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Subject: Minutes
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Author Messages
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/15/2020 5:44 PM  
What happens if I do not approve of the minutes. The minutes are not truthful representations of what happened at the meeting. What can I do about it> Anything? They will be read and approved by everyone but me, so I guess I just have to agree to disagree about what is truthfully being reported in these minutes?
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17008


10/15/2020 6:19 PM  
Approval/disapproval is done by majority vote.
Anyone who votes against approval, should be able to have a short statement as to why they voted that way placed in the minutes of the current meeting.

That said, remember that the minutes are not verbose. They are simple statements of what happened.

For example:

X gave a report on questions posed to the attorney.
Board discussed the issue and by a vote of x to y will do abc
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3275


10/15/2020 6:26 PM  
Tim’s point is key - Board meeting minutes should be short. Motions, votes ... “Discussion on topic xxx.”
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:3512


10/16/2020 6:22 AM  
What Tim said.

If you have concerns about an issue that was approved, write a one page statement expressing your concerns and ask they be attached to the mnutes. This way any who requests a copy will also get a copy of your statement - and if you're asked for details, you'd better be prepared to defend them.If

Also, what "truth" are you talking about? It's one thing to disagree about an action the board took because you feel certain information wasn't considered, but if you're upset because someone said something that wasn't true, take it up with that person. If it's all your board colleagues, request an executive session and tell them how you feel and hash it out that way.

Remember minutes must reflect actions the board took. If there was a vote and you were on the losing side, you can't change that because that's what happened. It's not about who said what.

LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/16/2020 7:34 AM  
Great! Thank you.... But where does it say I can do that in Robert's Rules of Order? If it doesn't say I can do that, they will not allow it.
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/16/2020 7:39 AM  
Tim B4 As you say, the minutes are simple statement of what happened. They will include their side's description of what happened and exclude what actually happened in total. Get it? How can I make sure the community knows the truth with simple statement of both sides? Does it say something about this in Roberts Rules....as that is the parliamentary source we use. Thanks!
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/16/2020 7:51 AM  
Sheila H My understanding is that the minutes should be short statements on what happened at a meeting. Actually, nothing happened of substance at the meeting. We have a divided community,one side wants transparency, openness, to be informed about what the board is doing, planning etc. The other side wants secrecy, no conversation with co-owners, no bylaw representation etc. This meeting was set to address co-owner complaints against other co-owners for alleged bylaw violations. It lapsed into a screaming session. Nothing was decided, only one thing voted on.

The minutes are being compiled and drafts are being sent which do not fairly address what happened. There were obvious divisions and I want them fairly stated in the minutes. Both sides. How do I get this? The minutes are available for the community to read. The meeting was attended by many co-owners, much more that usual, but many did not attend or went home as it was very contentious. Thanks for your help in this matter.
AugustinD


Posts:4153


10/16/2020 8:07 AM  
LouH1, do the Minutes reflect that you cast a dissenting vote? If so, I do not think you have much, if any, legal recourse. Your legal remedy is to help campaign for like-minded owners to win election to the Board.
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/16/2020 8:21 AM  
Augustin D. I wrote you a big long question, but don't see it here. I have not cast a dissenting vote on any minutes approvals or on anything recently. We have voted on next to nothing forever.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7579


10/16/2020 8:30 AM  
If the Board voted on only one matter at the meeting that is all that should be in the minutes. The vote is the only thing that "happened."

If the Board wishes the minutes could stay that x, y & z are discussed--just the names of the topics.

Why was complaints or one owner against another even on the agenda??? Shouldn't that have been in executive session?
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/16/2020 8:37 AM  
AGUSTIN D please ignore if you got the other question.....same as this, mostly

Can't find my other long question to you, so I will try to shorten it and ask it again. I said I agreed with your entire message and that we had tried to amend the bylaws years ago and failed to get the necessary 2/3 vote. We have a lot of apathy, but also much discontent and division at this point. I am trying to replace with like minded board members, but it will, I think, take years and I may run out of energy.

