Get 1 year of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Sunday, August 09, 2020











HOATalk is a free service of Community123.com:

Easy to use website tools to help your board
Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.
Subject: Does your HOA have an HOA Attorney ?
Prev Next
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Page 2 of 3 << < 123 > >>
Author Messages
MarkW18


Posts:1290


07/10/2020 11:59 AM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/10/2020 11:33 AM
And construction defects, MarkW?



Actually worked on 8 of them, while I worked for a crook of a lawyer. The biggest was a condo conversion in San Diego, Lacera Condos. It was a $7.8M case that the developer tried to settle for $6.4M and the crook turned it down, went to trial and he was awarded $800K. He never prepared for trial, writing dirty jokes for a website. True story. He lost every one of the 8. I've also did 7 complete restatements of governing documents and got them all passed.

Couldn't get a job with your management company because I was over qualified. Their words, not mine.
MarkW18


Posts:1290


07/10/2020 12:01 PM  
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 11:59 AM
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/10/2020 11:33 AM
And construction defects, MarkW?




Kerry, you've already admitted that you are unintelligent.

If you're sincerely asking Mark about construction defects, then that just further shows your lack of intelligence.

Otherwise, you're just taunting and trying to argue with MarkW. Poor form.



I imagine that is what happened with the two lawyers on her board.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/10/2020 12:09 PM  
Agreed. And for Kerry to think that she's getting anything of value for a $600 per year retainer is beyond unintelligent. Even a first-grader would know better than that.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2902


07/10/2020 12:13 PM  
Not like those really smart graduates of Ivy League institutions, right Paul?
AugustinD


Posts:3683


07/10/2020 12:31 PM  
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 11:59 AM
If you're sincerely asking Mark about construction defects, then that just further shows your lack of intelligence.
Why do you think asking Mark about construction defects is not appropriate? I have lived in three HOAs/condos now, and construction defects were not something with which there were problems. KerryL1's condo has had massive problems that required an attorney specialized in condo law and construction defect law.

It seems to me that you feel that, to get any respect, you have to claim you are a graduate of a "top 5" law school. It's the internet. No one cares what unprovable claims you make. The fact that you toss out fifth grade insults makes me think you could not have graduated from college, never mind law school.

I notice KerryL1 does not have to name drop her credentials the way you do. She let's her points speak for themselves, without appeal to authority.

I do appreciate the lowbrow attempt to gang up on someone with MarkW18.

I am not your friend. I try to take each post on its own merits. Here and there I may agree with a post of yours. But I do find your repeated railing at hoatalk.com about how superior corporate lawyers are to everyone else to be naive and ill-informed.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7397


07/10/2020 12:38 PM  
I agree with Augie's advice to Nicole. If she hs a property mgr. the person probably can find good candidates. But, as often is the case with Nicole, hasn't return to us. The size & complexity of HOA do matter.

All of the HOA attorneys we've interviewed in three different periods offered the retainer plan or just an hourly schedule. It was typical for at least two from their firms to attend the interviews.

Paul says twice I've admitted I'm unintelligent. I don't see where I wrote that. It seems that a top-5 law school grad wouldn't just make things up based on nothing. I think he's reading something into my remarks the doesn't exist. I believe these might be called "groundless assumptions?" Don't know. Nor would such a person form a highly ranked law school confuse intelligence with level of education.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/10/2020 12:38 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 07/10/2020 12:31 PM
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 11:59 AM
If you're sincerely asking Mark about construction defects, then that just further shows your lack of intelligence.
Why do you think asking Mark about construction defects is not appropriate? I have lived in three HOAs/condos now, and construction defects were not something with which there were problems. KerryL1's condo has had massive problems that required an attorney specialized in condo law and construction defect law.

It seems to me that you feel that, to get any respect, you have to claim you are a graduate of a "top 5" law school. It's the internet. No one cares what unprovable claims you make. The fact that you toss out fifth grade insults makes me think you could not have graduated from college, never mind law school.

