here is a disgrace. The owners should have just quarantined as instructed, out of respect for others. The HOA should not have sued them. If I were an owner, I'd be mad at the owners and mad at the HOA board for acting like two year olds and wasting my HOA dues (and, in the case of the owners, putting me at risk of getting coronavirus. Shame on all of them.
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:434


01/02/2021 5:32 PM  
My wife and her mother tested positive December 2nd after a trip to Chicago. Both quarantined per the recommendations of the CDC. Mother retested after two weeks and gave back negative. Wife continued testing positive o three different occasions, most recently December 30th. Health experts say you can test positive for up to 3 months after a first test. She hasn't ever had any symptoms.

Do you quarantine for three months? According to the HOA, the couple couldn't use the facilities until they came back with a negative result.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3601


01/02/2021 7:37 PM  
John,

Interesting, but somewhat a known story - PCR tests are sensitive enough, apparently, to pick up non-viable COVID viral component long after the person is no longer contagious - BUT, the test is all there is to go on, so ...

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/08/viral-shedding-covid19-pcr-montreal-baby/

Process lagging science the is lagging real world beta testing.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9862


01/02/2021 8:19 PM  
I know where I work the requirement was 2 negative tests and quarantine before could return to work. This was the guidance we were given. If it is a family member, you have to quarantine for 14 days. Which may now turn into 10 days if negative or just exposed.

Basically I haven't seen or even met some of my co-workers since March. My job requires me to be at work regardless. While everyone else sent home. So I've had to deal with people whom are just coming off of quarantine or finding out they are positive. Which has nearly sent me into quarantine several times. It's part of the protocol now. Someone tests positive they clean their area and I may be sent home a few days.

I so can't wait to get vaccinated. Wonder if HOA's will require vaccination records to use common areas again?


Former HOA President
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Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > HOA sued for false imprisonment of owners



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