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Subject: Renters and rules
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Author Messages
NicoleO5
(California)

Posts:42


03/22/2020 5:29 PM  
Hello and I hope you are all keeping safe and well admist the current health issues out there.

We have a newer renter who moved in a few months ago. It has been nonstop of rule issues since they moved in.
There are a lot of infractions that have already been noted and notices sent to the owner. Our rules and CCR’s are not more crazy than any other HOA out there. However if seems like this unit and it’s ongoing and ever going in and out of tenents always have issues with common sense rules.

Pizza boxes outside the front door for days
Leather coaches not he balcony.
Mulitiple noise issues
Dumping of furntiture outside the building and one that concerned us...
the tenants were seen using a front entry door code that would buzz their guests in without calling - one that only our onsite vendors use.

The owner is defensive. We sent notices, the issues are still there for example the leather ghetto couch on the balcony. Parties at 2-4 am mid week and weekendly Collaboratively there are over 10 police calls to this unit since January. We have a hearing set for next week which the owner doesnt plan on attending. The tenants appear to be having under age people over and lots of guest bringing beer over. Now that in itself is not a rule issue but the minors are. Also, most people who are in their 20s wouldn’t be caught dead drinking at home... so we aer highly supicious of underage shenanigans.

My question and we will consult our attourney for this. We never have had issues where a notice and a hearing ( and a pending fine for each infraction per our rules and documents) didn’t stop the problem. The owner claims the HOA is harassing her tenants and she is consulting her own attorney. ( we have hears this one before several times)

If the issues are not addressed and resolved do we keep fining for each occurance month after month ? At this rate the HOA is seeking legal action to evict which is also in our CCRS. Please advise regarding the ongoing rule dismissal.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7036


03/22/2020 6:05 PM  
Let us know what your a attorney says. Sound like your HOA is a condo building? I can't remember. I'm not sure what your question is, Nicole.

Anyway, we're a condo tower and violations of the noises & party type have always ceased if we keep calling them or their owners. to hearings and fining them. Make sure you follow your documents & state statutes about due process to the letter so the Owner's attorney has no case against the HOA. We did have one case where we fined the owners 4 times--and every time the fine doubled per our rules, who the fine reached $1,600. The Tenants finally moved.

If they're still dumping furniture in the common areas, then have the furniture removed and charge the owners for that work ASSUMING you have a rule or convent about such disposal.

The under age issue isn't an HOA concern unless you want to try to prove they're underage, call the police, etc. You really have a rule against underage drinking? They have enough violations without bothering with the one it seems.

Is this an elevator building? Anyhoo, change the entry code. During the current crisis, the board COULD make an "emergency" rule limiting entry into your enclosed common areas limited to just, say two or four guests.

See the davis-stirling.com Newsletter on other ideas, and their Main Inddez for an "emergency rule."
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3664


03/22/2020 6:50 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/22/2020 6:05 PM
We did have one case where we fined the owners 4 times--and every time the fine doubled per our rules, who the fine reached $1,600. The Tenants finally moved.

I think Kerry's way of doing it is a good approach. Many landlords will look at fines as a "cost of doing business". The idea is to fine until they get sick of paying the fines - doubling the fines for repeat violations is a good way to do that - at which point they will take some sort of action against their tenants.
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:893


03/23/2020 10:11 AM  
Kerry has some great suggestions.. Follow the advice of your attorney. If you can keep fining the owner for each occurring finable offense, keep calling the owner to a compliance hearing for each offense. You wight want to call code enforcement because of the couch and pizza boxes.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9127


03/23/2020 10:25 AM  
Here is the issue. You all need to have a fining schedule to enforce the fines. Do you have one that defines that furniture left out is a violation? If so, how much is the fine?

The HOA typically can not evict a tenant. They have to hold the owner's feet to the ground. Keep in mind that often owner's do not write into their lease agreements the tenant is to follow the rules of the HOA. Which means that owner can NOT evict them for HOA violations. So their hands may be tied for this. It's why recommend that HOA's strongly suggest this practice.

Many of your issues involve police issues and not owner. The police can only enforce laws that they SEE being violated. Which they can't tell if there are under-age drinkers on the premises if they are INSIDE the building. Understand there are limits.

The owner should care about their property. Fines are just punitive charges to put in place to make the owner make the tenant's tow the line. If not, then they can evict.

So not sure what questions your asking your attorney or the type of attorney your using. Just be aware to ask the right questions and take the right legal actions. It may not be issuing fines until you have them defined.

Former HOA President
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7036


03/23/2020 11:00 AM  
We're rewriting ur CC&Rs, Nicole. Can you give me the exact wording of your HOA's ability to evict renters? WE have a bout 25% renters, and they seems OK. But during the Great Recession, the % shot up to 43% as some owners needed renters to pay their mortgage & HOA fees, and had to move out. Desperate, they took tents they usually would have rejected.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7036


03/23/2020 11:02 AM  
We're rewriting our CC&Rs, Nicole. Can you give me the exact wording of your HOA's ability to evict renters? WE have about 25% renters, and they seems OK. But during the Great Recession, the % shot up to 43% as some owners needed renters to pay their mortgage & HOA fees, and had to move out. Desperate, they took tenants they usually would have rejected.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9299


03/23/2020 12:04 PM  
Our Covenants say one cannot rent their unit/home during the first year of their ownership. This usually stops speculators.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9299


03/23/2020 12:06 PM  
Potential renters should sign a document that they have read, understand, and will abide by the Covenants, Bylaws, and Rules and Regulations and that failure to abide by such, could result in eviction by the association.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7036


03/23/2020 12:58 PM  
But, JohnC, what the tenant signs isn't any good unless the governing documents, our HOA attorney says it needs to be our CC&Rs, state the Association has that right.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7036


03/23/2020 12:58 PM  
But, JohnC, what the tenant signs isn't any good unless the governing documents, our HOA attorney says it needs to be our CC&Rs, state the Association has that right.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9127


03/23/2020 3:20 PM  
HOA has no right to evict. They don't own the property. The Tenant should sign they will follow the rules in their lease agreement. This then gives the power to the owner to evict for any violations.

Former HOA President
NicoleO5
(California)

Posts:42


03/29/2020 9:27 AM  
You are right.. however i fhtink with legal pressure from the HOA”s attourney and continual fining that is occuring its incentive to evict.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9127


03/29/2020 10:17 AM  
They can only put the pressure on the owner to evict NOT the tenant. Tenant doesn't get fined. However, the owner's hands are tied in evicting the tenant if it's NOT in their lease the tenant abides by the HOA rules. If that isn't in there, then the owner can't evict them per terms of their lease. The owner can continue to be fined but not able to evict. No grounds for eviction if not violating the terms of the lease.

Plus in some states you can basically stop paying your rent up to a year and not be evicted. there is a thing called "Tenant's rights". Which override what an owner can and can not do with a tenant.

Former HOA President
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