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Subject: Association is responsible for sub-floor. TX COA
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Author Messages
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:660


10/11/2020 12:37 AM  
How does this actually work in practice, though? There is no doubt that the damage to mine is foundational and the responsibility of the HOA. But with that being the case, they aren't going to want to spend more to repair it the way I would rather, which is one area at a time. I presume they will expect me to move out all furniture and pull up flooring for them to pay to have it all done at one time.

Anyone dealt with this personally before as an owner or a board member?
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9648


10/11/2020 4:30 AM  
So how did we determine the HOA is responsible for sub-floor repair? We just want it to be that way? It's pretty odd to have sub-floor damages that is a direct result of HOA. Did ALL your neighbors come into your house and jump on your floor at once to break it?

Define bad sub-floor issue and how it is such? Plus where does it define it is HOA responsibility? You keep ASSUMMING so much that it's hard to tell truth from reality. Myself I have a sub-floor issue but I am also responsible for it. Just have to ask the HOA permission to repair it when the time comes. I am not going to make them pay for it.

Former HOA President
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:660


10/11/2020 5:38 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/11/2020 4:30 AM
So how did we determine the HOA is responsible for sub-floor repair? We just want it to be that way? It's pretty odd to have sub-floor damages that is a direct result of HOA. Did ALL your neighbors come into your house and jump on your floor at once to break it?

Define bad sub-floor issue and how it is such? Plus where does it define it is HOA responsibility? You keep ASSUMMING so much that it's hard to tell truth from reality. Myself I have a sub-floor issue but I am also responsible for it. Just have to ask the HOA permission to repair it when the time comes. I am not going to make them pay for it.



In in our docs. I am assuming nothing. You are the second most entertaining person on this forum, the things you post.

It's cracked as a result of foundational problems and the foundation being repaired. The HOA, or any members thereof, do not need to DAMAGE the sub floor for it's repair to be on the HOA.

Do you understand that COA means I am in a condo, not a house? I guess not.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:1315


10/11/2020 5:39 AM  
Your CC&Rs should define what components of the buildings are the "unit" (ie. homeowner responsibility) and "common elements" (association responsibility).

Typically the owner must maintain all components of the unit. So if there is an issue (eg. a cracked foundation), the association will repair the common elements and the owner will take care of everything else.

If your CC&Rs are well written, this should be pretty clear.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3275


10/11/2020 5:45 AM  
If Jennifer speaks this way to the COA Board ... helps explain her lack of success?

Another dead end.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:660


10/11/2020 5:50 AM  
Posted By CathyA3 on 10/11/2020 5:39 AM
Your CC&Rs should define what components of the buildings are the "unit" (ie. homeowner responsibility) and "common elements" (association responsibility).

Typically the owner must maintain all components of the unit. So if there is an issue (eg. a cracked foundation), the association will repair the common elements and the owner will take care of everything else.

If your CC&Rs are well written, this should be pretty clear.



In our case, the sub flooring is their responsibility. It is made plain. I just don't know how one goes about that logistically. I am getting all new floors, but I didn't plan on doing the entire condo at once.

Let's say a unit owner wants new kitchen floor only. I don't know that the HOA would want to come out to do just the kitchen and then some other time the living room, so on like that.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:660


10/11/2020 5:53 AM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 10/11/2020 5:45 AM
If Jennifer speaks this way to the COA Board ... helps explain her lack of success?

Another dead end.



There has only been one board member who goes off wildy the way Mellissa does and I chose early on to cease communicating with him, and he's long gone, so no, there is no correlation.

This poster believes that all HOA and COAs across the country operate the same as hers and that her personal judgement of what is reasonable and fair is more relevant than what laws say. Entertaining, yes,. Helpful, no.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:660


10/11/2020 6:12 AM  
"It is typical in condominium associations for the HOA to have the responsibility to maintain, repair and sometimes replace concrete slab floor. These areas are usually covered by carpeting, wood or tile, but when the floor coverings are removed there is often visible cracking."

https://www.mwgjlaw.com/single-post/2017/08/09/411-on-HOA-cracks
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:389


10/11/2020 6:49 AM  
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/11/2020 5:50 AM
Posted By CathyA3 on 10/11/2020 5:39 AM
Your CC&Rs should define what components of the buildings are the "unit" (ie. homeowner responsibility) and "common elements" (association responsibility).

