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Subject: washer/drier at night
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KristelL
(California)

Posts:8


03/15/2020 9:11 AM  
my neighbor,who is also part of the board, has a washer/drier in his unit and he's using it late at night (sometime until 1am).
the noise is pretty loud and often wakes me up and/or prevent me from falling asleep
I asked him to refrain from using it past 10 pm, but he assures me that he doesn't have a washer in his unit because it's forbidden by the HOA. he said that the noise is due to old plumbing in the building (he really thinks I'm stupid...)
I'm pretty sure he has a washer/drier and I'm wondering what I should do?

SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:3063


03/15/2020 9:20 AM  
You could attend the next board meeting and call him out in front of everyone, but this is really a disagreement between two neighbors, so I wouldn't expect the HOA to get involved. Unless other people are complaining, so you could ask around and perhaps have them attend the meeting with you to express themselves.

Otherwise, you may just have to wear earplugs or get one of those sound machines that generate "white noise" to drown out the racket and help you get to sleep faster.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9323


03/15/2020 9:21 AM  
If washers and dryers are not allowed, report him to the BOD.
KristelL
(California)

Posts:8


03/15/2020 9:42 AM  
yep, but he's part of the board...
KristelL
(California)

Posts:8


03/15/2020 9:44 AM  
and he said he doesn't have one
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9136


03/15/2020 10:22 AM  
Okay he doesn't have one. If he did, where is he ventilating it outside? That has to be done with a dryer. So if you see signs of maybe going to the attic, call the fire marshall. Ask for a fire code inspection...

Former HOA President
AugustinD


Posts:2948


03/15/2020 10:32 AM  
KristelL, if you can answer my questions below and from any other person here, I would so appreciate it.

-- Does your condo have a period that is designated "quiet hours" in the condo's rules and regulations or maybe Declaration?

-- Does your condo's Declaration have a section that prohibits "nuisances"? What exactly does it say?
AugustinD


Posts:2948


03/15/2020 10:45 AM  
Posted By SheliaH on 03/15/2020 9:20 AM
You could attend the next board meeting and call him out in front of everyone,
I think the whole point of "process" is to keep things at the lowest level possible and gradually elevate as needed. Why? To minimize conflict and people's feathers getting ruffled un-necessarily. After humiliating someone, revenge is much more likely to happen. Given where the OP is at this point, I would not recommend calling this person out. Instead, follow the procedure for complaints.
Posted By SheliaH on 03/15/2020 9:20 AM
but this is really a disagreement between two neighbors, so I wouldn't expect the HOA to get involved.
If the condo's rules prohibit washing machines, and the guy has a washer in his unit, this could lead to insurance problems in the future.

I do expect the HOA to get involved, especially if there is a nuisance clause in the Declaration along with a prohibition on washing machines in units. The HOA may not want to, but one step at a time.
KristelL
(California)

Posts:8


03/15/2020 10:49 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/15/2020 10:22 AM
Okay he doesn't have one. If he did, where is he ventilating it outside? That has to be done with a dryer. So if you see signs of maybe going to the attic, call the fire marshall. Ask for a fire code inspection...





thanks for suggesting that, I'll check that out
KristelL
(California)

Posts:8


03/15/2020 10:56 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 03/15/2020 10:32 AM
KristelL, if you can answer my questions below and from any other person here, I would so appreciate it.

-- Does your condo have a period that is designated "quiet hours" in the condo's rules and regulations or maybe Declaration?

Here are the rules:
NOISE: Building quiet hours are from 10pm-10am. Please be considerate of your neighbors.
While every effort should be made to keep your noise to a minimum at all hours, it is particularly
important during quiet hours. Please be aware of your TV and stereo volume, loud talking (inside
of your unit, on your balcony, and in the courtyard), partying, dog barking, car alarms, door
slamming, and construction/home improvement noise. Excessive noise during any time of any
given day is prohibited.
LAUNDRY: Laundry must NOT begin until 10am and must be COMPLETED no later than
10pm. Do not store detergent, laundry baskets, etc. in the laundry room. Use of appliances
(washer and dryers) before 10am and after 10pm is prohibited.
The use or installation of laundry machines/dryers of any kind is NOT permitted inside your unit.

