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Subject: ARC requiring LICENSE and INSURANCE.
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Author Messages
MarcC4
(South Carolina)

Posts:27


05/08/2020 11:48 AM  
We feel the ARC Architecture Review Board can require applications for construction to include a copy of the company’s business license and proof of insurance.

Insurance will protect the HOA from anything bad happening as caused by the vendor.

Should an application be denied for not using an insured vendor?

Thoughts?
MarkW18


Posts:1067


05/08/2020 11:52 AM  
We feel?
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9461


05/08/2020 12:02 PM  
Marc

What type structures is you association? If standalone homes (no shared walls) I doubt you could ask for such.
MarcC4
(South Carolina)

Posts:27


05/08/2020 12:15 PM  
Stand alone homes. HOA structure with ARC approval for all work.
Fences are sometimes attached to other neighbor fences. We require written approval to attach to someone else’s fence.
We also require a business lic and insurance for such work to be done. They are on other lawns, sometimes hitting gas lines if they are a bad vendor.
Some bad vendors putting in low quality work and the fences are falling over due to poor footings.
We want to maintain a quality Neighborhood.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:3224


05/08/2020 1:02 PM  
For work that has impact like fences being attached to a neighbor's fence, I'd require the license, but that's probably the most you can do. I understand about bad vendors doing sloppy work, but the homeowners need to have enough sense to hire someone who will do work that will improve THEIR property. If they're too damned cheap to do their due diligence in selecting a quality contractor, they need to face the consequences.

That said, it may be helpful to run some educational articles in your newsletter or post on your website about the importance of checking for licenses (and performance bonds), complaint records, making sure the person has a street address and not just a PO Box or cell phone, etc. You can get that information from the consumer protection division in your state (try the Attorney General's Office) and run their information brochures.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2681


05/08/2020 1:23 PM  
Marc,

I'm a bit fuzzy on this ... do your docs allow the HOA to dictate insurance requirements for repairs, new construction, landscaping, etc?

Trying to logic this out ...

Let's say I submit an ARC request to replace my roof with exactly the same color - you're saying the ARC can deny the request because the HOA believes the contractor doesn't have insurance?

Let's say I submit an ARC request to change the color on my front door - does the ARC insist on insurance for this? What if I have it replaced with "new construction" necessary to change the type of door?

How does the ARC confirm the insurance is current or sufficient for the type of construction?

Trying to compare this to our process.
MarcC4
(South Carolina)

Posts:27


05/08/2020 1:46 PM  
Good questions.
We actually ask for the license, insurance certificate and contract terms.
We FOR THE FIRST TIME have somebody who says the fence vendor does not have insurance.
So this is a new situation.
A few weeks ago a fence vendor hit a gas line. Emergency trucks had to come out.
What if there had been an explosion?
Explosion with no insurance.
I think if the vendor has no insurance we can ask for a NAMED INSURED cert from the homeowner’s insurance.
Which I do not think they would give due to it being a commercial activity not covered by vendor work. Not sure about that tho.
BenA2
(Texas)

Posts:707


05/08/2020 1:54 PM  
If your CC&Rs require proof of license and insurance or there is a law authorizing it, yes. If it's not in the CC&Rs and there is no law, then no.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9306


05/08/2020 2:49 PM  
We had a policy that ONLY licensed and Insured vendors. It would be a concern if this person wasn't carrying insurance. No the HOA's insurance should not be picking it up for anyone.

So I have no reason why the ARC or the HOA would not make this a requirement for vendors. If an electrician installed a light fixture and the clubhouse burns down, do you want the HOA to pay for it or the vendor?

Former HOA President
MarkW18


Posts:1067


05/08/2020 2:53 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/08/2020 2:49 PM
We had a policy that ONLY licensed and Insured vendors. It would be a concern if this person wasn't carrying insurance. No the HOA's insurance should not be picking it up for anyone.

So I have no reason why the ARC or the HOA would not make this a requirement for vendors. If an electrician installed a light fixture and the clubhouse burns down, do you want the HOA to pay for it or the vendor?



Think they are referring to work done on the OWNERS property.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9306


05/08/2020 3:04 PM  
Still would require the owner to do this. It's just plain stupid not to hire a licensed and insured contractor. what if the owner's house burns down and catches others too? What if damages common property? The HOA should not be picking up the bill for any unlicensed and uninsured vendors.

Former HOA President
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2681


05/08/2020 3:27 PM  
Melissa,

I don’t think you’re making sense.

This isn’t about what you think should be, but about what the docs and laws require.

You used the word “policy” ... you have a doc that says “policy?” And, you think this is enforceable on single family houses?
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9306


05/08/2020 3:35 PM  
How about just good business practice?

Former HOA President
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2681


05/08/2020 3:43 PM  
See, you just shifted to another topic entirely.

Should, ought to, prefer, good biz practice, policy, stupid not to ... all have no bearing on the answer to the question asked.
MarcC4
(South Carolina)

Posts:27


05/08/2020 3:48 PM  
Yes. This is a homeowner who applied for approval for a fence on their property. We asked for license and proof of insurance.
We were told the vendor does not have insurance.

CC&R gives ARC to establish any rules or regulations... etc.

There is nothing in the CCR that specifically mentions insured vendors. Just that the Board can make rules and requirements.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2681


05/08/2020 4:06 PM  
Then, I would suggest the ARC and the Board and the HOA are in thin ice ... unless those rules have been stated and accepted as real in some manner.

It does not sound like this is the case - it sounds, rather like the ARC believes they can do this ... or that it is a policy ...

Is this in writing anywhere? With references as to why it is in writing?
MarcC4
(South Carolina)

Posts:27


05/08/2020 4:32 PM  
Yes.
The board “can do anything necessary or desirable, including, but not limited to establishing any rules or regulations with the Association deems necessary to carry out the purposes of the association as set forth herein or as permitted by law”

That seems to give broad power to require vendor insurance.

Thoughts?
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2681


05/08/2020 6:37 PM  
But, have those rules been established? In writing?
SamE2
(New Jersey)

Posts:258


05/09/2020 6:08 AM  
What if a homeowner is doing the work himself? Do you require certain dollar limits on homeowners carry on their homes. It seems to me you are trying to overstep your authority. If you are using this section to justify yourself The board “can do anything necessary or desirable, including, but not limited to establishing any rules or regulations with the Association deems necessary to carry out the purposes of the association as set forth herein or as permitted by law” then you have to look at the purpose of the association. I doubt the purposes of the association is to ensure homeowners hire vendors with insurance.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9306


05/09/2020 8:30 AM  
Sam I can do my own electrical work on my house without insurance or license. If I hire someone to do it, then the best business practice is to hire licensed/insured vendors. I don't know why common sense on how best to protect yourself or even the vendor is so hard to understand. It's not a rule or regulation thing. It's just good business and protection decision.

Former HOA President
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2681


05/09/2020 8:38 AM  
OK, Melissa, the point all this particular thread is not what is advisable - it relates, rather, to what Marc is asking about.

A quick aside, as an owner in Alabama, even though you can do you own electrical work, shouldn't it be inspected, or must it be inspected, and, shouldn't it be permitted and then inspected, or must it be permitted and inspected. And, then is it a state requirement that an contractors you have working have insurance - i.e. does licensing require insurance?
MarcC4
(South Carolina)

Posts:27


05/09/2020 9:07 AM  
We are a new HOA board who just took over from the developer. Much of the current paperwork is poorly written and we are trying to provide clarity and establish interpretations of the restrictions because most people don’t know how to read a legal document.
Some homeowner might say, “show me where it says XYZ is prohibited” and then you have to take the time to find all the general catch all legal phrases that prohibit it. Frustrating and time consuming, especially with some homeowners who have never lived in an HOA and their first order of business is to vote on dissolving the HOA because they don’t want to pay the dues. Crazy stuff.

So this particular question is about requiring liability insurance from vendors doing work on homeowners houses that require an ARC application approval.

How many HOAs ask for this?
Clearly, we don’t care about insurance for a painter who will paint a door, or a landscaper who will plant some bushes. But for in ground pools, solar panels, fence installs or other things that could effect an adjacent property or a common area.

Does that make sense so we can keep this discussion on track.

Thanks and I look forward to your input.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9461


05/09/2020 9:21 AM  
Marc

I am all for ARC control but with that said, I think you are reaching in demanding insurance, etc. I think the best you can demand is a building permit when required.
DeidreB
(Virginia)

Posts:86


05/09/2020 9:41 AM  
Marc our last HOA was a town home community with over 100 town homes. The CCR's were geared toward keeping town homes consistent in appearance and in accordance with original, outward appearance and design. The developer left us with a form for ARC approval that included requests for name, license and insurance of vendors for modifications (not routine maintenance). After a few years our HOA paid no attention to that info because we all (Board and MC) considered it the personal business of the homeowner and no language in the CC&R's touched on providing it. An aside, for the first one to two years, the ARC was very detailed and enthusiastic but this wore off over time so perhaps there was just no appetite for digging into that kind of detail after a while as well as seeing at as personal business. We also did not want to be in the business of approving vendors as we thought that could get messy and increase HOA liability in unseen ways.

Our current HOA is a smaller single family home HOA. CC&Rs are fairly permissive with exterior modifications and new additions requiring ARC approval if a new addition. No mention in CC&Rs of requiring vendor info. The developer also gave us the form they used during the developer control period that required the name, license and insurance of proposed vendors. A few people pushed back on providing this to them especially since they are single family homes with 1/3 acre to one half acre. The developer said they needed it to ensure quality control over vendors entering and doing work on their site which made sense to us. After HOA control was transferred to homeowners a few owners have left it blank on requests and we have not pursued it because we see it as their personal business. In the end if they do work on their lot that affects the neighbors' lot we see it as an issue between two neighbors. We see the ARC approval as ensuring the addition or modification meets HOA design guidelines for visual harmony. FYI, we have a robust county code enforcement system so there is not much that is uncovered by that.

I hope this as helpful and not off track.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2681


05/09/2020 9:43 AM  
Marc,

I'm still unclear about what you have IN WRITING.

Do you have specific provisions in your CCRs, that says you can enforce licensing and insurance provisions related to work going on in your community?
MarcC4
(South Carolina)

Posts:27


05/09/2020 10:00 AM  
This is very helpful information.

Do you have a copy of any of those ARC approval forms you can send to me? I would like to see them.

Clearly the developer of both of your HOAs thought to put a license and insurance requirement in the application form.

Your choice NOT to enforce? That is ok as well. Each Board will enforce as they see fit. Did the new board take the requirement OUT of the ARC application form or leave it in and just not enforce it?

I'm not really talking about enforcement issues here, but how many have this in their ARC applications.

It is appearing to me that it is common to do that.
MarcC4
(South Carolina)

Posts:27


05/09/2020 10:07 AM  
The CCR gives the board wide authority to make rules, policies etc. There are no less than 5 sections giving such authority. The ARC has wide authority to request any supporting document they see fit to assist in making an approval determinations. As I read it, the catch phrase before the list of required documents for approval states "AT A MINIMUM" so it allows for other documents to be supplied if requested.

At some point we will have to pay a lawyer and get a legal opinion and attach that to the application response I expect.

Since this is a new issue, we intend to put it to the homeowners in a vote and allow the majority to decide if vendors are allowed to do certain work if they are uninsured. I am all for letting the people speak. But in the meantime, prior to any vote, I am investigating what the options are and what other people are doing.
MarkW18


Posts:1067


05/09/2020 10:07 AM  
Curious, do you provide license and insurance information to all your homeowners when a vendor does work on the common areas?
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9306


05/09/2020 10:49 AM  
FYI: I don't need a license or inspection of my electrical system if I am replacing a ceiling fan or changing out outlets. Especially if I am doing my own work. You need inspections and code compliance on NEW builds. My work is simply repair or replacement purposes.

I am technically an Electrician. Went to college for it and have a degree in it. Have also wired up many houses through volunteer work. Even I would not hire an electrician to work on my house without a license and insurance. Hence I don't even do my own work on my house. In theory I could.

Former HOA President
MarcC4
(South Carolina)

Posts:27


05/09/2020 11:06 AM  
The work on common areas is contracted by our management company. They require licenses, proof of liability insurance and proof of workers comp to be a QUALIFIED VENDOR.
MarcC4
(South Carolina)

Posts:27


05/09/2020 11:09 AM  
My understanding is... if you hook up your own fan, and as a result your house ends up burning down, and the insurance investigator can determine that the fire was caused by improper non-compliant installation and you or someone admits that they installed the fan themselves and they are not licensed electricians they COULD deny your claim.

After I learned this I stopped doing all my own dimmers and fans. The liability exposure is just too much.
MarkW18


Posts:1067


05/09/2020 11:20 AM  
Posted By MarcC4 on 05/09/2020 11:06 AM
The work on common areas is contracted by our management company. They require licenses, proof of liability insurance and proof of workers comp to be a QUALIFIED VENDOR.



Do you supply that information to the homeowners was my question.
MarcC4
(South Carolina)

Posts:27


05/09/2020 11:24 AM  
It is available at the mgmt office for anyone requesting to see it, is my understanding.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2681


05/09/2020 12:50 PM  
Marc,

Does SC allow property owners to set deed-level restrictions (i.e. force of CCR) with a vote of the membership? If so, what percentage? Does it require, then, that the CCRs be modified? Does this require another vote? What are those percentages?

I'm getting more confused, sorry.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9461


05/09/2020 1:05 PM  
George

SC very much believes in letting a business (such as an HOA) run itself without state interference. State Rules and Regulations are filled with "unless your Corporate Bylaws (including Covenants) say otherwise". Thus the majority of how and what the association can do resides in the associations docs.

The OP (Marc) has said he reads his doc as giving the ARC control over anything done, how done and whom done by. This could be true, but I have advised against doing some of what he wants to do. I advise this as I believe an owner could legally dispute the BOD requiring a licensed and insured workman for working on ones single, standalone home. On the other if a shared wall situation, I would require all workmen are licensed and insured. I this as a difference between shared wall structures and standalone homes.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2681


05/09/2020 1:29 PM  
JohnC,

Agree.

I was just trying to get Marc to understand how far outside the actual regulatory structure for HOAs he probably is ...
MarcC4
(South Carolina)

Posts:27


05/09/2020 4:46 PM  
Stand alone homes, but some ARC applications have people attaching a privacy fence to someone else’s fence. We started requiring written permission to attach.

So some people think it is only ok to require insured vendors if vendor is attaching to someone else’s wall?

What about someone putting in a pool and equipment is going to be going over community property or over other people’s property easements? We should allow an uninsured vendor?
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2681


05/09/2020 5:40 PM  
Marc,

I don’t know if it is the HOA’s role to be involved in fence attachments, either.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9306


05/09/2020 5:40 PM  
Why uninsured if you have good business?

Former HOA President
MarcC4
(South Carolina)

Posts:27


05/09/2020 5:57 PM  
It actually is. A homeowner has to submit an application to the ARC to build a privacy fence. Some people build a fence all themselves. Others have neighbors fences to their left and right snd decide they might as well fence in the third side themselves. They have a choice to add their own corner posts or attach to the right and left neighbors fence. But they have to get permission to attach. And in the application we require written permission from both neighbors to attach. No permission given? We reject the application.

So by extension, having an uninsured vendor attaching to neighbors fences doesn’t sound like good policy.

I can’t wait to put this to a vote. No way 67% of the homeowners are going to vote YES to allow uninsured vendors to do work.

Who wants cheap, crappy uninsured vendors doing work in the neighborhood you have your biggest investment in?
KellyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:1509


05/10/2020 12:33 PM  
Posted By MarcC4 on 05/08/2020 11:48 AM
We feel the ARC Architecture Review Board can require applications for construction to include a copy of the company’s business license and proof of insurance.

Insurance will protect the HOA from anything bad happening as caused by the vendor.

Should an application be denied for not using an insured vendor?

Thoughts?




The application should be denied for not pulling proper permits but that's about it IF this is a single family home w/ privately owned yard.

The homeowner can take other risks but the HOA's value is diminished by poor work conducted outside your town's permitting system. Insist on that, at least.

If HOA property is being accessed, you want the vendor covering worker injuries with their insurance. Your HOA insurance should be for true non-occupational accidents. In some states, a sole proprieter won't be legally required to carry worker's compensation on themselves. There's zero chance the HOA should risk cover worker injury on HOA property when state laws demand that vendor insurance cover worker accidents.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9461


05/10/2020 12:50 PM  
Posted By MarcC4 on 05/09/2020 5:57 PM
It actually is. A homeowner has to submit an application to the ARC to build a privacy fence. Some people build a fence all themselves. Others have neighbors fences to their left and right snd decide they might as well fence in the third side themselves. They have a choice to add their own corner posts or attach to the right and left neighbors fence. But they have to get permission to attach. And in the application we require written permission from both neighbors to attach. No permission given? We reject the application.

So by extension, having an uninsured vendor attaching to neighbors fences doesn’t sound like good policy.

I can’t wait to put this to a vote. No way 67% of the homeowners are going to vote YES to allow uninsured vendors to do work.

Who wants cheap, crappy uninsured vendors doing work in the neighborhood you have your biggest investment in?




What if the fence is being built by a homeowner and his neighbor says fine, attach to mine? I say as long as the neighbor says fine it is good. Or, let the neighbor demand the builder be licensed and insured. I still say, it is not the duty of the HOA to demand such.
MarkW18


Posts:1067


05/10/2020 5:20 PM  
Posted By KellyM3 on 05/10/2020 12:33 PM
Posted By MarcC4 on 05/08/2020 11:48 AM
We feel the ARC Architecture Review Board can require applications for construction to include a copy of the company’s business license and proof of insurance.

Insurance will protect the HOA from anything bad happening as caused by the vendor.

Should an application be denied for not using an insured vendor?

Thoughts?




The application should be denied for not pulling proper permits but that's about it IF this is a single family home w/ privately owned yard.

The homeowner can take other risks but the HOA's value is diminished by poor work conducted outside your town's permitting system. Insist on that, at least.

If HOA property is being accessed, you want the vendor covering worker injuries with their insurance. Your HOA insurance should be for true non-occupational accidents. In some states, a sole proprieter won't be legally required to carry worker's compensation on themselves. There's zero chance the HOA should risk cover worker injury on HOA property when state laws demand that vendor insurance cover worker accidents.



So an application should be denied for something the application never asked for and may or may not be required by local ordinances?
KellyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:1509


05/17/2020 7:26 AM  
If the application doesn't tell the single-family homeowner of the vendor insurance/worker's comp requirement....

If the project doesn't require permits to begin construction (HOA rules are overridden).....

If there's no risk to HOA-owned property where HOA insurance won't reasonably be affected by the workmanship....

I'd wouldn't think the HOA should likely interfere as long as the work meets aesthestic standards and maintains community "harmony."


If the private homeowner's request presents some form of potential insurance issue for the HOA community property, then the approval should absolutely be made conditional on the company having coverages. No matter what, the HOA's ARC should not approve projects that require municipal permitting unless permits are pulled. Period.


Many ARC's are given arbitrary approval permissions.
ND
(PA)

Posts:440


05/18/2020 10:53 AM  
Posted By MarcC4 on 05/09/2020 5:57 PM
It actually is. A homeowner has to submit an application to the ARC to build a privacy fence. Some people build a fence all themselves. Others have neighbors fences to their left and right snd decide they might as well fence in the third side themselves. They have a choice to add their own corner posts or attach to the right and left neighbors fence. But they have to get permission to attach. And in the application we require written permission from both neighbors to attach. No permission given? We reject the application.

So by extension, having an uninsured vendor attaching to neighbors fences doesn’t sound like good policy.

I can’t wait to put this to a vote. No way 67% of the homeowners are going to vote YES to allow uninsured vendors to do work.

Who wants cheap, crappy uninsured vendors doing work in the neighborhood you have your biggest investment in?




Unfortunately, the cost of the project and whether the vendor has a license and insurance do not guarantee quality workmanship.

Wile I agree that you should not vote to allow uninsured contractors. I disagree with mandating use of only licensed and insured contractors. It should be recommended but cannot be mandated on an owner's personal property (in the case of a stand-alone, SFH).

It should be clear already, and your process can certainly repeat it for redundancy, but any issues caused by an individual homeowner's use of an uninsured and/or unlicensed contractor for work within the confines of their own property would fall solely on that homeowner. A homeowner's signature on your application/form would further acknowledge this situation and that they are accepting the associated responsibility.

I'm a big do-it-yourselfer . . . neither licensed nor insured to do many of the projects I tackle. I'm comfortable with any risks I take to do the work I do because I mitigate those risks and follow proper procedures, like obtaining permits, getting inspections, and calling the local utility location service before digging. More importantly, there are many times I've felt that my own work is better quality, longer-lasting, and significantly cheaper than the same work done by licensed/insured contractors. Your process would not allow folks like myself to do the work we are able to do and allowed to do within our own homes and properties. You'd have significant difficulty with me in regard to the inappropriate overreach of your process.

Finally, you are also mixing a few different things that kind of deserve their own discussion. In my opinion, it should be obvious that you can't tie into a neighbor's fence without asking them and receiving permission . . . after all, their fence post should be entirely on their property and belongs to them. Also depending on your location, your municipality may have specific setback requirements in regard to fencing. Make sure you are complying with those.

And if someone's fence extends outside of their property, it may not be the licensed/insured contractor's fault (so mandating their use didn't solve this issue) . . . perhaps the owner's design accidentally or intentionally made it that way and the Arch Review Committee or review/approval process didn't pick up on it and approved it . . . who takes the blame at that point?
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9461


05/18/2020 11:53 AM  
Posted By ND on 05/18/2020 10:53 AM
Posted By MarcC4 on 05/09/2020 5:57 PM
It actually is. A homeowner has to submit an application to the ARC to build a privacy fence. Some people build a fence all themselves. Others have neighbors fences to their left and right snd decide they might as well fence in the third side themselves. They have a choice to add their own corner posts or attach to the right and left neighbors fence. But they have to get permission to attach. And in the application we require written permission from both neighbors to attach. No permission given? We reject the application.

So by extension, having an uninsured vendor attaching to neighbors fences doesn’t sound like good policy.

I can’t wait to put this to a vote. No way 67% of the homeowners are going to vote YES to allow uninsured vendors to do work.

Who wants cheap, crappy uninsured vendors doing work in the neighborhood you have your biggest investment in?




Unfortunately, the cost of the project and whether the vendor has a license and insurance do not guarantee quality workmanship.

Wile I agree that you should not vote to allow uninsured contractors. I disagree with mandating use of only licensed and insured contractors. It should be recommended but cannot be mandated on an owner's personal property (in the case of a stand-alone, SFH).

It should be clear already, and your process can certainly repeat it for redundancy, but any issues caused by an individual homeowner's use of an uninsured and/or unlicensed contractor for work within the confines of their own property would fall solely on that homeowner. A homeowner's signature on your application/form would further acknowledge this situation and that they are accepting the associated responsibility.

I'm a big do-it-yourselfer . . . neither licensed nor insured to do many of the projects I tackle. I'm comfortable with any risks I take to do the work I do because I mitigate those risks and follow proper procedures, like obtaining permits, getting inspections, and calling the local utility location service before digging. More importantly, there are many times I've felt that my own work is better quality, longer-lasting, and significantly cheaper than the same work done by licensed/insured contractors. Your process would not allow folks like myself to do the work we are able to do and allowed to do within our own homes and properties. You'd have significant difficulty with me in regard to the inappropriate overreach of your process.

Finally, you are also mixing a few different things that kind of deserve their own discussion. In my opinion, it should be obvious that you can't tie into a neighbor's fence without asking them and receiving permission . . . after all, their fence post should be entirely on their property and belongs to them. Also depending on your location, your municipality may have specific setback requirements in regard to fencing. Make sure you are complying with those.

And if someone's fence extends outside of their property, it may not be the licensed/insured contractor's fault (so mandating their use didn't solve this issue) . . . perhaps the owner's design accidentally or intentionally made it that way and the Arch Review Committee or review/approval process didn't pick up on it and approved it . . . who takes the blame at that point?




Well said.
LanceG1
(Georgia)

Posts:85


05/20/2020 9:55 PM  
I had to set our president straight recently on something similar. We had an owner who wanted to remove a tree. The president wanted to require a consultation with and arborist so that the owner is in compliance with local ordinances before approving. Our PM was in that conversation and said that this is outside the scope of the HOA. The president, who is currently a real estate agent and a former apartment property manager (and thinks they know everything about HOA issues) stated that they disagreed because they have needed to do this for other sales.

I successfully argued against that as a board member. With our association this issue has come up on multiple boards where we had various lawyers serving as board members. When this issue came up on those boards, it was determined that the HOA's job is not to enforce state and county ordinances, only to be in compliance with them. IE: If the HOA is cutting down a tree on common property it would need to comply with that ordinance. These past board members while serving, who were also attorneys, did consults with our attorneys to confirm the scope limitation. We may have some covenants etc. that happen to also be ordinances, but it is outside of the scope and resources of the association to try to keep up with and enforce state and local ordinances.

With your insurance requirement, that seems like over-reach. If you homeowner damages HOA property you already should have legal recourse without insurance. If someone damages someone else's property, that is a matter between the two homeowners. Your only responsibility should be to deal with HOA CCR issues.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2681


05/21/2020 4:49 AM  
Lance,

Well and reasonably argued.

And, nicely summarized!
AnnT5
(Texas)

Posts:2


05/27/2020 3:39 PM  
Our ARC Rules, which are documented and filed with the county, require all homeowners to comply with all
city of XXXX and state (Texas) ordinances, laws, rules and regulations.

The city requires any business to have a city license and certain occupations must be licensed.
The cheapest and worst handymen never have a license.

This also helps when people want to do something major, such as a standby generator, that
could be a problem for neighbors. Getting city approvals often proves to be more effort
than people want to spend.
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