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Subject: demand letter from hoa attorney
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LaskaS
(Texas)

Posts:412


08/27/2020 5:56 PM  
ok, here goes. ... ..

The president resigned. But he made sure before he resigned to approve the attorney sending me a demand letter that states I am not allowed to enter the property office or clubhouse for any reason. I am not allowed to talk to the manager or employees for any reason..

At the july board meeting, remotely accessed by everyone. Towards the end of the Meeting , out of nowhere, the president makes a motion to prevent me from going into the property office for any reason. The minute I heard what he was doing I objected. The host of the meeting,(the man that owns the company that does our accounting) then somehow disabled my access to the meeting, i couldn't hear what was going on. Noone could hear me.

About an hour later. I receive the proposed minutes of the meeting.
I immediately informed the secretary that I was unable to hear or be heard and that should have been clear. In addition. the motions were made without any notice and without being on the agenda. Also, the board has no authority over an owners right to speech and right to access the common areas.

The remaining board members are completely against everything I say or do. They want me gone at all costs. I have support from many residents and owners though. I receive thank you emails all the time when I send out notifications of what is going on. I stick to the facts and violations of our bylaws.


I responded to the demand letter

with the following.


Attorney M, I am responding to the demand letter sent Aug 26.2020.
I am rejecting the claims and demands in the letter for the following reasons.

1. the motions were made during the july 15th monthly meeting hosted by JD
JD blocked my ability to hear or be heard towards the end of the meeting. I repeatedly tried to rejoin, I was blocked.
I immediately notified the secretary after the meeting by email that jeff had blocked me from hearing or talking.
When all board members are not able to be heard and hear all other board members the meeting does not meet the requirements regarding actions taken at a remotely accessed meeting.

2. The restrictions that the board is attempting to place on me are the direct result of false accusations made against me by the property manager in an effort to save her job. I reject the accusations made by ET(property manager) At the board meeting called to discuss the accusations.. Both the president and treasurer gave first person accounts that called into question the truthfulness and motives behind E's accusations. Thy are the only two board members that interacted with E. They clearly stated she was manipulative and was twisting the facts. According to the treasurer, She has done so repeatedly in order to divide the board. According to president , elizabeth exaggerated her statement regarding me reopening the office door. The door was not bolted closed. It was very easily pulled open. I opened it after elizabeth indicated she was going to show me something on the property only to push me out of the office and try and close the door. I went back in the office and took pictures of the disarray and lack of proper record keeping that was occuring.



3. I have contacted the police and was told that on private property, where i'm an owner. I have as much right to access the common areas an every other owner.
The police also verified that there was no record of any restraining order legally issued, nor a request.
The police also told me that false harassment claims are made all the time. Only the court can issue a restraining order and restraining orders are not given in a neighbor to neighbor dispute based on here say.

4..Regarding the 3 motions you listed in the letter.

Motion 1 regarding my authority as a director to direct the property manager on landscaping issues. The board previously voted to give assign that authority to me. I have no objection to the board taking it away. That I agree is well within the boards authority.

motion 2 stating I am not permitted to enter the office. motion 3 , i am not permitted to speak with any employees. I reject as being unenforceable and outside of the boards authority.

If the board chooses to spend more owner money and have you respond. I approve response through certified email.
Otherwise, I will consider this matter closed .

thank you


The president signed this the day he resigned paperwork stating the new policies the day he resigned.

I just want to make sure that I am solid ground. I have done nothing wrong. The accusations made against me were not true and the actions the board is trying to take now are simply a bullying tactic.
I did call the police to see if the letters threat of trespass is valid. They did say that this is a hoa matter and they have no juridiction.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9533


08/27/2020 6:29 PM  
So would it be better to hear it from the MC whom doesn't want you at their office or the HOA board to tell you? Sounds like the MC can't do it so they ask the HOA to do it as your their member.

From the post you have posted here, not too surprised this has been requested...

Former HOA President
LaskaS
(Texas)

Posts:412


08/27/2020 7:15 PM  
again,, the property manager is an employee of the hoa.. not a separate company.

I only go to the office if i need to put in a work order or request..

I don['t go to the office to visit.


There was no need to pass a policy and add it to the minutes and spend money having the attorney have a letter delivered to me.

Did you not see what i wrote.. the president signed the approval the day he resigned. he hates me.

If I didn't get regular encouragement and thank yous from owners and residents who support my attempts to get the board to follow the bylaws and properly address common area issues i would have given up a long time ago.

This letter from the attorney goes above and beyond. It's one thing for the board infighting and the constant attempts to skirt the bylaws by some board members.


In addition., I believe the policy they passed is meant to humiliate me. I have exposed quite a bit of wrongdoing. I have been consistent from the beginning. Like it or not, we have to follow the bylaws and declaration. However, i get constant pushback by the former president and board members telling me I'm preventing progress.


MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9533


08/27/2020 7:32 PM  
Mmm... Thanks for telling us THEIR opinion of you... I am sure it matches with what they really think. Find that what we think others are thinking isn't. It's what we think of ourselves... A 3rd party looking in not seeing you as anyone's hero or standing up for fellow owner's rights. It's what you want and mad cause your not getting it.

Former HOA President
LaskaS
(Texas)

Posts:412


08/27/2020 10:02 PM  
you've been reading too many old magazines with nonsense back of the page personality tests.

but um,, i guess thanks for the proverb.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9533


08/28/2020 4:37 AM  
Well is it your "job" to do all of this? It is still weird the MC is an "employee" of the HOA. Most HOA's are not like that. MC's are hired out contractors.

Plus because they are employed by the HOA does not mean they work for you. Seems you need to follow the correct lanes of communications. Which does not sound like direct contact with the MC. It sounds like they want people to go through the board first whom will decide how to manage their employee.

Former HOA President
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9877


08/28/2020 9:05 AM  
Laska

Why do I think you were always in the MC's face demanding things?
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:3460


08/28/2020 10:49 AM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/28/2020 9:05 AM
Laska

Why do I think you were always in the MC's face demanding things?




You too? I thought it was just me.

Laska, I realize and appreciate you want to do things decent and in order, but it seems to me you've had post after post after post on clashes with the property manager and your board colleagues. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm beginning to wonder about your approach, as I fear things may escalate where NO ONE will want to serve on the board because they don't want to deal with you, or the now-former president and/or whoever else may rally the neighbors together and move for a special meeting to get rid of YOU.

I don't know if I've suggested an executive session where everyone can put their cards on the table and figure out how to work with each other once and for all (dealing with the property manager is a separate matter), and if not, it's time to do so. The association can't run effectively with everyone at each other throats - you don't have to like each other, but if you're going to work together on this board, find a way to do it. You can't always control what other people do, but you can step back and take a hard look at what you're doing.

And from this point on, I think it might be best to stay away from the property manager - if you have something to say, send someone in your stead, because I don't know if an email or phone call will do the trick without charges and countercharges flying all over the place.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3113


08/28/2020 1:59 PM  
I'll state again, here - if I were on Laska's board, and had to listen to all of this all the time - I would quit.
AugustinD


Posts:3900


08/29/2020 5:01 PM  
Posted By LaskaS on 08/27/2020 5:56 PM
ok, here goes. ... ..

The president resigned. But he made sure before he resigned to approve the attorney sending me a demand letter that states I am not allowed to enter the property office or clubhouse for any reason.
[snip for brevity]
I just want to make sure that I am solid ground.
In my opinion, here is where you are on solid ground:

-- As long as a court has not issued a restraining order prohibiting your being on the condo's common elements, the board has no authority to restrict your movements.

-- As long as a court has not issued a restraining order prohibiting your communications with the manager, then you are free to contact the manager concerning issues of immediate concern to you. However this does not mean you can badger the manager, or order the manager around, or do anything that keeps the manager from attending to her/his other work.

-- The Board needs not only a court order to keep you off common elements and to keep you from exercising other owner rights, it also needs a good reason. If there are no good reasons, then you are on solid ground.

LaskaS, Are you still on the board? If so, this makes a huge difference in how I would respond to the meeting where you were cut off.

I would like to know exactly what the HOA attorney's demand letters asks of you. If you use the common elements or ask the manager a valid question (just as any owner might), what does the HOA attorney threaten?


ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:34


08/31/2020 5:47 PM  
LaskaS, just ignore the demand letter and do whatever you want, as long as you're certain that it's not in violation of the governing documents of your HOA. I wouldn't have bothered responding to it. Just because someone wants to fight doesn't mean that you have to fight. Smile and carry on.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7502


08/31/2020 6:33 PM  
Melissa, it is not common but NOT rare that an HOA hires an "in house manager." Our current CC&Rs prevent it, but when we restate, we'll eliminate that section.

In Laska's case, though, the person doesn't even seem to be a real property mgt., i.e, isn't certified, etc.

Our new property mgr has been here sine early March. I've been to her office 4 times, including twice for a meeting with others. Her office is may 50 yards from my building. Work orders, etc., agenda items, ALL are handled by email.

ThomasK14
(Florida)

Posts:1


09/10/2020 2:55 PM  
I live in a community in Florida ,so here is my opinion of your course of action if you live in florida. Request the invoice for the cost of the Lawyers letter mailed to you. AFTER YOU have the cost of the letter post it on your community bulliten board with a statement that it waA board wastes the members money . FIND members who are willing to serve on the Board and recall the old BOARD with the new members you encouraged to serve....That's it ...you can govern or be governed ..that's the power in a community and the only way to resolve the issue ,Lawyers courts , State administrative enforcement ..will only cost money and waste your time....SO FIND out how much money was wasted on the lawyers letter and then attempt to recall the Board Best ThomasK
LorieS


Posts:0


09/13/2020 6:25 PM  
Same situation happened to me. Same scenario. Property Manager is an employee of the association. When I complained about her (she always ignored my complaints) to the board, all hell broke loose. I was made out to look like I was bat shit crazy. So I refused to go to the office for complaints. For one year, it was strictly email when an issue would come up. When a major issue occurred this past April, and I complained about her behavior again...that was it. She controls the board, and I received a letter that I was only to communicate with the HOA attorney from then on. When I stopped in the office to get a resident complaint form, I was told they could not even hand me that paper. I had to go through the HOA attorney for that. When I complained saying they are misusing HOA funds, the general manager fabricated to the board that I had repeatedly threatened the employees with a lawsuit inside the office and that’s why she got the HOA involved. They have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on the attorney so far over an issue that is less than $1000 lol
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3113


09/13/2020 9:56 PM  
Lorie,

Without detail, I can’t provide an assessment. You have provided some gross generalizations. Are you sure you haven’t burned all your bridges?
LaskaS
(Texas)

Posts:412


09/19/2020 2:08 AM  
Lorie, thank you for posting. There really are manipulative people out there.
The situation you describe sound very similar to the kind of bs that our property manager is pulling.

Augustine, thank you for answering the question.

The attorney's letter basically says that the board passed a resolution that I can not go into the office and can't talk to any employees.
I responded telling him thanks for the notification, The board can pass whatever resoltuions they want. They resolution they passed limited my access to the office etc is unenforceable.

The other 4 board members apparently called a special meeting with the attorney to come up with some method of enforcing their unenforceable resolution. Keep in mind, I haven't been to the office other than 2 times since may31. The first time was in july asking the property manager to post the notice of meeting sign on the day of the meeting. (for 3 months no meeting notices have been given to owners informing them we are still having meetings , they are just being held through zoom).. On that day in July, her response was. " are you supposed to be in the office".

Finally, several owners have come to board meetings and sent emails to board members(remember most of the board members don't live here ) . These emails complained of the exact same things I was complaining about 4 months ago. The property manager doesn't follow through on basic requests. When they follow up a week later, she either apologized profusely for forgetting or gives some reason why she wasn't able to fill out the form. Another week goes by, the owners come back and again ask her what the status is. At this point she either dismisses them and starts accusing them of harassing her, or she will blame the board for not giving her an answer. Mind you, the board hasn't even heard there was an issue.

Things are going to implode quickly. slowly but surely her web of lies is unraveling. It's a definitely train wreck on the horizon and every day little details come out that confirm what I have been saying for months. Two of the remaining 4 board members have contacted me and told me that this month , there will be no excuses or delays. the property manger is now going to be required to utlize the centralized CMMS software that will have all work requests, work orders, property issues, maintenance work properly recorded, assigned and kept in a searchable database. Every board member will be able to view what is going on. every board member will see how many work order requests there are, how long they have been outstanding, etc.
the work order requests are not submitted to the software directly by residents and owners. She will be required to address each request, either by assigning it, scheduling it or sending a response to the requester with information on why it can't be done..
LaskaS
(Texas)

Posts:412


09/19/2020 2:19 AM  
Augustine,

Yes I am on the board, and I am positive that the act of JD(the owner of the management company that does our accounting ) muting me and preventing me from being able to hear is a clear violation of my right to participate.


.

in response to me being on solid ground..

There has been no protective order ore restraining order. How could there be, I haven't done anything that would even come close to anything that would involve the police.

I just can't believe the attorney is allowing this to go on. Of course, He only does what the the board member asks him to. I'm sure if a the board member says. what can the board do if the office manager feels she is being harassed....

the answer an attorney gives obviously dependent on what question is asked. kwim.

augustin, i may try and upload the letter but first black out any identifying information...


AugustinD


Posts:3900


09/19/2020 6:56 AM  
Posted By LaskaS on 09/19/2020 2:19 AM
what can the board do if the office manager feels she is being harassed[?]
Seek a restraining order through the courts. The Board has not done this.

Make sure that when you go to the office that you are not giving orders to management. Only the board as a whole can give orders to management.

I do not need to see the attorney's letter to you. I am acquainted with boards pulling baloney like this. I am also acquainted with one director trying (sometimes unwittingly) to give orders to management. If you go to the manager's office and want to point out that the manager needs to do xyz, then maybe you could say something like, "Didn't the Board instruct you to do xyz?" Then regardless of what the manager says in response, walk out. You have no more authority than this.

Arguably, you have no authority to question the manager's actions when outside a board meeting.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3113


09/19/2020 7:26 AM  
Laska,

I don’t get it ...

Are you directing the management company in any way? This is the pres job, on behalf of the board.

We’re you authorized by the board to direct the management company in any way?

Has the pres told you to stop interacting with the MC?

Have you been warned at board meetings, with broad consent, not to direct the management company?

Were you told, by the board, via a legal vote, to not direct the management company? (this would be a formality at this point)

If, after all of this, you still continued to attempt to direct the management company (other than asking questions about your account, or other generic status of amenities questions), then it seems reasonable the board would seek to restrict your interactions. Imagine the discussion between the pres and the MC ... “...look, this person is disruptive, burns our time, and makes us run around in circles ...”

Think about from the MC perspective ...

Are you burning everyone’s time and making them crazy, Laska?
AugustinD


Posts:3900


09/19/2020 8:05 AM  
I agree with GeorgeS21's points. I appreciate how tactfully and patiently he presented them as well.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9877


09/19/2020 8:52 AM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 09/19/2020 7:26 AM
Laska,

I don’t get it ...

Are you directing the management company in any way? This is the pres job, on behalf of the board.

We’re you authorized by the board to direct the management company in any way?

Has the pres told you to stop interacting with the MC?

Have you been warned at board meetings, with broad consent, not to direct the management company?

Were you told, by the board, via a legal vote, to not direct the management company? (this would be a formality at this point)

If, after all of this, you still continued to attempt to direct the management company (other than asking questions about your account, or other generic status of amenities questions), then it seems reasonable the board would seek to restrict your interactions. Imagine the discussion between the pres and the MC ... “...look, this person is disruptive, burns our time, and makes us run around in circles ...”

Think about from the MC perspective ...

Are you burning everyone’s time and making them crazy, Laska?




Based on her posts. I for one believe she is guilty as charged.
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:140


09/19/2020 10:33 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/28/2020 4:37 AM
Well is it your "job" to do all of this? It is still weird the MC is an "employee" of the HOA. Most HOA's are not like that. MC's are hired out contractors.

Plus because they are employed by the HOA does not mean they work for you. Seems you need to follow the correct lanes of communications. Which does not sound like direct contact with the MC. It sounds like they want people to go through the board first whom will decide how to manage their employee.



I hate to break this to you, there are many HOA that hire their manager as an employee of the HOA. I actually apply ten years ago for two different HOA with over 1000 units each.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9533


09/19/2020 2:33 PM  
Yes that may be the case. However, the relationship still stands. The person doesn't work directly for any member of the HOA. They work for the HOA board. Communication then should go to the board for them to direct what they want the MC to do. Skipping this step doesn't bold well.

Former HOA President
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:140


09/19/2020 3:16 PM  
No, they actually work for the Association
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3113


09/19/2020 4:03 PM  
Probably splitting some hairs, here.

The board is elected to represent the association. The board elects officers. One of those officers is the president. The president executes the basic agreed to functions of the community.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9877


09/19/2020 4:13 PM  
Who and when the contact the MC has to be clear. Some will say only one person on the BOD should be the contact point and while overall I agree with this, there are exceptions. Exceptions such as the BOD has designated one person the "lead" on an issue and as such that person can contact the MC. Notice I said the BOD designated the person versus someone on the BOD assuming they can contact the MC when and how they wish. I think this is Laksa's situation. She thinks being on the BOD gives her free reign over the MC.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9533


09/19/2020 5:00 PM  
Yes. They answer to the ASSOCIATION NOT ASSOCIATION MEMBER INDIVIDUALLY. Just what George posted on hair splitting. I agree with John46 with having 1 POC with the MC. We did the same with any contact with our attorney. My position as President made me the POC with both the attorney and MC/Accountant.

A good example in our HOA. Our ex-President was a con-man scumbag. (That was being "nice") He often would go behind my back to the accountant to get checks for work he did. He was still on the board technically after I took over. I made it mandatory that we had to have 3 bids on projects even if we agreed he would do them. (He bid too). Due to a big cluster involving our flagpole and a fired lawncare provider we had to purchase a new one. He bid $300 to do the job. We agreed to that amount. Turns out the materials were going to be more expensive than his bid. (Typical of him...) He still had access to the HOA's credit card. (Wasn't aware). I found the extra difference put onto that card! Mind you we would have agreed to that difference but he would had to re-bid to re-approve.

So having someone like this constantly going to the Accountant made it a mess. The accountant was so used to and "trusted" him that they didn't question some of these expenses. They just assumed we had agreed to these things. Had to explain to the MC that was a no-no from now on. They were NOT to pay out a dime until a SIGNED contract was submitted.

Till got this practice stopped, it painted me in a very bad light. It also made the HOA look mismanaged. Going to a meeting and having my jaw drop as we went over expenses wasn't pretty. Having to explain why a $300 job ballooned to a $700 one without discussion made it look like back-door shenagins were going on. People then lose trust in their HOA and make up conspiracy theories.

Former HOA President
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:140


09/19/2020 5:34 PM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 09/19/2020 4:03 PM
Probably splitting some hairs, here.

The board is elected to represent the association. The board elects officers. One of those officers is the president. The president executes the basic agreed to functions of the community.



Sorry, it's not splitting hairs. If a manager sends a violation letter, they do so on behalf of the Association. If an attorney writes a letter to a homeowner, they said they represent the Association.

Also, in many associations, because of quorum restrictions, directors aren't elected by the members, they're appointed by the board.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3113


09/19/2020 5:42 PM  
Sure to all ... and, as related to this discussion ... still splitting hairs.
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:140


09/19/2020 5:55 PM  
I don't think most of you get that having a manager who is an employee of the association is much different than if the manager were the employee of a management company.

When the manager is an employee of the association, they generally will have a office or two in a clubhouse. It is very common for them to have homeowners visit them, field questions, take down work orders that homeowners report, maybe ask for a report or something. I know of no association that puts restrictions on who actually can visit a manager who is an employee of the association. While they take director from a board of directors, they work and are paid for by the association and its homeowners. I've interviewed with association an a general manager and part of the job description was working with homeowners on a daily basis.

Having one person as the POC does pose a problem. The POC calls up the manager and says they need a tree cut down or work done on the property. The clause is many management's contracts and even attorneys. I never added that clause, for a reason. The president calls you up and says a tree needs to be removed. It cost $4000.00 to remove. The manager knows this needs approval as it is over the $500.00 limit placed on ikt by the contract.

I think in many situations, Laska's included, if a director questions anything pretty soon they will be completely left out of the loop, even having the attorney wrongly involved.
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:140


09/19/2020 5:55 PM  
I don't think most of you get that having a manager who is an employee of the association is much different than if the manager were the employee of a management company.

When the manager is an employee of the association, they generally will have a office or two in a clubhouse. It is very common for them to have homeowners visit them, field questions, take down work orders that homeowners report, maybe ask for a report or something. I know of no association that puts restrictions on who actually can visit a manager who is an employee of the association. While they take director from a board of directors, they work and are paid for by the association and its homeowners. I've interviewed with association an a general manager and part of the job description was working with homeowners on a daily basis.

Having one person as the POC does pose a problem. The POC calls up the manager and says they need a tree cut down or work done on the property. The clause is many management's contracts and even attorneys. I never added that clause, for a reason. The president calls you up and says a tree needs to be removed. It cost $4000.00 to remove. The manager knows this needs approval as it is over the $500.00 limit placed on ikt by the contract.

I think in many situations, Laska's included, if a director questions anything pretty soon they will be completely left out of the loop, even having the attorney wrongly involved.
LaskaS
(Texas)

Posts:412


09/19/2020 7:25 PM  
George,,
there is no management company.. the property manager is an employee of the hoa, hired by the board.

I am not directing her to do anything that is not already specified as required as part of her job. The problem is, she is not doing her job. Since I live here. I was seeing this day in and day out. What I would say would be something like. " eliz(property manager) can you please follow up getting the sprinkler system programmed. You said you were going to do this 2 weeks ago and it's still not done and the plants are dieing"

the problem is, the property manager in response to it becoming clear that she isn't doing her job, she has used the known dicord between myself and a majority of the rest of the board and wrote a long letter presenting herself as a victim and she is just trying to do her job.

and she has continued this ruse to deflect attention away from seeing that her job isn't being done.

The truth is now coming out.. every week, board members are hearing from owners or residents the same kind of complaints that I have been making since april. The property manager does not respond to normal requests. EXAMPLE,(this is a real example) A resident went to the office and asked for the exact parking space number that was assigned to that condo. The property manager says, I don't have the book with that info in front of me , let me send you an email with that info this afternoon.

A week later, the resident goes back to the office and says. ELIZ, I never received the parking info. She apologizes profusely, and says it completely slipped her mind and please forgive her and she will send it that afternoon.

A week later, the tenant again goes to the office (now he is rather perturbed). He says, He doesn't understand why it's been 3 weeks and he still doesn't have his assigned parking space.
She responds, I'm having a really tough day, I don't need you to come in here asking questions like that.

Here's the gist,, it turns out,, this exact same sequence has played out dozens of times, over simple issues. It's like she is completely unorganized and yet pretends she;s on top of everything,
LaskaS
(Texas)

Posts:412


09/19/2020 7:40 PM  
johnc77,, YES, exactly what you said. I guess I didn't realize that having an employee that is the property manager is that different than most condominiums.

Everything you said is exactly what has been happening.

Previously, the pres insisted that he needed to be the ONLY poc to the property manager(hoaemployee).. I repeatedly objected and said this is ridiculous, any board member can ask a question, or follow up on an issue. I did agree that the president or another designated board member should be the one to notify the property manager of board decisions. However, the real issue , the property manager wasn't coming to meetings. So none of the board had any idea what was going on. Whatever the president said was taken as fact.
Finally it blew up in the presidents face and the board voted to fire that property manager.

We hired the new property manager. Unfortunately, even though I had reservations about a few minor things. She said all the right things and initially seemed to be a godsend. UNTIL, weeks went by and the things she said she was going to take care of, were not taken care of. I tried to help her and show her the work order , work request documentation procedures that the hoa office was required to use. She would tell me she understood but then I found out that she was not using the procedures and processes at all.. there were no records of what was going on day in day out... Some things were getting done on the property but there were no records. Additionally, when the financials came out, I discovered that she had not been charging owners and residents as required for work done by the hoa on their behalf. This is part of the hoa income, For four months there was no income from owner chargebacks. Despite the maintenance staff continually responding to her phone calls to go check a dishwasher in this unit or go help with a garbage disposal replacement.

This was thousands of dollars a month that was not being collected. HOA resources were being used for the benefit of a single owner.

Every week I would discover additional issues. Not little things. these were BIG ISSUES. and when finally a special meeting of the board was called to discuss her 90 trial period, on the exact day the board met and all agreed there were serious issues. She sent the long email presenting herself as the victim and characterizing my repeated discoveries of mismanagement and missing funds as harassment ..
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3113


09/19/2020 7:40 PM  
Uh ...

“I am not directing her to do anything that is not already specified as required as part of her job.”

This sounds to me like you ARE directing ... am I missing something?
LaskaS
(Texas)

Posts:412


09/19/2020 8:27 PM  
um.,


Regarding common area issues. I would follow up or make a request ... " eliz(property manager) can you please follow up getting the sprinkler system programmed. You said you were going to do this 2 weeks ago and it's still not done and the plants are dying"
LaskaS
(Texas)

Posts:412


09/19/2020 8:40 PM  
Johnc46.

Um, johnc46.. this comment really upsets me.

Anybody who would state, you believe someone is guilty as charged.
Based on my posts.


I may have written a lot of posts trying to get some kind of help or advice, However. I have never been rude to anyone. I have never harassed anyone.

Yet you are willing to believe that based on my posts, which apparently you don't like, you are willing to go ahead and find me guilty as charged.. THATS THE PROBLEM.

The board believed the unsubstantiated claims of the Property Manager based on their personal bias. which stems from a lot of me continually being the board member who notifies the board that the proper consideration of issues before voting is necessary.! Or, calling out the board president for somehow" forgetting" to have his account properly charged for work done inside his unit.

basically, time and time again I've become the "whistleblower". Its not for chicken**** stuff, . The condominium bylaws and declaration have so very few actual clear guidelines.. when the board trys to find ways around the bylaws that "could" be plausible . that's basically not acting in good faith. And not upholding the contract between the owners and hoa.. the declaration.
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:140


09/19/2020 8:54 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/19/2020 4:13 PM
Who and when the contact the MC has to be clear. Some will say only one person on the BOD should be the contact point and while overall I agree with this, there are exceptions. Exceptions such as the BOD has designated one person the "lead" on an issue and as such that person can contact the MC. Notice I said the BOD designated the person versus someone on the BOD assuming they can contact the MC when and how they wish. I think this is Laksa's situation. She thinks being on the BOD gives her free reign over the MC.



The association DOES NOT have a management company, they have a manager who is an employee of the association.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3113


09/19/2020 9:11 PM  
John,

Is there a difference with regards to this scenario?
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:140


09/19/2020 10:10 PM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 09/19/2020 9:11 PM
John,

Is there a difference with regards to this scenario?



And WHAT do you think?
LaskaS
(Texas)

Posts:412


09/19/2020 11:08 PM  
Johnc77, I think you're being trolled.

Of course there is a difference.

first and foremost,, the employee property manager is a full time on site position who job description included , interact day to day with resident and owners .
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9533


09/20/2020 5:39 AM  
Is that your opinion or fact about your MC? Because most MC aren't always contracted to deal with membership directly. Is that what their contract says?

Former HOA President
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3113


09/20/2020 8:20 AM  
My point relates to the interaction between Laska and the human that is being paid by the association - whether directly, or as an employee of a MC.

If Laska has been disruptive by continually interacting with this person, against the board’s direction, then I can’t see why it matters?
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:140


09/20/2020 9:53 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/20/2020 5:39 AM
Is that your opinion or fact about your MC? Because most MC aren't always contracted to deal with membership directly. Is that what their contract says?



Paste this link and find the first General Manager position. The employee is the association.

https://www.davis-stirling.com/Job-Market
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9533


09/20/2020 9:59 AM  
What does Laska's HOA contract say? Not every state follow Davis-Sterling. Is their MC hired to be direct input with the membership? Plus if they have an issue with a member, can they not ask the board to step in?

Former HOA President
LaskaS
(Texas)

Posts:412


09/20/2020 10:03 AM  
We don't have a contract with a Management Company!. geez.

And I don't interact with the Manager all the time. When she was first Hired, I was the board member who interacted with her and was training her. That Changed on May 31. Now I don't deal with her as a board member at all.
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:140


09/20/2020 10:08 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/20/2020 9:59 AM
What does Laska's HOA contract say? Not every state follow Davis-Sterling. Is their MC hired to be direct input with the membership? Plus if they have an issue with a member, can they not ask the board to step in?



WOW..Are you serious?

This was a job market post on that site. It has nothing to do with following California statues.

BTW, it's Davis-Stirling, not Sterling. I know Larry Stirling would appreciate that.
LaskaS
(Texas)

Posts:412


09/20/2020 10:10 AM  
We don't have a contract with a Management Company!. geez. We hired an employee is not a contractual positioin. She has a job description and and job requirements .

specifically, she is not keeping accurate records and documentation of the maintenance of the hoa and is not correctly charging owners back for work done on their behalf by the hoa full time employees. We have 2 Full time Ac certified technicians. Any service done on Ac's MUST be charged back to the homeowner. as each individual central air conditioner is the responsiblity of the owner.

George, If I did interact with the manager all the time , that would be one thing, But I don't.. so your what's the difference is a moot point.
I don't interact with the Manager all the time. When she was first Hired, I was the board member who interacted with her and was training her. That Changed on May 31. Now I don't deal with her as a board member at all. I don't tell her what to do. I have every right to report to the office if something is broken in the common areas that hasn't been addressed.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9533


09/20/2020 10:46 AM  
Okay but doesn't mean that person's response or even the HOA's is to be on your terms or time line. You report it like everyone has a right to. You don't have a right to judge, control, or demand what happens after that.

So what if the MC is doing a bad job or even a good one? It is irrelevant until the HOA itself determines it. Which means a GROUP of individuals/neighbors whom share the same opinion. Pointing it out doesn't need to be done if it's that obvious. People are still capable of forming their own opinion without being told how to do so.

Former HOA President
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:140


09/20/2020 11:02 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/20/2020 10:46 AM
Okay but doesn't mean that person's response or even the HOA's is to be on your terms or time line. You report it like everyone has a right to. You don't have a right to judge, control, or demand what happens after that.

So what if the MC is doing a bad job or even a good one? It is irrelevant until the HOA itself determines it. Which means a GROUP of individuals/neighbors whom share the same opinion. Pointing it out doesn't need to be done if it's that obvious. People are still capable of forming their own opinion without being told how to do so.



There is NO MC, just an employee!
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9533


09/20/2020 11:04 AM  
The employee is acting as the MC...

Former HOA President
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:140


09/20/2020 11:25 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/20/2020 11:04 AM
The employee is acting as the MC...



Just goes right over your head.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:3113


09/20/2020 11:57 AM  
And, again, for the purposes of this discussion, I don't see a difference.

It SEEMS (I am often wrong) that Laska continues to talk the human hired by the Association, through whatever business mechanism - and, the Board has insisted this stop.

Is this too basic a summary?

And, John, your statement re Melissa's comment is rude and unnecessary - you may have different ways and words of expressing your position, as does Melissa.
LaskaS
(Texas)

Posts:412


09/20/2020 12:06 PM  
george are you stating the board has the authority to restrict an owners ability to interact with an employee of the HOA. ?

I do not think they do just because an employee claims they feel harassed. The employee or board can seek a retraining order. They will be required to show proof. If the lawyers and police have consistently informed the employee and the board that nothing that has occured rises to the level that a court would require to issue a restraining order.

It's one thing if someone is a pain in the ass. One person's pain in the ass is another person checks and balances.

LaskaS
(Texas)

Posts:412


09/20/2020 12:17 PM  
Mellissa,

I don't know what all a MC does for a property, I believe the services are outlined in the contract.

I do know that with a community that hires a management company and the MC does not provide a full time on site manager. There usually is a chain of command for dealing with complaints and issues.

However. If the MC does provide a fulltime on site manager, then the proper procedure would obviously be to contact the MC with complaints about the property manager not doing their job.

However, the MC decides whether they think the complaint is valid. If a MC does not respond. then the board needs to decide whether the MC is a good fit for them...


HOWEVER. OUR hoa employee does not have a contractual relationship with the hoa.. They can be fired at any time as long as it's not for one of the discrimination definitions. They are hired by the board and can fired by the board. , Think of it like an office manager.... the job duties are to process and handle work requests and maintenance issues of the common areas., keep accurate records and receipts of the association using the provided documentation system. To interact with residents and owners on a daily basis and answer questions. provide service or whatnot.

so while there certainly is overlap between what a contracted MC is hired to do and the day to day duties of the office manager. The MC role has some requirements and restrictions by law that must be observed. whereas an office manager has a job description , list of job duties and responsibilities that MUST be done and an employee handbook.
JohnC77
(Washington)

Posts:140


09/20/2020 12:33 PM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 09/20/2020 11:57 AM
And, John, your statement re Melissa's comment is rude


At least that is something I can agree on!
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7502


09/20/2020 1:48 PM  
I think I've asked this a couple of times, Laska: Is the HOA's onsite manager, an employee of the HOA, a certified property manager?
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9533


09/20/2020 1:51 PM  
One doesn't put a restraining order on a customer. So to say that "If they feel harrassed then need to get a restraining order" Is a PERSONAL line. Plus in this case, it would be the HOA whom would have to pursue the restraining order against you or any other member that crosses the line. That is because that is their employee according to you.

Basically, just stop talking to the MC/Employee as requested. It's not wanted. If there is a problem there, your just blocking the view of it by all your complaints. It is obvious they are not listening to you but that employee. As they should.

Once you are removed as a factor of opinion, then the work of that employee should show. In the meantime, just chill out.

My Ex used to be a top manager at a big corporation. Sometimes I'd call and ask him what he was doing. He'd tell me he was out playing golf! I am like "You have a bunch of people working for you and your out playing golf???". He tell me if his people could not resolve any issues amongst themselves, then why did he hire them?

Former HOA President
ChrisE8
(New York)

Posts:34


09/20/2020 1:53 PM  
Please consider applying my two rules here:

1. Try to get along.
2. Don't fight with a lawyer unless you have a lawyer.
LaskaS
(Texas)

Posts:412


09/20/2020 3:40 PM  
property manager NOT certified, we will definitely be hiring a certified property manager as soon as this one implodes.. I give it a month.

since I now don't talk to her at all. The truth has come out, and like i said, there are thousands of dollars in unprocessed chargebacks. maintenance sheets are half filled.. the smartest thing i could have done is not notify the board early on and just let her implode. the problem is,, most of the board isn't on top of things, they don't live here and they don't see the day to day stuff. However, now that residents have come forward and relayed experiences that are the exact same things i've been telling the board. She either is going to start doing the job as she was hired to do.. i'm talking properly processing chargebacks.. properly keeping records of work requests and properly documenting and keeping records of maintenance issues. Those things aren't currently being accurately done.

I've been pushing for a centralized online portal for all records and requests.. FINALLY the board has definitely agreed that is necessary, it should be started this week.

We have a parliamentarian that will lead the meetings instead of a clearly biased owner of the company that does our accounting, (he also manages serveral associations,, we just don't use his company for that, but he constantly is trying to allow things to be done that are skirting the intent of the byalws.

the former president is gone thank god... the board did get correct regarding the lack of quorum last week . so the secretary called a meeting for next week. and specifically she stated, to fill vacant seats.
LaskaS
(Texas)

Posts:412


09/20/2020 3:45 PM  
chrisE.

ha ha,, i agree not to fight with a lawyer,

but geez, he's supposed to be the hoa lawyer,, i'm sure the fact that I have been right on several technical legal issues just pisses him off. Mainly because he so vehemently stated I was wrong on three different occasions. every one of them,, turns out i was right. Of course, he never apologized or even sent a written confirmation that on the issues in question. My reading of the law was correct . He basicallly assumed he knew the answer .. I've realized the law is all about the details,,

now regarding actually going to court, i would never be so stupid as to try and go to court without a lawyer.. i know nothing about the procedural requirements etc.

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