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Subject: Can this be rectified almost a year later? TX COA
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JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/09/2020 1:40 AM  
I was overcharged for damages. Our by laws say the owner must reimburse for expenses incurred. There is no room in that language to charge a penny more than what the HOA spent. During a mental health event (yay!) I did some damage. I know for a fact that what they charged me was not legal, what I am unclear on is whether I have a legal remedy almost a year later.

I was hoping the new BOD would see things differently, but I got a no from them as well. This is outrageous. If they can't be compassionate about the fines and late fees, I can accept that. But to be charged $80 for a few swipes of paint on my front door, that is not cool. A board member did it, so they only INCURRED an EXPENSE of pennies for paint.

They charged me $40 for unrolling part of a roll of doggy waste bags *rolly eyes*

$60 more than once for clean up of debris in the parking lot. The maintenance lady gets paid minimum wage. They didn't pay her anywhere near that.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9649


10/09/2020 4:30 AM  
Lesson learned yet? It is NOT your choice of rate of expense it is the HOA's. If the HOA has to correct something it is at THEIR rate NOT yours. They give you 2 options:. Fix it yourself OR pay someone of your choice to do it. If you do not, then the HOA can charge you their rate. It doesn't matter if you think it should cost pennies to fix. If it did, then why did you not do it or pay someone pennies to do it? You did NOT choose that so the HOA choose it.

The HOA is due EXACTLY what it is out of pocket. If you took this to court, the court will do the SAME thing. This isn't a personal injury case. It's a "Get what I am due" case. Which a HOA does NOT make you "rich" they make you "Whole". So whatever expense is proven to have been spent is the damages you pay.

Sound harsh? Yes, it is. It is also REALITY. Do you want someone to feel sorry for you and pay your more money because of it? Or do you want to fix it when requested under your own power?

Former HOA President
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/09/2020 4:55 AM  
I was never given the option to repair it myself. My maintenance guy would have done it for $20. The board member just came and painted it and charged me.

It is NOT as you say 'their choice' what to charge.

Did you read the OP? Our by laws say EXPENSES INCURRED. Money they paid out. So, that is pennies in paint for my door. Maybe $1 worth of dog waste bags.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3279


10/09/2020 5:19 AM  
Jennifer,

Sounds like a lot more to this story.

Interesting to hear, I’m sure.

Are you a board member? On a committee?
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:391


10/09/2020 5:41 AM  
Do you consider the time that everyone spent cleaning up your mess an expense? If not, why don't you? There is another option available to you. You could accept that you lost control of your emotions and accept the fine and move on to more important matters.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/09/2020 6:03 AM  
Who is everyone? The maintenance lady and a guy who lives here cleaned up the debris in the parking lot. Is that what you mean? He offered to me directly to do that at no charge because that is the sort of guy he is.

The lady who works here is paid minimum wage or barely above that. It took under half an hour. Not $60 worth.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/09/2020 6:19 AM  
LOL George. I am an owner. I used to be on a committee. I used to post here about other matters. I have bipolar disorder. I hardly ever have an episode, I went 8 years w/o one, but when I do it's like the guy in 'A Beautiful Mind'.

For months I go around doing 'interesting' things like putting graffiti on my walls. On my front door. I was mad at the sign that says to leash your dog and pick up its waste. So I spray painted over the leash instructions part.

I took the end of a roll of doggy waste bags and just walked with it, thinking it was neat to create like a banner behind me. :-)

I threw stuff in the parking lot. Twice.

I GET that I caused damage that costs money and I owe it. I GET that they will not waive the punitive fines of $50 per occurrence due to medical condition, even if I do not LIKE it.

What I do *not* get is how they thought it was ok to charge more than actual damages when the by laws clearly state they have no power to do so. It says they may demand EXPENSES INCURRED.

It's profiting off of my misfortune. I even paid late fees for the time I was in the hospital and had no method of knowing I had anything accruing late fees. It's shitty. All I want is for them to retain actual expenses incurred and credit my account for the rest.

The door is not even properly painted. A board member barely covered the grafiti. I still can't see out my peephole (I had to spray paint that so people couldn't see in, yanno ;-) and for $80 the entire thing should be painted.

Also, they filed criminal charges against me. I mean, enough is enough, seriously.

JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:391


10/09/2020 7:04 AM  
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/09/2020 6:03 AM
Who is everyone? The maintenance lady and a guy who lives here cleaned up the debris in the parking lot. Is that what you mean? He offered to me directly to do that at no charge because that is the sort of guy he is.

The lady who works here is paid minimum wage or barely above that. It took under half an hour. Not $60 worth.




You missed my point entirely. I'll give you an example. You did something that required action. Who was it reported to? A property manager or Board member? How much time did that person spend on the phone? Did they have to call other Board members and discuss the situation? If so, how much time did they spend? The maintenance lady you spoke of lost 30 minutes of time dealing with her normal duties instead of dealing with this nonsense. What's that value? The person who painted your door had to go find the paint and take the time to come to your place to do the work. What's that worth? I could go on but hopefully you get my point.

In our community the minimum fine is equal to one hour of whatever the current hourly rate is of our property manager. The fact that you had a meltdown and have a fought for a year overly a relatively minor fine speaks volumes about you.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/09/2020 8:42 AM  
I paid the fines, it's the damage amounts I object to. They got at least $200 in fines alone.
AugustinD


Posts:4160


10/09/2020 8:47 AM  
From prior posts by JenniferG11, this is a condominium "governed primarily by chapter 81 (built before 1994)." Some sections of chapter 82 apply as well. I suggest sending a letter to the manager as follows:

Dear Condominium Association,

Pursuant to Texas Property Code 81.209 and 82.114, please provide me with a time I may view the the detailed written account of the expenses incurred to paint my front door; unrolling dog waste bags; and cleaning up debris in the parking lot that resulted from my acts on _____.

Sincerely,

name
address
phone number
email addie

If what the association billed you does not seem fair, then in Texas, I think your next step is to take the association to small claims court. You would send a brief, concise, polite but firm demand letter first.
AugustinD


Posts:4160


10/09/2020 8:52 AM  
Also, your Condo is subject to TPC 82.102 (a)(12)-(21), (f), and (g). Fines have to be reasonable. You must be given a hearing. More.

Importantly, from TPC 82.102 (a) (12)'s reference to (d):
====Start excerpt===
(d) Before an association may charge the unit owner for property damage for which the unit owner is liable or levy a fine for violation of the declaration, bylaws, or rules, the association shall give to the unit owner a written notice that:

(1) describes the violation or property damage and states the amount of the proposed fine or damage charge;

(2) states that not later than the 30th day after the date of the notice, the unit owner may request a hearing before the board to contest the fine or damage charge; and

(3) allows the unit owner a reasonable time, by a specified date, to cure the violation and avoid the fine unless the unit owner was given notice and a reasonable opportunity to cure a similar violation within the preceding 12 months.
====end excerpt===

I believe any of the above not done is grounds for your contesting the fine in small claims court.

Nationwide the courts do expect condos to respect due process covenants, rules and regulations, and statutes for condos.
AugustinD


Posts:4160


10/09/2020 8:52 AM  
See
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PR/htm/PR.82.htm

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PR/htm/PR.81.htm
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/09/2020 9:59 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 10/09/2020 8:47 AM
From prior posts by JenniferG11, this is a condominium "governed primarily by chapter 81 (built before 1994)." Some sections of chapter 82 apply as well. I suggest sending a letter to the manager as follows:

Dear Condominium Association,

Pursuant to Texas Property Code 81.209 and 82.114, please provide me with a time I may view the the detailed written account of the expenses incurred to paint my front door; unrolling dog waste bags; and cleaning up debris in the parking lot that resulted from my acts on _____.

Sincerely,

name
address
phone number
email addie

If what the association billed you does not seem fair, then in Texas, I think your next step is to take the association to small claims court. You would send a brief, concise, polite but firm demand letter first.




Almost a year later, though? That is what my problem is. I couldn't do this last year, the late fees kept piling, I paid it to make them stop.
AugustinD


Posts:4160


10/09/2020 10:07 AM  
I hear you, about it being a year later. Asking for the records cannot hurt. If you are considering going the small claims court route, the court may not appreciate your waiting a year. I bet you are still within the statute of limitations.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/09/2020 10:08 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 10/09/2020 8:52 AM
Also, your Condo is subject to TPC 82.102 (a)(12)-(21), (f), and (g). Fines have to be reasonable. You must be given a hearing. More.

Importantly, from TPC 82.102 (a) (12)'s reference to (d):
====Start excerpt===
(d) Before an association may charge the unit owner for property damage for which the unit owner is liable or levy a fine for violation of the declaration, bylaws, or rules, the association shall give to the unit owner a written notice that:

(1) describes the violation or property damage and states the amount of the proposed fine or damage charge;

(2) states that not later than the 30th day after the date of the notice, the unit owner may request a hearing before the board to contest the fine or damage charge; and

(3) allows the unit owner a reasonable time, by a specified date, to cure the violation and avoid the fine unless the unit owner was given notice and a reasonable opportunity to cure a similar violation within the preceding 12 months.
====end excerpt===

I believe any of the above not done is grounds for your contesting the fine in small claims court.