-- Does your condo's Declaration have a section that prohibits "nuisances"? What exactly does it say?



Can't find anything about that
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2338


03/15/2020 10:57 AM  
Probably has been mentioned.

Have you carefully recorded it ... on/off times, cycle times, floor or wall vibration ...easy tests?

Washers are 120V and dryers 240V ... 240V would need to be permitted? Check with county for permitting proof from an electrician?

Check with local water/sewage agency to see if the address has washing machine ... let them know you keep hearing one.
KristelL
(California)

Posts:8


03/15/2020 10:59 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 03/15/2020 10:45 AM
Posted By SheliaH on 03/15/2020 9:20 AM
You could attend the next board meeting and call him out in front of everyone,
I think the whole point of "process" is to keep things at the lowest level possible and gradually elevate as needed. Why? To minimize conflict and people's feathers getting ruffled un-necessarily. After humiliating someone, revenge is much more likely to happen. Given where the OP is at this point, I would not recommend calling this person out. Instead, follow the procedure for complaints.
Posted By SheliaH on 03/15/2020 9:20 AM
but this is really a disagreement between two neighbors, so I wouldn't expect the HOA to get involved.
If the condo's rules prohibit washing machines, and the guy has a washer in his unit, this could lead to insurance problems in the future.

I do expect the HOA to get involved, especially if there is a nuisance clause in the Declaration along with a prohibition on washing machines in units. The HOA may not want to, but one step at a time.





yes, I don't want that to escalate. that's why I contacted him first before the management property

here is the rules/regulations of our building
1. NOISE: Building quiet hours are from 10pm-10am. Please be considerate of your neighbors.
While every effort should be made to keep your noise to a minimum at all hours, it is particularly
important during quiet hours. Please be aware of your TV and stereo volume, loud talking (inside
of your unit, on your balcony, and in the courtyard), partying, dog barking, car alarms, door
slamming, and construction/home improvement noise. Excessive noise during any time of any
given day is prohibited.
Construction and home improvements are limited to the hours of 10am to 5pm (Monday through
Saturday). NO construction is allowed on Sundays. Please note: construction hours INCLUDE
preparation and clean-up time.
2. LAUNDRY: Laundry must NOT begin until 10am and must be COMPLETED no later than
10pm. Do not store detergent, laundry baskets, etc. in the laundry room. Use of appliances
(washer and dryers) before 10am and after 10pm is prohibited.
The use or installation of laundry machines/dryers of any kind is NOT permitted inside your unit.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:837


03/15/2020 12:11 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/15/2020 10:22 AM
Okay he doesn't have one. If he did, where is he ventilating it outside? That has to be done with a dryer. So if you see signs of maybe going to the attic, call the fire marshall. Ask for a fire code inspection...




There are vent-free dryers. They're pricey, though.
AugustinD


Posts:2948


03/15/2020 12:27 PM  
KristelL, I would document the noise exactly as GeorgeS21 describes. If you can record it, even better. In parallel, I would ask the manager for the form that an owner should use to file a complaint of a rules violation. I think you may as well tell the manager why: "The owner next to me has had significant plumbing-like noise coming from his unit during the "quiet hours" listed in Rule ______. The noise sounds like a washing machine to me. I have spoken to the owner, but the noise continues. I would like to submit a formal complaint."

There are 120 volt, apartment size dryers available. Checking for 240 volts may not be worthwhile.

In California, case law has decreed that boards must enforce the governing documents (Declaration et cetera).
JohnT38
(South Carolina)

Posts:239


03/15/2020 12:29 PM  
Posted By KristelL on 03/15/2020 10:59 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 03/15/2020 10:45 AM
Posted By SheliaH on 03/15/2020 9:20 AM
You could attend the next board meeting and call him out in front of everyone,
I think the whole point of "process" is to keep things at the lowest level possible and gradually elevate as needed. Why? To minimize conflict and people's feathers getting ruffled un-necessarily. After humiliating someone, revenge is much more likely to happen. Given where the OP is at this point, I would not recommend calling this person out. Instead, follow the procedure for complaints.
Posted By SheliaH on 03/15/2020 9:20 AM
but this is really a disagreement between two neighbors, so I wouldn't expect the HOA to get involved.
If the condo's rules prohibit washing machines, and the guy has a washer in his unit, this could lead to insurance problems in the future.

I do expect the HOA to get involved, especially if there is a nuisance clause in the Declaration along with a prohibition on washing machines in units. The HOA may not want to, but one step at a time.





yes, I don't want that to escalate. that's why I contacted him first before the management property

here is the rules/regulations of our building
1. NOISE: Building quiet hours are from 10pm-10am. Please be considerate of your neighbors.
While every effort should be made to keep your noise to a minimum at all hours, it is particularly
important during quiet hours. Please be aware of your TV and stereo volume, loud talking (inside
of your unit, on your balcony, and in the courtyard), partying, dog barking, car alarms, door
slamming, and construction/home improvement noise. Excessive noise during any time of any
given day is prohibited.
Construction and home improvements are limited to the hours of 10am to 5pm (Monday through
Saturday). NO construction is allowed on Sundays. Please note: construction hours INCLUDE
preparation and clean-up time.
2. LAUNDRY: Laundry must NOT begin until 10am and must be COMPLETED no later than
10pm. Do not store detergent, laundry baskets, etc. in the laundry room. Use of appliances
(washer and dryers) before 10am and after 10pm is prohibited.
The use or installation of laundry machines/dryers of any kind is NOT permitted inside your unit.




If you want to start out being politically correct contact the Manager and request a work order for unexplained noise issues including after 10PM. Mention that it sounds like a dryer but you have been assured by your neighbor that he doesn't have one and he believes it's the pipes. Insist that your ability to quiet enjoyment is being jeopardized. If you can force them to investigate, the neighbor's going to have to figure out how to hide a washer and dryer.
AugustinD


Posts:2948


03/15/2020 12:43 PM  
Posted By JohnT38 on 03/15/2020 12:29 PM
contact the Manager and request a work order for unexplained noise issues including after 10PM. Mention that it sounds like a dryer but you have been assured by your neighbor that he doesn't have one and he believes it's the pipes. Insist that your ability to quiet enjoyment is being jeopardized. If you can force them to investigate, the neighbor's going to have to figure out how to hide a washer and dryer.
I love it.

To me, this is not about being politically correct. JohnT38's proposed solution above sounds excellent. It's a "just the facts" approach. It follows her (likely rule-breaking) neighbor's advice. It alerts the HOA to a possible insurance issue. It's great.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9323


03/15/2020 12:48 PM  
There are washer and dryers where the washer hooks up to a kitchen faucet and drains into the kitchen sink. Also dryers that run on 120v and are ventless or vent out a cracked window. Some are on wheels to store and move around. They can easily be snuck in and used when banned sch as in a condo.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7052


03/15/2020 12:54 PM  
But they aren't after all banned in the guy's unit. I agree that if he's violating the rules or covenants, the after hours noise can be stopped. I just don't know if Kristall can prove he has these items.

If she hears the noise every night, it very well could be something else as, unless a big family, most folk don't run theirs every day.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9323


03/15/2020 1:04 PM  
Reread:

1. NOISE: Building quiet hours are from 10pm-10am. Please be considerate of your neighbors.
While every effort should be made to keep your noise to a minimum at all hours, it is particularly
important during quiet hours. Please be aware of your TV and stereo volume, loud talking (inside
of your unit, on your balcony, and in the courtyard), partying, dog barking, car alarms, door
slamming, and construction/home improvement noise. Excessive noise during any time of any
given day is prohibited.
Construction and home improvements are limited to the hours of 10am to 5pm (Monday through
Saturday). NO construction is allowed on Sundays. Please note: construction hours INCLUDE
preparation and clean-up time.
2. LAUNDRY: Laundry must NOT begin until 10am and must be COMPLETED no later than
10pm. Do not store detergent, laundry baskets, etc. in the laundry room. Use of appliances
(washer and dryers) before 10am and after 10pm is prohibited.
The use or installation of laundry machines/dryers of any kind is NOT permitted inside your unit.
KristelL
(California)

Posts:8


03/15/2020 1:10 PM  
Posted By JohnT38 on 03/15/2020 12:29 PM
Posted By KristelL on 03/15/2020 10:59 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 03/15/2020 10:45 AM
Posted By SheliaH on 03/15/2020 9:20 AM
You could attend the next board meeting and call him out in front of everyone,
I think the whole point of "process" is to keep things at the lowest level possible and gradually elevate as needed. Why? To minimize conflict and people's feathers getting ruffled un-necessarily. After humiliating someone, revenge is much more likely to happen. Given where the OP is at this point, I would not recommend calling this person out. Instead, follow the procedure for complaints.
Posted By SheliaH on 03/15/2020 9:20 AM
but this is really a disagreement between two neighbors, so I wouldn't expect the HOA to get involved.
If the condo's rules prohibit washing machines, and the guy has a washer in his unit, this could lead to insurance problems in the future.

I do expect the HOA to get involved, especially if there is a nuisance clause in the Declaration along with a prohibition on washing machines in units. The HOA may not want to, but one step at a time.





yes, I don't want that to escalate. that's why I contacted him first before the management property

here is the rules/regulations of our building
1. NOISE: Building quiet hours are from 10pm-10am. Please be considerate of your neighbors.
While every effort should be made to keep your noise to a minimum at all hours, it is particularly
important during quiet hours. Please be aware of your TV and stereo volume, loud talking (inside
of your unit, on your balcony, and in the courtyard), partying, dog barking, car alarms, door
slamming, and construction/home improvement noise. Excessive noise during any time of any
given day is prohibited.
Construction and home improvements are limited to the hours of 10am to 5pm (Monday through
Saturday). NO construction is allowed on Sundays. Please note: construction hours INCLUDE
preparation and clean-up time.
2. LAUNDRY: Laundry must NOT begin until 10am and must be COMPLETED no later than
10pm. Do not store detergent, laundry baskets, etc. in the laundry room. Use of appliances
(washer and dryers) before 10am and after 10pm is prohibited.
The use or installation of laundry machines/dryers of any kind is NOT permitted inside your unit.




If you want to start out being politically correct contact the Manager and request a work order for unexplained noise issues including after 10PM. Mention that it sounds like a dryer but you have been assured by your neighbor that he doesn't have one and he believes it's the pipes. Insist that your ability to quiet enjoyment is being jeopardized. If you can force them to investigate, the neighbor's going to have to figure out how to hide a washer and dryer.




Love this idea
Thanks
KristelL
(California)

Posts:8


03/15/2020 1:11 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/15/2020 12:54 PM
But they aren't after all banned in the guy's unit. I agree that if he's violating the rules or covenants, the after hours noise can be stopped. I just don't know if Kristall can prove he has these items.

If she hears the noise every night, it very well could be something else as, unless a big family, most folk don't run theirs every day.




It's not every night, but couple times a week
That's why I doubt it's a plumbing issue as he suggested
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9136


03/15/2020 2:06 PM  
Could it be a dishwasher? Maybe runs it before goes to bed? That could explain the noise. Can you follow the path of the pipes in the wall? Does it go above your kitchen or bathroom sinks? The pipes in the wall should match in each unit. So that should let you know where it may be tied into. You can hook up a washer to a kitchen sink. We had one when I was a kid. It had a spin dryer too next to it.

Former HOA President
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:7052


03/15/2020 2:32 PM  
Ooooops, sorry for misreading: such appliances clearly are NOT permitted.

Yeah, Kristen, couple times a week makes it sound like It's NOT a common area plumbing issue.

Say, does you HOA have a building engineer? If so, you could contact your PM to ask the engineer to ry to find the source of the noise. We've had to pay ours overtime to come in the middle of the night to try to source bad plumbing noise in our condo building, but it was worth it.

Ah, in other words, JohnT's good advice!
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