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Subject: HOA won't provide verbal info in writing
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Author Messages
PaulL12
(California)

Posts:22


11/09/2020 2:52 PM  
The outdoor parking within my HOA is marked 'Visitor Parking' and the rules state "any vehicle that does not display a visitor permit is subject to towing". I have asked the board, the security company and the association management company about this and they all say this is only enforced from 11PM to 6AM and that a vehicle will not be towed from the visitor parking during the hours of 6AM to 11PM. Furthermore, the culture within our community is that people always are parking vehicles between 6AM and 11PM without a visitor permit.

As I occasionally have guests between 6AM and 11PM who ask, "will my car be towed?" (when I either can't or it is inconvenient to put the permit on their vehicle) I don't know what to tell them. If I tell them no, and their car is towed, then I am liable for their towing costs and vehicle damage as well as the potential of a ruined friendship. If I tell them yes it may be towed, then they have to needlessly park very far away. (FYI, the usage rates in the outdoor parking is seldom above 40 to 50%)

To help protect myself, I asked the association manager and board for something in writing corroborating what they have told me verbally, but they refuse to provide it.

Does anyone have any guidance?
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9714


11/09/2020 3:28 PM  
Stop over thinking it. The car is at risk for being towed so tell your guest yes. Simple as that.

Former HOA President
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:225


11/09/2020 3:39 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/09/2020 3:28 PM
Stop over thinking it. The car is at risk for being towed so tell your guest yes. Simple as that.




This, exactly.

If someone will tell you something verbally but won't put it in writing then you can't count on it, no matter what the situation is.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7660


11/09/2020 4:00 PM  
You're on the Board, right, Paul? As suggested in another of your posts, why not put this topic on an open meeting agenda so that it'spsosrted for owners to see. Use the language that you think makes sense.

Then the Board can discuss this at a meeting and vote on it.

Is this something else you've been busted for?
PaulL12
(California)

Posts:22


11/09/2020 4:34 PM  
You're on the Board, right, Paul? As suggested in another of your posts, why not put this topic on an open meeting agenda so that it'spsosrted for owners to see. Use the language that you think makes sense.

Then the Board can discuss this at a meeting and vote on it.

The board will vote against disseminating this information in written form. I know them well enough.

Is this something else you've been busted for?

No. I have never been busted for refusing to put something in writing which I had told someone verbally.
AugustinD


Posts:4421


11/09/2020 5:27 PM  
Posted By PaulL12 on 11/09/2020 4:34 PM
Is this something else you've been busted for?
No. I have never been busted for refusing to put something in writing which I had told someone verbally.
Uh oh. I am getting a bad feeling.
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:403


11/09/2020 6:07 PM  
"As I occasionally have guests between 6AM and 11PM who ask, "will my car be towed?" (when I either can't or it is inconvenient to put the permit on their vehicle) I don't know what to tell them."

Inconvenient? Oh well.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7660


11/09/2020 7:03 PM  
What you've been wanting is support from owners. By writing an agenda item, which must be posted in public 4 days before an open meeting in CA, owners will see it and decide to attend because they too, according to you, want clarity.

So it doesn't matter much what the Board votes. Owners will able to comment on this in your required open forum. This is one way to elecit supporters when you're in the minority on the Board.

Have you placed ANYthing on your Board's agenda?

When I asked if you'd been busted, I meant for a parking violation for you or your overnight guest?

Meanwhile, I would follow the written rule.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3411


11/09/2020 7:20 PM  
Making less and less sense.
PaulL12
(California)

Posts:22


11/09/2020 9:29 PM  
:What you've been wanting is support from owners. By writing an agenda item, which must be posted in public 4 days before an open meeting in CA, owners will see it and decide to attend because they too, according to you, want clarity.

Where do you get this four day thing? We have an open forum session in which anyone can speak up about any topic with or without having notified anyone else in advance. Yes, I want clarity and I want things in writing.

So it doesn't matter much what the Board votes. Owners will able to comment on this in your required open forum. This is one way to elecit supporters when you're in the minority on the Board.

Have you placed ANYthing on your Board's agenda?

As indicated earlier, that is not necessary. I've already reached out to most of the community.

When I asked if you'd been busted, I meant for a parking violation for you or your overnight guest?

Myself nor anyone that I know of has ever been cited or busted for parking without a permit during the aforementioned 6AM to 11PM period - even though the rules say a permit is required during those hours.

Meanwhile, I would follow the written rule.

In our community, although permits are required 24/7, it is common knowledge that it is perfectly OK to park without a permit during the aforementioned daytime/early evening hours.
SueW6
(Michigan)

Posts:781


11/09/2020 10:39 PM  
The board has a contract with the towing company, right? Then there should be minutes of a board meeting where it was decided to Designate these particular hours for towing.

The towing company needed this authorization to be stated in its contract. Find the minutes of that meeting Or get a copy of the contract. .There you will have written confirmation of the services provided and for what hours.

AugustinD


Posts:4421


11/10/2020 7:31 AM  
Posted By PaulL12 on 11/09/2020 9:29 PM
:What you've been wanting is support from owners. By writing an agenda item, which must be posted in public 4 days before an open meeting in CA, owners will see it and decide to attend because they too, according to you, want clarity.

Where do you get this four day thing?
California Civil Code 4920(A), as well discussed at https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Board-Meeting-Notice

The open forum session is not the same as the board meeting.

KerryL1 is probably the most experienced person here with what California statutes and case law require of HOAs/COAs.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:3577


11/10/2020 9:24 AM  
I'm sorry, but why am I getting a vibe that half the stuff you bring up seems to be related to something that inconveniences you and/or your friends? Maybe I'm overthinking this, but if this was something that dozens of your neighbors were bringing up, I'd understand your pushing the issue.

Are your friends incapable of understanding the rules? You have a sign and the rule applies to everyone in your building. "A vehicle that doesn't display a visitor permit is subject to towing" sounds pretty clear to me, but there's also something called discretion. If someone is getting into his/her car to leave after 11 pm just as the tow truck is pulling into the parking lot, I wouldn't expect that car to be towed. I don't care if the lot is empty half the time - don't want your car towed, leave by 11 pm, or get a permit. As Kerri noted, it doesn't sound like you've discussed any of this with your board - why not?
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:10130


11/10/2020 10:40 AM  
I know one Condo Assoc that had dashboard parking permits an owner would request to use for his guest when parking overnight in Guest Parking spot.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7660


11/10/2020 12:51 PM  
Paul, you'd written somewhere that you're fairly familiar with CA HOA statutes and with your own Bylaws. And, as a director, you should be. In both places you'll see that items that are to be on the Board's open meeting agenda must be posted in a public place at your HOA 4 days ahead of the open meeting. This is so that Owners can read the agendas and a decide if they want to attend the Board meeting.

If your agenda items are something that Owners care about, Owners will attend the board meeting and speak up about your topic when the Board holds the statutorily required Open Forum. Open forum is NOT the time/place for your or other owners to offer new ideas except to ask the Board to consider it at a future meeting.

Aren't your open board meeting agendas posted in your HOA? Our PM even send out the agendas to all owners to make it really convenient. I''m also asking again: Why don't you place some of your concerns, with your proposed solutions, on an open meeting agenda. As a director, it's part of your fiduciary duty to contribute to your HOA with initiatives and ideas.



SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:3577


11/10/2020 1:41 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 11/10/2020 10:40 AM
I know one Condo Assoc that had dashboard parking permits an owner would request to use for his guest when parking overnight in Guest Parking spot.



Exactly! You can set some rules to help prevent abuse and look into a system to keep track of the permits to make it extremely difficult to copy (so people don't keep stacks in their homes).
PaulL12
(California)

Posts:22


11/10/2020 3:40 PM  
Paul, you'd written somewhere that you're fairly familiar with CA HOA statutes and with your own Bylaws. And, as a director, you should be. In both places you'll see that items that are to be on the Board's open meeting agenda must be posted in a public place at your HOA 4 days ahead of the open meeting. This is so that Owners can read the agendas and a decide if they want to attend the Board meeting.

If your agenda items are something that Owners care about, Owners will attend the board meeting and speak up about your topic when the Board holds the statutorily required Open Forum. Open forum is NOT the time/place for your or other owners to offer new ideas except to ask the Board to consider it at a future meeting.
Can you please elaborate. New topics and ideas are routinely brought up during our open forum. Are you saying that new ideas should not be allowed to be brought up during open forum? If so, what section/code states that?

Aren't your open board meeting agendas posted in your HOA? Our PM even send out the agendas to all owners to make it really convenient. I''m also asking again: Why don't you place some of your concerns, with your proposed solutions, on an open meeting agenda. As a director, it's part of your fiduciary duty to contribute to your HOA with initiatives and ideas.
My understanding is all of these things require a quorum of board members. To have something put on the agenda, it requires a quorum of the board. Myself and many other homeowners I've spoken with have a lot of good ideas, but the board makes decisions not based on what is in the best interests of homeowners, but based on what will cost them the least amount of time. Given that last part, what do you see as the best way to reverse this problem?
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7660


11/10/2020 5:10 PM  
Didn't you look up what Augustin kindly provided for you (above)? This 4-day statute might also be in your Bylaws. Along with that, in CA Board may NOT take action (vote) on anything that is NOT on the posted agenda (except for emergencies). Soooooo, the Board may NOT vote on or even discuss ideas or comments that owners bring up in open forum. Instead & i'll repeat for maybe the 3rd time, a board member typically says we can look into that and place it on the the next open meeting agenda.

I don't grasp what you mean by some matters require a "quorum" of directors. The Board cannot meet and vote or do anything unless there is a quorum of the board in attendance in person or electronically at a board meeting. Do you mean a quorum of the board must accept your agenda item (which in CA would've to be prior to 4 days before the meeting, not AT the meeting.)?

Again, have you placed ANYthing on a meeting agenda? Have you tried?

I think you were joshing with me when you wrote you have a pretty good handle on your bylaws & Civil Code. It's time to start learning. Go to Davis-stirong.com, go to their Index and click on topics that concern you.

GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3411


11/10/2020 7:04 PM  
Say, Paul, is this your first time on a board?
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7660


11/11/2020 9:00 AM  
Sorry, davis-stirling.com
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