Nationwide the courts do expect condos to respect due process covenants, rules and regulations, and statutes for condos.




I don't know what they sent or didn't. I was in and out of the hospital. I remember a notice of some sort, but not whether it gave me a chance to cure, or to notify me of my right to a hearing.

I would have to ask them to show me what they sent.

Thus far, the new BOD is refusing to communicate the same way the prior one did. A simple blanket 'no', ignoring the detail.

I replied (via email) that I have a right to the receipts/invoices and I want to see them. This has been ignored.

That I know for a fact I was never shown. Only charges they levied, written up by the CM.

I am willing to spend more than what I am owed if I have to, or at a minimum require them to pay the association's attorney more than what is owed to me if they continue to refuse to even credit me for over-charging. For the Principle. This is not how people should be treated.

Texas law and our by-laws do not have exemptions for being extraordinarily irritated with an HOA member.

Thank you for responding to my actual question!
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:10017


10/09/2020 11:50 AM  
Jen

It was your episode. Is thee amount so large that you cannot just pay up and move on?
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/09/2020 12:03 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 10/09/2020 11:50 AM
Jen

It was your episode. Is thee amount so large that you cannot just pay up and move on?




Can I afford to let them steal this amount from me? Yes. Do I intend to? No. The maintenance lady is here now to paint my whole door properly. They REALLY want to keep that $80. I wanted to pay my guy, but at least if the door is done properly, that is something.

These people should be able to look at the charges and see that no, it didn't cost $40 for poop bas, that wasn't cool, enjoy a credit on next month's dues.

Instead I got a cut 'no'. Again. No communication that they would address the door. That might not have been decided on until my follow up email asking for receipts. Or maybe the one after that asking for the name and contact information of their attorney.

It's sad I have to be that way to motivate them.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/09/2020 1:41 PM  
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/09/2020 7:04 AM
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/09/2020 6:03 AM
Who is everyone? The maintenance lady and a guy who lives here cleaned up the debris in the parking lot. Is that what you mean? He offered to me directly to do that at no charge because that is the sort of guy he is.

The lady who works here is paid minimum wage or barely above that. It took under half an hour. Not $60 worth.




You missed my point entirely. I'll give you an example. You did something that required action. Who was it reported to? A property manager or Board member? How much time did that person spend on the phone? Did they have to call other Board members and discuss the situation? If so, how much time did they spend? The maintenance lady you spoke of lost 30 minutes of time dealing with her normal duties instead of dealing with this nonsense. What's that value? The person who painted your door had to go find the paint and take the time to come to your place to do the work. What's that worth? I could go on but hopefully you get my point.

In our community the minimum fine is equal to one hour of whatever the current hourly rate is of our property manager. The fact that you had a meltdown and have a fought for a year overly a relatively minor fine speaks volumes about you.




I haven't fought for over a year. I took up the matter again after a year with a new BOD. The prior board would not discuss or provide documentation.

I understand time was spent on me. That does not excuse gouging. Every BOD we have seems to have no concern for our docs or Texas law and that isn't ok. It REALLY isn't ok for the current board, which has a member who has fought tooth and nail for over a decade, led a civil war to BE on the board and her most favorite thing to harp on is following our docs and the state laws. Now is her chance to do that.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:10017


10/09/2020 1:45 PM  
Jen

What is the bottom line amount they say you owe or is it you paid and are no objecting to the cost?
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/09/2020 3:10 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 10/09/2020 1:45 PM
Jen

What is the bottom line amount they say you owe or is it you paid and are no objecting to the cost?




I paid to make the late fees stop, and made that clear at the time. At no time did I agree with the charges.

Some here think I am the ahole. The association needs $80 so badly they need to gouge me? No. We're in trouble with money, but not because of me. Because of BOD actions/inaction to the tune of tens of thousands.

Quick to seize upon a person who was ill, who could have asked and been granted reasonable accommodation under the ADA, but I haven't gone there, to grab this amount? Deplorable.

They grant hardship requests all the time. Other associations may not, ours does, but wants to treat me poorly because my hardship is one that carries a stigma. There are people here who don't pay dues because they don't FEEL like it. Deals are struck to reduce massive overdue bills just out of business sense, no hardship on the part of the owner, which is in conflict with our by-laws. But they do it. Why so hard nosed with me?

I was an easy target because I was physically and mentally depleted at the end of this episode. I could barely lift my head off the pillow, much less think well. They took advantage, and that is gross.

It is not their responsibility to care that I couldn't lift my head off my pillow, but it was/is their responsibility to read, understand, and adhere to our docs and TX state law.
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:134


10/09/2020 3:57 PM  
The statute of limitations in Texas for breach of contract is four years and for torts is generally two years.

So if you want to take the HOA to small claims court, you may do so.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9649


10/09/2020 8:27 PM  
But what for? No damages have occured yet. Just because think over charging does not mean damages. What is the award. The amount owed. Which is what 80 dollars?

Former HOA President
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3279


10/09/2020 8:31 PM  
Dead end.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/09/2020 11:49 PM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 10/09/2020 8:31 PM
Dead end.




Not necessarily. At a minimum, my door is being funny painted. :-)

Perhaps after a demand letter they will refund the excessive amounts charged.

How much do they want to waste on their attorney over this?
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9649


10/10/2020 4:13 AM  
How much actual over charged again? I would pay someone $20 to do this. Plus a gallon of paint is about $30 even if did nottake a gallon. Plus paint supplies brushes another $10. So that is $60. Do yiu know how much a professional painter charges per hour? Technically the HOA should only be hiring licensed and insured vendors. Which some can charge 50 - 100 $ an hour. Thsy would not hire gour person unless already an employee. It is extra work. So they can pay extra.

You are so out of touch

Former HOA President
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/10/2020 5:07 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/10/2020 4:13 AM
How much actual over charged again? I would pay someone $20 to do this. Plus a gallon of paint is about $30 even if did nottake a gallon. Plus paint supplies brushes another $10. So that is $60. Do yiu know how much a professional painter charges per hour? Technically the HOA should only be hiring licensed and insured vendors. Which some can charge 50 - 100 $ an hour. Thsy would not hire gour person unless already an employee. It is extra work. So they can pay extra.

You are so out of touch



You fail to comprehend English and what our by-laws say. Actual expenses incurred. A board member partially painted the door. That cost the association only the price of the paint. They may not legally, per our bylaws, charge what a pro would charge and then use free labor.

Now, the maintenance lady who makes minimum wage or barely above that it is going to do it. Not a professional painter. And I happen to know who they'd hire as a professional painter. The same guy I use. Who would not charge anywhere near $80 including paint! He keeps gallons of that color all the time. For the insides of our doors, and the outsides of patio storage doors. Since he mainly works directly for owners. He painted the inside of my door for $20 including paint. The outside would be the same if they would LET me cure it myself.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9649


10/10/2020 5:16 AM  
You know the board member did this for "free"? Just because they VOLUNTEER to be on the board does NOT mean they work for "free" on doing work like this.

We had a board member who bid on jobs. We'd pay him around $50 per job. Volunteer on a board does NOT mean volunteer on doing a function.

I do not see where this is an excessive expenses.

BTW: What were the fines for?

Former HOA President
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3279


10/10/2020 6:02 AM  
Dead end.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/10/2020 6:13 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/10/2020 5:16 AM
You know the board member did this for "free"? Just because they VOLUNTEER to be on the board does NOT mean they work for "free" on doing work like this.

We had a board member who bid on jobs. We'd pay him around $50 per job. Volunteer on a board does NOT mean volunteer on doing a function.

I do not see where this is an excessive expenses.

BTW: What were the fines for?



Our board members are not allowed to accept compensation. It's against TX law.

The board member is not a contractor who bid on the job, lol. She did what anyone could do - painted over the graffitti. She did not repaint the entire door. Paining only over the graffiti is not sufficient, now there is that new pait mismatching with the old, some of the black from the spray paint can still be seen, she didn't get it off the peephole.

I know you don't see the excesive expense. Because you always make thinks up to justify your made up opinions on how HOAs are run even in your own state, much less other states you know nothing about, and never remember there are POAs and COAs and so forth governed by different laws.

You think every HOA in the US is just like yours, and you don't even know your very well based on your posting history. But you are quite entertaining, there is that.

What are the fines for? Again with the lack of reading comprehension. Spray paint the front door (community property) fine. Debris in the parking lot. $60 clean up, $50 fine. The maintenance lady was here today I asked her you swept that up, right? Yes. Did they pay you $60? She busted up laughing. She did it as part of her job at her usual very low rate of pay and it took under 30 minutes. A volunteer even helped her. We have a retired man that helps her all day for free because he likes to.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9649


10/10/2020 7:53 AM  
How much you going to sue for? How much does it cost to file a small claims? You do realize if you sue your HOA your suing yourself and your neighbors. You are forcing the HOA to hire a lawyer to defend itself in court or atleast pay someone to do it as a corporation. Oh and that charge? They can come back and make you pay that as well. The court decides who pays the expense. Plus if it finds the case ludicrous they can put you on the hook for the HOA's court bill.

Oh and the court can ONLY make you "Whole". Which means you can't win more than what you think should have been charged. So with filing costs and you didn't pay any damages to sue for, you basically if you win getting maybe a $20.

$80 seems pretty reasonable amount to pay for this. It isn't something out of range our HOA would also pay for the same thing. Plus court most likely will not either. Plus since you have not even paid that amount it's not "damages". Your just going to "win" what you owe the HOA. Talk about not a "win".

This is what most call a "Peric" victory...

Former HOA President
BillH10
(Texas)

Posts:565


10/10/2020 8:40 AM  
Jennifer

Board members in Texas may not accept compensation for the performance of their duties and responsibilities as a member of the Board.

A Board member may accept (and be paid or reimbursed) as follows:

1. Reimbursement of expenses incurred in the performance of their responsibilities, including mileage, meeting expenses, etc.
2. Reimbursement for out of pocket expenses, such as reproduction or the cost of a widget at Home Depot
3. Compensation for labor and other services provided to the Association under a contract. This situation must be managed very carefully to ensure competitive bidding takes place and everything is arms length.
4. Probably compensation for 'handy-man' type services such as applying paint to your front door.

If the Association was billed for the amounts which were charged to your account, your account was subsequently debited the the actual expenses billed to the Association. The amount charged to you is not what you think should have or could have been charged, it is the amount which was charged.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:10017


10/10/2020 11:39 AM  
Jen

Enough rambling. Do you presently owe any money other than your dues?
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:134


10/10/2020 2:20 PM  
Jennifer, it's important to try to get along with people. And if other people are wrong, pick your battles carefully.

You've done a lot of things that would make enemies in any situation. If I were you, I'd start trying to get along with the HOA. Suing or haggling over a small amount of money like this will only inflame things and make a bad situation worse. I wouldn't do that if I were you; rather, I'd start behaving in a way that would start making friends. You'd come out ahead in the long run by doing that.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:10017


10/10/2020 2:37 PM  
Crazy is as crazy does.
AugustinD


Posts:4160


10/10/2020 3:06 PM  
The only problem I see is that JenniferG11 waited a year. I tend to think this thread is maybe her wanting some validation on the original issue of the costs she was assessed. She has it from me. But on the main issue of this thread, to me waiting a year greatly diminishes the validity of her complaint.

JenniferG11, I advise letting this go but being ready for the next time an inappropriate amount is assessed to you. Then you should act promptly, because I think it's guaranteed other abuses are happening. Otherwise I agree generally with ChrisE8's points.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:1316


10/10/2020 3:12 PM  
Pyrrhic.

("Thank you, Dr. Language."
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/10/2020 5:22 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 10/10/2020 3:06 PM
The only problem I see is that JenniferG11 waited a year. I tend to think this thread is maybe her wanting some validation on the original issue of the costs she was assessed. She has it from me. But on the main issue of this thread, to me waiting a year greatly diminishes the validity of her complaint.

JenniferG11, I advise letting this go but being ready for the next time an inappropriate amount is assessed to you. Then you should act promptly, because I think it's guaranteed other abuses are happening. Otherwise I agree generally with ChrisE8's points.



Well, I was waiting for a new board.

We have an entirely new board, so I doubt abuses are going on regularly. The pior board was absolutely horrible, had no regard for rules and laws, just did as they pleased.Thjey wouldn't allow us to come to meetings, as TX law demands, wouldn't let us see financials that some wanted to despite thousands spent on their attorney telling them they have to.

When I asked for receipts it was just the CM writing X amount for X event. No actual receipt or invoice. They thought it was fine to just make numbers up.

The new board has a chance to rectify this situation. If I owed them money from a year ago, I'd still owe it, right? Same in reverse. They owe me money, and it's more than $80. $60 clean up times two is for a minimum wage employee and a volunteer to seep up some stuff rom the parking lot. $40 for the dog bags, which was super petty to begin with. A small pane of glass I didn't break on purpose. A couple other things I'd have to go back and look at, and then the fines. All told, it's $600. I'm not letting that go. I'm not.

There are people who everyday are a pain in the ass to the HOA and take up their time bitching and complaining about everything under the sun, asking for things all the time. A current member of the board harassed so much she was barred from entering the office or contacting the CM or any board member. She wanted to oversee every time the HOA spent $50 for the past decade.

I am not the petty one here. I have lived here 15 years I never complain about anything, ask for anything, or bother anyone. I pay my dues and follow the rules. I had a medical crisis. To treat me this way over it is deplorable.
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:391


10/10/2020 5:42 PM  
So instead of going after the old Board that supposedly mistreated you, you decided to go after the new Board and teach them a lesson for the actions of the old Board. Makes perfect sense to me.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/10/2020 6:03 PM  
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/10/2020 5:42 PM
So instead of going after the old Board that supposedly mistreated you, you decided to go after the new Board and teach them a lesson for the actions of the old Board. Makes perfect sense to me.




It's not 'going after' anyone to ask them to please rectify my account. A little bit of their time to go over the charges and see that yeah, this isn't right, this isn't legal, the HOA can only charge for expenses incurred.

One of them already knew. He's the husband of my friend who was really mad about it. He may not know it wasn't legal, but he knew I was excessively charged.

I already said that at the beginning I could not do anything mentally. I could not, literally could not, research to discover the charges were actually illegal. I thought oh, they can probably charge 'retail' and then do it however they want. And went back to bed. I still objected in writing, but I couldn't formulate a legal basis for it. Took me 5 minutes to go find that in the by-laws now that my brain works again.

I had just endured a months long trauma. I needed the late fees to stop. They took advantage of me in that way. I am pretty sure TX law requires that late fees not be levied on amounts under dispute, something I did mention in my emails, but they didn't care, never cared about laws.

So I was not JUST waiting for a new board. Given the combination of my physical and mental capability being at next to zero and a BOD who would only respond to a suit, I paid to make the late fees stop to take up another day. When I felt better. ABLE. And then the election came and I thought ok, a new board that will care about laws, cool. I can get my situation rectified.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/10/2020 6:13 PM  
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/10/2020 5:42 PM
So instead of going after the old Board that supposedly mistreated you, you decided to go after the new Board and teach them a lesson for the actions of the old Board. Makes perfect sense to me.



They are also mistreating me to not even look at it. I got a curt 'We know you feel the charges were unjust, but they are due and payable'. That doesn't even make sense. It's paid. So they didn't even take a moment to review anything.

I'm within the statute of limitations to contest this. Boards have to deal with mistakes from prior boards all the time. It's one thing they bitch about all the time. It's part of the gig. This is not a huge ask on my part. Change the charges from inflated amounts to actual expenses incurred.

If it were me I would just erase doggy bags. My God. That was petty and stupid. $40 for bags and a $50 fine. $90 to unroll some doggy bags. That are there for us to take as many as we want. I always took that many just to keep inside.

After that it is not a time consuming endeavor to see that it didn't cost $80 to do the door. After a second email they did decide to paint the door fully and properly, at least.

It's not time consuming to read my email stating that .5 hours at minimum wage to sweep up the parking lot doesn't come to $60. You're comprehending that quickly, right? And there are two of those, so change that to one hour at her hourly rate, the maintenance lady, easy peasy.

They do not get to say f her, she was such a pain in the ass and we don't care about legal either. And if they want to, I will show them a different kind of pain in the ass. You get what you give.

GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3279


10/10/2020 8:40 PM  
Dead end.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/11/2020 12:22 AM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 10/10/2020 8:40 PM
Dead end.




It's not the end of it. They aren't keeping this money. They can credit me or spend it on their attorney.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9649


10/11/2020 4:25 AM  
Who is this "They"? Oh yeah it is YOU and your neighbors. Have fun suing yourself and your neighbors for a reasonable charge that you still did not pay to even have damages...

Think we are done here because someone just wants to beat a dead horse till it says what they want to hear...

Former HOA President
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/11/2020 5:15 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/11/2020 4:25 AM
Who is this "They"? Oh yeah it is YOU and your neighbors. Have fun suing yourself and your neighbors for a reasonable charge that you still did not pay to even have damages...

Think we are done here because someone just wants to beat a dead horse till it says what they want to hear...



I did pay it. $600. Your lack of reading comprehension is showing again.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9649


10/11/2020 5:19 AM  
Those are Fines were they not? Your posts are very confusing. You say paid fines but the repairs were separate. Still do not see where the HOA was being unreasonable. You had graffiti and they cleaned it up. They have to charge someone. That person was you.

Former HOA President
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/11/2020 5:33 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/11/2020 5:19 AM
Those are Fines were they not? Your posts are very confusing. You say paid fines but the repairs were separate. Still do not see where the HOA was being unreasonable. You had graffiti and they cleaned it up. They have to charge someone. That person was you.



I don't know what is hard for you to understand about laws. They may not charge more than they actually spent. There was no labor cost to paining over the graffiti.

The $600 is a combination of excessive charges for damages, fines per occurrence, and late fees. What boggles your mind about that?
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3279


10/11/2020 5:40 AM  
Dead end.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:1316


10/11/2020 8:08 AM  
Speaking as a former board member and completely from the outside:

* I'd be annoyed if an apparently settled expense from a previous year suddenly erupted. That year's books are closed, done and dusted, and supporting documentation has been filed away. Any audits that were required are probably done. It would be a pain in the patoot to dig up all of this information, newbie board members aren't going to know what the issue is about, and people who did the work may no longer be employed. I'd be tempted to say "see you in court" too.

* Re: small jobs, it's not unusual for these to have what appear to be high charges. Many contractors don't want to be bothered with the small stuff, but if they want to remain on the association's list of companies that are asked to bid on jobs, they'll bid on the piddly stuff but at a higher cost. Sometimes the high bidder gets the job anyway despite their best efforts at avoiding it. Without seeing all of the supporting documentation, we're just speculating.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9649


10/11/2020 8:36 AM  
May I add that since I am not an elitist someone isn't going to do these jobs at minimum wage. It's a skilled job. Plus most Professional businesses do not pay minimum wage for such work. No one would do it. Plus let's think about this. Minimum wage is around $7.25 an hour. Painting a door properly would take a few hours. Minimum 2 hours because need 1st coat to dry and then do a 2nd coat.

If properly done, the door would need to come off, sanded, and paint applied. That would need to dry and 2nd coat applied. Having done this myself on a few occasions. It does take about 3 hours. So at minimum wage is 21.75. So even if I offered someone $20 to do it that is still a "deal".

Former HOA President
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/11/2020 9:23 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/11/2020 8:36 AM
May I add that since I am not an elitist someone isn't going to do these jobs at minimum wage. It's a skilled job. Plus most Professional businesses do not pay minimum wage for such work. No one would do it. Plus let's think about this. Minimum wage is around $7.25 an hour. Painting a door properly would take a few hours. Minimum 2 hours because need 1st coat to dry and then do a 2nd coat.

If properly done, the door would need to come off, sanded, and paint applied. That would need to dry and 2nd coat applied. Having done this myself on a few occasions. It does take about 3 hours. So at minimum wage is 21.75. So even if I offered someone $20 to do it that is still a "deal".




Our maintenance lady has a low wage, I already told you that, and that is who they sent to evaluate the door for a full painting the other day. That is who they are going to have do it. That is not who did the partial paint job, just to cover the grafiti, which I already told you also. A board member did it Zero labor cost. It doesn't matter what you would do, it matters what they did. Our maintenance lady only gets about $15/hour.

She won't be getting paid for this while paint is drying, she will be doing something else for the association. They aren't hiring a contractor. They are using our regular staff. All that has been done so far is painting over the graffiti by a volunteer, -0- dollars spent, $8- charged and paid.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/11/2020 9:40 AM  
Posted By CathyA3 on 10/11/2020 8:08 AM
Speaking as a former board member and completely from the outside:

* I'd be annoyed if an apparently settled expense from a previous year suddenly erupted. That year's books are closed, done and dusted, and supporting documentation has been filed away. Any audits that were required are probably done. It would be a pain in the patoot to dig up all of this information, newbie board members aren't going to know what the issue is about, and people who did the work may no longer be employed. I'd be tempted to say "see you in court" too.

* Re: small jobs, it's not unusual for these to have what appear to be high charges. Many contractors don't want to be bothered with the small stuff, but if they want to remain on the association's list of companies that are asked to bid on jobs, they'll bid on the piddly stuff but at a higher cost. Sometimes the high bidder gets the job anyway despite their best efforts at avoiding it. Without seeing all of the supporting documentation, we're just speculating.



I am not speculating. Contractors are not hired for piddly jobs. The maintenance lady on staff does them. They use her to do everything she can do at a low wage. She was not even sent to do this, though, a board member opted to do it herself at no charge to the association. It is common here for board members to chip in free labor on a variety of things.

We have the same management company. BODs have to deal with issues created by prior boards all the time. I am sorry the prior board was so sloppy and didn't bother to consult and follow our by-laws regarding 'bill-backs' as the CM calls them, but it isn't my fault.

I requested many times for proper documentation and never got it. I have a hodgepodge of handwritten charges made up by the board or the CM sent in separate emails. Despite repeated requests I still do not have a listing of what all charges were for, what dates, etc. I was left to guess which fine was for what offense. That is gross incompetence on the part of the prior CM, which again is something new CMs have to deal with all of the time.

I am not going to just say ok, keep a few hundred dollars of mine because I want to be such a super nice person to people who are not super nice to ME. They all know all about it, believe me. Everyone on the current board was part of a group campaigning together to be the new BOD. My friend's husband is on the board. He in particular knows about the excess charges because his wife was steaming mad about them at the time. Said I should buy a roll of dog waste bags and go set them in the office and say there, now take off that $40. She wanted to act as my proxy until she flipped out on them over something and there was no way they were going to want to hear from her and that be helpful to me.

She uses the same handyman as I do and screamed about the $80 saying he would have done it for $20. Which is true. And the association can use him too. Sometimes does. He lives on property, he WILL do piddly jobs. He would have done it at NO charge just to help me avoid penalty, if they had talked to him about it. My Aunt would have done it at no charge. She came to do the first clean up herself to avoid charges. They knew I was not able to cure anything, do anything.

If you had an owner incapacitated by a coma would you keep sending her letters and expecting her to cure violations or would you work with family who came and asked you to? My Aunt came and did that. My sister came and did that. To no avail.

They were irritated with my form of incapacitation, which is understandable, but it simply is not legal the way they nailed me to the wall on charges. Irritated or not.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3279


10/11/2020 10:05 AM  
OK, then.

Run for the Board.

Have the Board recalled.

Then run for the Board.

Dead End.
AugustinD


Posts:4160


10/11/2020 10:21 AM  
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/11/2020 9:40 AM
I requested many times for proper documentation and never got it. [snippage] I am not going to just say ok, keep a few hundred dollars of mine [snip for brevity]
I get it: You are not going to put up with this. So what is your next step?
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/11/2020 10:22 AM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 10/11/2020 10:05 AM
OK, then.

Run for the Board.

Have the Board recalled.

Then run for the Board.

Dead End.



lol never would I deal with what they do. Someone covered one board member's car with dog poop. I guess they were really mad about something.......the undiagnosed and untreated are all around us.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9649


10/11/2020 11:34 AM  
It has been established that Jennifer does have a diagnosed mental issue. It's pretty clear from multiple posts as well. So to give mental health issues the respect it deserves I've got to step back. We are here to help after all but we can't those who can't see or accept it.

Sorry it's going to a painful lesson for Jennifer and her HOA to learn. All I can do is nod my head and eat popcorn in the background.

Former HOA President
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/11/2020 7:20 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 10/11/2020 10:21 AM
Posted By JenniferG11 on 10/11/2020 9:40 AM
I requested many times for proper documentation and never got it. [snippage] I am not going to just say ok, keep a few hundred dollars of mine [snip for brevity]
I get it: You are not going to put up with this. So what is your next step?



I guess a demand letter to properly account for all that was charged to me if it isn't sent at my more informal email request.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3279


10/11/2020 8:39 PM  
Dead end.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:662


10/20/2020 4:38 AM  
I want sent a receipt for doggy waste bags. We have these stations, where one is free to take as many as they would like. I unrolled some. It would be impossible to unroll $40 worth. They are 5 cents each.

I discovered our actual cost this way: I asked for a receipt and I was sent one showing that a roll of doggy bags is $43. So I googled the name of the item. Fido whatever from HD supply. That is for 50 of the large black liners for the waste cans the used little doggy waste bags go into. So I went to their website and see that little doggy waste bags are 3,000 for $169 so maybe I unrolled $1 worth.

This is so petty to begin with. I pulled out a doggy bag and walked with it trailing behind me until it 'broke'. (They are meant to tear off obviously). They were not damaged, even.

I can't believe they would send this invoice trying to say that is the right one. At first I was like we pay almost $1 per doggy bag? How stupid is that?

So did the person who sent that really believe we pay $1 per or just trying to trick me?

It said LINERS, that was my clue, how was it not hers?

So I emailed this information back to them. I didn't do anything regarding these large black waste can liners, wrong invoice. Gave a link to the site of the supply company we use to show what the little waste bags cost. 5 cents each. So $1, maybe $2, but it broke pretty quickly, and I brought what was in my hand into my unit to...........use for the dog! We can take as many as we like.

I reiterated that no labor cost was spent on painting my door and that the maintenance lady didn't spend 10 hours cleaning the parking lot, as the charge to me would reflect.

No answer. God forbid I owe them a penny, but they can't be bothered to rectify this issue.


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Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Can this be rectified almost a year later? TX COA



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