Typically the owner must maintain all components of the unit. So if there is an issue (eg. a cracked foundation), the association will repair the common elements and the owner will take care of everything else.

If your CC&Rs are well written, this should be pretty clear.



In our case, the sub flooring is their responsibility. It is made plain. I just don't know how one goes about that logistically. I am getting all new floors, but I didn't plan on doing the entire condo at once.

Let's say a unit owner wants new kitchen floor only. I don't know that the HOA would want to come out to do just the kitchen and then some other time the living room, so on like that.




In my association I would not vote to allow these repairs to be done piece meal since it would more than likely cost more to do so. Also, from a budget perspective I would have no idea when you will feel like getting this room or that room repaired. It's all or nothing.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:660


10/11/2020 7:01 AM  
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/11/2020 6:49 AM
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/11/2020 5:50 AM
Posted By CathyA3 on 10/11/2020 5:39 AM
Your CC&Rs should define what components of the buildings are the "unit" (ie. homeowner responsibility) and "common elements" (association responsibility).

Typically the owner must maintain all components of the unit. So if there is an issue (eg. a cracked foundation), the association will repair the common elements and the owner will take care of everything else.

If your CC&Rs are well written, this should be pretty clear.



In our case, the sub flooring is their responsibility. It is made plain. I just don't know how one goes about that logistically. I am getting all new floors, but I didn't plan on doing the entire condo at once.

Let's say a unit owner wants new kitchen floor only. I don't know that the HOA would want to come out to do just the kitchen and then some other time the living room, so on like that.




In my association I would not vote to allow these repairs to be done piece meal since it would more than likely cost more to do so. Also, from a budget perspective I would have no idea when you will feel like getting this room or that room repaired. It's all or nothing.



I hear you. That is logical. But then you'd pay for flooring to come up that otherwise wasn't going to yet? Say there is an owner perfectly happy with all flooring except they want to upgrade their kitchen. They can't, until the HOA repairs and levels the sub floor.

Let's say they have nice flooring everywhere else, not cheap to take up and put back down or replace. It seems like it can be pretty complicated unless the owner already wants ALL new flooring, in which case taking it up and putting down new is all on the owner, and it's all done at once.

JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:389


10/11/2020 7:09 AM  
My point is I will always take the advice of a qualified contractor and the homeowner would have no say in the matter. If he or she said it ALL needs to come up then that is what I would vote for. If he or she said that parts of the subfloor didn't need replacing then that is what I'd vote for. What I will never do is allow a homeowner to manage the project. Every homeowner thinks they are an expert in all subjects and once you start catering to them you lose control of managing the community and your finances.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:1315


10/11/2020 7:19 AM  
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/11/2020 7:01 AM
... snip ...

I hear you. That is logical. But then you'd pay for flooring to come up that otherwise wasn't going to yet? Say there is an owner perfectly happy with all flooring except they want to upgrade their kitchen. They can't, until the HOA repairs and levels the sub floor.

Let's say they have nice flooring everywhere else, not cheap to take up and put back down or replace. It seems like it can be pretty complicated unless the owner already wants ALL new flooring, in which case taking it up and putting down new is all on the owner, and it's all done at once.





I can see both sides of this, so you'll have to negotiate with the board.

Just opining here, but in my community the subflooring is part of the unit, so we wouldn't get into this. And Jennifer's issue illustrates why it's smarter to do it our way unless there is some structural issue that makes it impractical.

How does an HOA manage costs if the owners control when the subflooring has to be replaced? It can't, not very well anyway. And different flooring materials may work better with one type of subfloor than another, and if owners control the type of flooring they put down, they're in control of the subflooring again.

Makes no sense to me.



MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9648


10/11/2020 8:44 AM  
The HOA is NOT responsible for YOUR choice. You are the one whom wants the new floor NOT the HOA. The HOA says you want new flooring you get approved for it. If they find an issue during installation of that flooring then deal with it then. However, it's most likely going to be dealt with by the contractor that is hired. Just because you rip a floor up doesn't mean sub-floor is involved unless it is damaged during the uninstall.