Question: Our board has been approving expenditures for years by using email and majority vote, Nonprofit Corp. Act, Act 162 of 1982, 450.2525, sec. 525 Taking Action without meeting:consent.
The history seems to indicate it is in effect....correct? But I think we have been doing this incorrectly, but correct me if I am wrong. The act indicated the vote to approve should be unanimous
consent, and we have only used majority consent. Also it says the written consents shall be filed with the minutes of the proceedings of the board. We never even address any expenditures in our meetings, nor, from what I can see, is it ever entered in our minutes. I feel something is amiss here.....comments? Thanks so much.
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/16/2020 8:41 AM  
You bring up a good point. We had many complaints and so this meeting topic was to address these co-owner complaints.....with any co-owners attending. Does is say that this should have been the protocol we (directors) should have taken....? Does it give instruction in Robert's Rules to handle complaints in this manner? I have not looked for it there. Thanks for your comments.
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/16/2020 8:42 AM  
That we should have used executive session in addressing these complaints??
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9648


10/16/2020 9:28 AM  
Usually don't include "complaints" but actions taken on those complaints. You dictate what actions the board has agreed to in taking action. Whether it be table it to another meeting or to spend money on fixing. You don't put the long list of complaining in the notes. That's just too much detail not needed. A complaintant is asking for action to be taken. So the HOA notes what actions it does.

Former HOA President
AugustinD


Posts:4153


10/16/2020 10:01 AM  
Posted By LouH1 on 10/16/2020 8:41 AM
Does it give instruction in Robert's Rules to handle complaints in this manner? I have not looked for it there. Thanks for your comments.
To be clear about Robert's Rules: Some HOA/Condo Bylaws require use of the latest edition of Robert's Rules. Many do not. If the Bylaws do not require use of Robert's Rules, then Robert's Rules have zero, none, nada legal force.

Nationwide many cities have ordinances requiring the use of Robert's Rules. Lawsuits can and will continue to happen concerning a failure to properly apply Robert's Rules in City Council proceedings. But without the HOA/Condo Bylaws requiring use of Robert's Rules, then a HOA/condo member complaining about not complying with Robert's Rules will get nowhere in a court of law.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3275


10/16/2020 10:05 AM  
The application of RRoO seems like a small component of the issues represented by the OP.
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/16/2020 10:08 AM  
Thank you! So, the unsatisfactory response to the complainant is the attorney opinion/response/conclusion. Old bylaws which may create a reasonable legal challenge of uncertain outcome. Aren't all legal challenges "uncertain." So to take this conclusion as the only way the board can respond and then, basically say we cannot "act" on any complaint by co-owners seems ridiculous to me. I feel, relying on one attorney to decide what to do is a cop out related to our duties as directors. We should collect all data and determine the course of action, I think. Otherwise, why even have directors if you are just going to leave everything to an attorney who might, just might conclude what certain members wanted him/her to conclude so they would not have to make a determination. What do you suggest I do about this? My options are few and none as I am in the minority. Appreciate the time you take to communicate your suggestions. Thank you again.
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/16/2020 10:08 AM  
Again, what is the OP?
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7579


10/16/2020 10:13 AM  
Lou, what do your bylaws say about executive session?? And when you can convene an executive session? An association's bylaws and a states statutes both supercede Robert's Rules of Order.

Concerning minutes, though, just look in the Index of Robert's Rules for "Minutes," and read the passages.

But are you saying that at this crazy so-called meeting it was one owner complaining against another? And everyone was identified? And that there were more than one case of such complaints?? If so, why were they allowed to take up board meeting time? What purpose did your board think such an approach would have served? You will not find this in Robert's because it's not a typical board meeting topic. right, the

Board meetings are to discuss and act on the Association's business. They are most certainly NOT for owners to go at each others' throats.


Your tacked on topic about taking action without a meeting, should be a new thread, Lou.
AugustinD


Posts:4153


10/16/2020 10:24 AM  
Posted By LouH1 on 10/16/2020 10:08 AM
[snip statements I am having trouble parsing] So to take this [condo attorney's] conclusion as the only way the board can respond and then, basically say we cannot "act" on any complaint by co-owners seems ridiculous to me.
I agree with you: First, it is not at all clear that the non-Architectural Bylaws are not legally enforceable. Second, "The law is what the court says tomorrow." Third, there may be a lot that argues that in fact, the non-architectural sections are legally enforceable and would hold up in court. Fourth, it's expensive for an Owner to sue a HOA. Fifth, if these non-architectural bylaws seem reasonable, the condo should enforce them, afaic.


Posted By LouH1 on 10/16/2020 8:13 AM
I feel, relying on one attorney to decide what to do is a cop out related to our duties as directors.
I disagree it is a cop-out. I would say 99.9% of volunteer directors are not capable of understanding like 90% of the law on covenants. For a board to rely on an expert's (an attorney's) recommendation is not only reasonable, but expected.

I think Boards rarely seek a second opinion from another attorney. It's just not done. And believe me, an attorney whose advice is being questioned, may be furious at having his/her judgment questioned, especially by a (oh-my-god) mere mortal (vis-a-vis the gods that attorneys are). Though an attorney angry with having her/his advice being questioned is foolish. This is because any disagreement about anything tends to lead to more billable hours for the attorney.

I honestly think that at attorney conferences, after a drink or two, many HOA/condo attorneys sit around discussing how promotion of this or that HOA/condo internal conflict led to $10,000 of billable hours here; $3000 there; and so on.

Law firms are businesses first.

What should a director, like yourself, do when you firmly believe the condo attorney is wrong? Some options:

Ask the Board to invite the condo attorney to an executive session meeting with the Board. At the meeting, you ask for the case law that supports the attorney's position and for him to put in writing his legal reasoning. The attorney will hate you for the rest of your life, but hey, you are acting in the best interests of the membership and the corporation. You might even point out to the attorney that you have doubts that not enforcing the Bylaws is in the best interests of the corporation, for the five reasons I gave above.

You are welcome
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:10014


10/16/2020 10:26 AM  
Posted By LouH1 on 10/16/2020 7:39 AM
Tim B4 As you say, the minutes are simple statement of what happened. They will include their side's description of what happened and exclude what actually happened in total. Get it? How can I make sure the community knows the truth with simple statement of both sides? Does it say something about this in Roberts Rules....as that is the parliamentary source we use. Thanks!



Minutes should not include a description of what was said. They can say that So and So was discussed with no action taken. This is not showing a preference. They must show all Motions Made and the result of the Motion but again not show specific discussion. Examples:

Smith Made a Motion to Lower Dues 20%.
Jones Seconded the Motion.
A discussion was held.
A vote was taken and the Motion failed 5 to 2.
Smith and Jones voted Yes. The rest of the BOD voted No.

Landscaping needs were discussed. No action taken.

This discussion could have gone on for an hour and been heated but further information is not required.

The minutes are not a narrative.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:3512


10/16/2020 11:12 AM  
Once again, board meeting minutes should reflect board ACTIONS. You said nothing if substance happened during the meeting, but that's your OPINION. You also said a vote was taken on something else, so that's what goes on the minutes.

You can say the board discussed X, Y and Z, in the minutes, but you don't put opinion of subjective language in it. If the board voted to assign an issue to an advisory board to do more research and report back to the board with recommendations on what to do, THAT'S what you put in the minutes. Nothing more, because anything else would be subjective.

What if other people attended and thought the meeting was productive because everyone got a chance to express themselves. That viewpoint is just as valid as yours - why should that be added or ignored just because You disagree with what happened?

It's like looking at inkblots - I say it's a bird, you say it's an old lady who's right? What if 10 people looked at an inkblots - two couldn't tell what it was, one person didn't care and said so, 5 said an old lady and 2 said it was a bird. If that goes in the minutes, you don't say "2 people said they didn't see anything, so they obviously don't give a damn or are as stupid as a bag of hammers." You say 10 people looked at the inkblots, and voted to have another 10 look and get their opinion on what it might be.


If a lot of people attended the meeting, that's great, but I bet if you spoke to some they'd all have different opinions on what went on, so don't overthink this. Stick to what the board actually did. If people are dissatisfied, they'll attend the next meeting and say so, perhaps run for the board when the opportunity arises. If the current board gets voted out, the new breed can run it their way.

One of those members may be YOU, so start now by learning to separate the people from the problems. That'll help you focus on what needs to be done instead of being distracted by personalities.


LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/16/2020 1:24 PM  
Article 10 Meetings designates..."Meetings of the Association shall be conducted in accordance with Sturgis' Code of Parliamentary Procedure, Roberts Rules of Order or some other generally recognized manual of parliamentary procedure as selected by the Board of Directors, when not otherwise in conflict with the Condominium Documents or the laws of the State of Michigan. So I guess it does have some standing.....
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/16/2020 1:44 PM  
We have no bylaw addressing executive session,. We have a section on Annual Meetings, Special Meetings (directed by resolution of the BOD) or a petition of 1/3 of the co-owners. No business shall be transacted at a special meeting except as stated in the notice,which shall state the time, place and purpose of the meeting. This is probably what we should do in addressing complaints, yes? Thanks!
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/16/2020 1:55 PM  
You are the greatest! I do feel it is a cop out when the attorney is a friend of 2 directors and has been coached on what you want the answer to say. I wasn't born yesterday and this guy did exactly as he was told. But I do agree with you in that lawyers are needed to help us understand bylaws/covenants. I almost paid for another (unbiased) lawyer to give us a second opinion...but it would cost me considerable $$$. But....I still may do it if I get mad enough. Time will tell.
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/16/2020 2:38 PM  
SheliaH. thank you, you make some valid points and I appreciate them. You see, This meeting was total chaos, people screaming in each other's faces, people yelling at each other from across the room. I spoke to many people after the meeting, many left when it got to be too much. I agree with you as far as everyone has their own interpretation, however, you would have had to have been there to understand what I am saying and co-members were shocked at what was happening in the community. Things they had never been informed about etc.

Minutes for the past few years have included what everyone said, with opinions, mostly nothing voted on, mostly everything ignored, mostly nothing accomplished. Shall I give you the list of the things NOT being done for years that used to be done for the community?,..... Like a website, like flowers at the entry, like a newsletter.... This idea of constructing minutes with only actions done with no opinions or subjective talk... is anathema to our BOD and Secretary.... but I am attempting to make some headway.....some small changes..maybe.

I am not distracted by personalities. This board is entrenched (my opinion, I realize) and members have been on it for 20 plus years. The community deserves better, but I understand, the "community" has to decide they are fed up and change the board make-up, I can't do it. I actually like all the BOD members, they are good people who are playing to their own tunes and doing things to oftentimes help themselves. It will eventually change, I know that. But yes! I am frustrated and welcome all of your comments. I especially like you suggestion of voting to get an advisory committee (we can form committees as allowed in the bylaws, and never has been done...) to do some research and get back with recommendations on some problems we have. A great idea, thanks again.
AugustinD


Posts:4153


10/16/2020 3:28 PM  
Posted By LouH1 on 10/16/2020 1:24 PM
Article 10 Meetings designates..."Meetings of the Association shall be conducted in accordance with Sturgis' Code of Parliamentary Procedure, Roberts Rules of Order or some other generally recognized manual of parliamentary procedure as selected by the Board of Directors, when not otherwise in conflict with the Condominium Documents or the laws of the State of Michigan. So I guess it does have some standing
Has the Board formally stated, as recorded in Minutes or by resolution, that it has adopted such-and-such rules of parliamentiary procedure? If not, you are back to square one in my opinion.
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/16/2020 3:32 PM  
Yes! I invited and made them vote on it and it was entered in the minutes about a month ago.
AugustinD


Posts:4153


10/16/2020 4:01 PM  
Then wherever the Minutes are not complying with whatever parliamentiary rules your Board has adopted, ask the Board to correct this.

I would not get my hopes up with this Board.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:10014


10/16/2020 4:05 PM  
Lou

With the chaos, your association has more problems than with theer minutes alone. Your BOD has to get control of the meetings.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7579


10/16/2020 4:20 PM  
I see your Article 10, Lou, refers to "meetings of the association," which means meetings of the members (Owners). So... robert's Rules don't seem to be required for meetings of the Board.

BUT, you apparently made a motion and the Board approved it to use Robert's Rules for board meetings. Is that right? And this vote is recorded in the minutes of that meeting? Here is what we've been trying to tell you: "Not only is is not necessary to summarize matters, it is improper to do so. Minutes are a record of what was done at a meeting, NOT a record of what was said." p. 172 Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised (RONR) in Brief, 2011. Also see RONR, p. 468, 11th ed.

So, to answer your original question, Lou, unless you disagree with the wording of the one action item that actually was voted on as stated in the minutes, you'd vote to approve them. If you voted no on this item, you vote already should be in the minutes.

Your Board should not do anything about "complaints" unless there is evidence that an Owner or his lessee or guest broke an HOA rule or covenant. Then the Board listens to the alleged violator's side and decides if the owners should be fined or whatever fits the violation. In many states and in many HOA's bylaws, the meeting between the alleged violating owner and the Board is a private meeting, which in bylaws and in Robert's is usually called "executive session."

Other names might be a "closed meeting" or a "confidential meeting?" No, a "special meeting ion the Board" s not closed to the membership and is simply a meeting on a specific topic (or 2) on a day different than the usual board meeting day.