I notice KerryL1 does not have to name drop her credentials the way you do. She let's her points speak for themselves, without appeal to authority.

I do appreciate the lowbrow attempt to gang up on someone with MarkW18.

I am not your friend. I try to take each post on its own merits. Here and there I may agree with a post of yours. But I do find your repeated railing at hoatalk.com about how superior corporate lawyers are to everyone else to be naive and ill-informed.




AugustinD, Kerry is sneering at Mark and trying to pick a fight, just as she does with a lot of other people.

FYI, I NEVER have said that "corporate lawyers are" "superior...to everyone else". To the contrary, I've stated that the medical field is more selective.

What I've said, and will say again, is that HOA lawyers are less competent, less ethical and less protective than real lawyers are, and that if a HOA wants to protect itself, it should get a real lawyer, not a HOA lawyer.

You're welcome to criticize my positions, and anything else about me that you want, but please get my positions straight before you criticize.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/10/2020 12:39 PM  
And Kerry doesn't have any credentials worth mentioning, so no wonder that she doesn't mention them. Maybe she got an A in middle school or something? I'll concede that.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/10/2020 12:47 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/10/2020 12:38 PM
I agree with Augie's advice to Nicole. If she hs a property mgr. the person probably can find good candidates. But, as often is the case with Nicole, hasn't return to us. The size & complexity of HOA do matter.

All of the HOA attorneys we've interviewed in three different periods offered the retainer plan or just an hourly schedule. It was typical for at least two from their firms to attend the interviews.

Paul says twice I've admitted I'm unintelligent. I don't see where I wrote that. It seems that a top-5 law school grad wouldn't just make things up based on nothing. I think he's reading something into my remarks the doesn't exist. I believe these might be called "groundless assumptions?" Don't know. Nor would such a person form a highly ranked law school confuse intelligence with level of education.




Your lack of intelligence shows in what you've posted about your background and in your posts. Your posts are disproportionately (1) asking dumb questions and (2) scolding others.

You have admitted that you are unintelligent.

So what that maybe you got an A in physical education in sixth grade, or the like; if that or something similar was your peak, it speaks for itself.
MarkW18


Posts:1290


07/10/2020 1:04 PM  
When my wife was president of our Board, they hired Adams Stirling on retainer for an annual fee of $5000.00 which was a total waste of money. The management company talked the other board members into the decision.

Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, managers get involved in construction defect cases and civil cases. We don't get paid extra and most times in's not in our contracts. My minimum monthly fee was $350.00 or $4200 a year. Sorry, $600 a year wouldn't cut it.

Kerry is in a unique position in that she has an on-site manager and an assistance, devoted entirely to her complex. 98% of HOA's or Condos don't have that luxury. Management does pretty much every for them. Contrary to popular belief, we still put out out pants on one leg at a time.

To Nicole, if you can look at your governing docs and find a question, then look to see if the question can be answered on davis-stirling.com, then you don't need a lawyer on retainer. The other issue is you could ask the same question to two lawyers and get two different answers and interpretations.

There are certain law firms within the U.S. that require graduation from a top 5 college BECAUSE their clients demand that. It is possible that the education level is better there because of the quality of the professors, but like any other profession, you only get out of it what your are willing to put into it.
AugustinD


Posts:3683


07/10/2020 1:05 PM  
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 12:39 PM
And Kerry doesn't have any credentials worth mentioning,
How do you know this? Do you even know that "appeal to authority" is logically fallacious?

I do not see KerryL1 picking fights.

I think anyone accusing KerryL1 or CathyA3 of belonging to condo boards that chosen poor attorneys because the retainer is only $600 per year (covering a limited amount of service) is ridiculous.
AugustinD


Posts:3683


07/10/2020 1:09 PM  
Posted By MarkW18 on 07/10/2020 1:04 PM
is in a unique position in that she has an on-site manager and an assistance, devoted entirely to her complex. 98% of HOA's or Condos don't have that luxury.
I doubt this. Now go have another litter of puppies.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/10/2020 1:11 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 07/10/2020 1:05 PM
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 12:39 PM
And Kerry doesn't have any credentials worth mentioning,
How do you know this? Do you even know that "appeal to authority" is logically fallacious?

I do not see KerryL1 picking fights.

I think anyone accusing KerryL1 or CathyA3 of belonging to condo boards that chosen poor attorneys because the retainer is only $600 per year (covering a limited amount of service) is ridiculous.




AugustinD: please read my words carefully. That's not what I said.

KerryL1 taunts and picks at people constantly.

And she's dumb. She's too dumb to even realize that she's dumb. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7397


07/10/2020 1:12 PM  
I think Paul still confuses educational attainment & grades with intelligence.

Paul, alleges: "You have admitted that you are unintelligent." I don't know my level of intelligence, but, where oh where did I admit I'm unintelligent? Show us the evidence! I did get all A's in PE all the way through high schoo!! I don't think any other posters talk about their ed level. How do you interpret that, Paul? I do know a few very highly educated professionals who don't talk about --and certainly don't brag about-- the schools they attended. Why should they?

I often agree with MarkW and have very recently. It's usually about CA HOAs. But he gets snarky with many posters. And now he feels he must brag about his experience with huge sums, etc., etc. How does this help Nicole, the OP?
AugustinD


Posts:3683


07/10/2020 1:14 PM  
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 12:39 PM
And Kerry doesn't have any credentials worth mentioning,
How do you know this?

Do you even know that "appeal to authority" is logically fallacious?
MarkW18


Posts:1290


07/10/2020 1:19 PM  
I was thinking. We constantly bring up to reference www.davis..blah..blah and are giving the law firm free adverting, including myself. Why don't I use my website to link to theirs and get the same free publicity as them? Just thinking out loud.
AugustinD


Posts:3683


07/10/2020 1:20 PM  
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 1:11 PM
Posted By AugustinD on 07/10/2020 1:05 PM
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 12:39 PM
And Kerry doesn't have any credentials worth mentioning,
How do you know this? Do you even know that "appeal to authority" is logically fallacious?

I do not see KerryL1 picking fights.

I think anyone accusing KerryL1 or CathyA3 of belonging to condo boards that chosen poor attorneys because the retainer is only $600 per year (covering a limited amount of service) is ridiculous.


AugustinD: please read my words carefully. That's not what I said.

You posted:

Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 12:09 PM
for Kerry to think that she's getting anything of value for a $600 per year retainer is beyond unintelligent.


Your hair splitting underwhelms.
MarkW18


Posts:1290


07/10/2020 1:25 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/10/2020 1:12 PM
I think Paul still confuses educational attainment & grades with intelligence.

Paul, alleges: "You have admitted that you are unintelligent." I don't know my level of intelligence, but, where oh where did I admit I'm unintelligent? Show us the evidence! I did get all A's in PE all the way through high schoo!! I don't think any other posters talk about their ed level. How do you interpret that, Paul? I do know a few very highly educated professionals who don't talk about --and certainly don't brag about-- the schools they attended. Why should they?

I often agree with MarkW and have very recently. It's usually about CA HOAs. But he gets snarky with many posters. And now he feels he must brag about his experience with huge sums, etc., etc. How does this help Nicole, the OP?



I actually answered her question, on more than one occasion, have you? And what the hell is snarky?
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/10/2020 1:28 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 07/10/2020 1:20 PM
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 1:11 PM
Posted By AugustinD on 07/10/2020 1:05 PM
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 12:39 PM
And Kerry doesn't have any credentials worth mentioning,
How do you know this? Do you even know that "appeal to authority" is logically fallacious?

I do not see KerryL1 picking fights.

I think anyone accusing KerryL1 or CathyA3 of belonging to condo boards that chosen poor attorneys because the retainer is only $600 per year (covering a limited amount of service) is ridiculous.


AugustinD: please read my words carefully. That's not what I said.

You posted:

Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 12:09 PM
for Kerry to think that she's getting anything of value for a $600 per year retainer is beyond unintelligent.


Your hair splitting underwhelms.




My point is that someone isn't getting much legal work of value for $600 per year.

I'm not criticizing anyone for serving on a board.

AugustinD, you seem to have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed today. Hope things get better.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/10/2020 1:29 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 07/10/2020 1:14 PM
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 12:39 PM
And Kerry doesn't have any credentials worth mentioning,
How do you know this?

Do you even know that "appeal to authority" is logically fallacious?




Because Kerry has provided details about her background.

She is dumb. Dumb. Dumb. And she's too dumb to even realize her ignorance.
MarkW18


Posts:1290


07/10/2020 1:38 PM  
When I moved into my only HOA, they were just getting involved with a homeowner to homeowner dispute that ended up costing them, in cash, $250K.

In ten years, I had one association I personally managed involved in a construction defect case, the others were other team member's properties. In those ten years, I had two phones calls with one attorney that cost the association maybe $300.00. Never had a lawsuit, never had to use one for collections. So I think I provided substantial added value to clients over the years seeing how much other spend on legal fees. I ain't afraid to state my experience, again, I did put in the time.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/10/2020 1:45 PM  
Posted By MarkW18 on 07/10/2020 1:38 PM
When I moved into my only HOA, they were just getting involved with a homeowner to homeowner dispute that ended up costing them, in cash, $250K.

In ten years, I had one association I personally managed involved in a construction defect case, the others were other team member's properties. In those ten years, I had two phones calls with one attorney that cost the association maybe $300.00. Never had a lawsuit, never had to use one for collections. So I think I provided substantial added value to clients over the years seeing how much other spend on legal fees. I ain't afraid to state my experience, again, I did put in the time.




Excellent post, and it shows the value of simply engaging with owners, without HOA lawyers involved, to resolve disputes. That's the best approach.
AugustinD


Posts:3683


07/10/2020 1:50 PM  
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 1:28 PM
My point is that someone isn't getting much legal work of value for $600 per year.


From a California condo, the $600 covers:
"It includes unlimited free phone calls; attendance at two board meetings plus the annual meeting per year. Obviously, if research must be done re: a phone question, we're charged by 10-minutes increments based on the skill-level needed, i.e, we pay less for a paralegal than a partner."

From an Ohio condo, the $600 covers:
"For a relatively modest retainer, we receive unlimited free 15-minute phone calls (for general, day to day stuff), free quarterly in-person training seminars (prior to COVID they were in person), access to all training materials on their web site, and quarterly newsletters covering various topics. For board members who are motivated to do a good job, this training is a gold mine and well worth the cost of the retainer."
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/10/2020 1:59 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 07/10/2020 1:50 PM
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 1:28 PM
My point is that someone isn't getting much legal work of value for $600 per year.


From a California condo, the $600 covers:
"It includes unlimited free phone calls; attendance at two board meetings plus the annual meeting per year. Obviously, if research must be done re: a phone question, we're charged by 10-minutes increments based on the skill-level needed, i.e, we pay less for a paralegal than a partner."

From an Ohio condo, the $600 covers:
"For a relatively modest retainer, we receive unlimited free 15-minute phone calls (for general, day to day stuff), free quarterly in-person training seminars (prior to COVID they were in person), access to all training materials on their web site, and quarterly newsletters covering various topics. For board members who are motivated to do a good job, this training is a gold mine and well worth the cost of the retainer."




Again, my point is that one wouldn't receive much legal work of value for that.

Either it's decent amount of work of very low quality (as anyone reputable would charge a lot more than that for that amount of time) or it's a small amount of work of very high quality. Based on the description, it's the former. That's exactly my point- it's a HOA lawyer providing cr*p work for that price, and it's worthless if the HOA ever has to go up against a real lawyer.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/10/2020 2:16 PM  
AugustinD, to add, about HOA law being a relatively easy specialization:

All the "legal work" that the HOA is getting is free phone calls. The rest of it is basically firm advertising. And at that price, the "HOA lawyer" clearly is just picking up the phone and talking for 15 minutes per time. He isn't doing any substantive research or document review for that price. So he's just talking based on his existing knowledge, without any background documents to review. And the chance of another adverse lawyer being involved is very low. That's not a challenging job or intellectually challenging work.

Compare that to, say, arguing in front of the Supreme Court (or any state or federal court). Or negotiating a private equity investment across from Kirkland & Ellis. You have to be on your toes, and at the top of your game, in those situations, or you'll get eaten alive.

Which would require a sharper lawyer? Clearly, not the HOA work.
MarkW18


Posts:1290


07/10/2020 2:18 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 07/10/2020 1:50 PM
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 1:28 PM
My point is that someone isn't getting much legal work of value for $600 per year.


From a California condo, the $600 covers:
"It includes unlimited free phone calls; attendance at two board meetings plus the annual meeting per year. Obviously, if research must be done re: a phone question, we're charged by 10-minutes increments based on the skill-level needed, i.e, we pay less for a paralegal than a partner."

From an Ohio condo, the $600 covers:
"For a relatively modest retainer, we receive unlimited free 15-minute phone calls (for general, day to day stuff), free quarterly in-person training seminars (prior to COVID they were in person), access to all training materials on their web site, and quarterly newsletters covering various topics. For board members who are motivated to do a good job, this training is a gold mine and well worth the cost of the retainer."



In 2013, my association paid $5000 as a retainer for a HOA attorney. The firm I worked for charged $2000, but it wasn't worth the paper it was written on. I had to go out for bids and would never come close to $600 annual retainer.

My minimum rate is $350.00 a month to manage a property. Now, if the lawyer is getting $10K of business on the side, then they may charge an annual retainer of $600.00. Have to know your client. I've also heard this $600.00 rate for a number of years, has there never been an increase and what are the association's annual legal expenses.

Talking about legal expenses, I updated all out client election rules to the new laws at no charge. That saved each of them a min of $500.00 a pop.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7397


07/10/2020 2:22 PM  
I'm still waiting or Paul to show us where I said I was unintelligent. OR where I said ANYthing about how much ed after high school I do or don't possess. Aren't lawyers supposed to prove their assertions??

(it's true I got a C- in typing.)
MarkW18


Posts:1290


07/10/2020 2:28 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/10/2020 2:22 PM
I'm still waiting or Paul to show us where I said I was unintelligent. OR where I said ANYthing about how much ed after high school I do or don't possess. Aren't lawyers supposed to prove their assertions??

(it's true I got a C- in typing.)



How does anyone get a C- in typing. I got a B typing left handed. My right arm was in a cast.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/10/2020 2:30 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/10/2020 2:22 PM
I'm still waiting or Paul to show us where I said I was unintelligent. OR where I said ANYthing about how much ed after high school I do or don't possess. Aren't lawyers supposed to prove their assertions??

(it's true I got a C- in typing.)




Just look at all of your posts. That proves my point. You're too dumb to realize that you're dumb. Just enjoy being blissfully ignorant.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/10/2020 2:45 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/10/2020 2:22 PM
I'm still waiting or Paul to show us where I said I was unintelligent. OR where I said ANYthing about how much ed after high school I do or don't possess. Aren't lawyers supposed to prove their assertions??

(it's true I got a C- in typing.)




You're too stupid to even use a "FIND" box.

Look at your post 7314.

Please!
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7397


07/10/2020 2:57 PM  
You know, Paul? I'm really surprised that you've lowered your elite self to name-calling. The folks I know with a really special advanced degree or degrees from elite universities simply don't talk like you do. That is one reason I have trouble believing your story about yourself.

Oh, no you don't, Paul. You claimed I labelled myself as unintelligent waaaay before my post 7314. Now, it says I earned a C- in typing. Since when does typing skill became a measure of intelligence?


You cannot prove I called my self unintelligent and you won't admit you are wrong. That's OK. just back off so you don't embarrass yourself further.

(And why in the world does MarkW keep talking about his amazing achievements???)
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/10/2020 2:58 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/10/2020 2:57 PM
You know, Paul? I'm really surprised that you've lowered your elite self to name-calling. The folks I know with a really special advanced degree or degrees from elite universities simply don't talk like you do. That is one reason I have trouble believing your story about yourself.

Oh, no you don't, Paul. You claimed I labelled myself as unintelligent waaaay before my post 7314. Now, it says I earned a C- in typing. Since when does typing skill became a measure of intelligence?


You cannot prove I called my self unintelligent and you won't admit you are wrong. That's OK. just back off so you don't embarrass yourself further.

(And why in the world does MarkW keep talking about his amazing achievements???)




KerryL1:

You're dumb.

Just accept it and enjoy it.
MarkW18


Posts:1290


07/10/2020 3:13 PM  
We won't say anything if you want to throw in a few of yours.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/10/2020 3:15 PM  
Posted By MarkW18 on 07/10/2020 3:13 PM
We won't say anything if you want to throw in a few of yours.




Her typing has improved somewhat since her C- grade. I'll give her that.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2902


07/10/2020 4:30 PM  
Damn, but this is funnier and funnier.

Perhaps Paul simply doesn’t have any friends and is constantly wondering why?

Could just be genetically unlikeable?
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7397


07/10/2020 5:27 PM  
I'm having fun, too, George. But, Paul won't prove that I call myself unintelligent as he asserts I did. What kind of lawyer is that?
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2902


07/10/2020 5:44 PM  
I dunno, maybe the ivy didn’t wear off onto him as he imagined it would?

Maybe his parents had that late evening discussion that began with, “Honey, Paul seems unable to make friends ... maybe we should get a loan so he can attend a really nice college, meet the right people, who might overlook his personality issues?”
MarkW18


Posts:1290


07/10/2020 6:22 PM  
Paul

I wouldn't pay much mind as it's these type of people reaching out for desperately needed help.
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:352


07/10/2020 6:24 PM  
Popcorn, popcorn, get your popcorn!
MarkW18


Posts:1290


07/10/2020 6:41 PM  
Nope, have my chips and salsa relaxing at my campsite in Julian. This is..well..kinda fun.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/11/2020 6:21 AM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/10/2020 5:27 PM
I'm having fun, too, George. But, Paul won't prove that I call myself unintelligent as he asserts I did. What kind of lawyer is that?




As I've stated, you've effectively admitted to being unintelligent, in this thread alone:

1. You gave us information about a poor grade in a simple subject.
2. You gave us information about your educational background.
3. You have shown your inability to accurately read (as your statement above is not what I stated before).
4. You have made false statements about your own prior posts in the same thread, indicating an inability to remember or use basic search functions on the internet, unless you were lying in one or more posts.

I've lowered myself and acted out of line by engaging in discussions with you. While all are welcome to continue posting in this board, I think that you also should find a like-minded group of simpletons and engage in discussions on your level, using one-syllable words and simple concepts. That might work better.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2902


07/11/2020 6:37 AM  
Ah, more name calling from the Ivy League attorney?

More and more humorous with each post 😀
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/11/2020 8:05 AM  
And, Kerry, you also should find people who will tolerate your scolding and hen-picking in real life. That might give you an outlet for your behavior. As long as they have IQs below 90, you'll have found your soulmates.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/11/2020 8:06 AM  
Correction: hen-pecking.
AugustinD


Posts:3683


07/11/2020 10:12 AM  
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 1:29 PM
Posted By AugustinD on 07/10/2020 1:14 PM
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/10/2020 12:39 PM
And Kerry doesn't have any credentials worth mentioning,
How do you know this?

Do you even know that "appeal to authority" is logically fallacious?


[snip nonsense from PaulJ6]
It seems to me you're the one too uneducated to realize that "appeal to authority" is logically fallacious.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/11/2020 10:23 AM  
AugustinD, I don't have any gripe with you, so I'm not going to engage in an argument.

This thread is a disgrace, in large part due to me, I'll concede. I can do better, you can do better and most of us can do better.

KerryL1 is trying her best.
AugustinD


Posts:3683


07/11/2020 10:27 AM  
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/11/2020 10:23 AM
This thread is a disgrace, in large part due to me, I'll concede. I can do better, you can do better and most of us can do better.

KerryL1 is trying her best.
With that line, it appears to me that you are not even trying.

You will have a gripe from me any time you try an "appeal to authority" in the future.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/11/2020 10:36 AM  
AugustinD: you've been one of the few on this board who hasn't fallen into the trap of name-calling, juvenile antics, and other bad behavior. I've fallen into that trap, I'll admit, and it is not productive and reflects poorly on me and others who do the same.

Don't fall into that trap. Until the last or two, your posts have stayed professional and you've taken the high road.

Stay on the high road. Arguing with people online does not achieve anything; as someone who's done that, I can attest to it.

Return to being your old self and it'll serve you the best.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2902


07/11/2020 10:50 AM  
And, now adult sounding advice ... following the name calling.

Seems hard to imagine, but it gets sadly, even more humorous.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/11/2020 10:53 AM  
AugustinD, your recent posts that have strayed from top professionalism are recent.

There's hope for you--just quickly return to your old ways.

Don't fall into the trap of anger, name-calling and more that I've fallen into. You can do better.
AugustinD


Posts:3683


07/11/2020 10:56 AM  
PaulJ6, when you reject the use of "appeals to authority," you will have my applause.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/11/2020 11:01 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 07/11/2020 10:56 AM
PaulJ6, when you reject the use of "appeals to authority," you will have my applause.




AugustinD, others are giving you an olive branch.

I would suggest that you consider taking it instead of trying to argue.

If this board is representative of homeowners' association leaders, it's no wonder that people loathe HOAs. Again, I'm in large part responsible for the poor behavior on this board.
AugustinD


Posts:3683


07/11/2020 11:07 AM  
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/11/2020 11:01 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 07/11/2020 10:56 AM
PaulJ6, when you reject the use of "appeals to authority," you will have my applause.


AugustinD, others are giving you an olive branch.
I am not at war.

If you insist on continuing to use "appeals to authority," you will have my response that this reflects a lack of education (and manners, as far as I am concerned).
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/11/2020 11:11 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 07/11/2020 11:07 AM
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/11/2020 11:01 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 07/11/2020 10:56 AM
PaulJ6, when you reject the use of "appeals to authority," you will have my applause.


AugustinD, others are giving you an olive branch.
I am not at war.

If you insist on continuing to use "appeals to authority," you will have my response that this reflects a lack of education (and manners, as far as I am concerned).




AugustinD- enough.

You've made your statement about "appeals to authority" several times.

I haven't responded to it directly. And I'm not going to.

Move on.

Best wishes.
AugustinD


Posts:3683


07/11/2020 11:34 AM  
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/11/2020 11:11 AM
You've made your statement about "appeals to authority" several times.

I haven't responded to it directly. And I'm not going to.
Yup, that's your right. But if in the future you continue to insist on the superiority of Ivy League law school grads to HOA attorneys, expect that I will again raise the issue of your argument being logically fallacious and unbecoming of any (Ivy or otherwise) law school graduate.

I do appreciate your owning your part in taking this thread south.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/11/2020 11:51 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 07/11/2020 11:34 AM
Posted By PaulJ6 on 07/11/2020 11:11 AM
You've made your statement about "appeals to authority" several times.

I haven't responded to it directly. And I'm not going to.
Yup, that's your right. But if in the future you continue to insist on the superiority of Ivy League law school grads to HOA attorneys, expect that I will again raise the issue of your argument being logically fallacious and unbecoming of any (Ivy or otherwise) law school graduate.

I do appreciate your owning your part in taking this thread south.




Sure, and to again state my position: HOA attorneys are less ethical, less professional and less competent than attorneys generally. Ivy League or not.

Those attributes can be objectively measured by things such as disciplinary actions, pay, LSAT scores, etc.