The HOA isn't responsible for OUR PERSONAL choices/TASTE for our flooring. You want to install wood instead of tile, then that is on you. Understand the HOA can say NO to the wood because it is NOT sound proof. It will cause issues with your neighbors below. So many HOA's restrict wood flooring on higher floors.

You can lay wood over tile without tearing up the floor... Why does the floor need to be ripped up again?

Former HOA President
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:660


10/11/2020 9:48 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/11/2020 8:44 AM
The HOA is NOT responsible for YOUR choice. You are the one whom wants the new floor NOT the HOA. The HOA says you want new flooring you get approved for it. If they find an issue during installation of that flooring then deal with it then. However, it's most likely going to be dealt with by the contractor that is hired. Just because you rip a floor up doesn't mean sub-floor is involved unless it is damaged during the uninstall.

The HOA isn't responsible for OUR PERSONAL choices/TASTE for our flooring. You want to install wood instead of tile, then that is on you. Understand the HOA can say NO to the wood because it is NOT sound proof. It will cause issues with your neighbors below. So many HOA's restrict wood flooring on higher floors.

You can lay wood over tile without tearing up the floor... Why does the floor need to be ripped up again?



We do not have to gain permission to install any sort of flooring we'd like to. Even upstairs that affects sound to DS neighbors. Considerate people are careful in that regard, but they don't have to be. Again you are assuming about our governing docs, which you know nothing about.

The concrete subfloors are common elements. The cracks in them are from foundation shift and then foundation repair, which they are fully aware of and have repaired them in other units for this reason. Not often, because most people assume it's on them, but the ones who know it's on the HOA have them do it, and it is almost always when old flooring is pulled up to replace that the damage is seen. Sometimes flooring will crack and that is what alerts the owner, as it did in my bathroom.

JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:660


10/11/2020 10:00 AM  
Posted By CathyA3 on 10/11/2020 7:19 AM
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/11/2020 7:01 AM
... snip ...

I hear you. That is logical. But then you'd pay for flooring to come up that otherwise wasn't going to yet? Say there is an owner perfectly happy with all flooring except they want to upgrade their kitchen. They can't, until the HOA repairs and levels the sub floor.

Let's say they have nice flooring everywhere else, not cheap to take up and put back down or replace. It seems like it can be pretty complicated unless the owner already wants ALL new flooring, in which case taking it up and putting down new is all on the owner, and it's all done at once.





I can see both sides of this, so you'll have to negotiate with the board.

Just opining here, but in my community the subflooring is part of the unit, so we wouldn't get into this. And Jennifer's issue illustrates why it's smarter to do it our way unless there is some structural issue that makes it impractical.

How does an HOA manage costs if the owners control when the subflooring has to be replaced? It can't, not very well anyway. And different flooring materials may work better with one type of subfloor than another, and if owners control the type of flooring they put down, they're in control of the subflooring again.

Makes no sense to me.







What if it didn't cost more, or I would pay the difference? I want to do my kitchen now, but not the entire condo. I know for a fact they would approve 'my' contractor because he is their personal contractor as owners and probably are using him again for the association. If he agreed do do it in pieces, maybe they would too.

This isn't a frivolous 'want'. The kitchen flooring is ruined and an emergent need. No, nothing I did hurt the sub floor. I've had my friend in who used to be on the board and she confirmed that is what they see in all units affected by the foundation, which is structural, and that is why it's the responsibility of the HOA.If it was on me she would have been quick to say so. She is very defensive about HOA funds. She doesn't even like that sub floors are covered at all, but they are.

It doesn't have to be replaced, just the cracks filled in, and leveling. I know very little about flooring, but I believe that process can be done in just the kitchen to start.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:660


10/11/2020 10:05 AM  
Posted By CathyA3 on 10/11/2020 7:19 AM
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/11/2020 7:01 AM
... snip ...

I hear you. That is logical. But then you'd pay for flooring to come up that otherwise wasn't going to yet? Say there is an owner perfectly happy with all flooring except they want to upgrade their kitchen. They can't, until the HOA repairs and levels the sub floor.

Let's say they have nice flooring everywhere else, not cheap to take up and put back down or replace. It seems like it can be pretty complicated unless the owner already wants ALL new flooring, in which case taking it up and putting down new is all on the owner, and it's all done at once.





I can see both sides of this, so you'll have to negotiate with the board.

Just opining here, but in my community the subflooring is part of the unit, so we wouldn't get into this. And Jennifer's issue illustrates why it's smarter to do it our way unless there is some structural issue that makes it impractical.

How does an HOA manage costs if the owners control when the subflooring has to be replaced? It can't, not very well anyway. And different flooring materials may work better with one type of subfloor than another, and if owners control the type of flooring they put down, they're in control of the subflooring again.

Makes no sense to me.







re reading this, there won't be a new sub floor, and I am not even requesting a new sub floor of the same type, much less a different type. It is important for all floor types except carpet, if I am not mistaken, that the surface be level and smooth. I think only carpet can go over cracks and be ok. I could leave the bedroom totally alone for that reason. Not bother then about the sub floor there, since I want carpet again in there when I do that room.


JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:389


10/11/2020 11:30 AM  
"What if it didn't cost more, or I would pay the difference? I want to do my kitchen now, but not the entire condo. I know for a fact they would approve 'my' contractor because he is their personal contractor as owners and probably are using him again for the association. If he agreed do do it in pieces, maybe they would too."

It would still be a big fat NO for me. You still have the issue of spreading the cost over different budgets and I wouldn't do it. The contractor in this case needs to be hired and managed by the HOA and will never ne 'your' contractor. In addition, you could be whacked by a train tomorrow and now we'd have to deal with a different owner who might have different demands. There are other valid reasons that I won't get into because I'm not sure you would care. However, the bottom line is, my job is to look out for the best interest of the entire HOA/Community and not you specifically. If you have to rip up all your floors at one time then so be it.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9648


10/11/2020 11:40 AM  
JohnT8 let's not overlook the facts here. Cracks in sub-floor are actually not a structural issue. It's kind of normal to have cracks in sub-floor. It is a problem if it causes plumbing issues or structural integrity. The person that should be looking at the floors is NOT a flooring contractor. It should be STRUCTURAL ENGINEER.

I've built over 25 houses, an Electrician, and worked as a handyman. Have remodeled my own home. So far do not see a correlation of cracks in a sub-floor and the need to fix/replace it. If someone rips up installed flooring then that is on them for repairs. It is NOT on the HOA. If the HOA hires a structural engineer and they say the sub-floor is needing X repairs then HOA may be responsible. A homeowner whom wants to change out their flooring is NOT an expert nor can assess what the HOA is responsible for.

Former HOA President
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:389


10/11/2020 11:47 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/11/2020 11:40 AM
JohnT8 let's not overlook the facts here. Cracks in sub-floor are actually not a structural issue. It's kind of normal to have cracks in sub-floor. It is a problem if it causes plumbing issues or structural integrity. The person that should be looking at the floors is NOT a flooring contractor. It should be STRUCTURAL ENGINEER.

I've built over 25 houses, an Electrician, and worked as a handyman. Have remodeled my own home. So far do not see a correlation of cracks in a sub-floor and the need to fix/replace it. If someone rips up installed flooring then that is on them for repairs. It is NOT on the HOA. If the HOA hires a structural engineer and they say the sub-floor is needing X repairs then HOA may be responsible. A homeowner whom wants to change out their flooring is NOT an expert nor can assess what the HOA is responsible for.




I don't disagree with you but I'm willing to assume the worse for the sake of argument. My point was, and is, you don't cater to owners when it comes to repairs and maintenance.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9648


10/11/2020 11:55 AM  
Have to agree on that JohnT. What one owner wants doesn't justify as a WHOLE HOA need. People don't seem to get when they ask the HOA to pay for something, it is THEM and THEIR neighbors paying for it. It's like me wanting to install a gas lit front porch light. Am I to ask the HOA to responsible for adding a gas line into the walls because I bought a gas powered light?

Former HOA President
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:10014


10/11/2020 12:15 PM  
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/11/2020 7:09 AM
My point is I will always take the advice of a qualified contractor and the homeowner would have no say in the matter. If he or she said it ALL needs to come up then that is what I would vote for. If he or she said that parts of the subfloor didn't need replacing then that is what I'd vote for. What I will never do is allow a homeowner to manage the project. Every homeowner thinks they are an expert in all subjects and once you start catering to them you lose control of managing the community and your finances.




Well said.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:10014


10/11/2020 12:30 PM  
Jenn

Based on what you have said, there is not a sub-floor per se. What you have is a concrete base floor then flooring materials is put down on top on the concrete. Padding for carpet, underlayment for floating floors, tile, etc. It is only a matter of time before all concrete will crack. The severity of the crack becomes the issue. If it is a hairline crack, rarely will it do any damage to the flooring materials above it especially soft ones like carpet padding and carpet or those with an underlayment such as under vinyl flooring.

You say it has been a common occurrence in your COA so your BOD has dealt with the issue before. I suggest you get out of their way and let them make a decision how best to address the problem. Do not be dictating to them how to do it.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:660


10/11/2020 7:05 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 10/11/2020 12:30 PM
Jenn

Based on what you have said, there is not a sub-floor per se. What you have is a concrete base floor then flooring materials is put down on top on the concrete. Padding for carpet, underlayment for floating floors, tile, etc. It is only a matter of time before all concrete will crack. The severity of the crack becomes the issue. If it is a hairline crack, rarely will it do any damage to the flooring materials above it especially soft ones like carpet padding and carpet or those with an underlayment such as under vinyl flooring.

You say it has been a common occurrence in your COA so your BOD has dealt with the issue before. I suggest you get out of their way and let them make a decision how best to address the problem. Do not be dictating to them how to do it.



As I said, I know little about flooring. The docs refer to this as sub flooring.

This cracking is not hairline, it is enough to disturb the flooring above it. I'm pretty sure this is not a replacement issue, but one of filling cracks and leveling.

All at once. Ouch. A friend of mine di his himself, not knowing it was HOA responsibility. He said it was a nightmare to get all furniture and everything else, like moving.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:660


10/11/2020 7:12 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/11/2020 11:40 AM
JohnT8 let's not overlook the facts here. Cracks in sub-floor are actually not a structural issue. It's kind of normal to have cracks in sub-floor. It is a problem if it causes plumbing issues or structural integrity. The person that should be looking at the floors is NOT a flooring contractor. It should be STRUCTURAL ENGINEER.

I've built over 25 houses, an Electrician, and worked as a handyman. Have remodeled my own home. So far do not see a correlation of cracks in a sub-floor and the need to fix/replace it. If someone rips up installed flooring then that is on them for repairs. It is NOT on the HOA. If the HOA hires a structural engineer and they say the sub-floor is needing X repairs then HOA may be responsible. A homeowner whom wants to change out their flooring is NOT an expert nor can assess what the HOA is responsible for.



Cracks caused by foundational shift and repair are considered structural, your random babbling to the contrary. I already stated the known cause. They had engineers out to other units for the same thing. You don't read an detail, you just babble randomly on the subject in general. Having nothing whatsoever to do with the actual topic at hand.

I live in a condo, not a house. We have 500 units, not 15. We have a full time maintenance staff, we don't have to contract out for everything. Our docs do not require permission to install flooring and we are not limited in the type we may have. We have a very large budget, we don't have to scrounge for pennies.

You are incorrect in this post. If I rip up floors and find a problem that is on the HOA to fix, it's on them to fix. Owners find out about these cracks in two ways. Our flooring gets damaged from it, like in my bathroom it pushed little parts of the flooring up, or by pulling up flooring to replace and seeing it then. How it's discovered has nothing to do with whose responsibility it is.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:660


10/11/2020 7:17 PM  
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/11/2020 11:30 AM
"What if it didn't cost more, or I would pay the difference? I want to do my kitchen now, but not the entire condo. I know for a fact they would approve 'my' contractor because he is their personal contractor as owners and probably are using him again for the association. If he agreed do do it in pieces, maybe they would too."

It would still be a big fat NO for me. You still have the issue of spreading the cost over different budgets and I wouldn't do it. The contractor in this case needs to be hired and managed by the HOA and will never ne 'your' contractor. In addition, you could be whacked by a train tomorrow and now we'd have to deal with a different owner who might have different demands. There are other valid reasons that I won't get into because I'm not sure you would care. However, the bottom line is, my job is to look out for the best interest of the entire HOA/Community and not you specifically. If you have to rip up all your floors at one time then so be it.



I would care, I asked because I want to know.

I understand he would be their contractor in that instance.

I don't understand what you mean by different demands of a new owner.

Someone else was talking about replacing and wanting a different type due to the flooring they want. That is not an option for us. I cannot say I would like X type of sub floor. All I can ask is that mine as it is be repaired or replaced, whatever is required, which is not replacement in my case. A sub floor that can be patched and leveled doesn't need replacing. I think replacing is a multi unit project and only undertaken for a lot more massive problem than I have here.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3275


10/11/2020 8:38 PM  
Wow.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:660


10/11/2020 9:15 PM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 10/11/2020 8:38 PM
Wow.



Yeah wow. Troll.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3275


10/11/2020 9:28 PM  
Again, Jennifer, is this how you behave with your board?

You apparently like the word, “troll.” Why? Is it a word you believe describes folks who are tired of your whining, and complaining? If so, your use of it is accurate this time.

Remember, once you start calling names, you lose.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:660


10/11/2020 10:37 PM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 10/11/2020 9:28 PM
Again, Jennifer, is this how you behave with your board?

You apparently like the word, “troll.” Why? Is it a word you believe describes folks who are tired of your whining, and complaining? If so, your use of it is accurate this time.

Remember, once you start calling names, you lose.



You've added nothing of substance to my threads, so yeah, you're just trolling. There is nothing for me to 'lose' with you.

And no, this is not how I behave with the board. 99.99999999999999% of the time, there is no interaction with the board from me. I have a question every now and then for the CM. Or I send an email, as we are asked to do, when I see a porch light out or a sprinkler head gone wonky, so they can tell maintenance.

I don't ask them for anything. In 15 years I asked for one thing: new caulking on the windows. And that wasn't even bothering me. Rain water was coming in through my cracks and going inside my DS neighbor's unit.

They said no because of the new 'maintenance responsibility chart'. That new chart constituted a change in the by laws w/o owner approval, so it's not valid. The old one goes off the by laws and puts that on the HOA.

I said that to my friend on the board and said do you really want owners on ladders doing that anyway? And then one will sue if they get hurt and discover that responsibility was on the HOA the whole time. She agreed that the HOA should do that, per the bylaws. No big deal.

I don't complain either. I go into the office when our cards/remotes need reprogramming and that is all they ever see or hear from me. I do my own pest control. I maintain my unit. I don't care when I notice something wrong elsewhere. They will get to it. If it's not directly affecting me, I leave that to them.

I don't care how our grass is mowed or how long it takes for the leaves to get picked up after. I mention that because it's a constant topic for some people. They never, ever stop bitching about whatever lawn service we have.

This is a nice place with low dues. Very low for how nice it is, and it doesn't stay that way paying top dollar for everything and getting to everything immediately, that was explained to me by a board member a decade ago when I made an inquiry about a few things. I said alright, sounds good to me, and continued on my walk with my dog.

They have people constantly micromanaging them, demanding to see receipts for anything over $50, constantly as a team sending novels through the email about the most minor things. We are a large place with a large budget.

Buying a used golf cart for maintenance/security to use was a good purchase. Yet people were UP in arms. After all, that $2500 could have gone to their pet project. Or I guess leave $5 of their money in their pocket, I can't explain why that was such a thing.

Everytime I would walk my dog one person would say can you believe they wasted money on upgrading the gym? I was like yeah, I've been in there and it needed the new equipment, I love it. If I didn't love it I still wouldn't care. They can't please 500 people. There will always be people who want attention to the tennis courts paid before the gym or whatever else and I don't care. Whoever gets elected gets to make those decisions, and as long as they aren't outrageous, I just let them do that w/o making any sort of fuss, bitching at them, as everyone else constantly does.

The person who has cost the association the most money, hundreds of thousands of dollars, on a lawsuit alleging all sorts of tin foil hat conspiracies, is now sitting on the board where she has been trying to be for over a decade of WAR. She is NOT a reasonable person.

*I* am not that type of owner. I am not trying to run the board. I don't go to meetings and bitch. I don't go at all. I want to be left alone and I leave them alone. You're taking two items and making them into something they aren't. I was overcharged, I want it rectified. My subfloors need fixing before I can get new floors. And then they won't see or hear from me again until my remote needs reprogramming or I notice a porch light out.

Oh wait, and until they want my vote and come ask me to sign their proxy. That happens every year, so they come to me way more often than I go to them. Sometimes I have to endure multiple people coming to my door wanting my vote, even though I always know who I am going to vote for and cannot be swayed. They bother me more than the other way around in the end.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9648


10/12/2020 4:31 AM  
Okay did anyone else catch on? I don't do this but I do this... BUT do not bother the board...etc... Or "I don't accept the by-law changes so will not follow them..."

You are so beyond passive-aggressive I swear your picture would be next to the description in the dictionary...

I just can't give advice to this anymore. It's like advising a brick wall.

Former HOA President
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:660


10/12/2020 5:08 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/12/2020 4:31 AM
Okay did anyone else catch on? I don't do this but I do this... BUT do not bother the board...etc... Or "I don't accept the by-law changes so will not follow them..."

You are so beyond passive-aggressive I swear your picture would be next to the description in the dictionary...

I just can't give advice to this anymore. It's like advising a brick wall.



That is your lack of reading comprehension again.

By laws cannot be changed on a whim. Changing who is responsible for what is a change in the by laws, which require owner approval. The new maintenance chart was wrong. It conflicted with the by laws.

The board went down to the county and recorded a 'resolution' which doesn't mean boo. By law changes have to be approved by owners.

There was no argument over this. I am friends with a lady who was on the board at that time. I pointed these facts out to her. Hey, friend, etc. and so forth. Not GD you, etc. and so forth.

She didn't understand at first. She was part of the board that made the resolution. It was presented to her and other board members by then then President as an affirmation of the responsibility chart, not a change. I showed her the changes, and the by laws and how those can't be changed w/o owner approval and how shifting responsibilities is going against the by laws. She was like oh wow, ok yeah, that new chart is trash.

It has since been trashed. The old chart is the current chart again. I needed one thing in 15 years. Caulking. It conflicted with this stupid new chart and so it was denied at first.

I didn't argue with the CM or make a scene with the board. I walked over to friend's house with documents and said please take a look at this. That does not a history make of conflict at all.

Nor is it how you falsely portrayed it here. 'I didn't want to follow new by laws'. I would follow new by-laws if we had any. The chances of ever getting that many people to sign onto any changes is remote, I doubt I will ever have to.

That chart was whack. It put maintenance of the chimneys on us. Pfft. Chimneys are on them, fireplaces are on us. I mentioned to my friend that they should be checked and cleaned from time to time in conversation. The HOA is all she wants to talk about most of the time, so I did say my opinion in CONVERSATION with my FRIEND. Not as argument with the CM or board. And that was like a helpful hint. Yanno, like so if one causes a fire the HOA would be on the hook for it. It's not something I am asking to be done. I wish they would, but it's not a battle I care to take on at all.

So lets review. In 15 years of living here and paying dues I've had three issues. Caulking on windows, excessive charges I want rectified, and my sub floor repaired as is their responsibility to do so and they have not fought with other owners about that. These are the exact same sort of cracks that others have from foundation shift/repair. They jacked us up, dropped us down, etc.





JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:660


10/12/2020 5:30 AM  
PS, I effected a positive change for the community in the best way possible. How you spin that into a negative is beyond me. That BS chart was likely to get them in trouble someday. I wouldn't have even noticed the change had I not happened to need caulking at that time. I didn't get a notice about the resolution. I don't go to the county to look for postings from our board. I don't pay attention to board matters.

But you can bet that if something were to happen due to HOA denying their duty of maintenance based on a faulty premise, that would be big trouble for them. If whatever hypothetical owner also didn't pay attention, their insurance company or attorney would pay attention. They'd say what is this 'resolution' garbage? The by laws clearly state XYZ.

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