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Subject: Pool Closure due to Non Compliance of Health Department Regulations.
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Author Messages
MichelleC8
(California)

Posts:43


06/26/2020 2:59 PM  

I hope everyone is doing ok with COVID19. It's a real serious matter in Los Angeles County. While the bulk of people have good common sense about regulations and such it has proven to be a problem with our pool.

We are following our city department of health. They have stringent regulations for multiple residency pool area. It required hourly cleaning of furniture etc. Our board opted to remove our furniture in order to comply with the city regulations. There are others but they are simple to follow

No more than one household in the pool or spa area ( its all one area ). Wear facial coverings entering or exiting.

We noticed owners and residents of these regulations via notices on doors, and postings on the front gate to the pool area.

Within one week we saw 2 units with kids all playing together in the pool while the parents sat around the jacuzzi shoulder to shoulder. We had another unit inviting his friends over to use the pool not obeying the above and there was s 3rd incident.

The board decided to close the pool because we can't police the units, and they are not following regulations set by the health dept. Now that ws the easy part. The pool is closed for now. What next? As our area is increasing with COVID19 we are just trying to be responsible about what we need to be as an HOA.

We have owners trying to challenge this, stating county vs. city guidelines. and so simple. We have regulations to follow. If we can't we could be held liable for the city violation.

It sounds black and white. but it's not. ANY suggestions.

Its such strange times we are in.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7333


06/26/2020 5:14 PM  
Tough situation, MichelleC. Please clarify: It seems you wrote that only one household or individual could use the entire pool area at one time?

Is your Board trying to comply with the County? Or City? In the words what is the complaint concerning the difference between those two entities?

You did the right thing by closing the pool again. We too removed a lot but not all furniture.

But, moving on. Our condo pool rules during COVID & reopening does not allow guests. We allow 8 persons in the pool area and 2 in the spa, 3, if 2 are members of the same household. Masks must be worn while not swimming or exercising in the pool.

We would fine Owners if they or their renters broke that and other Emergency Rules. You can even call an Emergency board meting to vote on these "Emergency Rules." You do not have to send them out for 28-days of Owner comment. Your Board might consider making Emergency Rules about the pool/spa area. This means you can set fines for violations with hearings & due process.

Unless, though, you're willing and able to enforce these temporary rules, you might as well keep the pool area closed. Do you have a security staff?

I admit out situation is probably easier since we don't have many pool users & very few children in our urban high rise.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9413


06/26/2020 5:25 PM  
You can tell them it's your choice. Do you want the HOA to close the pool or the Health Department? Guess what? The health department shuts it down you are all screwed. Why? Cause there is a LOT of stuff you have to do and comply to before they let you open up again. It can be very expensive and it may not ever open again.

So if you can not play "nice" and follow the rules, then you do not get to play at all.

Former HOA President
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:989


06/27/2020 9:34 AM  
All it takes is one person to ruin it for everybody. It is utterly impossible to enforce social distancing in a pool with kids at play. Officially our play set is still closed. Since it does not have a gate that surrounds it, we erected notices that the area was closed. WE sent out letters directly to every home as well. Someone kept tearing down the yellow cation tape and signs. When security does their random patrol, they will eject any violators. Three times in as many weekends, we also had people break into the pool and swim. Finally we caught the B#stards and are prosecuting them. Funny thing tho, they live in a nearby apartment complex.

I was honestly hoping for some positive news here in Nevada, hoping for a phase 3, but with increased testing, more confirmed infections are diagnosed and Phase 3 is put on hold.

MichelleC8
(California)

Posts:43


06/27/2020 9:47 AM  
We are under City Department if Health Regs. We have the printed regulations for multiple unit pool use. We are just trying to follow rules. To make it worse we had asked owners to please limit jacuzzi ans pool use to 30 min jacuzzi AND 1 hour pool. The perpetrators were down at the site 4+ hours.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9413


06/27/2020 9:55 AM  
Well then at this point stop the HOA involvement and bring in the city. No one wants to play right, then report it to the city to investigate the violations. They will then fine the HOA for the violations or force them to shut it down. So next meeting when the HOA gets a HUGE fine or has to explain the closure, they can say "City regulations" forced it not ours.

Former HOA President
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:989


06/27/2020 12:50 PM  
One of the compelling reasons why we did not open our pool was because their would be no way of fencing off the jacuzzi to keep people out of it. Jacuzzis are on the no go list. We simply could not put caution tape on it because we all know how that worked out in the park.

We only have two or three people that are on Nextdoor saying the BOD is making people suffer on purpose. Here is my assessment on the matter.

Nobody wants their assessments raised, prices increase annually and really good boards can manage the cost by shuffling services etc.

It is now the middle of the year, boards have razor thin margins to absorb added cost like hiring pool monitors, more cleaning services etc. to comply with health department regs over COVID

What does the future hold? Obviously regular cost are going to be increased, that is going to include not only pool and especially janitorial services, will landscaping services increase as well?

Will the frequency of janitorial and pool servicing be required in the future?

Even though those associations that waited it out and did not open their pools and gyms, will their insurances premiums increase?

Will State & Local Taxes and especially "FEES" increase to offset budget shortfalls?

This is just the start of it, am I wrong?

Here is another thing to ponder, Last year The Southern Nevada Health District had on their board agenda to compel public, HOA & Apartment pools to install automatic "feeders" for chemical treatment
for pools and jacuzzis. The equipment cost are about $25,000.00 to comply. Luckily the SNHD faced some backlash from the HOA lobby and let that agenda item expire.

The million dollar question is, will that agenda item come back?

Boards that are not opening their pools & gyms right now are doing the right thing, time will tell when budgets come in to play at the end of the year, and don't have to call a special assessment in 2021.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7333


06/27/2020 12:50 PM  
So, Michelle, why hasn't your board called violators to hearings & fined them? Is it because your Board din't bother making correct Emergency Rules?
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9577


06/27/2020 4:38 PM  
Mich

Might I suggest notifying owners that do to "several" owners not following "mandated" pool guidelines, the BOD is considering shutting down the pool until further notice.
MichelleC8
(California)

Posts:43


06/28/2020 1:08 PM  
honey, no need to be so negative. We have not had time. It JUST happened Thursday. We have closed the pool and therefore our issue is no more. But seriously we haven't had the chance to pull them into a hearing yet!
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7333


06/28/2020 3:29 PM  
Sorry I didn't make my question clearer, Michelle. Why didn't your Board call the earlier violators to hearings? The ones you mention in your OP?
MarkW18


Posts:1195


06/28/2020 4:20 PM  
My opinion is just close the area, until this pandemic is completely over, unless your association has employees on staff that can comply completely with county and state official guidelines.with
MichelleC8
(California)

Posts:43


06/28/2020 5:48 PM  
Calm down. It just happened! We will call them
For a hearing! But for now this is where we are!!
MarshallT
(New York)

Posts:78


06/29/2020 6:15 AM  
Hi Michelle,

Just because you can reopen your pool doesn't mean you have to reopen it. You've done the right thing. I'm sorry that some owners are challenging this decision, but regardless of whether you were following city or county guidelines, it doesn't sound like all of your members can conduct themselves in a safe manner.

Staying safe is the main priority right now.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9577


06/29/2020 8:21 AM  
Posted By MarkW18 on 06/28/2020 4:20 PM
My opinion is just close the area, until this pandemic is completely over, unless your association has employees on staff that can comply completely with county and state official guidelines.with




I agree.
MichelleC8
(California)

Posts:43


06/29/2020 2:16 PM  
Seriosuly, there is a petition to recall the board going around...over this.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:1077


06/29/2020 3:08 PM  
Have you talked to your insurance agent, and what is his/her take on this? It could be useful if your agent tells you that the HOA will lose its insurance over failure to comply with health regs and individual homeowners will become personally liable and will need to purchase additional insurance of their own. Probably won't happen, but it would be nice if you could give these clueless folks a wake up call.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9577


06/29/2020 4:01 PM  
Posted By MichelleC8 on 06/29/2020 2:16 PM
Seriosuly, there is a petition to recall the board going around...over this.




There are procedures to recall a BOD or BOD Member and via petition is not one of them.

Time for your BOD to go on the offense. Cite the fact that there were violators of the local restrictions that caused the decision to close the pool plus the additional costs (assessments maybe) that would be needed to be incurred to meet local regulations.
MarkW18


Posts:1195


06/29/2020 8:39 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/29/2020 4:01 PM
Posted By MichelleC8 on 06/29/2020 2:16 PM
Seriosuly, there is a petition to recall the board going around...over this.




There are procedures to recall a BOD or BOD Member and via petition is not one of them.

Time for your BOD to go on the offense. Cite the fact that there were violators of the local restrictions that caused the decision to close the pool plus the additional costs (assessments maybe) that would be needed to be incurred to meet local regulations.



Actually, a signed petition by 5% of the membership to call for a meeting at which a board member or whole board is recalled is one of the procedures.
MichelleC8
(California)

Posts:43


06/29/2020 9:45 PM  
That is correct 5% is required by DSA in California. Fun part is our annual election is less than 60 days away.. lmao
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9577


06/30/2020 8:45 AM  
Posted By MarkW18 on 06/29/2020 8:39 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/29/2020 4:01 PM
Posted By MichelleC8 on 06/29/2020 2:16 PM
Seriosuly, there is a petition to recall the board going around...over this.




There are procedures to recall a BOD or BOD Member and via petition is not one of them.

Time for your BOD to go on the offense. Cite the fact that there were violators of the local restrictions that caused the decision to close the pool plus the additional costs (assessments maybe) that would be needed to be incurred to meet local regulations.



Actually, a signed petition by 5% of the membership to call for a meeting at which a board member or whole board is recalled is one of the procedures.




I understand this. It is a step in a recall but the OP led me to believe she thought the reason for the petition in her case was for a recall. Not the 1st step in the process.

In my HOA it is 10% for a Special Meeting but 51% of all owners needing to vote yes to recall an owner elected BOD Member. Yes, 51% of ALL owners. In my view, an impossible task in my HOA but fortunately we have never considered nor needed to.
MarkW18


Posts:1195


06/30/2020 9:48 AM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/30/2020 8:45 AM
Posted By MarkW18 on 06/29/2020 8:39 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/29/2020 4:01 PM
Posted By MichelleC8 on 06/29/2020 2:16 PM
Seriosuly, there is a petition to recall the board going around...over this.




There are procedures to recall a BOD or BOD Member and via petition is not one of them.

Time for your BOD to go on the offense. Cite the fact that there were violators of the local restrictions that caused the decision to close the pool plus the additional costs (assessments maybe) that would be needed to be incurred to meet local regulations.



Actually, a signed petition by 5% of the membership to call for a meeting at which a board member or whole board is recalled is one of the procedures.




I understand this. It is a step in a recall but the OP led me to believe she thought the reason for the petition in her case was for a recall. Not the 1st step in the process.

In my HOA it is 10% for a Special Meeting but 51% of all owners needing to vote yes to recall an owner elected BOD Member. Yes, 51% of ALL owners. In my view, an impossible task in my HOA but fortunately we have never considered nor needed to.



Actually, the specific reason for the petition must be stated on the petition signed by the owners.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9577


06/30/2020 3:26 PM  
Posted By MarkW18 on 06/30/2020 9:48 AM
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/30/2020 8:45 AM
Posted By MarkW18 on 06/29/2020 8:39 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/29/2020 4:01 PM
Posted By MichelleC8 on 06/29/2020 2:16 PM
Seriosuly, there is a petition to recall the board going around...over this.




There are procedures to recall a BOD or BOD Member and via petition is not one of them.

Time for your BOD to go on the offense. Cite the fact that there were violators of the local restrictions that caused the decision to close the pool plus the additional costs (assessments maybe) that would be needed to be incurred to meet local regulations.



Actually, a signed petition by 5% of the membership to call for a meeting at which a board member or whole board is recalled is one of the procedures.




I understand this. It is a step in a recall but the OP led me to believe she thought the reason for the petition in her case was for a recall. Not the 1st step in the process.

In my HOA it is 10% for a Special Meeting but 51% of all owners needing to vote yes to recall an owner elected BOD Member. Yes, 51% of ALL owners. In my view, an impossible task in my HOA but fortunately we have never considered nor needed to.



Actually, the specific reason for the petition must be stated on the petition signed by the owners.




That is hw understand it and as I understand it, replacements mus be named such as recall Tom Smith and replace with Mary Jones. Also as I understand it, per my example, that and that alone is all that can be discussed voted on ala Mary replaces Tom.
MarkW18


Posts:1195


06/30/2020 3:39 PM  
California statues are different than other states. Then there is cumulative voting to take into consider and whether an individual or a whole board is recalled. If the whole board is recalled then there has to be an at the same time.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:3307


07/01/2020 12:46 PM  
Meh. Just because there's a petition floating around doesn't mean enough people will sign it to get the special meeting. As others have said, a petition isn't the same as a formal vote to keep or recall the board. A meeting could be held and the vote could fail.

Worry about all that if and when it happens. In the meantime, I agree with John - send a letter to everyone explaining why the pool was closed, how much it would cost for supplies and whatever else is necessary to reduce the risk for everyone. Those expenses won't go away, even if the board gets sacked. Then ask for suggestions on what could be done to keep the pool open and follow county guidelines. That will likely shut people up or at least pop a large hole in the recall push.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9577


07/01/2020 2:41 PM  
Posted By MarkW18 on 06/30/2020 3:39 PM
California statues are different than other states. Then there is cumulative voting to take into consider and whether an individual or a whole board is recalled. If the whole board is recalled then there has to be an at the same time.



\ur original Bylaws allowed for Cumulative Voting. The Advisory BOD (which I was on) had the Declarant remove it before turn over. Other big change was original Bylaws said Proxies not allowed. We had him remove that also.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7333


07/01/2020 5:24 PM  
Shila's advice make sense.
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