I stand by them. You're welcome to find measurable attributes that show that HOA lawyers are better than or equal other lawyers in objective ways. Perhaps things such as client retention do show that, but overall, I stand by my position, as it's a measurable, objective position. Ivy League or not.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7397


07/11/2020 1:39 PM  

Paul wrote "As I've stated, you've effectively admitted to being unintelligent, in this thread alone: 1. You gave us information about a poor grade in a simple subject." Typing skill has never correlated with intelligence.

Paul wrote: "2. You gave us information about your educational background."
I wrote I'd attended community college. Flawed reasoning skills led you to draw the conclusion that my formal education ended there. I'm also a certified dental assistant. But perhaps my formal education did not end there, either. In addition I was a licensed CA realtor. But perhaps my formal eduction did not end there.

Paul wrote: "3. You have shown your inability to accurately read (as your statement above is not what I stated before)." Your statement, top of page herein, is what you claim. I already showed that it rests on marred assumptions.

Paul wrote: "4. You have made false statements about your own prior posts in the same thread, indicating an inability to remember or use basic search functions on the internet, unless you were lying in one or more posts." If you were in court, you'd have to supply evidence of this charge. Please do so. Direct quotes from me are best. Now, as in the past, you very well may write that you don't want to argue or fight. But to accuse me of perhaps "lying" are fighting words. Prove it.

A word about community colleges. Their faculties often are excellent teachers as that's their sole job-- no pressure to publish. For adults with skimpy means or lousy high school records, community colleges are a welcoming path to a four-year institution or to enhanced occupational skills. I believe that some posters here attended or graduated from community colleges and, I say, good for you!


PaulJ6


Posts:0


07/11/2020 1:51 PM  
KerryL1, I've expressed regret for taking this thread south. I previously apologized to you for some prior things that I said.

As you can see from AugustinD's posts, he's determined to stay on the high road. I'm determined to get back on the high road.

Others apologize to you and change their ways, but you keep at it.

You're welcome to join us on the high road, but you don't have to. Your choice.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2902


07/11/2020 2:51 PM  
Wow.

Seriously, Paul, I hope those that come to this website for help, will see your comments - and - judge you accordingly.

And, after judging you - those that need help will listen more to the others herein - the non-childish, bullying, non-name calling folks who earnestly want to help them.

Ivy League, indeed.

Damn, but that is still funny when I think it while reading your posts.
MarkW18


Posts:1290


07/11/2020 3:22 PM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 07/11/2020 2:51 PM
Wow.

Seriously, Paul, I hope those that come to this website for help, will see your comments - and - judge you accordingly.

And, after judging you - those that need help will listen more to the others herein - the non-childish, bullying, non-name calling folks who earnestly want to help them.

Ivy League, indeed.

Damn, but that is still funny when I think it while reading your posts.



Speaking of unintelligent, thanks for all your helpful comments with the OP question!
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Page 2 of 3 << < 123 > >>
Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Does your HOA have an HOA Attorney ?



Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.







General Legal Notice:  The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com.  Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship.  Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.  HOATalk is not a licensed attorney, CPA, tax advisor, financial advisor or any other licensed professional.  HOATalk accepts ads from sponsors but does not verify sponsor qualifications nor endorse/guarantee any sponsor's product or service.
Legal Notice For Messages Posted by Sponsoring Attorneys: This message has been prepared by the sponsoring attorney for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send any sponsoring attorney confidential information unless you speak with the sponsoring attorney or an attorney from the sponsoring attorney’s firm and get authorization to send that information to them. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in the firm of the sponsoring attorney. Sponsoring attorneys that post messages here are licensed to practice law in a specific state or states as indicated in their message signature or sponsor’s profile page. (NOTE: A ‘sponsoring attorney’ is an attorney that is a HOATalk.com official sponsor and is identified as such in the posted message or on our sponsor page.)

Copyright HOA Talk.com, A Service of Community123 LLC ( Homeowners Association Discussions )   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement