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Subject: Motorcycle definition
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Author Messages
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2681


05/22/2020 7:15 AM  
This is to the letter? Seriously?

OP posted ... “ That's actually one of the options I was thinking. A non-running motorcycle for $200. But if I could, I want to do with smaller motorcycle because keeping storage space is the whole point of doing this.“
AugustinD


Posts:3364


05/22/2020 7:22 AM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 05/22/2020 7:15 AM
This is to the letter? Seriously?

OP posted ... “ That's actually one of the options I was thinking. A non-running motorcycle for $200. But if I could, I want to do with smaller motorcycle because keeping storage space is the whole point of doing this.“
GeorgeS21, It seems to me that the real problem for you is that the covenants define "authorized vehicle" to includes motorcycles, running or non-running, cars, running or non-running, et cetera. This should be addressed by amending the covenants, not by dumping on HOA members who are in fact complying with the covenants when they park a motorcycle, running or non-running, in the garage under the OP's circumstances.

I do not support the OP, say, throwing a tarp over a bicycle and claiming this is a motorcycle. It's too close to 'Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.'

I say: Follow the covenants, period.
AugustinD


Posts:3364


05/22/2020 7:31 AM  
Posted By TimM11 on 05/22/2020 7:02 AM
No HOA resident has any obligation to follow the spirit or implied meaning of the docs, because that's going to look differently to different people. Only the actual text matters, thus the need for them to be carefully worded.
I think the above expresses well the purpose of written-down law: It helps ensure a stable society by giving everyone the same written page from which to work. Judges and Supreme Court justices (state and federal) look first at the "plain meaning" of the words of a statute (or contractual term or covenant et cetera). Judges and justices would rather find a covenant ambiguous than go guessing at intent that simply is unclear within the text of the statute, contractual term or covenant. Why? Because guessing at intent is not fair and does not offer stability to the masses, on account of different people will have different guesses.

CathyA3 could probably express this better than I.
BryanL4
(California)

Posts:21


05/22/2020 8:48 AM  
Posted By MarkW18 on 05/21/2020 6:59 PM
Posted By BryanL4 on 05/21/2020 12:09 PM
Posted By MarkW18 on 05/20/2020 9:26 PM


If this HOA is as the OP stated and unless the association has a parking problem, this section would not be enforceable. I know from experience from a HOA in Porter Ranch, CA





There is parking problem because some neighbors use their garage sorely as storage and take up street parking spaces to park their cars.
It would be ideal if HOA enforce this rule against those who park on the street only, then it would become a selective enforcement if I understand right.
I think this is why our HOA is trying to enforce this rule to everyone regardless you take up street parking space or not.





Is there a parking problem or are owners using the street to park their car. Based on your posting of the CCRs, the association is not addressing a "parking problem". Again, speaking from experience.




They did not address any parking problem in the violation notice I received. It just said that I have to park 2 vehicles in the garage. But I heard from neighbors that the reason HOA is enforcing this is to free up more street parking space for guests etc...
BryanL4
(California)

Posts:21


05/22/2020 9:04 AM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 05/22/2020 7:15 AM
This is to the letter? Seriously?

OP posted ... “ That's actually one of the options I was thinking. A non-running motorcycle for $200. But if I could, I want to do with smaller motorcycle because keeping storage space is the whole point of doing this.“




Yes. That is to the letter.

Our CCR simply says a motorcycle is an authorized vehicle. CCR did not specify that it must be a running vehicle.
CCR did not provide any definition of motorcycle. So how you define a "motorcycle" is up in the air.
Someone could go with a simple English dictionary definition which says "a 2 wheeled vehicle with a motor". Then even your kid's $100 hover board is a motorcycle.
Or someone could argue that the definition from the state code must be used.



Again, it is to the letter. But the letter in our CCR is not clear enough.

BryanL4
(California)

Posts:21


05/22/2020 9:17 AM  
Posted By TimM11 on 05/22/2020 7:02 AM
No HOA resident has any obligation to follow the spirit or implied meaning of the docs, because that's going to look differently to different people. Only the actual text matters, thus the need for them to be carefully worded.




I agree.

Interpreting meaning or spirit of rule can be easily arbitrary which we all know illegal. That is a dangerous game.


BryanL4
(California)

Posts:21


05/22/2020 9:31 AM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 05/22/2020 5:41 AM
Augustin,

Not sure I understand ... I haven’t commented wrt changing CCRs.

My comments have been to note the OP is gaming the docs by procuring a motorcycle so he doesn’t have to park a second car in the garage.





You are blaming an home owner for not following the spirit of the rule.
How about an HOA that does not follow the spirit of the rule?

Let's look at this from the angle of HOA.

I am sure that HOA knows how silly this rule is and there is absolutely no benefit of enforcing this on someone like me who park all my cars either in my garage or driveway.
But HOA still required to enforce this rule, because they are required to follow the rule.

The spirit of this rule is probably to prevent people from parking their cars on the street instead of in their garage or driveway but not to harass some people like me.

If HOA considered the spirit of the rule, they won't enforce this on me. But they did not considered the spirit of the rule. Instead, they are just following the rule to the letter for whatever reason they have.

Now will you blame this HOA for not considering the spirit of the rule?

I personally, it would have been better if they considered the spirit of the rule and left me alone.
But they chose to not look at the spirit of the rule but to follow it to the letter so I am doing the same.

So, what's the problem then?

GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2681


05/22/2020 4:30 PM  
This is pretty simple.

The OP wants to game the rules ... sure, it is nearly always possible to do so.

Is it important? Nah, but it points to the time being spent figuring out a way to avoid being compliant with the rules - versus, simply abiding by the rules.

I would like to hear how the OP will work with the others in the neighborhood to change the rules - THAT would be a good way for the OP to spend the time. Then, instead of just being special, the OP could do the hard work so that everyone would have the opportunity he seeks.
MarkW18


Posts:1067


05/22/2020 4:58 PM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 05/22/2020 4:30 PM
This is pretty simple.

The OP wants to game the rules ... sure, it is nearly always possible to do so.

Is it important? Nah, but it points to the time being spent figuring out a way to avoid being compliant with the rules - versus, simply abiding by the rules.

I would like to hear how the OP will work with the others in the neighborhood to change the rules - THAT would be a good way for the OP to spend the time. Then, instead of just being special, the OP could do the hard work so that everyone would have the opportunity he seeks.



Do you have a problem with a renter parking 10 cars in the community, two in the garage two in the driveway and 6 on the street?
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2681


05/22/2020 5:24 PM  
Not about me ... it is about another community.
MarkW18


Posts:1067


05/22/2020 5:32 PM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 05/22/2020 5:24 PM
Not about me ... it is about another community.



Then, if not about you, WHY are you even commenting?
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2681


05/22/2020 6:09 PM  
You asked.

If you don’t like my answer ...
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