Let us say that an owner wants to be placed on a payment plan due to job loss. The owner would ask the board for permission. In your HOA, would the Owner have to tell his sad personal story in front of a bunch of other owners at an open meeting of the Board?? Does your Board do nothing to protect such a person's privacy?

Meanwhile, reading between the lines, it seems that board meetings are very disorganized and improper. It's also not clear if you or the other directors know the difference between and meeting of the board and meeting of the members (Owners)

What size is your HOA? Do you have aproerty manager who attend board meetings?
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/16/2020 4:25 PM  
You have hit the nail on the head! I have very little hope that I will be successful in getting this board to do much of anything in the best interest of our community. BUT I am hopeful....eventually. if I can hang in there long enough.
Best wishes my friend.
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/16/2020 4:46 PM  
We have a small Association and yes we do have managers who do not attend board meetings. Excepting the annual meeting. We do not. In our bylaws have anything like a closed meeting. But we do have a special meeting ( for the BOD)that has to be called by the President with 3 days notice to each director.Special meetings of the BOD shall be called by the President or Secretary in like manner and on like notice on the written request of 2 directors.

The BOD does not listen to complaints and makes no decisionns about them. Instead. Get a lawyer and uses their conclusion as the decision.....no discussion with the board about anything.
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:128


10/16/2020 5:12 PM  
Posted By LouH1 on 10/15/2020 5:44 PM
What happens if I do not approve of the minutes. The minutes are not truthful representations of what happened at the meeting. What can I do about it> Anything? They will be read and approved by everyone but me, so I guess I just have to agree to disagree about what is truthfully being reported in these minutes?




Then the minutes of the meeting where the untruthful minutes are approved will simply state that the minutes were approved by everyone but you.

That's it.

If you think that the minutes are untruthful, propose corrections.
SueW6
(Michigan)

Posts:768


10/17/2020 8:49 AM  
The board can go into executive session anytime it wants to. A motion is needed. That is covered in Roberts rules of order.

What topics are OK in the executive session are: legal matters, concerns about individual members disciplinary action, Legal contracts, employee issues.

LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/17/2020 9:16 AM  
I get what you are saying, thank you for the clarification, What good would it do and would I be able to attach a short statement with the minutes of my interpretation. Or is this not a possibility and I just have to live with it? That is OK too. This community is divided and my adding to that division is not something I want to do. So I try to step back and understand what is happening. I have many members who want to know what the board is doing, want them to do more, and are tired of being kept in the dark. What is happening is the majority of the board is really complacent, thinks everything is wonderful and we should just continue forward. They refuse to act on any co-owner complaints, refuse to do any of the things done in the past, like newsletters etc. I guess, as AugustinD and others have told me many times, I need to change the board and fill with like minded members. Easier said that done, but I get it. I may not have the time or energy to do this. In the mean time, I do want to be supportive of those members who want some changes, so you can imagine the animosity I receive when I speak up on their behalf.

The minutes are a small thing, but I have finally gotten (within the last 4 months) the board to approve a webmaster after many years, and start it up again with postings of the minutes, contracts etc. The community can access this information. However, they have put controls on that even. Things like community garage sales, birthday events, suggestions, questions to the board etc. must be submitted and will take the board 2 weeks to approve. This was passed by the majority and I had a fit....to no avail. This is a totally controlling board who mostly wants to get rid of the bylaws and only take care of fees, common areas, pool and clubhouse and let everyone do just what they feel like doing with their homes. It is a struggle, a very big struggle and I am hopeful, as I continue to talk with (much to many director's chagrin) the community co-owners, encouraging their participation.

I have rambled on enough......sorry.
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/17/2020 9:18 AM  
Sue W6 Would co-owner complaints qualify for an executive session? And would I be able to call one on my own? Probably not, and that is the problem as well.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7579


10/17/2020 9:23 AM  
Say, Lous, unless the only motion in the minutes is stated incorrectly, the minutes are correct as written. Vote to approve the. Forget about these minutes.
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/17/2020 10:26 AM  
You don't seem to understand the ramifications of this. The minutes can go on for 6-7 pages of he said, she said, all being consumed by the co-owners whom have not been informed about any of the community and board events affecting them. The community is split, 1/3 wanting more information and action from the board, 1/3 want no action, so the bylaws will disappear, and 1/3 don't care about any of it. So, as an elected board member who mistakenly thought the board was in place to do what was "best" for the community in general, I am in a difficult position.

The 1/3 who wants the bylaws adhered to, wants to keep their house values up, wants to have a newsletter, wants to have co-owner complaints addressed in a timely fashion, wants to have the community kept up as it was in years gone by..........are depending on me to help them make this happen. The minutes are small change, I understand and I will vote to approve but ask you, other than get new like minded board members on the board, which will take years and years if ever.......what can I do? The board majority does not want me interacting with co-owners, calls me a community wrecker etc. They do not abide by the "rules" or bylaws and there is basically nothing I can do about it except "talk with the co-owners and that becomes difficult to do with the board voting to basically "shut me up."

The minutes are not the biggest problem by any means, I understand that. But they are a connection with the community and they should be informative of what the board is doing. 90% of the minutes say just that....nothing. We now have some issues and so they are holding the minutes back and have not provided the community with any minutes for most of the entire year.

It helps for me to just vent and I appreciate you hearing me out. This site has been very helpful for me in clarifying some things I might be able to do. How, for instance, do I make sure any new vendor expenditure gets 3 bids?
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:10014


10/17/2020 11:57 AM  
BOD minutes are not the place for one to be entering their personal beliefs or a reason for their action. When a vote is taken on something, if not unanimous then the vote are listed so one is on record how they voted Such as Bob, Mary, Joe, Tim voted Yes. Lou voted No. End of it.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3275


10/17/2020 12:54 PM  
Lou,

You may be using bylaws to mean bylaws, and another document, CCRs,

Are you convinced about how short the minutes should be? I can’t tell. This is where you start - where you finish could be replacing enough board members to effect the changes required.

Finally, you are addressing bids in another thread.

LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/17/2020 1:34 PM  
I am convinced they should be very short and straight forward. Why are my bid question on another thread and how do I receive your answers?
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/18/2020 8:55 AM  
How do I find the other thread addressing bids? Thanks!
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3275


10/18/2020 10:34 AM  
Lou - you mentioned three bid topic in your other post, "Bylaw Problem" - you got a bit of an answer. If you want to get into this topic further, it might make more sense to start a new thread.

I think most associations would set up processes for bids based on value of the work - perhaps no bids for under $1000, with a requirement for x bids is over $x.
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/18/2020 11:31 AM  
thanks so much, I will do just that!
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:128


10/18/2020 11:38 AM  
Posted By LouH1 on 10/17/2020 10:26 AM
The minutes can go on for 6-7 pages of he said, she said




That's insane. At most they would typically be 2 pages: "such and such a topic was discussed", with any resolutions voted on, period.

If the minutes are rambling, feel free to vote against them. If the board is doing anything illegal, that might give you some protection, but mostly voting against the minutes just shows a board that can't get it together over something as basic as minutes.
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/18/2020 12:56 PM  
Thank you. Good advice, I think. But why and how could it ever be considered "illegal?"
LouH1
(Michigan)

Posts:137


10/18/2020 1:06 PM  
Thank you KerryL1

No, all of our board meeting are open meeting with co-members invited. The vote was taken to approve Roberts Rules for all meetings. We do not have an executive sssion meeting designated in our bylaws. I think we need to be thinking of a way to provide privacy to our members as well. Doesn't seem to be a way in our bylaws, but maybe in Robert's Rules?
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:128


10/18/2020 1:08 PM  
Posted By LouH1 on 10/18/2020 12:56 PM
Thank you. Good advice, I think. But why and how could it ever be considered "illegal?"




A lot of things that the board could be doing could be illegal:

1. Acting in ways that violate the bylaws.

2. Breaching fiduciary duties to run the HOA in the interests of owners, such as by not acting with “due care” or with loyalty to the interests of owners (such by making decisions that help individual directors or the property manager, but harm owners).
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3275


10/18/2020 1:58 PM  
Lou,

You have Bylaws - and you have CCRs (also likely something like Articles of Incorporation, as well).

Executive Session may be included by state law (statute) - have you read and understand Michigan HOA/COA/POW statutes? This is not something to be guessed at.

Some states allow discussion about accounts in arrears at the Board meetings - no restrictions. Some states only allow ES for very limited circumstances like employee discussion, pending or ongoing litigation, etc - and, some require the attorney to be present.

Reading required.
KellyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:1559


10/18/2020 4:24 PM  
Lou,

Don't lose sleep over meeting minutes.

In fact, Tim's correct. The minutes should reflect tactical actions of the board of directors in handling business with minimal descriptive text to avoid what you're explaining in the post above.
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