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Subject: Clutter/trash
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Author Messages
CathyM10
(Missouri)

Posts:6


07/27/2020 12:53 PM  
Our HOA is adding to the nuisance section the topic "clutter". We are unsure how to define clutter so it fits those who have trash and clutter in piles on their property. the saying "one man's trash is another man's treasure" plagues us so we want to be as specific as possible. Any suggestions? Thanks.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3925


07/27/2020 12:59 PM  
Take a drive through a local trailer park or two and start making a list. Bring lots of paper.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:3358


07/27/2020 1:01 PM  
You want to add something and no one checked the dictionary?

Or have a look at your city/county code concerning trash - I'm sure there's something that addresses piles of junk that can result in vermin/insect infestation, or otherwise threaten health and safety. You could even adopt the city or county code as your community rules - that may be faster than trying to define it yourself because, as you said, one person's treasure is another person's crap.

By the way, where is this going - in your CCRs (amendments have to be approved by the homeowners, which can be a long and convoluted process) or adopted as a community rule (many documents give the Board the authority to adopt additional rules and policies to flesh out the CCRs, but can't override them). That distinction can be important if someone raises a major stink over it. By adopting a rule and telling everything it'll be effective X date, changing a rule may be faster once you see the intended and unintended consequences. I suggest 30 days notice to give people time to clean up their act.
JulieS11
(Missouri)

Posts:3


07/27/2020 2:33 PM  
Hi - I am in the same HOA as CathyM10 - we are writing language that will be voted on at the annual meeting. We expect a lot of pushback on this issue, so we are looking for advice on how to word it in a way that doesn't make people feel like we are going to nit-pick every single thing sitting outside their house. We live in a lake community - 1/3 are full timers and the rest are second homes for people that live in a larger metro area - most in Kansas City. Our community originated in 1955 so there are lots of small cabins from then mixed in with new homes. WE are not a suburban community - it's very rural here. The population of the county is about 2,200 people and has virtually no rules about anything related to nuisances or animals. Cathy called the County Commissioner who said they get 2-3 calls a day about issues like this. There is not an appetite by the politicians to tackle it because it would result in a tax increase - resources would be needed to monitor. We have to set up our own rules in the HOA.

Any guidance or verbiage examples would be helpful.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:3358


07/27/2020 4:43 PM  
One of the biggest mistakes association's make when it comes to rule enforcement is not getting buy-in from the homeowners, or at least a majority of them. Has anyone conducted a survey to see what homeowners consider clutter and what the biggest concerns are?

From reviewing the responses, you may notice patterns that can help in drafting rules. For example someone may like up stuff one day because he's carpets being laid and it goes back in the house that night. Others may leave it outside for weeks on end - what bugs people the most about that? Is it the length of time, loose stuff being blown around the neighbor into other yards, etc? Perhaps you should consider when stuff sitting outside turn into a safety and health hazard and ready from there.

You'll also have to think of enforcement. You're correct The politicians don't want to deal with for The same reason you're concerned about pushback. Just how will YOU enforce this rule and what if someone says F##k you, this is mah house and I'll put whatever I want on my porch, driveway or where ever The bloody help I want because this is 'Murica! How far will you take it?

If you haven't already done so, do a poll of perhaps invite homeowners to a special meeting to see what they'd like to see. There will always be people who will resist common sense, but if the majority know they had a hand in establishing the rule, they'll be more supportive.








KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7397


07/27/2020 5:10 PM  
I think Sheila's idea about a survey is a good one Cathy & Julie. You do want this change to go smoothly and so you do want to know what owners want, in general. You want their buy-in and subsequent cooperation.
JulieS11
(Missouri)

Posts:3


07/27/2020 6:13 PM  
We did do a survey. 66% want us to do something about "unsightly or cluttered properties". 32% said no and 2% didn't answer. There is a faction of "my house, I'll do what I want" but I'm not so concerned about that at this point. I think we will get the votes, but getting the verbiage right is critical. We have a nearby neighborhood that includes "at the Board's judgement" and I like that because in reality that's what it comes down to. But this is a two way street - we can have homeowners that are heavy handed and we could have board members that are heavy handed too. We don't now, but could in the future.

Cathy and I have been thinking about this too much and were just looking for some outside perspective.
JulieS11
(Missouri)

Posts:3


07/27/2020 6:17 PM  
Forgot to mention - we visited with an attorney to review our bylaws. We were going to remedy issues by paying someone to mow the lawn, remove trash. He was very concerned about going on to someone else's property - was afraid someone would get hurt. Instead we will levy monthly fines "until remedied to the satisfaction of the Board".
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7397


07/27/2020 6:23 PM  
You will get some good replies, I think. I'm not much help cuz we're in a high rise condo building where folks only have balconies. So our rules list what IS permitted vs. what isn't. Makes it easy. I don't seem to have any ideas for you.

It does sound like your neighbors do want a nicer- appearing community.

You Know? Once you do have rules, IF your HOA can afford it, maybe rent a big dumpster for a day or weekend for everyone to throw their trash into?

CathyM10
(Missouri)

Posts:6


07/27/2020 6:29 PM  
Thanks Kerry. We do that once every yr. Clutter folks don't ever take advantage of it. If fact, they probably look for more clutter!
BenA2
(Texas)

Posts:758


07/27/2020 8:17 PM  
Posted By GenoS on 07/27/2020 12:59 PM
Take a drive through a local trailer park or two and start making a list. Bring lots of paper.



Wow. Classist much.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3925


07/27/2020 8:19 PM  
Posted By BenA2 on 07/27/2020 8:17 PM
Wow. Classist much.

A picture, or even what you can see with your own two eyes, is worth a thousand words.
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