Get 1 year of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Thursday, September 24, 2020











HOATalk is a free service of Community123.com:

Easy to use website tools to help your board
Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.
Subject: Covid-19 CARES ACT
Prev Next
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Author Messages
JonW3
(Arizona)

Posts:5


09/01/2020 6:54 PM  
Have any of you filed for the covid-19 cares act. I'm new to our board and having concerns about our fellow board members. I'll give you some basic info on my situation. Our is a non profit and the board does not get paid. Wich I think is great. If it's true. we contract our management from a big management company Wich we pay the manager salary out of community funds. Ever since covid-19 has become an epidemic we have doubled our issuance of violations.The BOD budget is set for 1,200.$ a month last month we received 67k$ in violations. Then the other BOD approved our management company to apply for the covid-19 cares act. Well they got approved and added the money to our budget. I don't know why the management company would do that. I have a feeling I'm gonna get voted off the BOD since I represent the best interest of community and not the management. They are the one who runs the everything and when I try to ask questions I feel I'm bullied by the property manager by saying phrases like "you don't know how this works" or " you wouldn't know how to run this community with out me". Last I knew the BOD is supposed to run the community not the property manager, plus certain members of BOD have secret meetings with out the rest of board to make quorum. They discuss certain homeowners to target and harrass and issue violations for items that are not in violation. I try to talk to fellow Board members but get a cold shoulder. I love my community and representing it. But I feel like something shady is going on and I personally don't want to get caught up in some kind of bad activities for being on the board. Any info would be greatfully appreciated.
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:1015


09/01/2020 8:29 PM  
For what reason(s) did you double your violations?
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:1015


09/01/2020 8:30 PM  
I was told by our PM that HOA's do not qualify for CARES Act.
JonW3
(Arizona)

Posts:5


09/01/2020 9:29 PM  
It was time to vote in 2 new board members. An I happened to be one of them. From the chatter I read about on our social media page it was to rig the elections so very limited people are eligible to vote in new board members. All of the candidates were sent fines for things like trees that are not on their property. Garbage cans out on collection day and the other one her assessment payment was set up on autopay. An I guess when they raised assessment fees 6 months ago her autopay was sending the wrong amount and she never knew about it until running. I also got hit with some violations but none were fines while I was running. This is why I have a feeling of shady hoa practices going on and don't want to be held liable for it. And also feel like they are gonna vote me out so they can bring in a replacement of their choosing without community involvement. That is why I ran for the board. They have done that in the past before I was on the board.I am very active in my community and social with alot of members. So I kinda have the communities best interest. After reviewing some financials there was alot of things that doesn't make sense Wich is how I spotted the CARES ACT on our budget. But no one will answer any questions about it. Just sea like mismanagement of community funds.
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:136


09/01/2020 9:56 PM  
Unless your manager is a direct employee of YOUR association, you or the management company DO NOT qualify under the CARES ACT. Both parties are gaming the system.

Your elections are being rigged.

I am curious about your numbers? $1200.00 monthly income and now $67K in fines. You know they will have to pay federal taxes on that income, because you have no expenses to offset.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9530


09/02/2020 4:28 AM  
Your HOA itself is a non-profit corporation. It does NOT qualify for the Covid Care act. However, if your MC is a paid contractor and their own business, then they may themselves. They are a paid company the HOA pays to run things.

Is your HOA owner or developer owned? Do not see anything directly wrong with the violations/fines if they are occurring. That is what the HOA is to do when there are violations is it not?

I am just getting one side of the story or piece of the pie. Not seeing or hearing the full story on this. Need more details than views.

Former HOA President
MarkM19
(Texas)

Posts:640


09/02/2020 8:42 AM  
Jon,
Couple of things that caught my eye in you original post.

#1 Anyone who wants to become a Board member should be aware of a dues increase that happened 6 months ago. If they are not aware they clearly do not know much or have cared in the past about the HOA they are living in.

#2 The jump in fines seems astounding. Typically HOs must get a few warning or curtesy notes prior to the fines being sent out. This normally takes months.

#3 I agree that there seems to be some shady stuff going on and the PMC may be so used to calling the shots that they do not take direction from the Board. If 1 or 2 Board members are in with them this should be called out.

Tuff road you are about to travel on.
JonW3
(Arizona)

Posts:5


09/03/2020 8:09 AM  
Thanks for the info guys. I think I'm gonna step down from the board. I have seen a couple times already to where they are not giving members the right to appeal properly and they are just handing out denial letters for people that don't get a chance to show evidence at appeal meetings. Or they aren't giving members invites to attend meeting they are appealing. I'm not gonna break the laws just by trying to stay on the board.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3105


09/03/2020 8:19 AM  
Jon,

Based on what you have said, I would consider contacting the governing agency in your state; and, perhaps, to notify the Federal Treasury of the Board's attempt to collect CARE money as a not-for-profit.
AugustinD


Posts:3889


09/03/2020 9:14 AM  
Posted By JonW3 on 09/01/2020 6:54 PM
Then the other BOD approved our management company to apply for the covid-19 cares act. Well they got approved and added the money to our budget. I don't know why the management company would do that.
From my reading and as far as Thee Law is concerned, the jury is still out as to whether HOAs/Condos qualify for the PPP part of the CARES Act.

This site says only 501(c)(3) nonprofits qualify: https://www.hoalawblog.com/federal-government-does-not-cares-and-no-ppp-and-little-stimulus-to-help-hoas-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/ Rarely are HOAs/Condos 501(c)(3) nonprofits.

But this site points out that it was an interpretation by the Small Business Administration that eliminated condos/HOAs from eligibility for the CARES Act: https://www.hoalawblog.com/federal-government-does-not-cares-and-no-ppp-and-little-stimulus-to-help-hoas-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/ . The latter site appears to discourage HOAs/condos from applying for CARES Act help. Still.

An interpretation by a government agency, tasked with implementing Congress-passed and President signed legislation, is not at all the same as the legislation itself. A court would have to resolve any dispute over the interpretation of the legislation. It happens a lot.

I have seen this with other legislation passed in the interests of helping those suffering from the results of the pandemic. In my specific experience with another aspect of pandemic financial relief legislation, executive branch agencies are flat-out lying about some aspects of the legislation. This is causing people to miss out on opportunities.

I would not use this HOA's Board's pursuit of CARES Act help as a reason to resign.





AugustinD


Posts:3889


09/03/2020 9:21 AM  
More on how different condo/co-op law firms are interpreting the CARES Act PPP section differently:
https://cooperator.com/article/co-ops-condos-hoas-ppp-loans/full
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3105


09/03/2020 9:54 AM  
I would, given the other sorts of things apparently happening, absolutely resign from this board.
AugustinD


Posts:3889


09/03/2020 10:00 AM  
Posted By JonW3 on 09/01/2020 9:29 PM
And also feel like they are gonna vote me out so they can bring in a replacement of their choosing without community involvement.
Are you aware that, nationwide, HOA governing documents and state statutes nearly always provide only one way to remove an elected director from a board? This is by a vote of the membership.

I hear you about the seemingly improper fines, but given that you seem to think the board can remove a properly elected director (when it's almost guaranteed it cannot), I am concerned about your understanding of other aspects of the HOA.
JonW3
(Arizona)

Posts:5


09/04/2020 1:30 PM  
It's not that I think they can remove a board member it's I know they have done it in the past. The members don't get a chance for much input. Or involvement with the decisions of our board. from The CM and president of the board make their own rules as they go. They constantly break our own CC&RS and planned community act guidelines all the time. The CM is wanting to hold a executive meeting to form the 2021 budget and to raise assessment fees without any member involvement. They think if they hold executive meetings the members can't request meeting minutes from the executive meetings. Seems shady to me.
AugustinD


Posts:3889


09/04/2020 1:54 PM  
Posted By JonW3 on 09/04/2020 1:30 PM
It's not that I think they can remove a board member it's I know they have done it in the past.
This board has removed a duly elected director from his or her seat? If I were an owner at your HOA, I might be talking lawsuit.

Posted By JonW3 on 09/04/2020 1:30 PM

The members don't get a chance for much input. Or involvement with the decisions of our board. from The CM and president of the board make their own rules as they go. They constantly break our own CC&RS and planned community act guidelines all the time. The CM is wanting to hold a executive meeting to form the 2021 budget and to raise assessment fees without any member involvement. They think if they hold executive meetings the members can't request meeting minutes from the executive meetings. Seems shady to me.
Last I heard Arizona was one of the many states crystal clear in its laws that board meetings on subjects like assessment increases need to be open to members. (Though I am not sure the Board must permit members to speak at its meetings.) Regardless, if these meetings are not open to members, I might be talking lawsuit.
AugustinD


Posts:3889


09/04/2020 2:03 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 09/04/2020 1:54 PM
If I were an owner at your HOA, I might be talking lawsuit.
Strike this. I'd do what Arizona statutes say to do: Start the complaint process with the Arizona Department of Real Estate. See https://azre.gov/consumers/hoa .
JonW3
(Arizona)

Posts:5


09/08/2020 3:31 PM  
Ok so I finally was able to get some info as to why they applied for the cares act credit. Supposedly it's because they had to shut down our common areas and playgrounds, when our state went on lockdown during the pandemic. They don't hold any events for members, what would give them the right to apply for it shutting down our playgrounds does not limit any type of revinue from assessments. Also they have advised our landscaping contractor to limit cleaning/maintaining our common areas while shut down during lockdown.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7496


09/08/2020 6:06 PM  
We sometimes have knowledgeable posters from AZ, Jon but maybe your subject title didn't interest them.

You've noted many other problem a that don't relate at all to your subject.

What We've learned from other AZ posters i that AZ is indeed an open meeting state. Crafting a budget should in no way be done in executive session, which is reserved for only a very few confidential matters.

AZ also permits owners at open meetings to speak out about every agenda item. Hard to imagine, but I'm pretty hs sure it's the law. It seems to me, Jon, you have a lot of self-eduction to catch up on if you stay on the Board.

A way to protect yourself is to go on record (in the minutes) that you oppose executive session for budget deliberations. Get yourself on record for opposing other bard actions the your KNOW (no think) are illegal.

Does your CM work for a management company? If so, you could contact them and complain that the CM want to break the law and hold budget talks in executive session. Have you, btw, read th contract with your management company?

Meantime, Augustin offers sound advice.
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).



Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.







General Legal Notice:  The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com.  Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship.  Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.  HOATalk is not a licensed attorney, CPA, tax advisor, financial advisor or any other licensed professional.  HOATalk accepts ads from sponsors but does not verify sponsor qualifications nor endorse/guarantee any sponsor's product or service.
Legal Notice For Messages Posted by Sponsoring Attorneys: This message has been prepared by the sponsoring attorney for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send any sponsoring attorney confidential information unless you speak with the sponsoring attorney or an attorney from the sponsoring attorney’s firm and get authorization to send that information to them. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in the firm of the sponsoring attorney. Sponsoring attorneys that post messages here are licensed to practice law in a specific state or states as indicated in their message signature or sponsor’s profile page. (NOTE: A ‘sponsoring attorney’ is an attorney that is a HOATalk.com official sponsor and is identified as such in the posted message or on our sponsor page.)

Copyright HOA Talk.com, A Service of Community123 LLC ( Homeowners Association Discussions )   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement